Rules Lawyer had a video showing the wording and apparently if you opt-in anything you create is usable by WotC for perpetuity even if they cancel the license. I assume this means new spells, monsters, classes, etc and not entire products but it could mean literally everything.

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 06, 2023, 10:19:00 AM
Rules Lawyer had a video showing the wording and apparently if you opt-in anything you create is usable by WotC for perpetuity even if they cancel the license. I assume this means new spells, monsters, classes, etc and not entire products but it could mean literally everything.

This kind of thing is basically designed to discourage anyone from using the licence, like the nuChaosium NOGL. What they want is for producers to sign actual contracts with them instead, and lock themselves into the coming WotC VTT walled garden.

It's certainly an interesting strategy. If you want to sell for the "current" D&D, which has traditionally been the most profitable, then they presumably can use the 1.1 to lock you out of creating 1.0a OGL content(OSR, 5E clones, etc). Seems like they're trying to create a GSL that prevents a new Paizo/Pathfinder situation.

For any RPG publishers barely making it while selling 5E content today, it'll be a tough call. I think a lot of them will just move on with One D&D and hope Hasbro doesn't alter the terms of the deal further.

So, is this meant to essentially destroy all the competition? It's such an odd situation to try and destroy 20+ years of publishers. I get why they are trying to do it. They just went full totalitarian. What are they going to do? Force Paizo to stop making Pathfinder? Send Pundit a C&D?

Essentially "join us or die". And on that end, it seemed like if One D&D were to fail, it would keep publishers from picking up the pieces. If they are trying to destroy the old OGL, then this would ensure no one can create a 5E retro clone type thing while One D&D sinks beneath the waves. They really want to make sure they are the only D&D style game out there.

Quote from: World_Warrior on January 06, 2023, 12:32:51 PM
So, is this meant to essentially destroy all the competition? It's such an odd situation to try and destroy 20+ years of publishers. I get why they are trying to do it. They just went full totalitarian. What are they going to do? Force Paizo to stop making Pathfinder? Send Pundit a C&D?

Essentially "join us or die". And on that end, it seemed like if One D&D were to fail, it would keep publishers from picking up the pieces. If they are trying to destroy the old OGL, then this would ensure no one can create a 5E retro clone type thing while One D&D sinks beneath the waves. They really want to make sure they are the only D&D style game out there.

Yes.  All of that.  In one fell swoop, they are attacking all of their new school and old school competition.

A lot of crying wolf going on here. The fact is that Hasbro/WotC cannot revoke the 1.0a version of the OGL. Any judge worth the robe would recognize the permanency of the licence. And even if some activist judge did allow the rescindment to go through, any 1.0a licence holder can file an appeal and throw it to a higher court, where (hopefully) a better educated judge will overturn the decision.

What Hasbro CAN do is write a new version (i.e. 1.1), in which case there would be two "authorized" versions of the license. WotC can limit their new content to only v1.1, requiring anyone who wants to use it to comply with v1.1, but anything released under 1.0a would be "locked in" to that version of the license. A similar thing exists in building code know as the "Grandfather Clause." Basically, if your house has out-of-code framing or wiring, etc., the municipality cannot force you to change it (barring safety issues) as long as it WAS up to code when it was installed.

Another thing, at least in the United States, is a private person or entity cannot be forced into contract by another private person or entity. Hasbro cannot "force" someone to update 1.0a to 1.1 if they licensee doesn't want to. As mentioned above, 1.0a will exist in perpetuity, but assuming courthouse shennanigans are afoot and the status of 1.0a is placed in limbo, the only thing that would happen to a licensee is being non-compliant with 1.1. They cannot be forced to abide by the terms.

So all questions about what would happen to Paizoo or Mongoose or even Savage Pathfinder is easily answered with one word: Nothing. Unless, of course, they choose to update to v1.1, in which case WotC will probably steal their content and 20% of their profits.

Quote from: Effete on January 06, 2023, 04:30:29 PM
A lot of crying wolf going on here. The fact is that Hasbro/WotC cannot revoke the 1.0a version of the OGL. Any judge worth the robe would recognize the permanency of the licence. And even if some activist judge did allow the rescindment to go through, any 1.0a licence holder can file an appeal and throw it to a higher court, where (hopefully) a better educated judge will overturn the decision.

What Hasbro CAN do is write a new version (i.e. 1.1), in which case there would be two "authorized" versions of the license. WotC can limit their new content to only v1.1, requiring anyone who wants to use it to comply with v1.1, but anything released under 1.0a would be "locked in" to that version of the license. A similar thing exists in building code know as the "Grandfather Clause." Basically, if your house has out-of-code framing or wiring, etc., the municipality cannot force you to change it (barring safety issues) as long as it WAS up to code when it was installed.

Another thing, at least in the United States, is a private person or entity cannot be forced into contract by another private person or entity. Hasbro cannot "force" someone to update 1.0a to 1.1 if they licensee doesn't want to. As mentioned above, 1.0a will exist in perpetuity, but assuming courthouse shennanigans are afoot and the status of 1.0a is placed in limbo, the only thing that would happen to a licensee is being non-compliant with 1.1. They cannot be forced to abide by the terms.

The other thing Hasbro CAN do is try to revoke OGL 1.0a and drown anyone fighting them with paper. It might not matter what a judge thinks if Hasbro bankrupts you with lawyers before you get to a judgment.

Hell, if you fear Hasbro can do that it changes your likelihood to fight. I think legal at Hasbro is betting on that fear.

The *only* answer to Hasbro is to just stop producing D&D content, negotiate licenses with every single one of the competitors with great public fanfare, and choke them off from any future content.

Their own content is for shit and their whole track record with digital anything has always been a failure.

Engage in guerrilla tactics with these fucks.

Quote from: 3catcircus on January 06, 2023, 05:31:04 PM
The *only* answer to Hasbro is to just stop producing D&D content, negotiate licenses with every single one of the competitors with great public fanfare, and choke them off from any future content.

Their own content is for shit and their whole track record with digital anything has always been a failure.

Engage in guerrilla tactics with these fucks.

It's hard to say if that would work.  Spelljammer was a shot against the bow and they fired Winninger for it, I'm assuming that was his last chance.  They might actually pay attention to quality control.  Its just frankly too hard to tell with Hasbro how much they care about profits vs their ESG score.  If they go for ESG score over profit they'll be dead in a decade.  They can't do both.

Identify the current RPG that is the most immune to the OGLs and SRDs, and then encourage all of the creators to claim compatibility with that RPG.  The creators need to form a united front, and oppose WOTC together.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 06, 2023, 05:37:37 PM
Identify the current RPG that is the most immune to the OGLs and SRDs, and then encourage all of the creators to claim compatibility with that RPG.  The creators need to form a united front, and oppose WOTC together.

3DT+ is either public domain or CC By, it's in portuguese and would need translation/adaptation to the new dice mechanics (it uses 3d6).

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 06, 2023, 04:48:28 PM
The other thing Hasbro CAN do is try to revoke OGL 1.0a and drown anyone fighting them with paper. It might not matter what a judge thinks if Hasbro bankrupts you with lawyers before you get to a judgment.

Hell, if you fear Hasbro can do that it changes your likelihood to fight. I think legal at Hasbro is betting on that fear.

That's only if things go to litigation. *If* a judge rules that 1.0a can be revoked, an appeal to get it overturned would cost about $4-600 bucks and you wouldn't even need to show up to court. Get a dozen or so complaintants to sign onto the appeal and split the cost. Or crowdfund it.

It seems like Hasbro and their crooked lawyers are banking on the ambiguity of the word "authorized" in clause #9 to support their case. That word does not mean Wizards can revoke the license, though, it just means that Joe Schmoe down the road can't write a version 1.0x and expect it to be legally binding.

Hasbro/WotC have very little chance of erasing 1.0a completely. They can make it virtually obsolete by requiring all future products to use 1.1, but from what I know of that version (I've not read the entire thing yet) only morons would opt-into it.

All that being said, a separate license for the OSR, with game terms divorced from anything WotC can claim as IP, is a great idea. It would require a lot of collaboration and different publishers agreeing on what terms should be used, but anything that gives the finger to Hasbro/WotC is a good thing.

Quote from: 3catcircus on January 06, 2023, 05:31:04 PM
The *only* answer to Hasbro is to just stop producing D&D content, negotiate licenses with every single one of the competitors with great public fanfare, and choke them off from any future content.

Their own content is for shit and their whole track record with digital anything has always been a failure.

Engage in guerrilla tactics with these fucks.

I agree with this sentiment 100%. Unfortunately, there are enough clapping seals and Critical Roll wannabes to keep Hasbro/WotC chugging along.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on January 06, 2023, 05:35:45 PM

Quote from: 3catcircus on January 06, 2023, 05:31:04 PM
The *only* answer to Hasbro is to just stop producing D&D content, negotiate licenses with every single one of the competitors with great public fanfare, and choke them off from any future content.

Their own content is for shit and their whole track record with digital anything has always been a failure.

Engage in guerrilla tactics with these fucks.

It's hard to say if that would work.  Spelljammer was a shot against the bow and they fired Winninger for it, I'm assuming that was his last chance.  They might actually pay attention to quality control.  Its just frankly too hard to tell with Hasbro how much they care about profits vs their ESG score.  If they go for ESG score over profit they'll be dead in a decade.  They can't do both.

I would just say this: the only reason we ever got to 4.0 was because of 3PP content for 3.0/3.5. WotC can not produce the *quantity* of content of sufficient *quality* needed to sustain themselves.

There are 162 products for 5e published by WotC on DMs Guild. T

here are over 32000 products for 5e published by the DMs Guild Community. Let's assume 10% of them are actually driving players and DMs to continue to buy and play.

That is **95%** of the 5e content being 3PP.

No one understands the compound interest effect of all these small 3PP until they stop providing content - but it needs to be en masse and spearheaded by at least one of the larger 3PP.