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to get a feel for the game you were trying to run?

Would you put together a "highlights reel" to do so?  Or would just you, as the GM, do it and keep that in your head and try to impress on the players that the game world was like that?

I ask because tonight I told my D&D group that I was planning, in a month, to kick off a Twilight:2000 campaign.  I started thinking about the imagery I want the game to have, and three pieces of media sprang to mind:

Full Metal Jacket, specifically the Hue City scenes.  Here we have a group of soldiers in "modern" combat, cut off from anything, in an utterly destroyed urban environment.  They're lost, they're without clear leadership and they're being whittled down by an unseen enemy that is seemingly on every side.

Generation:Kill.  While the soldiers of G:K aren't specifically in a "post apocalypse" situation (and neither are the Marines of Hotel 2-5 company in the aforementioned film), they're extended deep into enemy territory and are short on supplies for a good portion of the series (their deuce-and-a-half containing large amounts of their ammo and food (and their unit colors!) is attacked at night by Army recon units who mistake it for an Iraqi vehicle, and they have to abandon it), and mostly without much in the way of support while they're seeking out the enemy.  They're also casting about in open-topped Humvees, cruising through heavily damaged cities...

Strangely enough, saving private ryan has that same feel to it: despite the lack of modernity, (or perhaps because of it) it fits the "Good luck, you're on your own" feel very well, plus it deals with the breakdown of unit cohesion, the sense that, in spite of the larger war, their war is one of simple survival.

Should I suggest prospective players watch these?  I'm not incorporating plot elements, really, at all, I just want them to have a sense of the grim-and-gritty...or is this all my job as a good GM?

I would never ask players to read more than one sheet double sided.   Even that would be a tad much for most groups.

As for films, you may want to find clips on YouTube and create a "view these clips" webpage to convey the tone / feel you are trying to achieve.

I'd keep the clips to a 15 minutes total.  

Even better, do it as A/V presentation at the game table so you have everyone together and their attention focussed and you can bounce between clips (keeping only to the best bits) and whatever other imagery you want to impart to them.

I recommended to a player who hadn't read the Amber books that he do so before playing Amber, but he didn't and I didn't really care.

Seanchai

You can suggest they watch, especially if it's a month away. Odds are, they've seen Saving Private Ryan and Full Metal Jacket, anyways. Both movies have been around and were very popular.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;444320Should I suggest prospective players watch these?  I'm not incorporating plot elements, really, at all, I just want them to have a sense of the grim-and-gritty...or is this all my job as a good GM?

If you can, you should splice together your own trailer of exactly what you want them to watch, and I agree with the 15 minute limit.  You may also want at least parts of the battle scene from near the end of Children of Men.

I have in the past suggested books or movies to players, but have never required it. Usually this happens when I'm running a very specific universe setting, like Stormbringer or my Arabic fantasy campaign. The usual pitch is, 'you don't have to read these books or see these movies to enjoy the game. I won't penalize you for not doing so. However, you will probably get an added layer of enjoyment out of the campaign if you do.'

I've never had a player drop out of a game because he didn't want to read the book or see the movie I suggested. Most of the gamers I've encountered are excited to discover something new.

With my current group, the first session of a campaign is often just character creation and background.

In that context, if I felt that certain movies were particularly important for the feel of the game, I would consider also using that session to watch (some of) those movies, or other similar movies as suggested the group.

I regularly tell my players what my inspirations are. I recommend them for watching if they're good movies. It's all on my players own time for the most part. Some do and some don't.

Recently, for Robotech, I had my players watch the Shadow Chronicles movie to help sort out the type of Space Opera that game is going for. The older stuff hasn't aged well but a few took up watching the original series on Netflix.

We once had an entire Sunday devoted to watching movies that inspired our Exalted sessions. We watched something like 10 movies that day. It was a great time, we made it an in character event (they were invited to a special theatre in Yu Shan) and everyone who attended earned XP. That was a really fun time and it helped the players who had never really seen Wushu and Kung Fu movies get that side of the game. Our Exalted was very more influenced by Master of the Flying Guillotine then Dragonball.

No. I've given up on seeing any real effort even from the best of players. Furthermore, in all honesty, getting me to read a book or a comic is no problem, but getting me to watch a movie is like pulling teeth. Back in the day, my wife actually boght me a dvd player for xmass- just so she could get me to watch The Matrix. I still haven't seen the sequels.

I'd strongly recomend Tough Justice players to have seen at least 1 episode of Garrow's Law to get the gist.

However all my other recomendations are just recomendations.

I made a video like the opening credits of a TV series for my game so that the players could get a feel for the game and the player characters. The PCs are pre-gens.

(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o270/DarranSims/Openingcredits.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfSPrVzio6w)

The last time I ran a pulp game, we watched an episode of Ace Drummond (http://www.archive.org/details/ace_drummond1) before each game -- 20 minutes long, which is a while, but it helped get everyone in the mood for the time period. "Put our nose in the wind, head for the sun!"

In practice, I've found that it is largely an exercise in futility in getting anybody to read or watch something they are not overly interested in.  (This is in general, especially outside of rpg games).

Even in loaning a campaign setting guide or gazetteer to the players, such books will largely remain unread.

Whenever I'm DMing a game, I just assume most players have very little to no interest in reading anything beyond the character creation sections of a core rpg book.

If the players do show some initiative in reading and doing their own research for a particular rpg game, then I would be more willing to accommodate their interests and efforts in the game.

In a few cases, I ended up changing seats with a motivated player, where they DMed the part of the game which they were very interested in and did a lot of research for.

I wouldn't. What might be fun in a game isn't necessarily fun in other media and besides, it's a hobby so it doesn't come with homework.

For example, I'm happy to play fantasy rpgs but I don't really read fantasy fiction and I wouldn't for a game. That wouldn't be fun.

Others mileage can and of course does vary.

To be honest, even if I thought it a good idea I wouldn't bother because hardly anyone I've ever played with would comply. I wouldn't comply, why should I expect others to?

I will recommend comics, books, film and television (or even videogames) that have influenced me, but I'd never require it.

In recent years, I've also found that my players are too busy to do much more than come to the game and be awesome. Its amazing if they can put in extra-effort, but to expect it is vanity on my part.

In general, I try to GM with the old "show, don't tell" maxim in mind. Basically, if I haven't brought an element of the game world to their attention in the process of play, then it isn't important.

I watched the pilot of Deadwood with my group as our Deadlands campaign got under way, and I'm hoping I can get the group through at least two more episodes... It does make me feel like a lazy High School teacher to have an hour of video, though I usually halt the game for almost that long for pizza anyway...

My preference when my campaign shows a strong influence is that either all of my players are in on the reference or none of them are.  Obviously, it's not something I can always control...

My players swing towards the "casual" end of the gamer spectre, so getting them to actually watch a movie, or read a book for the upcoming game is a lost cause.

I'm lucky when they read one-page blurbs.

I usually try to ground them in familiar "Geek Common" terms, e.g. "This Day After Ragnarok campaign is influenced by Hellboy, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Indiana Jones, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, Six-String Samurai and Norse myth."

*looks at Darran's post*

HOLY SHIT. Embedded YouTube links on the RPG Site now! AWESOME!

I would if I thought the players would actually do it, but in my experience nobody will.

Quote from: The Butcher;444398My players swing towards the "casual" end of  the gamer spectre, so getting them to actually watch a movie, or read a  book for the upcoming game is a lost cause.

I'm lucky when they read one-page blurbs.(...)

Same here. I try to refer to things they're already familiar with or show them some pics or youtube videos to get the general idea across.

Quote from: Aos;444364(...)Back in the day, my wife actually boght me a dvd player for xmass- just so she could get me to watch The Matrix. I still haven't seen the sequels.

Don't bother. The sequels were more of the same overrated, pretentious, boring and pointless bullshit.

Quote from: Aos;444364Back in the day, my wife actually boght me a dvd player for xmass- just so she could get me to watch The Matrix. I still haven't seen the sequels.

You haven't missed a thing. The sequels blow.

I should point out that when I say "ask" I mean just that - ask.  Suggest.  I would never make it a barrier to play if a given player hadn't seen it.

I think what someone else pointed out, making a "presentation" of sorts though might be cool.  I think I'll do that with some appropriate music, maybe put it up on YT.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;444418I should point out that when I say "ask" I mean just that - ask.  Suggest.  I would never make it a barrier to play if a given player hadn't seen it.

Well sure, why wouldn't I suggest some reading/viewing that might be thematically relevant to the game? It's like watching "The Gamers" with your group, or having a session watching Excalibur before playing Pendragon, that kind of thing. I have nothing against that! Might be cool, especially if the watching's done together!

Quote from: Esgaldil;444390I watched the pilot of Deadwood with my group as our Deadlands campaign got under way, and I'm hoping I can get the group through at least two more episodes... It does make me feel like a lazy High School teacher to have an hour of video, though I usually halt the game for almost that long for pizza anyway...

My preference when my campaign shows a strong influence is that either all of my players are in on the reference or none of them are.  Obviously, it's not something I can always control...

I did something similar for my "Dragons of the Yellow Sea" campaign.  Prior to the campaign starting, I hosted a movie night where we all watched the movie "Blood Rain" (set in 19th century Korea).  

I think the key is to pitch it as a movie night that we do together for fun, with snacks and drinks and so forth.  Pitching it as a required chore can make anything a drag.

Quote from: jhkim;444425Pitching it as a required chore can make anything a drag.

This seems to be the case in general.

It feels like one is back in "school".

Quote from: Benoist;444423Well sure, why wouldn't I suggest some reading/viewing that might be thematically relevant to the game? It's like watching "The Gamers" with your group, or having a session watching Excalibur before playing Pendragon, that kind of thing. I have nothing against that! Might be cool, especially if the watching's done together!

You know, I think doing it together is the key -- assigning homework seems a bit silly to me, but doing it as part of the game session is much more palatable.

As I have mentioned previously, I play with old friends online. However, we got together this year for a long weekend of gaming and misdemeanors. Prior to starting up our Icons game we did watch just about every episode of The Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes and some of the Apokalypse focused episodes of the JLA/JLU shows.

I have never (and think I never would) ask people to do any course of reading or watching prior to playing in one of my games.  I've never found it necessary.  A GM should be able to give a sufficiently straightforward gist of a campaign that someone who is not familiar with background literature can play it, otherwise that GM has no business running it.

Now, what I have had is players who have ended up looking at the background sources because of my campaign, on their own initiative.  The majority of the (great deal of) Amber players I've had over the years had NOT read the books prior to playing, but the majority had read the books by the time they'd finished their first Amber campaign.
Only a couple of my players in the Legion campaign were more than passingly familiar with the LSH, but I know at least a couple have taken up reading some or a lot of the old volumes due to that game.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;444583A GM should be able to give a sufficiently straightforward gist of a campaign that someone who is not familiar with background literature can play it, otherwise that GM has no business running it.

Yes, but that doesn't make familiarity irrelevant.  If the game is MERP and one player has read the Silmarillion seven times and another has never heard of Lord of the Rings, nothing the GM does short of spending hours per session on background will fill that gap.  There are ways to make use of that, of course - the well read player could play an elf or a ranger, while the ignorant player could play an ignorant human/hobbit, and the knowledge gap could easily be made to work in the service of the role play.  However, there will always be a gap between playing a familiar setting and an unfamiliar one - not that an unfamiliar setting is unplayable, but it is a different experience.

Sometimes, unfamiliarity is desirable - it can make the GM's work in CoC much more satisfying - but again, I would rather have all the players at about the same level of knowledge in an ideal universe.

Quote from: Aos;444364Back in the day, my wife actually boght me a dvd player for xmass- just so she could get me to watch The Matrix. I still haven't seen the sequels.

Lucky you.

I wouldn't ask players to read or watch anything. I might let them know that an upcoming campaign is modeled after a particular movie or book. That way if they want to watch, read or just look it up on wikipedia they can.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;444418I should point out that when I say "ask" I mean just that - ask.  Suggest.  I would never make it a barrier to play if a given player hadn't seen it.

I think what someone else pointed out, making a "presentation" of sorts though might be cool.  I think I'll do that with some appropriate music, maybe put it up on YT.

If you don't mind blowing through a couple of bucks, you could perhaps grab some screen caps from those movies and print them out at Kinko's for player hand-outs or tape them to whatever you use as a GM screen to reference for 'atmosphere' or something like that.

I made my group sit through Master and Commander before we made characters for the original In Harm's Way playtest. It worked perfectly! It got them into the way people acted in those days in a way nothing else could in a remarkably short time. I repeated this with IHW: Aces In Spades with The Blue Max, and again it worked a treat. For IHW: Aces and Angels, I don't think it was as effective, probably because it was set close enough to our own time that the players already knew what they wanted to do.

-clash

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Quote from: Aos;444640reported

Wait!  I need a studio!

I always tell the people where I get my inspiration, and encourage them to watch / read / listen to whatever, simply because I think is cool. I never require it.

Also, we've made a lot of movie + game sessions in which we would watch a movie related to the game, and then play. The results are usually awesome, like, for example, watching "The 13th Warrior" before playing RQ Vikings. Again, nothing mandatory (people are free to arrive later, so they play the game and miss the movie). Everyone is cool with that.

Usually I'm happier if players don't know the sources where I'm getting my ideas... that way they're surprised and more likely to think I'm brilliant and creative (hah!).
It might be interesting to point them in less pertinent directions... to bust up genre cliche's a bit... such as having them over to watch Barbarella and Macbeth (the Polanski version) if we were going to play a Western RPG.
 
During a long Cthulhu campaign set in the 'Summer of Love' in San Francisco I did occasionally point them to a flavorful music video or movie from the era... more because I was immersed in the stuff and sharing vs. really expecting/hoping they'd watch, but I know some of them did.

Quote from: Esgaldil;444597Yes, but that doesn't make familiarity irrelevant.  If the game is MERP and one player has read the Silmarillion seven times and another has never heard of Lord of the Rings, nothing the GM does short of spending hours per session on background will fill that gap.  There are ways to make use of that, of course - the well read player could play an elf or a ranger, while the ignorant player could play an ignorant human/hobbit, and the knowledge gap could easily be made to work in the service of the role play.  However, there will always be a gap between playing a familiar setting and an unfamiliar one - not that an unfamiliar setting is unplayable, but it is a different experience.

Sometimes, unfamiliarity is desirable - it can make the GM's work in CoC much more satisfying - but again, I would rather have all the players at about the same level of knowledge in an ideal universe.

My feeling is that in most cases, while I obviously never forbid someone from reading source material, its almost preferable that the player receive information about MY version of the setting from me.  Otherwise you end up getting the whole "but in the book its says..." syndrome.  

What I found, amazingly, is that often players who had NO prior experience with the source material ended up correctly embodying the spirit of the source material based only in gaining familiarity with the setting as presented in actual play.  The most blatant example of this was in my Legion campaign, where many of my players who had NOT read any of the LSH comics were actually playing heroes from the comics, and often ended up interpreting them in ways uncannily true to the comic book form.  The player who plays Ultra Boy, for example, had never read a Legion comic in his life, had no prior experience with the character, and played him to perfection in a way completely fitting with the Ultra Boy of the comics.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Imperator;444658I always tell the people where I get my inspiration, and encourage them to watch / read / listen to whatever, simply because I think is cool. I never require it.

Also, we've made a lot of movie + game sessions in which we would watch a movie related to the game, and then play. The results are usually awesome, like, for example, watching "The 13th Warrior" before playing RQ Vikings. Again, nothing mandatory (people are free to arrive later, so they play the game and miss the movie). Everyone is cool with that.

this is my approach as well...:hatsoff:
for my next Viking style game I might suggest/watch "Valhalla Rising" instead/along with "13th Warrior".

Well, any such outing by me wouldn't be one of "Hey here are important plot points - you'll be trapped in a city and have to decide how to save your friends from a sniper.  Also you'll have to locate one guy trapped deep in enemy territory and bring him out."

It's more to set the tone.

I tend to do the opposite. Ask, 'what fantasy books or films do you guys like?' then 'Okay I will make the game feel like that then.'

This has the advantage of both setting the scene and getting a feel for the sort of game they want to play. If they said StarDust then the same would be different than if they said Excalibur. If they said Lord of the Rings then that is different to a Locke Lamora game. If there was no overall popular style, well its unlikely to be honest but  I would try and do a mash up for those players I thought were most hesitant or needed the most support.

And this is stuff you can do on an existing game with almost no effort. You had Conan in mind they decided Excalibur you just reskin it and put everyone in shiny field plate and have the monsters go a bit mystical and less giant snakey. Very simple really . Remember you aren't running that game you are just giving your game a flavour/feel and that is really more about determining the shared palatte you are all going to use. Symbolism and language defining ideas and all that.

I will note that also in the legion campaign, and so far exclusively in that campaign, I've posted a series of blog posts (both the "Campaign Character Profiles" and the "Raoul Duke" articles) where I give away little tid-bits of information that the players don't already know (and may or may not ever find out) in the campaign itself, creating supplementary material that essentially the Players can choose to read or not.  This has turned out to be fairly engaging for several of my players.

RPGPundit

Basically I am with Esgaldil on the MERP matter. For a licensed setting it is so much faster to get in the mood and spirit of the source material, and Clash's Master & Commander example is even better as it shows the everyday chores on board of a ship much better than I could ever explain them.
For a Firefly-type game... not so.

Quote from: jibbajibba;444899I tend to do the opposite. Ask, 'what fantasy books or films do you guys like?' then 'Okay I will make the game feel like that then.'

Ha! And at one point I did the opposite to your opposite. Before the first session of a new campaign (that would last many years) I handed the players a questionnaire listing lots of fantasy novels and movies that I have read. By their claiming familiarity with a title they decided that I would not include anything from that source in the campaign.

Most of the time, I try to spin games toward media I know my players are already familiar with.

Although I did once do a one-off where I was trying to capture the feel of a relatively obscure British horror movie, and got everyone together to watch it first. It was a hit, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

Depending upon the players and the subject matter to be covered in the game, I don't think that asking them to watch / read something is too much to ask.

I just wouldn't expect everyone to do so.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;445288Basically I am with Esgaldil on the MERP matter. For a licensed setting it is so much faster to get in the mood and spirit of the source material, and Clash's Master & Commander example is even better as it shows the everyday chores on board of a ship much better than I could ever explain them.

Yeah - that's exactly why I did it. To get a feel for an unfamiliar setting, not to tell them how to play. I don't do this with settings that should be familiar to them.

-clash