Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on January 12, 2023, 06:19:03 PM
The part in bold makes me laugh.

Hasbro just nuked the entire OGL TTRPG industry, with implied threats of weaponized lawfare used against content creators.....and with the additional unspoken implication that they might also use highly weaponized deplatforming tactics even against ordinary normies posting D&D content on their shitty blogs.

People will not forget or move on, because they can't. Who would be dumb enough to trust Hasbro now? Nobody with three or more functional brain cells would use their shitty closed OGL 1.1. This clusterfuck affects everything in the 3rd party publisher OGL industry, and probably has huge unknown ramifications for all open source material in the computer gaming industry, and we still don't know how this will affect non-OGL TTRPG gamers and companies. Hasbro's current behavior indicates that it's very likely that they will attempt to engage in subtle weaponized deplatforming tactics against all non-OGL games on Kickstarter, DriveThruRPG, IndieGoGo....and possibly even on YouTube and Facebook.

Essentially, Hasbro just (unofficially) declared war against the entire gaming industry and hobby.

Hasbro's ruthless (and hilariously stupid) attack against both TTRPG content creators and gamers is the biggest news in the tabletop gaming industry in the past 23 years. They cannot wait this out, but they will foolishly try. It's not even just the fact that these people are scheming and evil that makes this situation so ridiculous, but it's also obvious that they don't understand TTRPGs.....nor do they really understand the hobby and industry surrounding it. Hasbro just made an enormous tactical mistake that they will not fix, and I'm glad.......because this is how a monopoly dies.

Please.  The people WotC declared war on, basically, the subset of OSR publishers that use the OGL, Paizo, and people putting out content for 5E. Not "gamers". "Gamers", as in the average rank-and-file dice slinger, are fickle sheep who, I promise you, will forget this in a few weeks or months, or won't care to begin with. They only care right now, the ones that do, because that's the current zeitgeist within the community. And people who don't primarily exist within the OGL ecosystem either as gamers or publishers don't really care anyways.

And really, monopoly? Look, I'm no fan of WotC. Not by a longshot. I haven't given them a dime since before 4E dropped. But to the extent they are a monopoly, it's on their own IP. Which... like it or not... is fair. But they certainly don't have a monopoly on the RPG market.

This sucks, but tone down the hyperbolic raving, please?

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on January 12, 2023, 06:19:03 PM
Hasbro just nuked the entire OGL TTRPG industry, with implied threats of weaponized lawfare used against content creators.....and with the additional unspoken implication that they might also use highly weaponized deplatforming tactics even against ordinary normies posting D&D content on their shitty blogs.

People will not forget or move on, because they can't. Who would be dumb enough to trust Hasbro now? Nobody with three or more functional brain cells would use their shitty closed OGL 1.1. This clusterfuck affects everything in the 3rd party publisher OGL industry, and probably has huge unknown ramifications for all open source material in the computer gaming industry, and we still don't know how this will affect non-OGL TTRPG gamers and companies. Hasbro's current behavior indicates that it's very likely that they will attempt to engage in subtle weaponized deplatforming tactics against all non-OGL games on Kickstarter, DriveThruRPG, IndieGoGo....and possibly even on YouTube and Facebook.

Essentially, Hasbro just (unofficially) declared war against the entire gaming industry and hobby.

Hasbro's ruthless (and hilariously stupid) attack against both TTRPG content creators and gamers is the biggest news in the tabletop gaming industry in the past 23 years. They cannot wait this out, but they will foolishly try. It's not even just the fact that these people are scheming and evil that makes this situation so ridiculous, but it's also obvious that they don't understand TTRPGs.....nor do they really understand the hobby and industry surrounding it. Hasbro just made an enormous tactical mistake that they will not fix, and I'm glad.......because this is how a monopoly dies.

I have to pretty much agree with you on that! WoTC just brought nuclear fire down on their own position. Many others will be burned, but I think they're going to be incinerated.

Quote from: Bruwulf on January 12, 2023, 06:30:49 PM
Please.  The people WotC declared war on, basically, the subset of OSR publishers that use the OGL, Paizo, and people putting out content for 5E. Not "gamers". "Gamers" are fickle sheep who, I promise you, will forget this in a few weeks or months, or won't care to begin with. They only care right now, the ones that do, because that's the current zeitgeist within the community. And people who don't primarily exist within the OGL ecosystem either as gamers or publishers don't really care anyways.

WoTC hope you are right! Certainly the white hot rage will die down eventually. But have you seen ANY social media? It's EVERYWHERE. From OSR grognards to Ginny Di cosplayers, EVERYONE is furious. This 'subset' covers everyone on social media with any interest in D&D.

Quote from: S'mon on January 12, 2023, 06:33:54 PM
WoTC hope you are right! Certainly the white hot rage will die down eventually. But have you seen ANY social media? It's EVERYWHERE. From OSR grognards to Ginny Di cosplayers, EVERYONE is furious. This 'subset' covers everyone on social media with any interest in D&D.

And if anything does sway WotC, it might be the influencer backlash. It could happen. I'm just not holding my breath. I've been in several communities where "OMG, THIS IS IT, THEY PISSED TOO MANY PEOPLE OFF, THIS IS THE END FOR THEM!!!" outrages flared up, lasted at most a month or two, and then... people went back to playing their games or consuming their merch or whatever was at issue.

Paizo just announced their intention to legally contest any attempt from WotC to deauthorize the old OGL and make their own open license, along with several other publishers already on board.  With or without WotC backpedaling at this point, the face of RPGs is going to change.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v

Quote from: S'mon on January 12, 2023, 06:33:54 PM

Quote from: Bruwulf on January 12, 2023, 06:30:49 PM
Please.  The people WotC declared war on, basically, the subset of OSR publishers that use the OGL, Paizo, and people putting out content for 5E. Not "gamers". "Gamers" are fickle sheep who, I promise you, will forget this in a few weeks or months, or won't care to begin with. They only care right now, the ones that do, because that's the current zeitgeist within the community. And people who don't primarily exist within the OGL ecosystem either as gamers or publishers don't really care anyways.

WoTC hope you are right! Certainly the white hot rage will die down eventually. But have you seen ANY social media? It's EVERYWHERE. From OSR grognards to Ginny Di cosplayers, EVERYONE is furious. This 'subset' covers everyone on social media with any interest in D&D.

Yeah, but on the flip side, they sell D&D children's books at Walmart (the one I looked at was about a vegan owlbear). Social media is small compared to the real world, no matter how important some people think it is.

The Gizmodo reporter who brought us the initial leak did a follow-up article on the cancelled livestream today. Insiders told her the OGL for the announcement was now going to be called OGL 2.0, but the backlash has been so severe they're holding off in hopes it dies down.

Quote from: Valatar on January 12, 2023, 06:47:32 PM
Paizo just announced their intention to legally contest any attempt from WotC to deauthorize the old OGL and make their own open license, along with several other publishers already on board.  With or without WotC backpedaling at this point, the face of RPGs is going to change.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v

Okay.

Now it's getting interesting.

Although I'm trusting your word on what they said at the moment, their website appears to have been wacked.

Quote from: Bruwulf on January 12, 2023, 06:55:16 PM

Quote from: Valatar on January 12, 2023, 06:47:32 PM
Paizo just announced their intention to legally contest any attempt from WotC to deauthorize the old OGL and make their own open license, along with several other publishers already on board.  With or without WotC backpedaling at this point, the face of RPGs is going to change.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v

Okay.

Now it's getting interesting.

Although I'm trusting your word on what they said at the moment, their website appears to have been wacked.

Archived version:
https://archive.md/leaSw

Shots fired! Shots fired!

Paizo just announced they're prepared to go to court and that they're creating a new open rpg license to be irrevocable. They've apparently gotten the law firm that created the original OGL to shepherd this new license.  Which also seems to imply that those folks would be more than happy to file affidavits or testify...


Their website crashed, but here's the announcement once it comes back up:
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v

EDIT: and I see I've been ninja'ed on this... That's what I get for going to eat dinner mid-post...

Quote from: JeremyR on January 12, 2023, 06:49:13 PM
Yeah, but on the flip side, they sell D&D children's books at Walmart (the one I looked at was about a vegan owlbear). Social media is small compared to the real world, no matter how important some people think it is.

The funny thing about that is this all started because WotC isn't getting enough money because only DMs really buy the product so they hope to get player money through micro transactions and stuff. Most of the online D&D community are DMs. They are force multipliers as each DM has a table full of players.

Quote
In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group.

Those are several of the big 3PP who are onboard already with this license.  Plus it being owned by the OG law firm that wrote up the OGL you know it's going to be solid.

WOTC has found a way to make the entire RPG industry of which they spent 20+ years cultivating and helping grow D&D into instant competitors all in the matter of a week,

That takes a special level of stupidity to make happen.

Quote from: Valatar on January 12, 2023, 06:47:32 PM
Paizo just announced their intention to legally contest any attempt from WotC to deauthorize the old OGL and make their own open license, along with several other publishers already on board.  With or without WotC backpedaling at this point, the face of RPGs is going to change.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v

So now Paizo, is considered to be among the good guys?  Two Thumbs Up, at the Irony of That.  The enemy of my enemy, is my friend now.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 12, 2023, 07:58:59 PM

So now Paizo, is considered to be among the good guys?  Two Thumbs Up, at the Irony of That.  The enemy of my enemy, is my friend now.

You can say what you want about their politics, but they were basically founded because there was a market WotC was abandoning, both on the consumer side and on the publisher side. This is... pretty much true to form for them.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 12, 2023, 07:58:59 PM
So now Paizo, is considered to be among the good guys?  Two Thumbs Up, at the Irony of That.  The enemy of my enemy, is my friend now.

We allied with the Soviets against the Germans in WW2. The enemy of my enemy is useful if he's attacking my enemy. War makes strange bedfellows.