Quote from: Valatar on January 11, 2023, 11:52:22 PM
Your company is now out of business and all of your employees are out of work.

How do you figure?
If your company was that successful that JK Rowling reached out to you (and not Wizards) to do an exclusive license, you probably have a fairly loyal fanbase. You still own all the material you published, you just can't use WotC's IP anymore. So... just make you own system and re-release your material as a spiritual "2nd edition."

In fact, that would be the smartest thing you could do, since the OGL 1.1 has no provisions for protecting certain types of content. So if you had a license to Harry Potter and published under the OGL, WotC automatically gets access to the Harry Potter IP. The OGL even says that no other license can change the terms of the OGL.

Your example is silly, but for the sake of the argument, let's go with it. Your conclusion is not consistent with the facts.

Actually, this is a good point. Even if people sign up for 1.1, Wizards will forever and ever miss out on the Licensed d20 games bucks. I know Green Ronin made a Thieve's World d20 game, and I'm sure there were others.

In their quest to grab all the cash they can, they ensured entire publishers will never make "6e" compatible licensed games.

Morons.

Quote from: Effete on January 12, 2023, 12:17:22 AM
In fact, that would be the smartest thing you could do, since the OGL 1.1 has no provisions for protecting certain types of content. So if you had a license to Harry Potter and published under the OGL, WotC automatically gets access to the Harry Potter IP. The OGL even says that no other license can change the terms of the OGL.

Quote from: Valatar on January 11, 2023, 11:52:22 PM
People've been pointing a lot at the 25% cut and the 'we own your stuff for free' part, but not as much on the whole 'we can cut you off for any reason or no reason' part.  Now picture with me: You are the owner of a major RPG production company.  You have dozens of books using the OGL, scores of employees.  One day, JK Rowling calls you.  She wants your company to make the only Harry Potter licensed RPG in the world.  You accept.

Three hours later, approximately 14,000 tweets, 95% from bots, have been @ to Wizards of the Coast about how your company is literally murdering trans people.  By the end of the day, your OGL has been revoked due to your being 'on the wrong side of history, also yikes', according to their press release.

Your company is now out of business and all of your employees are out of work.

You are correct. The uncertainty aspect is certainly the primary reason for every major third party content creator dropping the OGL1.0a like its a radioactive hot potato to go their own way... and why even dropping the OGL1.1 for now won't be nearly enough to bring them back. They already tried this crap once with the GSL and had to walk that back to regain their dominance and many people let them because it looked like they'd learned their lesson. But now have a pattern of ill-intent where it is clear their apology tour with 5e was nothing more than a PR stunt to get back into the hobby's good graces so they could try AGAIN.

Fool us once, shame on you. We were kind hearted enough to forgive you. Trying to fool us twice? Shame on Hasbro/WotC and they've lost good faith that your apologies are anything other than PR spin and damage control so you can hold on and try again.

Very few companies have the cash laying around to cease all sales with no advance warning and pivot to rewrite their entire product line also with no advance warning.  If they knew the hammer was going to drop several months in advance, sure, but the OGL only specifies a 30 day notice.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 12, 2023, 12:26:26 AM
Fool us once, shame on you. We were kind hearted enough to forgive you. Trying to fool us twice? Shame on Hasbro/WotC and they've lost good faith that your apologies are anything other than PR spin and damage control so you can hold on and try again.

I think what you were trying to say was: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me, I can't get fooled again." - Famous Texas saying

Quote from: Daddy Warpig on January 12, 2023, 12:24:14 AM
Actually, this is a good point. Even if people sign up for 1.1, Wizards will forever and ever miss out on the Licensed d20 games bucks. I know Green Ronin made a Thieve's World d20 game, and I'm sure there were others.

In their quest to grab all the cash they can, they ensured entire publishers will never make "6e" compatible licensed games.

Morons.

Morons? Maybe. Although it's entirely possible the new OGL is designed to be a poison pill. I mean, it is so incredibly bad in so many different ways, the real morons are the ones who sign up. We already know about the "perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free" upstream license of ALL Your Content (with no "Product Identity" clause to protect your IP), and the ability to terminate your license for badwrongthink, but also read the section on Indemnity. If you find yourself in a lawsuit, WotC can unilaterally decide to come to your defense, and you need to pay all of their attorney costs and court fees. Like... what?! Even if you don't want their help, too bad! They'll decide what's good for you.

It's so bad I would think it was a joke if WotC didn't stay silent about it for last six days.

Quote from: Effete on January 12, 2023, 12:51:41 AM

Quote from: Daddy Warpig on January 12, 2023, 12:24:14 AM
Actually, this is a good point. Even if people sign up for 1.1, Wizards will forever and ever miss out on the Licensed d20 games bucks. I know Green Ronin made a Thieve's World d20 game, and I'm sure there were others.

In their quest to grab all the cash they can, they ensured entire publishers will never make "6e" compatible licensed games.

Morons.

Morons? Maybe. Although it's entirely possible the new OGL is designed to be a poison pill. I mean, it is so incredibly bad in so many different ways, the real morons are the ones who sign up. We already know about the "perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free" upstream license of ALL Your Content (with no "Product Identity" clause to protect your IP), and the ability to terminate your license for badwrongthink, but also read the section on Indemnity. If you find yourself in a lawsuit, WotC can unilaterally decide to come to your defense, and you need to pay all of their attorney costs and court fees. Like... what?! Even if you don't want their help, too bad! They'll decide what's good for you.

It's so bad I would think it was a joke if WotC didn't stay silent about it for last six days.

that right there in bold. I don't see anything in OGL v1.1 that would be enticing to any company, large or small, to sign onto it.

BIG RED FLAG:

X. OTHER PRODUCTS. Sometimes, great minds think alike. We can't and won't cancel products out of fear that they'd be
seen as "similar to" Licensed Works. Therefore:
A. You agree that nothing prohibits Us from developing, distributing, selling, or promoting something that is
substantially similar to a Licensed Work.
B. You own the new and original content You create. You agree to give Us a nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable,
worldwide, sub-licensable, royalty-free license to use that content for any purpose.
C. For clarity, nothing contained in this Section impacts Your agreement that Our Licensed Content, Unlicensed Content,
and anything else You are not otherwise expressly authorized to use, under the terms of this agreement or any other
agreement, remains Our sole property.

So, in other words, you can make all the retro-clones you want under the new OGL...BUT WoTC has the power to sell, promote, and distribute said work or not. and even though you own it, they can use your product in any way they like "perpetual, irrevocable".

Who in the hell would agree to this?

Quote from: DocJones on January 11, 2023, 03:35:36 PM
Live stream with Ryan Dancey explaining the history of OGL 1.0a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vz9ogq7JTg

This was by far the most informative, enlightening, and entertaining take on the whole ordeal.  Ryan Dancey is a very savvy individual and extremely well spoken.  He articulates what the license can and cannot be and do and what their intentions are.

He states that the lawsuit to come when OGL1.1 drops COULD be resolved quickly due to it being a copyright lawsuit and those CAN get ruled on quickly.  That part was interesting along with the fact WOTC is not stupid enough to go after 4th party licensed IP (tolkein, star wars, marvel, etc) because thats trademark territory and the law is VERY clear on trademark infrigement and less so on copyright law.

Worth listening to the whole 2 hours as there are vital nuggets of Info scattered everywhere

Designed so that only buy me a beer level publishers or those with special deals would even consider signing on to OGL 1.1.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 12, 2023, 07:42:07 AM
He states that the lawsuit to come when OGL1.1 drops COULD be resolved quickly due to it being a copyright lawsuit and those CAN get ruled on quickly.

Which is exactly what I said from the start, when everyone else was parroting the "lawfare" talking point.

QuoteThat part was interesting along with the fact WOTC is not stupid enough to go after 4th party licensed IP (tolkein, star wars, marvel, etc) because thats trademark territory and the law is VERY clear on trademark infrigement and less so on copyright law.

Yeah. Even though the language of the leaked OGL is ambiguous enough that it MAY, technically give access to 4th party IP, I doubt WotC would try to pursue that. What IS more troubling is 2nd party IP (i.e. - "Your Content"), which seems to have far fewer protections under this agreement. Are you really going to take Hasbro/WotC to court to wrest back your campaign idea or a character name/description? That's where the "lawfare" becomes real.

Quote from: Jaeger on January 09, 2023, 06:07:03 PM
These threads really need to be consolidated.

Also: Is it just me, or is WotC really releasing the 1.1 OGL on Friday the 13th?

You just can't make this stuff up...

I have been wondering who thought THAT was a good idea as well.
If anything were to make a person believe in superstitions. THIS!

Quote from: blackstone on January 12, 2023, 07:21:08 AM
BIG RED FLAG:

X. OTHER PRODUCTS. Sometimes, great minds think alike. We can't and won't cancel products out of fear that they'd be
seen as "similar to" Licensed Works. Therefore:
A. You agree that nothing prohibits Us from developing, distributing, selling, or promoting something that is
substantially similar to a Licensed Work.

Who in the hell would agree to this?

That is a standard clause many game publishers drop into their Terms of Submission. That or a "You submit it. We own it." clause.

Its been around a long time too as I started noticing it around 2008.

Insider leak claims WOTC execs think we're a bunch of cows fit only for milking. Subscription cancellations are being monitored right now with the ambience in the office that they might have fucked up.

Lesson to take away from all this: never let anyone named Williams anywhere near D&D.

Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2023, 12:15:38 PM

Quote from: blackstone on January 12, 2023, 07:21:08 AM
BIG RED FLAG:

X. OTHER PRODUCTS. Sometimes, great minds think alike. We can't and won't cancel products out of fear that they'd be
seen as "similar to" Licensed Works. Therefore:
A. You agree that nothing prohibits Us from developing, distributing, selling, or promoting something that is
substantially similar to a Licensed Work.

Who in the hell would agree to this?

That is a standard clause many game publishers drop into their Terms of Submission. That or a "You submit it. We own it." clause.

Its been around a long time too as I started noticing it around 2008.

Clause X.A. is not the the problem. Clause X.B. is the one that's concerning. Giving WotC unmitigated access to use or sub-license EVERYTHING you write, forever, without compensation is unusual. The combination of the two expounds things. It means WotC can just clone your material, and through marketing, outsell you with your content.

Quote from: Effete on January 12, 2023, 01:00:40 PM

Quote from: Omega on January 12, 2023, 12:15:38 PM

Quote from: blackstone on January 12, 2023, 07:21:08 AM
BIG RED FLAG:

X. OTHER PRODUCTS. Sometimes, great minds think alike. We can't and won't cancel products out of fear that they'd be
seen as "similar to" Licensed Works. Therefore:
A. You agree that nothing prohibits Us from developing, distributing, selling, or promoting something that is
substantially similar to a Licensed Work.

Who in the hell would agree to this?

That is a standard clause many game publishers drop into their Terms of Submission. That or a "You submit it. We own it." clause.

Its been around a long time too as I started noticing it around 2008.

Clause X.A. is not the the problem. Clause X.B. is the one that's concerning. Giving WotC unmitigated access to use or sub-license EVERYTHING you write, forever, without compensation is unusual. The combination of the two expounds things. It means WotC can just clone your material, and through marketing, outsell you with your content.

They could do that, or worse - they could cut your license by claiming wrongthink on your part, meaning you can't make it anymore and they can AND you have no recourse.