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WOTC, SRD, Gettin' Lawyerly

Started by Daddy Warpig, January 02, 2023, 03:02:46 PM

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jeff37923

#210
January 08, 2023, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2023, 06:08:08 PM
Someone pointed out an interesting bit.

Tabletop RPGs aren't the only thing that uses OGL. Some video game adaptations do as well.

Including Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

Go ahead, WotC. Poke the fucking Mouse. I fucking dare you.

Hasbro vs Disney, now that would be a kaiju battle if ever there was one.
"Meh."

S'mon

#211
January 08, 2023, 06:31:55 PM
Quote from: WeatherDave on January 08, 2023, 02:44:34 PM
  • There are plenty of other countries where WoTC's tactics of nuclear lawfare simply won't work. A number of English lawyers are quite convinced of this, and I'd suspect a lot of EU countries have similar laws. Not sure about the Australians or other countries though.

Australia is pretty similar to England afaik, being derived from early 20th century English legal culture. Pemerton is Australian & he's not indicated otherwise. The USA is a bit of an outlier.
Shadowdark Wilderlands (Fridays 2pm UK/9am EST)  https://smons.blogspot.com/2024/08/shadowdark.html
Open table game on Roll20, PM me to join! Current Start Level: 1

GeekyBugle

#212
January 08, 2023, 06:42:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on January 08, 2023, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2023, 06:08:08 PM
Someone pointed out an interesting bit.

Tabletop RPGs aren't the only thing that uses OGL. Some video game adaptations do as well.

Including Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

Go ahead, WotC. Poke the fucking Mouse. I fucking dare you.

Hasbro vs Disney, now that would be a kaiju battle if ever there was one.

"Let them fight!"

I would be rotting for the total destruction of both.

But my money would be on them joining forces against the plebs instead of killing each other... Saddly.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Armchair Gamer

#213
January 08, 2023, 07:05:16 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2023, 06:08:08 PM
Someone pointed out an interesting bit.

Tabletop RPGs aren't the only thing that uses OGL. Some video game adaptations do as well.

Including Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

Go ahead, WotC. Poke the fucking Mouse. I fucking dare you.

    I don't think so--I think they used the d20 SWRPG as a baseline, and I believe copyright to that rests with Lucasfilm. No OGL involved.

jeff37923

#214
January 08, 2023, 07:49:14 PM
....

"Meh."

Ruprecht

#215
January 08, 2023, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 08, 2023, 06:11:08 PM
Which, to me, implied that regardless of my reason for wanting a Creative Commons license that I should give away even the right to credit for my work because that would be better for you.

Do you see how that sequence could be construed as rude and entitled?

If that was not your intent, I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
That was not my intent. I was asking questions to the thread, not specifically in response to any of your comments. I tend to quote at least a snippet of a comment if I'm responding to someone.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

GeekyBugle

#216
January 08, 2023, 07:51:49 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 08, 2023, 07:05:16 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2023, 06:08:08 PM
Someone pointed out an interesting bit.

Tabletop RPGs aren't the only thing that uses OGL. Some video game adaptations do as well.

Including Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

Go ahead, WotC. Poke the fucking Mouse. I fucking dare you.

    I don't think so--I think they used the d20 SWRPG as a baseline, and I believe copyright to that rests with Lucasfilm. No OGL involved.

Well, IF like WotC is pretending, anything created under the OGL now is their property or has to go away, that would taint the SW brand and not just on TTRPG/CRPGs
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

jhkim

#217
January 08, 2023, 08:00:43 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 08, 2023, 07:51:49 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 08, 2023, 07:05:16 PM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 08, 2023, 06:08:08 PM
Tabletop RPGs aren't the only thing that uses OGL. Some video game adaptations do as well.

Including Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

    I don't think so--I think they used the d20 SWRPG as a baseline, and I believe copyright to that rests with Lucasfilm. No OGL involved.

Well, IF like WotC is pretending, anything created under the OGL now is their property or has to go away, that would taint the SW brand and not just on TTRPG/CRPGs

But the Star Wars d20 RPG was originally published by WotC in 2000, and didn't use the OGL. It does use the d20 System, but that's not via the OGL. WotC owns the d20 System and produced the Star Wars RPG as fully closed. Presumably the KotOR game licensed the Star Wars d20 system also via private agreement. The derivation is:

Code Select

(D&D 3rd ed)
     |
     +---(via private licensing)---> Star Wars RPG
     |
     +--------> d20 SRD ---(via OGL)---> third-party d20 OGL products


As far as I know, WotC never produced any commercial products that used the OGL, so none of their products would be affected if the OGL v1.0a were to become invalid.

Chris24601

#218
January 08, 2023, 08:02:56 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on January 08, 2023, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 08, 2023, 06:11:08 PM
Which, to me, implied that regardless of my reason for wanting a Creative Commons license that I should give away even the right to credit for my work because that would be better for you.

Do you see how that sequence could be construed as rude and entitled?

If that was not your intent, I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
That was not my intent. I was asking questions to the thread, not specifically in response to any of your comments. I tend to quote at least a snippet of a comment if I'm responding to someone.
Then please accept my apology.

Ruprecht

#219
January 08, 2023, 08:04:00 PM
No worries. Misunderstandings happen all the time on the internet. I'm just glad it's cleared up.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

Armchair Gamer

#220
January 08, 2023, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: jhkim on January 08, 2023, 08:00:43 PM
As far as I know, WotC never produced any commercial products that used the OGL, so none of their products would be affected if the OGL v1.0a were to become invalid.

There were two--Monster Manual II included a couple OGC monsters at the book, and much of Unearthed Arcana was open content under the OGL. But when the most recent product is old enough to vote ... :)

jhkim

#221
January 08, 2023, 09:08:52 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer on January 08, 2023, 08:15:54 PM
Quote from: jhkim on January 08, 2023, 08:00:43 PM
As far as I know, WotC never produced any commercial products that used the OGL, so none of their products would be affected if the OGL v1.0a were to become invalid.

There were two--Monster Manual II included a couple OGC monsters at the book, and much of Unearthed Arcana was open content under the OGL. But when the most recent product is old enough to vote ... :)

Thanks for the correction, Armchair Gamer. I stand corrected, but I also don't think it would affect WotC at all to drop the PDFs of those two 3E products, which would be required if the OGL v1.0a were invalidated. And the Star Wars RPG material would not be affected at all.

Effete

#222
January 09, 2023, 12:37:47 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 08, 2023, 04:56:09 PM
Well, unles this goes to court and it's settled against Hasbro's decision, the intelligent course of action is to divest your stuff from ALL WotC IP.

Yup. Regardless of which way the court's decision goes, everybody should jump ship and give the OGL the axe. Hasbro/WotC has already played their hand and shown that they are anti-consumer and want to treat their supporters like shit. Doesn't matter of they backpedal, they done fukked up.

GeekyBugle

#223
January 09, 2023, 12:49:40 AM
Quote from: Effete on January 09, 2023, 12:37:47 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 08, 2023, 04:56:09 PM
Well, unles this goes to court and it's settled against Hasbro's decision, the intelligent course of action is to divest your stuff from ALL WotC IP.

Yup. Regardless of which way the court's decision goes, everybody should jump ship and give the OGL the axe. Hasbro/WotC has already played their hand and shown that they are anti-consumer and want to treat their supporters like shit. Doesn't matter of they backpedal, they done fukked up.

Which makes me really GLAD I started changing stuff on my (hopefully) soon to be finished first game to differentiate it from D&D while retaining broad compatibility with the OSR. But I won't even market it as such.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Thor's Nads

#224
January 09, 2023, 05:22:38 AM
Quote from: Ruprecht on January 07, 2023, 11:38:50 AM
If I was Paizo (because they are the biggest competitor) I'd hire Ryan Dancey (because he was involved in the creation of the original OGL) with the job of provoking Wizards to backing off or testing their new interpretation of the OGL. I know Paizo isn't the behemoth they once were but Dancey might take the job for cheap on principle. They might also get crowdfunding/GoFundme from other publishers if WotC tries to drag things out so as to win by having deeper pockets.

Paizo, and any of the large indie publishers are more likely to compromise with Wizards than put up much of a fight. Wizards is going to negotiate separately and individually with each one. Divide and conquer. The rest of the small publishers will have no choice but to quit or go along with the OGL 1.1.

We fans will be the most screwed. The 3rd party publishers had gotten really good at creating fantastic content far beyond the quality of anything WotC has done in years. The party is over.
Gen-Xtra
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