Changing the text of the corebooks, going after "barbarians", & now declaring any kind of setting with other than 2023 Seattle values as "fascist".
#ttrpg #osr
They have been doing this since day one when Wotc bought out TSR:
Johnathan Tweet: 3e-and-the-feel-of-D&D
https://www.enworld.org/threads/3e-and-the-feel-of-d-d.667269/
Tweet openly talks about excising any references of or to real-world mythology when worldbuilding for official 3e D&D.
Making the game entirely self-referential.
Effectively doing a "Year Zero" of D&D lore...
Select quotes:
Quote"...one part of the process I enjoyed was describing the world of D&D in its own terms, rather than referring to real-world history and mythology. When writing roleplaying games, I enjoy helping the player get immersed in the setting, and I always found these references to the real world to be distractions."
...
"...by the time we were working on 3rd Ed, D&D had had such a big impact on fantasy that we basically used D&D as its own source."
...
"We were fortunate that by 2000 D&D had such a strong legacy that it could stand on its own without reference to Earth history or mythology."
Johnathan Tweet: Diversity-in-D&D-third-edition
https://www.enworld.org/threads/diversity-in-d-d-third-edition.668462/
Tweet openly discusses pushing a "diversity and inclusion" agenda for 3e.
Select quotes:
Quote"One way we diverged from the D&D heritage, however, was by making the game art more inclusive."
...
"Luckily for us, Wizards of the Coast had an established culture of egalitarianism, and we were able to update the characters depicted in the game to better reflect contemporary sensibilities."
...
"By the time I was working on 3E, I had been dealing with the pronoun issue for ten years."
Notice how pissed he gets when the WOTC Marketing team of the time insisted that they throw their biggest sales demographic a bone...
Quote"...the marketing team added Regdar, a male fighter, to the mix of iconic characters. We designers weren't thrilled, and as the one who had drawn up the iconic characters I was a little chapped."
And to his utter horror:
Quote"... Regdar proved popular, and if the marketing team was looking for an attractive character to publicize, they got one."
The Hate of the White male fighter knew no limit with the 3e design team:
Monte Cook: Originally Posted by Monte Cook on his now defunct livejournal blog.
https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16418
Select quotes:
Quote"When I worked at TSR, there was always basically a truism in cover art--the central figure had to be a white male. Most of us actually helping to create the cover art, either by conceiving it or actually creating it, hated that kind of outlook, ..."
...
"...when D&D was bought by WotC and we started working on 3E, we really felt that this was a time when we could break this mold. ..."
...
"It was a thumb to the nose of the old TSR requirement."
...
"At least that was our intention."
...
"...to the credit of a number of people--artists, art directors, designers and editors alike--our disdain for Regdar made its way into a lot of art. If you look closely, Regdar is getting thrashed on most of the early pieces he shows up in. (Look for his ignominious fate on the original DM's Screen, for example.) ..."
WOTC D&D has hated its core sales demographic long before they eagerly bought their first copies of the 3e PHB.
The desire for covers/art without "white men" was a middle finger to the very idea of appealing to their biggest sales demographic that just happened to be white males through no fault of their own.
And they were all down with the white fighter hate...
James Jacobs: ( D&D writer, and current Creative Director for the Pathfinder Adventure Paths.)
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2iha2?Monte-Cook-on-Gender-and-Race-in-DD-Art
Select quote:
Quote"Killing off Captain Whitebread is indeed a time-honored tradition in WotC books. I've written my fair share of art orders for those books, and have made sure to have Regdar get blasted or ruined or murdered a few times myself (such as at the end of Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk). It's a fun little semi-secret D&D tradition!"
I don't know about you, but phrases like "Captain Whitebread", do not exactly come across as terms of endearment!
Wotc's D&D design team has always actively sought to inject their own ideological worldview into the game.
After 23 years none of this should come as a surprise to anyone anymore.
The above should be a reminder that everytime in media you think "hmmmm, there don't seem to be many (or any) white males represented here" it's not a byproduct of some well-meaning inclusivity policy, behind it this is actual hatred and vitriol being expressed verbally or in internal documents at the company concerned.
The more that WotC cleanses itself of adjectives and promotes one race over another by political kommisar the more irrelevant and uncool the game becomes. Kids want to do things that makes them the rebel and the outsider to help cleave themselves from their family identity to get their own identity as they grow up. WotC is dead set on becoming the uncool establishment in writing and thought. Think of how WotC is behaving as reverse Satanic Panic, finding new and unedgy ways to become that 45 year old dad with a gut and trying to get a 12 year old to think they cool by bringing out their yoyo tricks, fondue pots and tab cola.
This is WotC's Neogi. According to WotC, Neogi's are space autists with mental power. Because they can't empathize they are evil? Look at all of the redacted text that WotC had to do to comply with their political kommisars. It reads like the redacted Kennedy Assasination report from the FBI.
(https://i.ibb.co/j45Bg9d/Neogi.jpg)
In reality, Neogi are evil space slavers. They were the main villains or Spelljammer. In 5E Wokester edition, they are Evil Spock. There is no edge, there is nothing cool or edgey about them, they are about as edgey as oatmeal with soy milk.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 09:07:14 PM
In reality, Neogi are evil space slavers. They were the main villains or Spelljammer. In 5E Wokester edition, they are Evil Spock. There is no edge, there is nothing cool or edgey about them, they are about as edgey as oatmeal with soy milk.
I'm... not getting that from the images/descriptions that you posted. In fact, reading through the original version--one of the only
D&D products that I own (
SpellJammer - Adventures in Space)--has a similar description, though with far more florid text. (It could practically have been written by someone from the UK! ;) )
They seem to remain "evil space slavers" focused as they are on property and the premises of "owned" and "not owned". They are both Lawful Evil etc.
Maybe the rub is in the redacted text? I have no idea what that might include. Do you know what it says? Would it be helpful to me to understand the criticism?
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 25, 2023, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 09:07:14 PM
In reality, Neogi are evil space slavers. They were the main villains or Spelljammer. In 5E Wokester edition, they are Evil Spock. There is no edge, there is nothing cool or edgey about them, they are about as edgey as oatmeal with soy milk.
I'm... not getting that from the images/descriptions that you posted. In fact, reading through the original version--one of the only D&D products that I own (SpellJammer - Adventures in Space)--has a similar description, though with far more florid text. (It could practically have been written by someone from the UK! ;) )
They seem to remain "evil space slavers" focused as they are on property and the premises of "owned" and "not owned". They are both Lawful Evil etc.
Maybe the rub is in the redacted text? I have no idea what that might include.
There is nothing in the flavor text that states Neogi are slavers.
This is from the Description of Neogi from Spelljammer Adventures in space page 93 from Lorebook of the Void:
Quote"The neogi are a slaving race with an inborn sense of property: everything is either owned or owner, slave or neogi. Even neogis are slaves to other neogis, but these slave-neogis may have their own slaves and eventually establish themselves as fu ll masters in their own right."
In the screenshot I gave you, no where do they say the Neogi owns anyone. They assimilated Neogi, what joined them to their culture are they equals with full voting rights how can you can you tell from the flavor text, you can't tell, you have no clue. Meanwhile the original text from the boxed set is very explicit that Neogi are slavers. In the original unredacted text the neogi are slavers. Go to Volo's and clear they are slavers.
For example:
QuoteThey invaded the world long ago from a remote location on the Material Plane, abandoning their home to conquer and devour creatures in other realms. To meet their need to navigate great distances, the neogi first dominated and assimilated the umber hulks of another lost world. Then, with these slaves providing the physical labor, the neogi designed and built sleek vessels, some capable of traversing the planes, to carry them to their new frontiers.
To a person in the States, when they see that amount of redacted test, they immediately think something is seriously wrong. I take it in Britain people are used to having text redacted to that extent and don't question why it was done?
Thank you.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMThere is nothing in the flavor text that states Neogi are slavers.
In one of the edits I dropped the question about whether it was the lack of mentioning "slavery" or "chattel property" or some such.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMThis is from the Description of Neogi from Spelljammer Adventures in space page 93 from Lorebook of the Void:
Your finger slipped. It's page 83. ;)
(Sorry, I'm being an ass-hat here. It really is just one of the few
D&D books that I own, and I really was looking at it earlier. Though the PDF that I have doesn't have page numbers on it. *shakes first at DTRPG* O.o )
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMIn the screenshot I gave you, no where do they say the Neogi owns anyone.
Well, they do say that they "dominated and assimilated" Umbral Hulks. That's not specifically calling out slavery, as you note.
With that said, I'm also not sure what from that image is
missing. Perhaps there was another section that went into detail on this aspect? I mention only this because that's a pretty sh*t description of a race and if that's the gold standard for
D&D I'm glad that I don't bother with it--there's nothing to get your teeth into.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMIn the original unredacted text the neogi are slavers.
Ah, that's exactly what I wanted to learn. Thank you again.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMTo a person in the States, when they see that amount of redacted test, they immediately think something is seriously wrong. I take it in Britain people are used to having text redacted to that extent and don't question why it was done?
I think that's a tad bit unfair as I
did ask what the redacted text said as I otherwise had no frame of reference. I don't know what I don't know.
(Also, I'm a US citizen and very used to having to deal with redacted text--the reasons for it and why it's annoying when it's put in front of you.)
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 25, 2023, 11:13:20 PM
Thank you.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMThere is nothing in the flavor text that states Neogi are slavers.
In one of the edits I dropped the question about whether it was the lack of mentioning "slavery" or "chattel property" or some such.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMThis is from the Description of Neogi from Spelljammer Adventures in space page 93 from Lorebook of the Void:
Your finger slipped. It's page 83. ;)
(Sorry, I'm being an ass-hat here. It really is just one of the few D&D books that I own, and I really was looking at it earlier. Though the PDF that I have doesn't have page numbers on it. *shakes first at DTRPG* O.o )
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMIn the screenshot I gave you, no where do they say the Neogi owns anyone.
Well, they do say that they "dominated and assimilated" Umbral Hulks. That's not specifically calling out slavery, as you note.
With that said, I'm also not sure what from that image is missing. Perhaps there was another section that went into detail on this aspect? I mention only this because that's a pretty sh*t description of a race and if that's the gold standard for D&D I'm glad that I don't bother with it--there's nothing to get your teeth into.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMIn the original unredacted text the neogi are slavers.
Ah, that's exactly what I wanted to learn. Thank you again.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 10:44:58 PMTo a person in the States, when they see that amount of redacted test, they immediately think something is seriously wrong. I take it in Britain people are used to having text redacted to that extent and don't question why it was done?
I think that's a tad bit unfair as I did ask what the redacted text said as I otherwise had no frame of reference. I don't know what I don't know.
(Also, I'm a US citizen and very used to having to deal with redacted text--the reasons for it and why it's annoying when it's put in front of you.)
it comes down to this:
Leftard WotC Neogi's: Vulcans
TSR Neogi's: Slavers
WotC's new description of Negoi's makes zero sense compared to their past. If you run older content and read the old books, the Neogi will bear no resemblance in behaviors. I for one can't wait for what a bunch of weird white leftists come up with that are offensive to themselves and what needs to be erased. I'm willing to bet the Nazi's will be memory holed before I'm dead. They won't be taught about, they will be expunged. Everyone is happy in the new socialist utopia where a black man marries a white woman and gives birth to an asian daughter and a hispanic son with a dog that birth's kittens.
Accelerate WotC!! Faster toward that brick wall!!
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 25, 2023, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 09:07:14 PM
In reality, Neogi are evil space slavers. They were the main villains or Spelljammer. In 5E Wokester edition, they are Evil Spock. There is no edge, there is nothing cool or edgey about them, they are about as edgey as oatmeal with soy milk.
I'm... not getting that from the images/descriptions that you posted. In fact, reading through the original version--one of the only D&D products that I own (SpellJammer - Adventures in Space)--has a similar description, though with far more florid text. (It could practically have been written by someone from the UK! ;) )
They seem to remain "evil space slavers" focused as they are on property and the premises of "owned" and "not owned". They are both Lawful Evil etc.
Maybe the rub is in the redacted text? I have no idea what that might include. Do you know what it says? Would it be helpful to me to understand the criticism?
But, but, the Neogi have a power called ENSLAVE! Help help I have been triggered! :P
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 11:19:30 PMLeftard WotC Neogi's: Vulcans
TSR Neogi's: Slavers
With the caveat that I am once again not sure what additional text there is, nor what the text is that has been "redacted" (nor who gave it the redacted treatment except insofar as it might pertain to "woke" ideology)?
Why are these inherently exclusive positions? Why, using the above language, can neogi
not be "Vulcan Slavers"? If you take a look at the second paragraph in their description from that
original book (I have nothing new) then:
Quote from: Spelljammer - Adventures in Space, p. 83The neogi are hated throughout the Know Spheres, and their spiderships are often attacked without giving them the chance for provocation. The reason is that neogi are ruthless slayers and plunderers to the last being, and think nothing of eating their enemies, servants, or fallen comrades. In all the variety of the universe, one truth remains: the Neogi are a hateful, xenophoic race that has no friends.
I mean, adding on "slavers" to the end of that doesn't drastically alter that, nor is their ability to "not do the feeling thing" (because, of course, they should have "feelings" in comprehensible human terms?). Perhaps it would have been to say that they are "utterly alien" or "utterly incomprehensible" from the perspective of humans (etc.?).
Heck, they're on diplomatic/economic terms with
Mindflayers!? (I've played BG3, so I've got a semi-memory of what they're like!)
If anything, I'm finding the notion of representing them as inherent "slavers" and thus "evil" to be somewhat simplistic. What purpose does slavery fill in neogi society other than saying "Me has many slaves, me big boss" (apparently I'm speaking in pseudo-Ork now!?)?
Even in the American South, there was a
reason for slavery, as horrid as that might be, and whether it was enslaved First Nation people, white indentured servants or whatever. There doesn't seem to be a reason for it with the neogi other than "Oh, they eat people and keep slaves so that they can become captains!"
Maybe I'm just reading the original materials incorrectly? There's something deeper and more nuanced?
The "Ecology" section with respect to "Grand Old Masters" just seems perplexing to me. I'm not sure quite how this fits into ecology--at least as I understand it. (Back of postage stamp knowledge etc.).
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 11:19:30 PMI'm willing to bet the Nazi's will be memory holed before I'm dead. They won't be taught about, they will be expunged. Everyone is happy in the new socialist utopia where a black man marries a white woman and gives birth to an asian daughter and a hispanic son with a dog that birth's kittens.
I find that hard to believe, especially since as the Right claims frequently that they're called Nazis so why would the Left give that up? ;)
I don't know quite how to interpret the last sentence, so I'll just leave that alone to focus on the game stuff.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 26, 2023, 05:36:38 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 11:19:30 PMLeftard WotC Neogi's: Vulcans
TSR Neogi's: Slavers
With the caveat that I am once again not sure what additional text there is, nor what the text is that has been "redacted" (nor who gave it the redacted treatment except insofar as it might pertain to "woke" ideology)?
Why are these inherently exclusive positions? Why, using the above language, can neogi not be "Vulcan Slavers"? If you take a look at the second paragraph in their description from that original book (I have nothing new) then:
Quote from: Spelljammer - Adventures in Space, p. 83The neogi are hated throughout the Know Spheres, and their spiderships are often attacked without giving them the chance for provocation. The reason is that neogi are ruthless slayers and plunderers to the last being, and think nothing of eating their enemies, servants, or fallen comrades. In all the variety of the universe, one truth remains: the Neogi are a hateful, xenophoic race that has no friends.
I mean, adding on "slavers" to the end of that doesn't drastically alter that, nor is their ability to "not do the feeling thing" (because, of course, they should have "feelings" in comprehensible human terms?). Perhaps it would have been to say that they are "utterly alien" or "utterly incomprehensible" from the perspective of humans (etc.?).
Heck, they're on diplomatic/economic terms with Mindflayers!? (I've played BG3, so I've got a semi-memory of what they're like!)
If anything, I'm finding the notion of representing them as inherent "slavers" and thus "evil" to be somewhat simplistic. What purpose does slavery fill in neogi society other than saying "Me has many slaves, me big boss" (apparently I'm speaking in pseudo-Ork now!?)?
Even in the American South, there was a reason for slavery, as horrid as that might be, and whether it was enslaved First Nation people, white indentured servants or whatever. There doesn't seem to be a reason for it with the neogi other than "Oh, they eat people and keep slaves so that they can become captains!"
Maybe I'm just reading the original materials incorrectly? There's something deeper and more nuanced?
The "Ecology" section with respect to "Grand Old Masters" just seems perplexing to me. I'm not sure quite how this fits into ecology--at least as I understand it. (Back of postage stamp knowledge etc.).
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 11:19:30 PMI'm willing to bet the Nazi's will be memory holed before I'm dead. They won't be taught about, they will be expunged. Everyone is happy in the new socialist utopia where a black man marries a white woman and gives birth to an asian daughter and a hispanic son with a dog that birth's kittens.
I find that hard to believe, especially since as the Right claims frequently that they're called Nazis so why would the Left give that up? ;)
I don't know quite how to interpret the last sentence, so I'll just leave that alone to focus on the game stuff.
The reason why the leftards are removing slavery as a term is they themselves were slavers, ie Democrats. They feel very uncomfortable having slavery brought up and they want it removed from the lexicon. The excuse they use is if you don't talk about something, then it won't happen, which is cute. Obama bombed Libya and a consequence of that was in Libya you could buy an African for $400, it didn't stop until the beginning of 2021. The left in the US is an inherently racist institution, everything is based on race. The leaders of said group of little racists tend to be quite wealthy whites. Being called a Nazi and having that pointed out to them based on their genetics will be very disconcerting to said little group of racist nuts. Hence why if the left is given enough time, they'll even memory hole the Nazi's. Leftard authoritarians tend to pick a racial group and favor them, look at the USSR and how they dispersed &/or genocided ethnicities that were not Russian or Chicom China where they took neighboring tribes, told the chief they were now Han and killed those who tried to resist. Welcome to Leftard Authoritarianism, its innately racial and it ends poorly for the people inflicted with it.
As to you going into the motivations of Neogis, while I find it cute, the Neogi were created to be a monster to be killed, they are a plot point. You could ask the same for motivations for a crystal ooze, they are there to be an obstacle to the party to overcome. You can fill in whatever you want for their motivation, slavery was used to give players an incentive to kill them before they take away resources (towns) from the party and/or ultimately enslave them (TPK). The same way how orcs are used as monsters to fight. You don't have a game if you have nothing to kill, its that simple. You know how slaves were used for agriculture, industry, status and wealth in the Ottoman Empire or Aztec Empire as an example. You have a complete economic system when slavery is brought into the countries economic system. Just by using the term slavery you have encoded a tremendous amount of information on the creature, its motivations and economics.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PM
The reason why the leftards are removing slavery as a term is they themselves were slavers, ie Democrats.
Errr, you do realise that there's this whole political shift when it comes to "Democrats" and "Republicans", right?
The term "180" might be involved?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMThey feel very uncomfortable having slavery brought up and they want it removed from the lexicon.
Which lexicon?
If the Left is up to shenanigans they should totally be called out on this.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMObama bombed Libya...
Totally.
At this point, however, I don't think that my agreement (or not) is going to be taken in a good way. You know. Because I'm a "fake centrist".
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMAs to you going into the motivations of Neogis, while I find it cute, the Neogi were created to be a monster to be killed, they are a plot point. You could ask the same for motivations for a crystal ooze, they are there to be an obstacle to the party to overcome. [/qutoe]
Seriously, if your preference is unthinking application of tropes? Go for it. There's really nothing wrong with it at your table.
I think that there's a point at which you can explore nuances. Just as the same as you can explore shitty neogi races.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMJust by using the term slavery you have encoded a tremendous amount of information on the creature, its motivations and economics.
For the lowest common denominator? Sure.
If that's where you're at? Cool.
#therpgsite
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 26, 2023, 08:21:23 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PM
The reason why the leftards are removing slavery as a term is they themselves were slavers, ie Democrats.
Errr, you do realise that there's this whole political shift when it comes to "Democrats" and "Republicans", right?
The term "180" might be involved?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMThey feel very uncomfortable having slavery brought up and they want it removed from the lexicon.
Which lexicon?
If the Left is up to shenanigans they should totally be called out on this.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMObama bombed Libya...
Totally.
At this point, however, I don't think that my agreement (or not) is going to be taken in a good way. You know. Because I'm a "fake centrist".
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMAs to you going into the motivations of Neogis, while I find it cute, the Neogi were created to be a monster to be killed, they are a plot point. You could ask the same for motivations for a crystal ooze, they are there to be an obstacle to the party to overcome. [/qutoe]
Seriously, if your preference is unthinking application of tropes? Go for it. There's really nothing wrong with it at your table.
I think that there's a point at which you can explore nuances. Just as the same as you can explore shitty neogi races.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMJust by using the term slavery you have encoded a tremendous amount of information on the creature, its motivations and economics.
For the lowest common denominator? Sure.
If that's where you're at? Cool.
#therpgsite
As to lexicon, WotC is literally removing the term "slavery" from WotC's Lexicon. As to slavery encoding information, again its quite useful from an economic perspective. I do not require an entire backstory on a monster entry in a book. If a splatbook is released that is expected. You are going to expect condensed information in a monster manual. Terms like feudal, tribal, matriarchy, republic, slavery all denote how a monster lives as a society in a greatly condensed term and word count.
I'm totally not sure where to progress from the last post.
A part of my sees it as saying that WotC (and maybe D&D sucks ass at world and race development.
I don't know.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 26, 2023, 08:59:36 PM
I'm totally not sure where to progress from the last post.
A part of my sees it as saying that WotC (and maybe D&D sucks ass at world and race development.
I don't know.
WotC is putting leftard ideological views over content and they are losing sales because of it. In the last 5 years, Hasbro has lost 50% of its value. D&D sales figures continue to go down for modules and splat books that are not connecting with the audiences. They are producing content by leftards for leftards, the problem is the leftards generally aren't working, they don't have spend and they don't buy D&D content.
The amount of censorship of terms makes it impossible to understand what a number of monsters behaviors are supposed to be. WTF is a "typal" society? How the fuck am I supposed to run an NPC that WotC calls "upset" when the original module from 1E listed the merchant as insane. Does it mean if WotC writes "distraught" or "upset" the character should be insane or just irritated because we are having to substitute meaning for what WotC is censoring for content. It causes a change in how the NPC would be portrayed to the party. The more words that WotC censors and replaces with what can best be called non sequiturs the more people nope out of WotC's content. There is no flavor to WotC's content, they are taking out the spice and replacing it with tepid water.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 26, 2023, 08:59:36 PM
I'm totally not sure where to progress from the last post.
A part of my sees it as saying that WotC (and maybe D&D sucks ass at world and race development.
I don't know.
Just leave it at WOTC sucks ass and you can't go wrong.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 26, 2023, 08:21:23 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PM
The reason why the leftards are removing slavery as a term is they themselves were slavers, ie Democrats.
Errr, you do realise that there's this whole political shift when it comes to "Democrats" and "Republicans", right?
The term "180" might be involved?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMThey feel very uncomfortable having slavery brought up and they want it removed from the lexicon.
Which lexicon?
If the Left is up to shenanigans they should totally be called out on this.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMObama bombed Libya...
Totally.
At this point, however, I don't think that my agreement (or not) is going to be taken in a good way. You know. Because I'm a "fake centrist".
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMAs to you going into the motivations of Neogis, while I find it cute, the Neogi were created to be a monster to be killed, they are a plot point. You could ask the same for motivations for a crystal ooze, they are there to be an obstacle to the party to overcome. [/qutoe]
Seriously, if your preference is unthinking application of tropes? Go for it. There's really nothing wrong with it at your table.
I think that there's a point at which you can explore nuances. Just as the same as you can explore shitty neogi races.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMJust by using the term slavery you have encoded a tremendous amount of information on the creature, its motivations and economics.
For the lowest common denominator? Sure.
If that's where you're at? Cool.
#therpgsite
As to lexicon, WotC is literally removing the term "slavery" from WotC's Lexicon. As to slavery encoding information, again its quite useful from an economic perspective. I do not require an entire backstory on a monster entry in a book. If a splatbook is released that is expected. You are going to expect condensed information in a monster manual. Terms like feudal, tribal, matriarchy, republic, slavery all denote how a monster lives as a society in a greatly condensed term and word count.
I admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic. Trying to explain woke to him is like trying to explain water to a fish... he is so surrounded by it he can't even conceive of any absence of it. Though I am amused by dudes like this trying to lecture others about American political parties and their historic ideals (note the boilerplate mindless repetition of "the parties switched!" that the Dems use to try and immunize themselves from their history). It's like watching an Eskimo describe the mentality and lifestyle of Sub-Saharan Africans... to a Congolese...
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 26, 2023, 10:25:46 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 08:51:56 PM
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 26, 2023, 08:21:23 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PM
The reason why the leftards are removing slavery as a term is they themselves were slavers, ie Democrats.
Errr, you do realise that there's this whole political shift when it comes to "Democrats" and "Republicans", right?
The term "180" might be involved?
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMThey feel very uncomfortable having slavery brought up and they want it removed from the lexicon.
Which lexicon?
If the Left is up to shenanigans they should totally be called out on this.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMObama bombed Libya...
Totally.
At this point, however, I don't think that my agreement (or not) is going to be taken in a good way. You know. Because I'm a "fake centrist".
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMAs to you going into the motivations of Neogis, while I find it cute, the Neogi were created to be a monster to be killed, they are a plot point. You could ask the same for motivations for a crystal ooze, they are there to be an obstacle to the party to overcome. [/qutoe]
Seriously, if your preference is unthinking application of tropes? Go for it. There's really nothing wrong with it at your table.
I think that there's a point at which you can explore nuances. Just as the same as you can explore shitty neogi races.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PMJust by using the term slavery you have encoded a tremendous amount of information on the creature, its motivations and economics.
For the lowest common denominator? Sure.
If that's where you're at? Cool.
#therpgsite
As to lexicon, WotC is literally removing the term "slavery" from WotC's Lexicon. As to slavery encoding information, again its quite useful from an economic perspective. I do not require an entire backstory on a monster entry in a book. If a splatbook is released that is expected. You are going to expect condensed information in a monster manual. Terms like feudal, tribal, matriarchy, republic, slavery all denote how a monster lives as a society in a greatly condensed term and word count.
I admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic. Trying to explain woke to him is like trying to explain water to a fish... he is so surrounded by it he can't even conceive of any absence of it. Though I am amused by dudes like this trying to lecture others about American political parties and their historic ideals (note the boilerplate mindless repetition of "the parties switched!" that the Dems use to try and immunize themselves from their history). It's like watching an Eskimo describe the mentality and lifestyle of Sub-Saharan Africans... to a Congolese...
I enjoy causing mental pain to leftists personally.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 26, 2023, 08:21:23 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 26, 2023, 07:39:45 PM
The reason why the leftards are removing slavery as a term is they themselves were slavers, ie Democrats.
Errr, you do realise that there's this whole political shift when it comes to "Democrats" and "Republicans", right?
The term "180" might be involved?
More like zero degrees. Which party is on the side of human traffickers today? The same party that was the party of slavery then.
EDIT: My mistake. I responded to a Kage post.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 26, 2023, 10:25:46 PMI admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic.
And I guess I could say something like, I don't know, "you're one of the nativist fucktards that couldn't pass the USCIS civics test if it was explained to you
real slow, just like 70% of the Bible Belt." (And, yes, this is the same BS as you are perpetuating.)
If there are elitist pricks around here, it might just be you.
But of course you realise this and likely revel in it. It's my fault that I responded to the political BS.
Ah, fuck it. Done. You have succeeded. This place is just like the left-wing bullshit from rpg.net. I'm glad that you have found your happy place. I just wanted to talk about gaming without being pressured to conform to political BS and the ahistorical BS about parties was the defining moment here.
I wish you a country with better civic education, less lying to yourself, and less BS. Good luck.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 27, 2023, 03:53:56 AM
It's my fault that I responded to the political BS.
It truly is. You claim to want to avoid all the political stuff but then you interact with a thread that's clearly political. Just don't. There's plenty of threads here which are non political and just about gaming, stuck to those like everyone else who doesn't want to deal with politics.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 27, 2023, 03:53:56 AM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 26, 2023, 10:25:46 PMI admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic.
And I guess I could say something like, I don't know, "you're one of the nativist fucktards that couldn't pass the USCIS civics test if it was explained to you real slow, just like 70% of the Bible Belt." (And, yes, this is the same BS as you are perpetuating.)
If there are elitist pricks around here, it might just be you.
But of course you realise this and likely revel in it. It's my fault that I responded to the political BS.
Ah, fuck it. Done. You have succeeded. This place is just like the left-wing bullshit from rpg.net. I'm glad that you have found your happy place. I just wanted to talk about gaming without being pressured to conform to political BS and the ahistorical BS about parties was the defining moment here.
I wish you a country with better civic education, less lying to yourself, and less BS. Good luck.
Ultimately any site with free speech will tend to gravitate towards conservatism due to merits of the argument. Note son, you weren't banned here, it was your complete and utter lack of merit in your arguments that made you tuck your pecker between your legs and run because everything political you argued has ZERO merit. On a number of leftist sites you get no practice in your political arguments and the amount of ignorance that falls out of your mouth is telling.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 27, 2023, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 27, 2023, 03:53:56 AM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 26, 2023, 10:25:46 PMI admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic.
And I guess I could say something like, I don't know, "you're one of the nativist fucktards that couldn't pass the USCIS civics test if it was explained to you real slow, just like 70% of the Bible Belt." (And, yes, this is the same BS as you are perpetuating.)
If there are elitist pricks around here, it might just be you.
But of course you realise this and likely revel in it. It's my fault that I responded to the political BS.
Ah, fuck it. Done. You have succeeded. This place is just like the left-wing bullshit from rpg.net. I'm glad that you have found your happy place. I just wanted to talk about gaming without being pressured to conform to political BS and the ahistorical BS about parties was the defining moment here.
I wish you a country with better civic education, less lying to yourself, and less BS. Good luck.
Ultimately any site with free speech will tend to gravitate towards conservatism due to merits of the argument. Note son, you weren't banned here, it was your complete and utter lack of merit in your arguments that made you tuck your pecker between your legs and run because everything political you argued has ZERO merit. On a number of leftist sites you get no practice in your political arguments and the amount of ignorance that falls out of your mouth is telling.
When a leftist leaves a controlled echo chamber where statements go unchallenged, and ventures into a place where he has to back up his argument with facts and reason, it's a type of culture shock.
Quote from: Cathode Ray on November 27, 2023, 09:05:30 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 27, 2023, 06:54:02 AM
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 27, 2023, 03:53:56 AM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 26, 2023, 10:25:46 PMI admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic.
And I guess I could say something like, I don't know, "you're one of the nativist fucktards that couldn't pass the USCIS civics test if it was explained to you real slow, just like 70% of the Bible Belt." (And, yes, this is the same BS as you are perpetuating.)
If there are elitist pricks around here, it might just be you.
But of course you realise this and likely revel in it. It's my fault that I responded to the political BS.
Ah, fuck it. Done. You have succeeded. This place is just like the left-wing bullshit from rpg.net. I'm glad that you have found your happy place. I just wanted to talk about gaming without being pressured to conform to political BS and the ahistorical BS about parties was the defining moment here.
I wish you a country with better civic education, less lying to yourself, and less BS. Good luck.
Ultimately any site with free speech will tend to gravitate towards conservatism due to merits of the argument. Note son, you weren't banned here, it was your complete and utter lack of merit in your arguments that made you tuck your pecker between your legs and run because everything political you argued has ZERO merit. On a number of leftist sites you get no practice in your political arguments and the amount of ignorance that falls out of your mouth is telling.
When a leftist leaves a controlled echo chamber where statements go unchallenged, and ventures into a place where he has to back up his argument with facts and reason, it's a type of culture shock.
The real cultural shock for leftists will be in countries where they win, nationalize farms and then go into immediate famine and genocides. That is the real cultural shock. And like surprised detective pikachu they are like why didn't anyone tell them that socialism always fails and leads to famine and genocides? How is this not known.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 27, 2023, 03:53:56 AM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 26, 2023, 10:25:46 PMI admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic.
And I guess I could say something like, I don't know, "you're one of the nativist fucktards that couldn't pass the USCIS civics test if it was explained to you real slow, just like 70% of the Bible Belt." (And, yes, this is the same BS as you are perpetuating.)
If there are elitist pricks around here, it might just be you.
But of course you realise this and likely revel in it. It's my fault that I responded to the political BS.
Ah, fuck it. Done. You have succeeded. This place is just like the left-wing bullshit from rpg.net. I'm glad that you have found your happy place. I just wanted to talk about gaming without being pressured to conform to political BS and the ahistorical BS about parties was the defining moment here.
I wish you a country with better civic education, less lying to yourself, and less BS. Good luck.
I disagree with a lot of what you say and think that you're kinda clueless about most of the political issues people discuss here. But you're not wrong that this place is dominated by abrasive people who're completely oblivious to how partisan they are. And the "no non-gaming related politics" rule makes it impossible to argue with someone who significantly disagrees on these topics without skirting to rules. Making this place kinda pointless for political discussion unless you already agree with people here.
Plus you don't even like D&D from what I seen you post. And this place is rabidly pro-D&D/OSR. So this not might be the best place for you. Sent you a PM.
Quote from: Kage2020 on November 27, 2023, 03:53:56 AM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on November 26, 2023, 10:25:46 PMI admire your persistence, but this dude is a foreign-born beltway bandit and academic.
And I guess I could say something like, I don't know, "you're one of the nativist fucktards that couldn't pass the USCIS civics test if it was explained to you real slow, just like 70% of the Bible Belt." (And, yes, this is the same BS as you are perpetuating.)
If there are elitist pricks around here, it might just be you.
But of course you realise this and likely revel in it. It's my fault that I responded to the political BS.
Ah, fuck it. Done. You have succeeded. This place is just like the left-wing bullshit from rpg.net. I'm glad that you have found your happy place. I just wanted to talk about gaming without being pressured to conform to political BS and the ahistorical BS about parties was the defining moment here.
I wish you a country with better civic education, less lying to yourself, and less BS. Good luck.
This place is not like rpg.net. You haven't been banned or sanctioned by moderators even after disagreeing with the prevalent politics of the site on a thread started by the site's owner. rpg.net is a totalitarian state. Here you have free speech and others are free to disagree with you.
I'm here to talk about RPGs too, so I usually don't get into the political discussions. It's easy. You can do it too if that's what you're here for,
87 posts and dipping out over this? LOL. I can't even say that's a good try.
Quote from: tenbones on November 28, 2023, 02:32:24 AM
87 posts and dipping out over this? LOL. I can't even say that's a good try.
When a guy is a cultural marxist and decides he's going to give it to those damn guys over at the rpgsite who are to the right of Stalin, and then he fails continuously, well flameout is expected. Most leftists are on heavily controlled boards where their "allies" took over moderation and the site is decidedly Marxist in nature. Just go to the RPG.net and you'll get an idea of the people who frequent there and their ability to make a political argument to people again right of Stalin. Its pretty bad.
I'll play Satan's Lawyer a bit...
WotC owns D&D. Do they not have the right to pillage the D&D brand as they see fit? Do they not have the right to lie to everyone about its history? To fill it with their own self-loathing fantasies and frankenstein it into a worse monstrosity than it is now?
And why do we care? They are about to seal themselves off in Crypt of Insanity. The brand is going elsewhere to dwell and hopefully they'll bring the Marxists with them into the walled Crypt. And there they should lay for all eternity... doing unspeakable acts to themselves.
Let them spin their lies. Give them no money, no sustenance, no energy. We have better things to do (and play).
Dude, I'm just having fun eating popcorn as I watch WotC find new and creative ways to cut their sales in half. If Hasbro was a radioactive element, its half life would be 5 years. It's looking like WotC'oninum half life is less than Hasbro's we just haven't found out yet. I've seent he sales figures coming out of Tenkar and its not looking great for D&D right now.
I do everything I can not to give WotC a dime. I was going to get a bingo card going for cancellation words for my groups with a $1 buy in for cards, but the recent dump just made me rethink trying to do it now. Too much has already been used.
Quote from: tenbones on November 28, 2023, 11:45:49 AM
I'll play Satan's Lawyer a bit...
WotC owns D&D. Do they not have the right to pillage the D&D brand as they see fit? Do they not have the right to lie to everyone about its history? To fill it with their own self-loathing fantasies and frankenstein it into a worse monstrosity than it is now?
Only if you're granting classical liberal premises about the sanctity of property rights and contracts. Work from a traditionalist viewpoint that values tradition and the common good, or a progressive viewpoint that believes in equity and redress of historical grievances by certain parties, and you might get a different answer. :)
Quote
And why do we care? They are about to seal themselves off in Crypt of Insanity. The brand is going elsewhere to dwell and hopefully they'll bring the Marxists with them into the walled Crypt. And there they should lay for all eternity... doing unspeakable acts to themselves.
Let them spin their lies. Give them no money, no sustenance, no energy. We have better things to do (and play).
Here, I fully agree. Leave The Game Behind. There are enough variants and alternatives for nearly every taste and style of game; it's just a question of figuring them out and attracting players.
That's exactly right - THIS is the time to make those changes in order to start attracting people to whatever the "new thing(s)" are going to be. I think the fight to keep the elements of the radioactive freakshow "alive" is less optimal. I'm not convinced everyone will suddenly go to OSR d20, but they should certainly get a big boost from those that don't get on the WotC Starship to Hell.
Hell even the weirdos at Paizo are shifting away from D&D. I say it's not far enough (though some of the mechanical changes they're making I know about are *good* - it's the rest of their woke content that I refuse to give them money for).
I have a d30 based fantasy game that I am still developing. Because of what WOTC is doing I have to make sure that slavery, tribes, savages, barbarians, insanity, etc are very much a part of the game.
Quote from: Exploderwizard on November 28, 2023, 02:48:04 PM
I have a d30 based fantasy game that I am still developing. Because of what WOTC is doing I have to make sure that slavery, tribes, savages, barbarians, insanity, etc are very much a part of the game.
D30? Bold choice. Part of me hopes this isnt a typo lol.
Quote from: Slambo on November 28, 2023, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on November 28, 2023, 02:48:04 PM
I have a d30 based fantasy game that I am still developing. Because of what WOTC is doing I have to make sure that slavery, tribes, savages, barbarians, insanity, etc are very much a part of the game.
D30? Bold choice. Part of me hopes this isnt a typo lol.
It's 50% more linear! :)
No one but Gen X will know the real name of Boba Fett's Starship.
Do the recent Star Wars RPGs do this as well?
(https://brickcatch.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/lego-75312-boba-fetts-starship.jpg)
Quote from: Aglondir on November 28, 2023, 05:56:56 PM
No one but Gen X will know the real name of Boba Fett's Starship.
Do the recent Star Wars RPGs do this as well?
I'm reminded of the naming of Megatron. As I heard the story, Hasbro thought Megatron sounded a lot like Megaton (as in megatons of nuclear bombs), and found it a bit threatening. The guy who was creating the lore and naming characters said (and I paraphrase) "He's the bad guy leader. That's the point." and the Hasbro execs reconsidered. (https://aiptcomics.com/2017/04/14/the-man-who-named-megatron-an-interview-with-transformers-writer-bob-budiansky/#:~:text=AiPT!%3A%20Do%20you%20have,connotation%2C%20which%20was%20my%20intent.)
I guess we can change the name of Boba Fett's ship to "Happy Fun Ship".
Quote from: Aglondir on November 28, 2023, 05:56:56 PM
No one but Gen X will know the real name of Boba Fett's Starship.
Do the recent Star Wars RPGs do this as well?
The weird thing about wokeness and slavery is that it seems to loop around. I ran some Star Wars one-shots where the PCs were droids, where dealing with their status as property was a big part of the game. That effectively made slavery a big part of the game, and I remember some posters here said that sounded woke. So cutting out slavery is woke, but featuring slavery is also considered woke.
So I definitely have had games that delve into dark stuff like rape, torture, cannibalism, slavery, etc. - but I also have plenty of games that are more kid-friendly and positive. Grimdark isn't the same as adult or serious. Lots of great stories don't have particularly dark material.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 28, 2023, 07:02:57 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on November 28, 2023, 05:56:56 PM
No one but Gen X will know the real name of Boba Fett's Starship.
Do the recent Star Wars RPGs do this as well?
I'm reminded of the naming of Megatron. As I heard the story, Hasbro thought Megatron sounded a lot like Megaton (as in megatons of nuclear bombs), and found it a bit threatening. The guy who was creating the lore and naming characters said (and I paraphrase) "He's the bad guy leader. That's the point." and the Hasbro execs reconsidered. (https://aiptcomics.com/2017/04/14/the-man-who-named-megatron-an-interview-with-transformers-writer-bob-budiansky/#:~:text=AiPT!%3A%20Do%20you%20have,connotation%2C%20which%20was%20my%20intent.)
I guess we can change the name of Boba Fett's ship to "Happy Fun Ship".
Dude, you better hope that HasbeenBro's don't see this Flasgitz spoof of Transformers, they'll change the entire line to these characters:
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 28, 2023, 12:26:32 PM
Dude, I'm just having fun eating popcorn as I watch WotC find new and creative ways to cut their sales in half. If Hasbro was a radioactive element, its half life would be 5 years. It's looking like WotC'oninum half life is less than Hasbro's we just haven't found out yet. I've seent he sales figures coming out of Tenkar and its not looking great for D&D right now.
I do everything I can not to give WotC a dime. I was going to get a bingo card going for cancellation words for my groups with a $1 buy in for cards, but the recent dump just made me rethink trying to do it now. Too much has already been used.
This could even be deliberate.
Tank 5e sales as "proof" that D&D NEEEEEEEEDS a 6e.
"look look! 5e sales are down down! Players are tired of 5e and WANT, no, NEEEEEED 6e!" (and 7e and 8e ad nausium)
Quote from: jhkim on November 29, 2023, 01:48:40 AM
The weird thing about wokeness and slavery is that it seems to loop around. I ran some Star Wars one-shots where the PCs were droids, where dealing with their status as property was a big part of the game. That effectively made slavery a big part of the game, and I remember some posters here said that sounded woke. So cutting out slavery is woke, but featuring slavery is also considered woke.
The problem isnt having slavery is woke.
It is the HOW of it. Disney rams down your throat that droids are just metal black people and slaves.
Remember. It is bad and wrong and no one can use it... only till the woke want to make money off it.
Quote from: Omega on November 29, 2023, 10:29:08 AM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 28, 2023, 12:26:32 PM
Dude, I'm just having fun eating popcorn as I watch WotC find new and creative ways to cut their sales in half. If Hasbro was a radioactive element, its half life would be 5 years. It's looking like WotC'oninum half life is less than Hasbro's we just haven't found out yet. I've seent he sales figures coming out of Tenkar and its not looking great for D&D right now.
I do everything I can not to give WotC a dime. I was going to get a bingo card going for cancellation words for my groups with a $1 buy in for cards, but the recent dump just made me rethink trying to do it now. Too much has already been used.
This could even be deliberate.
Tank 5e sales as "proof" that D&D NEEEEEEEEDS a 6e.
"look look! 5e sales are down down! Players are tired of 5e and WANT, no, NEEEEEED 6e!" (and 7e and 8e ad nausium)
WotC releases a new version to drive module sales and to force DM's to buy new MM. The thing is, there are a lot of better supplements to 5E before WotC unleashed the OGL and Kyle Brink fiasco. Then 6E is going to be known as the Woke Edition of D&D built by Millenials for Millenials, you know the large demographic group trained to be authoritarians, live at home, have no spend and expect everything to be given to them? You know the guys with no spend who won't be able to buy D&D 6E because they need that money to pay for their membership to Jezebell to tell them what is bad. 6E is made by losers for losers.
Just sit back, and enjoy the popcorn.
Speaking of. Colville goes on for a fucking hour about how great edition treadmills are and waxed poetic about 4e.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 09:07:14 PM
The more that WotC cleanses itself of adjectives and promotes one race over another by political kommisar the more irrelevant and uncool the game becomes. Kids want to do things that makes them the rebel and the outsider to help cleave themselves from their family identity to get their own identity as they grow up. WotC is dead set on becoming the uncool establishment in writing and thought. Think of how WotC is behaving as reverse Satanic Panic, finding new and unedgy ways to become that 45 year old dad with a gut and trying to get a 12 year old to think they cool by bringing out their yoyo tricks, fondue pots and tab cola.
This is WotC's Neogi. According to WotC, Neogi's are space autists with mental power. Because they can't empathize they are evil? Look at all of the redacted text that WotC had to do to comply with their political kommisars. It reads like the redacted Kennedy Assasination report from the FBI.
(https://i.ibb.co/j45Bg9d/Neogi.jpg)
In reality, Neogi are evil space slavers. They were the main villains or Spelljammer. In 5E Wokester edition, they are Evil Spock. There is no edge, there is nothing cool or edgey about them, they are about as edgey as oatmeal with soy milk.
That's a fascinating example!
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 29, 2023, 05:56:24 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 28, 2023, 07:02:57 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on November 28, 2023, 05:56:56 PM
No one but Gen X will know the real name of Boba Fett's Starship.
Do the recent Star Wars RPGs do this as well?
I'm reminded of the naming of Megatron. As I heard the story, Hasbro thought Megatron sounded a lot like Megaton (as in megatons of nuclear bombs), and found it a bit threatening. The guy who was creating the lore and naming characters said (and I paraphrase) "He's the bad guy leader. That's the point." and the Hasbro execs reconsidered. (https://aiptcomics.com/2017/04/14/the-man-who-named-megatron-an-interview-with-transformers-writer-bob-budiansky/#:~:text=AiPT!%3A%20Do%20you%20have,connotation%2C%20which%20was%20my%20intent.)
I guess we can change the name of Boba Fett's ship to "Happy Fun Ship".
Dude, you better hope that HasbeenBro's don't see this Flasgitz spoof of Transformers, they'll change the entire line to these characters:
Pfft. Too late.
https://www.newsweek.com/transformers-non-binary-pronouns-lgbtq-transgender-1800099
Quote from: RPGPundit on November 30, 2023, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 25, 2023, 09:07:14 PM
The more that WotC cleanses itself of adjectives and promotes one race over another by political kommisar the more irrelevant and uncool the game becomes. Kids want to do things that makes them the rebel and the outsider to help cleave themselves from their family identity to get their own identity as they grow up. WotC is dead set on becoming the uncool establishment in writing and thought. Think of how WotC is behaving as reverse Satanic Panic, finding new and unedgy ways to become that 45 year old dad with a gut and trying to get a 12 year old to think they cool by bringing out their yoyo tricks, fondue pots and tab cola.
This is WotC's Neogi. According to WotC, Neogi's are space autists with mental power. Because they can't empathize they are evil? Look at all of the redacted text that WotC had to do to comply with their political kommisars. It reads like the redacted Kennedy Assasination report from the FBI.
(https://i.ibb.co/j45Bg9d/Neogi.jpg)
In reality, Neogi are evil space slavers. They were the main villains or Spelljammer. In 5E Wokester edition, they are Evil Spock. There is no edge, there is nothing cool or edgey about them, they are about as edgey as oatmeal with soy milk.
That's a fascinating example!
On D&D Beyond forums the mod made the excuse its copyrighted and pulled my post and prevented me from posting for a week (the communists are strong at WotC). I don't know if this is fully legal to post but its your site. That being written, compare it to Mord's Tome of Foes, and it's obvious they are space slavers and are evil because they are dicks. When you look at the FBI Redacted version of Negoi I swear to God as a new DM I would play them as Vulcans, I don't think I'd even play them as Romulans as described by WotC now.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 30, 2023, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on November 29, 2023, 05:56:24 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 28, 2023, 07:02:57 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on November 28, 2023, 05:56:56 PM
No one but Gen X will know the real name of Boba Fett's Starship.
Do the recent Star Wars RPGs do this as well?
I'm reminded of the naming of Megatron. As I heard the story, Hasbro thought Megatron sounded a lot like Megaton (as in megatons of nuclear bombs), and found it a bit threatening. The guy who was creating the lore and naming characters said (and I paraphrase) "He's the bad guy leader. That's the point." and the Hasbro execs reconsidered. (https://aiptcomics.com/2017/04/14/the-man-who-named-megatron-an-interview-with-transformers-writer-bob-budiansky/#:~:text=AiPT!%3A%20Do%20you%20have,connotation%2C%20which%20was%20my%20intent.)
I guess we can change the name of Boba Fett's ship to "Happy Fun Ship".
Dude, you better hope that HasbeenBro's don't see this Flasgitz spoof of Transformers, they'll change the entire line to these characters:
Pfft. Too late.
https://www.newsweek.com/transformers-non-binary-pronouns-lgbtq-transgender-1800099
I saw that, its shame the Trans-Transformer didn't even have a crackin set of tits.
Quote from: tenbones on November 28, 2023, 11:45:49 AM
...
WotC owns D&D. Do they not have the right to pillage the D&D brand as they see fit? Do they not have the right to lie to everyone about its history? To fill it with their own self-loathing fantasies and frankenstein it into a worse monstrosity than it is now?
Yes. They 100% have this right.
And IMHO, the faster they get on with it the better for the RPG hobby in the long run.
Quote from: tenbones on November 28, 2023, 11:45:49 AM
And why do we care?
We should care only in that publicly pointing out Wotzi's mistakes serves as a vehicle to spread the word that there are many other good games out there, and that divesting oneself of any investment in IP's that hate you is the way forward.
Quote from: tenbones on November 28, 2023, 11:45:49 AM
They are about to seal themselves off in Crypt of Insanity. The brand is going elsewhere to dwell and hopefully they'll bring the Marxists with them into the walled Crypt. And there they should lay for all eternity... doing unspeakable acts to themselves.
...
We can only dream...
Sigh. As I once told someone in exasperation, trying to assign human sexual concepts and characteristics to giant robots is purely stupid. IDW had it right with the Transformers being normally a monogender race -- you couldn't be 'gay' or 'straight' when everyone's switches are effectively the same.
(Arcee was actually an outlier and had been forcibly mutilated into a female form, which also left her a violent nutcase. Hoo boy, they didn't like that one...)
Getting back on topic, I detest how game companies keep trying to airbrush out things. It was dumb when Paizo did it, and it's dumb when WotC does it. As I stated in another thread, we need antagonists. Villains. Otherwise, what's the point?
I honestly think these people are just sad, petty little creatures, with no room in their souls for wonder and adventure.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 01, 2023, 08:23:24 AM
Sigh. As I once told someone in exasperation, trying to assign human sexual concepts and characteristics to giant robots is purely stupid. IDW had it right with the Transformers being normally a monogender race -- you couldn't be 'gay' or 'straight' when everyone's switches are effectively the same.
(Arcee was actually an outlier and had been forcibly mutilated into a female form, which also left her a violent nutcase. Hoo boy, they didn't like that one...)
Getting back on topic, I detest how game companies keep trying to airbrush out things. It was dumb when Paizo did it, and it's dumb when WotC does it. As I stated in another thread, we need antagonists. Villains. Otherwise, what's the point?
I honestly think these people are just sad, petty little creatures, with no room in their souls for wonder and adventure.
But what about those leftards who identify as Transformers why would you deny them of their robot shaft and gears to pleasure themselves?
I mean I'd like to be joking, but there is probably a few dudes getting plastic surgery to look like Optimus Prime.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on December 01, 2023, 08:23:24 AM
Sigh. As I once told someone in exasperation, trying to assign human sexual concepts and characteristics to giant robots is purely stupid. IDW had it right with the Transformers being normally a monogender race -- you couldn't be 'gay' or 'straight' when everyone's switches are effectively the same.
(Arcee was actually an outlier and had been forcibly mutilated into a female form, which also left her a violent nutcase. Hoo boy, they didn't like that one...)
Getting back on topic, I detest how game companies keep trying to airbrush out things. It was dumb when Paizo did it, and it's dumb when WotC does it. As I stated in another thread, we need antagonists. Villains. Otherwise, what's the point?
I honestly think these people are just sad, petty little creatures, with no room in their souls for wonder and adventure.
This "Transformers are genderless" concept dates all the way back to Generation 1 comic universe. IDW is just being consistent.
Yeah, the original story for the transformers was that they spawned from the matrix in a completely asexual way. Because, y'know, they're machines and all that. Though that said, I'm pretty sure the cartoon, toys, and comics used 'he' to describe the various Autobots and Decepticons instead of 'it', so the door was open for someone to wander by and say that there were female models too.
Quote from: Valatar on December 01, 2023, 11:04:35 PM
Yeah, the original story for the transformers was that they spawned from the matrix in a completely asexual way. Because, y'know, they're machines and all that. Though that said, I'm pretty sure the cartoon, toys, and comics used 'he' to describe the various Autobots and Decepticons instead of 'it', so the door was open for someone to wander by and say that there were female models too.
In the cartoon universe, they were distinctly described as male and female. One unofficial comic from Japan, based on the G1 cartoon, explains the genders in a splash page featuring a male and female Autobot, possibly second generation Cybertronians, each with a half key as a retractable hand tool (like Hot Rod's retractable circular blade in Transformers: The Movie, or Optimus and Megatron's electro battle axe and mace, respectively, in the second episode of the G1 cartoon: More Than Meets the Eye, Part 2.). together, they prepared to interface with Vector Sigma to create new Transformer life, just as Alpha Trion, a first-generation Cybertronian, was able to do it solo with a retractable key in "The Key to Vector Sigma, Part 2". This makes at least some transformers "Male and female" with an actual purpose, and it also puts their reproductive organs in their hands. I wrote a fanfic back in the day where a flirty female Autobot was teasing a male Autobot by retracting her hand (but not showing her key). To a Transformer, an exposed hand-key would be sexy.
In summation: G1 comics: genderless. G1 Animated series: Male and female, but with potential logic behind it.
Quote from: Spinachcat on November 26, 2023, 03:45:19 AM
Accelerate WotC!! Faster toward that brick wall!!
WOTC seems to be doing a good quick job of it, all by themselves. Although, I'm sure they don't want to be outdone by Paizo. Paizo acts as an accelerant.
Quote from: Jam The MF on December 02, 2023, 12:37:57 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat on November 26, 2023, 03:45:19 AM
Accelerate WotC!! Faster toward that brick wall!!
WOTC seems to be doing a good quick job of it, all by themselves. Although, I'm sure they don't want to be outdone by Paizo. Paizo acts as an accelerant.
When running adventurers league content, my favorite thing to do is to remove the degenerate content and run it how a medieval society would run. Strong single mothers running a farm with 2 kids under 10, replaced by a farmer widower with his two kids and ranch hands armed to the teeth. A lesbian couple in a world always on the brink of destruction, replaced with a married couple and their kids. There is no way in the D&D world in any campaign will any society encourage homosexuality with monsters eating up their guards like PEZ candies, society would actively be against that and would set up taboos to prevent it to keep the population up.
QuoteThere is no way in the D&D world in any campaign will any society encourage homosexuality with monsters eating up their guards like PEZ candies, society would actively be against that and would set up taboos to prevent it to keep the population up.
TBH any society when guards are eaten like PEZ candles would collapse like house of cards, and all those extra babies would just be monster food.
In fact now I think about it - most demographic explosions happened precisely in good times after bad times ended. During bad times... yeah statiscs were stagnant or bad.
Just like with animals - bitch will eat her puppies in time of hunger, move other 100 miles and start anew.