"We are altering the deal. Pray We don't alter it any further."

WOTC trying to REVOKE THE OGL for D&D (Lawyer-gamer shares leaked language and comments on it)

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 04, 2023, 10:39:56 PM
"We are altering the deal. Pray We don't alter it any further."

WOTC trying to REVOKE THE OGL for D&D (Lawyer-gamer shares leaked language and comments on it)

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, toys do not move by themselves, but...

I just can't see this working. The understanding we've all had this whole time of the "authorized version" is that you can always update to a new version of the license, but only WoTC gets to release new versions.

The idea that "authorization" is some bit WoTC can twiddle at will makes an absolute mockery of the documented intention of the license.

Furthermore, there are works released under the OGL that aren't derived from any copyrighted material by WOTC; is WOTC really claiming they can unilaterally change the terms of the license for those works and force people to use OGL 1.1 for those works? Considering the new royalty provisions in 1.1 that will be... interesting.

.

I gave myself a time horizon of 5 years for my prediction, and it came true in 2 days.

What can I say, it's a gift.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 04, 2023, 10:39:56 PM
"We are altering the deal. Pray We don't alter it any further."

WOTC trying to REVOKE THE OGL for D&D (Lawyer-gamer shares leaked language and comments on it)

So, yeah.

Hasbro plans to go to court to revoke the OGL1.0a (it is no longer "authorized" and while the old license was perpetual it was not "irrevocable") and demand everyone operating under it (even it it's not derived from their material) must update to OGL1.1 which, in turn, grants THEM a perpetual irrevocable royalty free license to use anything you created as they wish.

I'll also note that, as worded, it doesn't matter if your work was derived from WotC's SRDs or not, just the use of the OGL1.0 or 1.0a is enough for them to capture your content in their 1.1 regulatory net if their play to de-"authorize" the prior versions stands.

I'll say it now. Crowdfunded Class Action suit against WotC to clarify provision 9 is going to be needed, perhaps even preemptively, because they are planning on coming for anything and everything ever made under any version of the OGL to claim it as perpetually irrevocably and royalty-free theirs.

You will own nothing and be happy (or else).

Crowd funded hostile takeover of Hasbro in 1.. 2... 3... 

Cavet; I am not a lawyer, but I did go look up terms and apparently legally "perpetual" without "irrevocable" just means "until the licensor terminates the license" vs. "this license is good for a set term."

So, yeah, if this leak is correct, get your affairs in order people.* Hasbro intends to claim every last thing the OGL ever touched is subject to 1.1, which not only gives them free perpetual and irrevocable use of it, but also allows them to terminate your use of it after 30 days for any reason they care to define (like insufficient wokeness).

Maybe I'm paranoid and/or maybe they won't come for the smaller fish first, but this is all about annihilating it's main competition ahead of launching OneD&D and their microtransaction laden VTT.

* specifically, if your material doesn't rely primarily upon WotC SRD specific lore elements, now is the time to a "second edition" to change some terms/expressions and drop the OGL from your content.

For the cooperative minded, I'd be looking at creating a replacement for the OGL... like a Free System License (FSL) that perhaps removes/alters section 7 and adds "irrevocable" to the terms of the license and perhaps a separate OSR-based SRD that has been sufficiently rewritten/stripped of any WotC specific IP as to allow it to stand clear of Hasbro's hungry maw.

Quote from: Daddy Warpig on January 05, 2023, 03:45:32 AM
I gave myself a time horizon of 5 years for my prediction, and it came true in 2 days.

What can I say, it's a gift.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 04, 2023, 10:39:56 PM
"We are altering the deal. Pray We don't alter it any further."

WOTC trying to REVOKE THE OGL for D&D (Lawyer-gamer shares leaked language and comments on it)

I wanna take you to Vegas and see if it's actually possible to beat the house. Holy shit.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 05, 2023, 06:07:47 AM
Cavet; I am not a lawyer, but I did go look up terms and apparently legally "perpetual" without "irrevocable" just means "until the licensor terminates the license" vs. "this license is good for a set term."

So, yeah, if this leak is correct, get your affairs in order people.* Hasbro intends to claim every last thing the OGL ever touched is subject to 1.1, which not only gives them free perpetual and irrevocable use of it, but also allows them to terminate your use of it after 30 days for any reason they care to define (like insufficient wokeness).

Maybe I'm paranoid and/or maybe they won't come for the smaller fish first, but this is all about annihilating it's main competition ahead of launching OneD&D and their microtransaction laden VTT.

* specifically, if your material doesn't rely primarily upon WotC SRD specific lore elements, now is the time to a "second edition" to change some terms/expressions and drop the OGL from your content.

For the cooperative minded, I'd be looking at creating a replacement for the OGL... like a Free System License (FSL) that perhaps removes/alters section 7 and adds "irrevocable" to the terms of the license and perhaps a separate OSR-based SRD that has been sufficiently rewritten/stripped of any WotC specific IP as to allow it to stand clear of Hasbro's hungry maw.

That's about the safest option at this point. Wouldn't surprise me if WOTC began suing anyone that did so, though. Reminds me of how people speak about 90's TSR and their lawsuits against small publishers.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 04, 2023, 10:39:56 PM
"We are altering the deal. Pray We don't alter it any further."

WOTC trying to REVOKE THE OGL for D&D (Lawyer-gamer shares leaked language and comments on it)

I'm really hoping this leaked language isn't true. WOTC already accounts for over 50% of the market for tabletop RPG's. If they are planning to revoke the old OGL, this puts most of their competition out of business, and really puts the OSR in a bad place.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 05, 2023, 05:19:35 AM
So, yeah.

Hasbro plans to go to court to revoke the OGL1.0a (it is no longer "authorized" and while the old license was perpetual it was not "irrevocable") and demand everyone operating under it (even it it's not derived from their material) must update to OGL1.1 which, in turn, grants THEM a perpetual irrevocable royalty free license to use anything you created as they wish.

I'll also note that, as worded, it doesn't matter if your work was derived from WotC's SRDs or not, just the use of the OGL1.0 or 1.0a is enough for them to capture your content in their 1.1 regulatory net if their play to de-"authorize" the prior versions stands.

I'll say it now. Crowdfunded Class Action suit against WotC to clarify provision 9 is going to be needed, perhaps even preemptively, because they are planning on coming for anything and everything ever made under any version of the OGL to claim it as perpetually irrevocably and royalty-free theirs.

You will own nothing and be happy (or else).

This apparent new strategy of theirs is the legal equivalent of all-out nuclear war. I don't think they'd win in court, but even if they did they'd leave an irradiated wasteland behind. Either way, no sane third party publisher would use a license from WoTC-Hasbro ever again. More than that though, the entire non-WoTC RPG industry would be crippled.

Realistically, I don't see "This licence means something completely different from what we told you it meant, including in our contemporary FAQ" as being at all likely to work. If it goes to court every Third Party publisher will have a strong - existential - interest in seeing the other side properly represented.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on January 05, 2023, 08:01:06 AM

Quote from: Daddy Warpig on January 05, 2023, 03:45:32 AM
I gave myself a time horizon of 5 years for my prediction, and it came true in 2 days.

What can I say, it's a gift.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 04, 2023, 10:39:56 PM
"We are altering the deal. Pray We don't alter it any further."

WOTC trying to REVOKE THE OGL for D&D (Lawyer-gamer shares leaked language and comments on it)

I wanna take you to Vegas and see if it's actually possible to beat the house. Holy shit.

To be fair, for anyone who understands how corpos think this wasn't ready hard. I suggested the same thing back on Christmas...

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 25, 2022, 01:21:00 PM
I dumped the OGL (I'll use a creative commons license instead) from my project entirely as I have sufficiently different mechanics that my only real concern was sharing some game terms and have since renamed many of those just in case. I think re-examining whether you actually NEED even the OGL1.0a might be worth it for other publishers as I think a desperate enough WotC might go after it and, as I have been reminded in the past, the validity of your claim is far less important than having the money to litigate.

... because Corpos gonna Corpo.

Short version, Hasbro told us exactly what it wanted D&D to be with the 4E GSL, but got blindsided by the OGL and not being able to deliver on digital content... so this time they're doing the exact same thing, but they're going after the OGL first, before they even launch to lock down any possible competition before their products even hit the shelves.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 05, 2023, 06:07:47 AM
Cavet; I am not a lawyer, but I did go look up terms and apparently legally "perpetual" without "irrevocable" just means "until the licensor terminates the license" vs. "this license is good for a set term."

It can be taken to mean either 'never ending' or 'indefinite' depending on the context - one brief discussion at https://www.keystonelaw.com/keynotes/termination-of-intellectual-property-licences-are-you-at-risk

I think in this context a judge would most likely rule the obvious apparent intent was not to make the licence revocable at WoTC's option.

If this "leaked" document turns out to be true, I think the safest bet for any third party publisher is to never use the OGL ever again, even if WotC ultimately doesn't go through with it. The fact that they're even considering such an absurdly overreaching license alone should scare tha hell out of anyone ever using their licenses. EVER!

The brass cojones on these fucking guys. Jeesh!

Quote from: S'mon on January 05, 2023, 08:20:24 AM
This apparent new strategy of theirs is the legal equivalent of all-out nuclear war. I don't think they'd win in court, but even if they did they'd leave an irradiated wasteland behind. Either way, no sane third party publisher would use a license from WoTC-Hasbro ever again. More than that though, the entire non-WoTC RPG industry would be crippled.

And?

Do you think Hasbro cares an iota about the state of the non-WotC RPG industry? They would be perfectly happy if it all went bankrupt tomorrow. They are not your friends, they are corporate parasites whose duty is to maximize their short term profits at all costs.

Similarly, whether it can win in an actual court of law is irrelevant. With lawfare the process is the punishment. More simply, "at $400/hour, how long can you afford to have the case draw out as Hasbro's lawyers swamp yours with thousands of hours of pre-trial motions?"

That's what we're talking here. They have their in-house lawyers on a salary who can easily swamp you with half a million dollars in legal fees before you even get to court. Even if you win, you lose in an industry this small.

Short of a crowdfunded class action to get the likely millions it would take to reach a courtroom, WotC plans on just using it 800lb. gorilla status to make you comply.

Rendering your existing OGL material defunct (i.e. non-OGL edition with sufficient nomenclature changes from traditional D&D terms to muddy things) ahead of time so the license doesn't have to be updated to 1.1 (by which WotC claims perpetual irrevocable free use of everything produced) is about the only way I see around it that doesn't require some lawyers willing to do a lot of pro bono work or the rest of the industry uniting against Hasbro.

Once you're out of the OGL window there's a lot more recognized case law to protect you and make it difficult for them to lawfare you.

Again, maybe I'm being paranoid, but if this leak is accurate Hasbro is planning on trying to kill the OGL1.0 and force everyone to either go onto the 1.1 travesty or go out of business unless they have the funds to withstand their lawfare legions.