You have to defend your IP even when it's stupid or else when it matters you've cut yourself down at the knees.

I miss OGL, but without it, Hasbro pretty much has to act against anyone who gets a certain degree of exposure.

Quote from: Will;814765You have to defend your IP even when it's stupid or else when it matters you've cut yourself down at the knees.

I miss OGL, but without it, Hasbro pretty much has to act against anyone who gets a certain degree of exposure.

I think you have to fight the battles that count, but then, I'm not running a multimillion dollar enterprise like those poor, sweatshop executives.:-)

Admittedly, the OGL has likely created a great deal of the mentality toward free and open use, even as Hasbro is closing the door on most of it. Id like to see the dollar amount they think he's costing them. I'm wondering if legal costs to move against him outweigh it.

Quote from: Will;814765I miss OGL, but without it, Hasbro pretty much has to act against anyone who gets a certain degree of exposure.

even when the ogl was around, they were pretty quick to shut down certain elements not playing by the rules. they were a little bit easier on fan sites, but I remember them going after publishers (fast forward entertainment, for one) who didn't follow the ogl to the letter.

Quote from: cranebump;814772I think you have to fight the battles that count

It's my understanding that you risk your copyright if you don't act in cases like this, so that makes it (part of) a battle that counts.

QuoteAdmittedly, the OGL has likely created a great deal of the mentality toward free and open use, even as Hasbro is closing the door on most of it. Id like to see the dollar amount they think he's costing them. I'm wondering if legal costs to move against him outweigh it.

It was probably no more than a cease-and-desist letter, drafted by an attorney they're already paying.

It is unfortunate that it makes it hard for anyone to address their market failure in providing character generator apps.

Quote from: cranebump;814762Second, the battery of lawyers intent on "protecting" poor ol' Hasbro hardly needs any help. Was the dude even making $$ off his efforts? Was he competing unfairly?  Was he single-handedly sinking D&D?  I don't even use the guy's stuff, but if he's that badass, maybe wizards should hire him.

If WotC hired this guy for his skill, it would be an admission that their digital efforts suck ass - a fact which the consumers already know. Corporate culture can't have that.

It makes me question on why do we bother with IP at all?  I mean it isn't stopping China and they pretty much break every copyright they can.  Hell they created a Blizzard theme park and I mean the video game company Blizzard.  We can't even touch them, but yet I seen Game Workshop lawyers go after a woman because she made a space marine novel.  Not Warhammer 40K space marines, but just generic space marines in battle armor.

Oh come on children.

We knew WOTC would fuck up somehow after they denied the long running Japanese translation publishers a renewal of their allowances.

SJG tells a guy that he cannot resize some game counters for his own personal use and gets a pat on the back from fans for it. But WOTC sends what was stated as a non-threatening C&D and people are weeping in despair in the streets at the betrayal.

All he has to do is ask them what is needed to be changed to make it ok and chances are high that WOTC will say so. "Tweak this and this and this and yer good to go."

Quote from: Omega;814782All he has to do is ask them what is needed to be changed to make it ok and chances are high that WOTC will say so. "Tweak this and this and this and yer good to go."

Your faith in WotC is not shared by many.

Quote from: Snowman0147;814779It makes me question on why do we bother with IP at all?  I mean it isn't stopping China and they pretty much break every copyright they can.  Hell they created a Blizzard theme park and I mean the video game company Blizzard.  We can't even touch them, but yet I seen Game Workshop lawyers go after a woman because she made a space marine novel.  Not Warhammer 40K space marines, but just generic space marines in battle armor.

Hrmmm? I emailed the attorney-of-record at Amazon that had pulled the book off of Amazon and explained why it wouldn't work to try to apply that particular trademark so broadly. I wasn't the only one who did that by the way, by the next day Amazon had put her book back up for sale and told Games Workshop to take a hike. Also by the next day, the young lady in question also had two top-notch IP attorneys who agreed to work for her, to help her with her IP.

Problem solved. Though it did require a public outcry of injustice, and getting the attention of some American IP attorneys.

Also, her cute kiddie space marine books had absolutely nothing in common with the death dealers that GW calls Space Marines, and they in-turn had absolutely nothing to do with the Space Marines of Space: Above and Beyond, and they had nothing to do with our early Traveller Space Marines, nor from plenty of Sci-Fi Space Marines from plenty of pulp novels from the 50's, 60's and 70's.

Quote from: jeff37923;814784Your faith in WotC is not shared by many.

They have done it before when asked so there is no reason not to ask now. Especially if the C&D was not aggressive or threatening.

When I was getting back my Micronauts work from them. When asked they said just remove any names and imagry directly from the series and was good to go. Moreso with Star Frontiers  and the past allowance granted by TSR staff. When asked WOTC was ok as long as the material was not being sold.

Same for any other company. Even freaking Games Workshop will sometimes answer with whats needed to be done if asked.

I agree though that they are fickle and unpredictable. But ASK anyhow.

A C & D isn't a compulsion in itself; its a warning. A lot of big companies have legal staff that crank that stuff out just as a matter of course where they suspect something might be happening.

Also, just because something is in a letter from a lawyer doesn't mean its actually true or enforceable.

I have a hard time calling this company WotC. WotC is a skin worn by Hasbro now.

Quote from: GameDaddy;814789Hrmmm? I emailed the attorney-of-record at Amazon that had pulled the book off of Amazon and explained why it wouldn't work to try to apply that particular trademark so broadly. I wasn't the only one who did that by the way, by the next day Amazon had put her book back up for sale and told Games Workshop to take a hike. Also by the next day, the young lady in question also had two top-notch IP attorneys who agreed to work for her, to help her with her IP.

Problem solved. Though it did require a public outcry of injustice, and getting the attention of some American IP attorneys.

Also, her cute kiddie space marine books had absolutely nothing in common with the death dealers that GW calls Space Marines, and they in-turn had absolutely nothing to do with the Space Marines of Space: Above and Beyond, and they had nothing to do with our early Traveller Space Marines, nor from plenty of Sci-Fi Space Marines from plenty of pulp novels from the 50's, 60's and 70's.

You said the same thing that I did about her space marine.  Which I stated it isn't the Warhammer 40K space marine.

Secondly it had to take a public outcry to get the IP lawyers to defend her and Amazon to put the book back.  If there was no public outcry she would still be screwed.

Most of all you didn't answer my question.  Why should we bother with IP?  All it does it feed lawyers and piss on people even if they are not thieves.

Quote from: Snowman0147;814803Most of all you didn't answer my question.  Why should we bother with IP?  All it does it feed lawyers and piss on people even if they are not thieves.

IP is extremely useful in allowing you to maintain the quality of your brand, services, and ideas.

With no IP, no one is obligated to pay you for your ideas.

Without IP protection your work is not protected, anyone could copy your idea.

Without IP, anyone could take your idea, screw it up, and then re-sell that as your original idea destroying your reputation even if you have integrity.

Without IP, anyone else with more money, could copy your idea, sell it, flood the market, an put out you out of business by killing the demand for your IP. You would have no say in this matter, because it is not your property.

Without IP, you have no price control over your own product, brand, or service .

With IP, you get to license it, make some money off of that and control how your brand is presented in the marketplace.

Any further questions about this?

Yeah, IP law makes it harder for big money to just go 'ha ha ha, fuck you' and screw over creative talent.

Quote from: Snowman0147;814803Most of all you didn't answer my question.  Why should we bother with IP?  All it does it feed lawyers and piss on people even if they are not thieves.

Property rights are one of the cornerstones of western civilization; without them we disincentivize innovation and creativity and our economy suffers.  How long would D&D or any other brand survive if any mouth breather could pump out horrible D&D branded products?  

I understand that big companies have money and people in suits, which naturally makes them evil and worthy of bile, but the hyperbole is getting pretty thick.  Sending a guy a friendly letter asking him to stop freely distributing stuff from their books isn't pissing on him.  

WOTC/Hasbro publishes D&D 5e.  If you enjoy D&D 5e products you should buy them.  If you don't enjoy them you shouldn't buy them.  That's all there is to it.  If everyone that whines about big bad companies trying to make money spent half that time trying to earn a few bucks themselves the internet would be a far more pleasant place.