Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 10, 2023, 12:34:34 PM

Quote from: Chainsaw on January 10, 2023, 12:32:13 PM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 10, 2023, 12:18:50 PM

Quote from: Chainsaw on January 10, 2023, 11:40:07 AM
Curious, why do you say ESG the heart of this?

ESG is a metric, if not the primary metric, for stock value these days. I won't comment on that any further because I'm not an economics guy.

I haved advised institutional investors (mutual funds, pension funds, hedge funds, etc) via my job on the trading floor of a major investment bank for 20 years. In my experience, it's barely a top ten consideration. YMMV.

I hope you're correct and I'm wrong.

Given WOTCs recent past actions, I tend to think I am right... or at least it's about public perception if not outright stock value.

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a corporate desire to seem "ESG" among all companies, but actual investors pulling the trigger never ask me about it. They want fundamentals on growth, margin, cash flow, M&A, share repo, leverage etc

Quote from: Chainsaw on January 10, 2023, 11:40:07 AM
Curious, why do you say ESG the heart of this?

Knowing how more and more stuff is becoming "problematic" to the woke, this this contract is a disaster in the making for anyone who signs on to it.

Quote from: Leaked OGL Draft
Comments:
We know this may come off strong, but this is important: If You attempt to use the OGL as a basis to release blatantly
racist, sexist, homophobic, trans-phobic, bigoted or otherwise discriminatory content, or do anything We think triggers
these provisions, Your content is no longer licensed. To be clear, We want to, and will always, support creators who are
using the OGL to help them explore sensitive subjects in a positive manner, but We will not tolerate materials We
consider to be in any way counter to the spirit of D&D. Additionally, You waive any right to sue over Our decision on
these issues. We're aware that, if We somehow stretch Our decision of what is or is not objectionable under these
clauses too far, We will receive community pushback and bad PR, and We're more than open to being convinced that
We made a wrong decision. But nobody gets to use the threat of a lawsuit as part of an attempt to convince Us.

Quote from: Effete on January 10, 2023, 01:07:17 PM

Quote from: Semaj Khan on January 10, 2023, 12:18:50 PM
Prediction (and I hope I'm wrong): at least Paizo, and probably other larger 3PP like FGG will sign onto 1.1. They'll have to do it.

Nope. Paizo and the other big 3pp who have way too much invested in the old OGL will cut backroom contracts that won't use the OGL at all. The more I read the leaked OGL, the more I agree that it's a poison pill. Read the section about Other Products. WotC straight up says they will take your content and use it however they damn well please, without paying you a red cent. There is no longer any "Product Identity" to secure your IP ; it's Their Content and Your Content, and all of Your Content becomes part of the upstream license.

Here's the other thing... Licensed Content only applies to the SRDv5.1.
The entire 3.5 SRD is now classified as Unlicensed Content, meaning Paizo would NEED to strike a custom agreement if they want to continue using the content and selling old books.

The entire thing is designed to put the smaller companies under their thumb until they "level up" to Expert Tier and pay WotC enough royalties to earn a custom contract. Calling this an "Open Gaming" license is a farce. It's highly restrictive and designed to establish a boy's club where only those loyal to WotC can get deals that don't fuck them sideways.

All excellent points. Thank you.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 12:33:34 PM
I mean, we're still waiting on Critical Role I guess, but at this point it looks like damnably near every major third party creator is saying "sayonara" to the OGL and support for D&D.

Critical Role and others could just as easily give the finger to WotC by switching to playing another RPG.
If these streaming games are as popular with new players as some say, whatever they play might become competitive with D&D.

Just noticed this in their introduction...

QuoteA lot has changed over the last half century, including the rise of the internet, apps, Web 3, and even virtual TTRPGs.

LOL

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 10, 2023, 07:58:09 AM

Quote from: Jaeger on January 09, 2023, 06:07:03 PM
These threads really need to be consolidated.

Yeah, I don't get why everyone needs to start a need thread to post their reaction to this shitshow, bring new info or ask questions directly related to this.

Let the threads go where they go. Having one giant mega-thread means we'd have to read one giant 500 page thread, and could cause people to forget what they read (due to thread size).

Quote from: DocJones on January 10, 2023, 01:34:24 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 12:33:34 PM
I mean, we're still waiting on Critical Role I guess, but at this point it looks like damnably near every major third party creator is saying "sayonara" to the OGL and support for D&D.

Critical Role and others could just as easily give the finger to WotC by switching to playing another RPG.
If these streaming games are as popular with new players as some say, whatever they play might become competitive with D&D.

If Hasbro/WotC hasn't cut a deal already with CR, then they truly are a pack of phenomenal idiots.

Quote from: DocJones on January 10, 2023, 01:34:24 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 12:33:34 PM
I mean, we're still waiting on Critical Role I guess, but at this point it looks like damnably near every major third party creator is saying "sayonara" to the OGL and support for D&D.

Critical Role and others could just as easily give the finger to WotC by switching to playing another RPG.
If these streaming games are as popular with new players as some say, whatever they play might become competitive with D&D.

I've never actually watched Critical Role, but I'm familiar with it. I'm curious though, is it popular BECAUSE of 5e, or because it's supposedly entertaining to watch? I always hear how Mercer's overly-dramatic performances set a high expectation for new GMs and a skewed view of an actual game, but how many subscribers actually play the game?

Anyway, I guess what I'm really asking is if CR simply starts playing something else, how much of their fan base will stick around? Legitimate question, not rhetorical. I honestly don't know the answer to that.

Quote from: Effete on January 10, 2023, 02:07:04 PM

Quote from: DocJones on January 10, 2023, 01:34:24 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 12:33:34 PM
I mean, we're still waiting on Critical Role I guess, but at this point it looks like damnably near every major third party creator is saying "sayonara" to the OGL and support for D&D.

Critical Role and others could just as easily give the finger to WotC by switching to playing another RPG.
If these streaming games are as popular with new players as some say, whatever they play might become competitive with D&D.

I've never actually watched Critical Role, but I'm familiar with it. I'm curious though, is it popular BECAUSE of 5e, or because it's supposedly entertaining to watch? I always hear how Mercer's overly-dramatic performances set a high expectation for new GMs and a skewed view of an actual game, but how many subscribers actually play the game?

Anyway, I guess what I'm really asking is if CR simply starts playing something else, how much of their fan base will stick around? Legitimate question, not rhetorical. I honestly don't know the answer to that.

people watch it to be entertained not to learn how to play D&D.  Learning to play is what folks do AFTER they've watched CR. 

That would be amazing blow-back if Critical Role changed games and the audience numbers stayed the same or increased. It might actually be time for them to release their own game named after the tv show, and see if it gets traction.

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 10, 2023, 02:47:08 PM
That would be amazing blow-back if Critical Role changed games and the audience numbers stayed the same or increased. It might actually be time for them to release their own game named after the tv show, and see if it gets traction.

Rumor has it that they may go Pathfinder.

Well, AFAIK, Kobold Press is the first to raise their fist at the changes, via their "Project Black Flag"

• This  means Kobold Press will release its current Kickstarter projects as   planned, including Campaign Builder: Cities & Towns (already printed  and on its way to backers this winter).
• In  particular, Deep Magic Volume 2 will remain fully compatible with the 5E rules. We are working with our VTT partners to maintain support for digital platforms.
• As we look ahead, it becomes even more important for our actions to represent our values. While we wait to see what the future holds, we are moving forward with clear-eyed work on a new Core Fantasy tabletop ruleset: available, open, and subscription-free for those who love it—Code Name: Project Black Flag.

Got these from Kobold Press website, and Twitter.

Quote from: WeatherDave on January 10, 2023, 03:17:04 PM
Well, AFAIK, Kobold Press is the first to raise their fist at the changes, via their "Project Black Flag"

• This  means Kobold Press will release its current Kickstarter projects as   planned, including Campaign Builder: Cities & Towns (already printed  and on its way to backers this winter).
• In  particular, Deep Magic Volume 2 will remain fully compatible with the 5E rules. We are working with our VTT partners to maintain support for digital platforms.
• As we look ahead, it becomes even more important for our actions to represent our values. While we wait to see what the future holds, we are moving forward with clear-eyed work on a new Core Fantasy tabletop ruleset: available, open, and subscription-free for those who love it—Code Name: Project Black Flag.

Got these from Kobold Press website, and Twitter.

From The Guide to Woke Companies:

Yellow
"Kobold Press Chapter 2 of "Guide to Gamemastering" has a whole section telling the reader to "check your privilege" and the whole thing kind of reads like a gender studies course or something. Actively disparages cis white males. Also known to charge writers for the chance to write for them, and then prides themselves on paying them a penny per word. However the book is an anthology from various authors and freelancers, so maybe being this even handed in a book is a good thing? Placed here because of their motivation for including such a scolding article is a bit weird."

I'll wait and see what exactly is their black flag project and what license do they use, I'm disinclined to give them money just because of past actions tho.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on January 10, 2023, 01:49:52 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 10, 2023, 07:58:09 AM

Quote from: Jaeger on January 09, 2023, 06:07:03 PM
These threads really need to be consolidated.

Yeah, I don't get why everyone needs to start a need thread to post their reaction to this shitshow, bring new info or ask questions directly related to this.

Let the threads go where they go. Having one giant mega-thread means we'd have to read one giant 500 page thread, and could cause people to forget what they read (due to thread size).

Similar could be said about having around a dozen different threads dealing with essentially the same topic. "Where did I last post? On which thread did I saw that last bit of info drop?" There's even multiple threads dealing with OSR games that use the OGL, and then a separate thread asking which games in general (not just the exalted OSR) use the OGL. Are multiple threads asking about games using the OGL necessary?

---

Anyways, RE: CR, this is a golden opportunity for them to feature games other than D&D on their streams. I've heard that Matt Mercer may have his own game in the back burner and this could be the chance for him to promote his own game and leave D&D in the dust. If that's the case, I wish him the best of luck, cuz if anyone could help liberate the hobby from the D&D/WotC stranglehold it's CR.

They're one of the few people with enough mass appeal to bring other RPGs to the masses. But the silence is deafening. I really hope they don't sell out, cuz the future is bleak, but with great opportunity.

This latest move by WotC is so over the top 3pps everywhere will be forced to act. The terms they're setting up would make it impossible for anyone to do well selling OGL game without going under and becoming indebted to WotC in the process. I already sorta knew this intuitively, but seeing it in black and white really brings it home...

https://twitter.com/HoundsongGames/status/1612634286930251777?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1612634286930251777%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Quote from: blackstone on January 10, 2023, 03:06:20 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 10, 2023, 02:47:08 PM
That would be amazing blow-back if Critical Role changed games and the audience numbers stayed the same or increased. It might actually be time for them to release their own game named after the tv show, and see if it gets traction.

Rumor has it that they may go Pathfinder.

Didn't they start on PF?