Quote from: econobus;815758Take it up with heaven.

I have.

I've taken the lack of response to mean "I don't exist"

Quote from: TristramEvans;815765I have.

I've taken the lack of response to mean "I don't exist"

Or "I don't care". Or "I'll wait". Or "I'll let you figure it out."

Quote from: TristramEvans;815764None of them war criminals. Your knowledge of history is as lacking as your ability to process metaphors on a grade school level.

You are wrong.

Fritzsche was accused but not convicted of war crimes. Schacht was not accused of war crimes but was convicted of other crimes. Krupp was old, senile, and in poor health so the prosecution declined to prosecute him for war crimes as was originally planned. Ley was accused of war crimes but killed himself in prison 3 days after his indictment.

Funk, Neurath, Ribbentrop, Streicher, and Speer were all convicted of war crimes, i.e. they were war criminals.

Now we see that you are not as smart as a 4th grader.

• Hans Fritzsche was sent to Nuremberg, and tried before the International Military Tribunal. He was charged with conspiracy to commit crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity. He was one of only three defendants to be acquitted at Nuremberg (along with Hjalmar Schacht and Franz von Papen).
  
• Walther Funk was tried with other Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg Trials. Accused of conspiracy to commit crimes against peace; planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression; war crimes and crimes against humanity. He was convicted all but the first charge and was sentenced to life imprisonment.
  
• Gustav Krupp plans to prosecute Krupp as a war criminal at the 1945 Nuremberg Trials were dropped because by then he was bedridden and senile. Despite his personal absence from the prisoners' dock, however, Krupp remained technically still under indictment and liable to prosecution in subsequent proceedings.
  
• Robert Ley was indicted under Count One ("The Common Plan or Conspiracy to wage an aggressive war in violation of international law or treaties"), Count Three (War Crimes, including among other things "mistreatment of prisoners of war or civilian populations") and Count Four ("Crimes Against Humanity – murder, extermination, enslavement of civilian populations; persecution on the basis of racial, religions or political grounds"). Ley three days after receiving the indictment, Ley strangled himself in his prison cell.
  
• Baron Von Neurath was accused him of "conspiracy to commit crimes against peace; planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression; war crimes and crimes against humanity". He was found guilty by the Allied powers on all four counts and was sentenced to fifteen years imprisonment.
  
• Joachim von Ribbentrop was convicted him on all four counts: crimes against peace, deliberately planning a war of aggression, war crimes, and crimes against humanity.
  
• Dr. Hjalmar Schacht was put on trial at Nuremberg for "crimes against peace" (planning and waging wars of aggression), but not war crimes or crimes against humanity. The British judges favored acquittal, while the Soviet judges wanted to convict. The British got their way and Schacht was acquitted.
  
• Julius Streicher convicted and executed as Major War Criminals.
  
• Albert Speer was found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
  

Quote from: TristramEvans;815764Hans Fritzsche, Walther Funk, Gustav Krupp, Robert Ley, Baron Von Neurath, Joachim von Ribbentrop, Dr. Hjalmar Schacht, Julius Streicher, Albert Speer

None of them war criminals. Your knowledge of history is as lacking as your ability to process metaphors on a grade school level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_Funk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Krupp_von_Bohlen_und_Halbach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Ley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_von_Neurath
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_von_Ribbentrop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Streicher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer

tl;dr

"Despite poor health, Funk was tried with other Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg Trials." "... leading to his conviction on counts 2, 3 and 4 of the indictment and his sentence of life imprisonment."

"Following the Allied victory, plans to prosecute Gustav Krupp as a war criminal at the 1945 Nuremberg Trials were dropped because by then he was bedridden and senile. Despite his personal absence from the prisoners' dock, however, Krupp remained technically still under indictment and liable to prosecution in subsequent proceedings."

"At the Nuremberg Trials, Ley was indicted ..." "three days after receiving the indictment, Ley strangled himself in his prison cell"

"The tribunal came to the consensus that Neurath, though a willing and active participant in war crimes, held no such prominent position during the height of the Third Reich's tyranny and was therefore only a minor adherent to the atrocities committed. He was found guilty by the Allied powers on all four counts and was sentenced to fifteen years imprisonment."

"Ribbentrop was a defendant at the Nuremberg Trials. The Allies' International Military Tribunal convicted him on all four counts: crimes against peace, deliberately planning a war of aggression, war crimes, and crimes against humanity."

"He (Streicher) was acquitted of crimes against peace, but found guilty of crimes against humanity, and sentenced to death on 1 October 1946."

"Speer was found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity"

Quote from: TristramEvans;815764None of them war criminals. Your knowledge of history is as lacking as your ability to process metaphors on a grade school level.

:jaw-dropping:

Quote from: Bren;815768You are wrong.

No, I'm not. They were tried as war criminals. Look into what the people listed actually did. They were not military leaders, they were architects, finance ministers, governers, ambassadors, etc. Their crime was their association with a political party that committed atrocities and they profited off the racist regime. The majority claimed they werent responsible, for the same reasons you say stockholders arent responsible for the crimes of a company they invested in. Hence analogy.

Should we break out the definition of analogy from a dictionary next, and you can argue that the periods are actually mathematical symbols and the word "is" is a theoretical conscript?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles

Quote from: shlominus;815772http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles

Principles VI and VII pretty much sum up my point nicely

Quote from: TristramEvans;815770No, I'm not. They were tried as war criminals. Look into what the people listed actually did. They were not military leaders, they were architects, finance ministers, governers, ambassadors, etc. Their crime was their association with a political party that committed atrocities and they profited off the racist regime. The majority claimed they werent responsible, for the same reasons you say stockholders arent responsible for the crimes of a company they invested in. Hence analogy.

Should we break out the definition of analogy from a dictionary next, and you can argue that the periods are actually mathematical symbols and the word "is" is a theoretical conscript?

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?!?

They were high government officials and Nazi party leaders instrumental in ordering actions leading to genocide. Now you are claiming that even though they were convicted of war crimes at Nuremberg they weren't really war criminals because you don't like the Nurenberg definition of a war crime.

At this point you are sounding like a ridiculous troll or a deranged neo-Nazi.

i think you might be having an episode.

edit: obviously i mean tristam, not Bren.

Quote from: Bren;815775At this point you are sounding like a ridiculous troll or a deranged neo-Nazi.

Quote from: Bren;815775At this point you are sounding like a ridiculous troll or a deranged neo-Nazi.

So the conversation has gone from:

Me: "shareholders should be responsible for the actions of the companies they profit off of"
Bren: "thats not reasonable because they probably dont know what the companies were doing, and anyways they had no control over it"
Me: "Same story heard at Nuremberg"
Bren: "comparing shareholders to nazis is crazy!  hence I dont comprehend analogies"
Me: "well, here's some more information so you can comprehend the analogy"
Bren: "All wrong! Its insane to compare the situation to that of nazi war criminals!"
Me: "here's some more information so you can comprehend the analogy"
Bren: "you sound like a neo-nazi!"


Of course, this is from the same person who said that creators shouldn't lose copyright at death because then companies will just kill everyone for their copyrights. Oh and there was this wonderfully intelligent exchange:

Bren: "IP laws protect creators"
Me: "historically, more often than not IP laws have screwed over creators in favour of companies. Examples: Siegel& Shuster"
Bren "they're dead, so what does that matter?"

I did stop taking you seriously in this thread a long, long, LONG time ago....

Clearly some kind of episode.

TristramEvans: Lists a group of Nazi officials and leaders and claims they weren’t war criminals.

Bren and Shlominus: Tell TristsramEvans he's wrong about those people not being war criminals and provide links demonstrating that the people listed were in fact and nearly without exception accused of and/or convicted of war crimes because they were war criminals.

TristramEvans: Doubles down saying he’s not wrong about them not being war criminals. Those Nazi leaders weren’t war criminals because those Nazi leaders weren’t in the military.

Bren. WTF does not being in the military have to do with the charge? Those guys gave the orders to execute prisoners, create and run death camps, etc. That’s why they were convicted of war crimes and why the 8 million other Nazi party members (like those shareholders) weren’t accused or convicted war crimes.

TristramEvans: La la la, Strawman, la la la.

Clearly, I'm the one confused about the point of your analogy. :rolleyes:

You are now not as smart as a third grader.

Quote from: BrenBren. WTF does not being in the military have to do with the charge? Those guys gave the orders to execute prisoners, create and run death camps, etc. That's why they were convicted of war crimes and why the 8 million other Nazi party members (like those shareholders) weren't accused or convicted war crimes.

Nope. Seriously, even a first grader can figure out how to read wikipedia.

You could have just followed the link that Schlomonius provided but obviously didnt even read himself.

Again, Principles VI and VII sum it up nicely.

Of course, this is all just you trying as hard as you possibly can to avoid the point.

Does your kindergarten class get a naptime anytime soon so you can take a rest from your tantrum?

Quote from: TristramEvans;815764None of them war criminals. Your knowledge of history is as lacking as your ability to process metaphors on a grade school level.

Quote from: TristramEvans;815780Again, Principles VI and VII sum it up nicely.

Once you've had your milk and cookies please explain how Principles VI and VII support your claim that none of the Nazi's you listed are war criminals. Because those principles don't support that from my reading.

Quote from: shlominus;815776i think you might be having an episode.

edit: obviously i mean tristam, not Bren.

shlominus may be right.....