Quote from: VisionStorm on January 10, 2023, 04:10:59 PM
Anyways, RE: CR, this is a golden opportunity for them to feature games other than D&D on their streams. I've heard that Matt Mercer may have his own game in the back burner and this could be the chance for him to promote his own game and leave D&D in the dust. If that's the case, I wish him the best of luck, cuz if anyone could help liberate the hobby from the D&D/WotC stranglehold it's CR.

I have a separate thread on this - but I think it's also fine if they keep to D&D 5E, but broadcast clearly about the problems of the OGL 1.1. They could feature more third-party material for D&D, and have nothing about any new WotC products. That means they'll still be watched by the biggest segment (5E players), and the anti-WotC message is thus spread more widely.

Quote from: jhkim on January 10, 2023, 04:57:17 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on January 10, 2023, 04:10:59 PM
Anyways, RE: CR, this is a golden opportunity for them to feature games other than D&D on their streams. I've heard that Matt Mercer may have his own game in the back burner and this could be the chance for him to promote his own game and leave D&D in the dust. If that's the case, I wish him the best of luck, cuz if anyone could help liberate the hobby from the D&D/WotC stranglehold it's CR.

I have a separate thread on this - but I think it's also fine if they keep to D&D 5E, but broadcast clearly about the problems of the OGL 1.1. They could feature more third-party material for D&D, and have nothing about any new WotC products. That means they'll still be watched by the biggest segment (5E players), and the anti-WotC message is thus spread more widely.

Honest question: Is WotC paying you or are you doing this for free?

CR is publicity for D&D, and you think giving them more of it is perfectly fine while WotC is busy trying to fuck the hobby in the ass with a sahuaro cactus sideways!

Regarding Critical Role - apparently Matt Mercer is currently running an arc wherein the gods of the setting (one of the only remaining elements of the CR setting with a connection to D&D) are under existential threat by something or other... i.e. Mercer may be cutting out the last things WotC might be able to claim to skate free and clear of WotC's grip.

We'll apparently know in a few weeks with the existing gods getting eaten (or whatever it is that's the threat) and getting replaced by new ones (the Vox Machina/campaign 1 PCs ascending? Nature goddess/Death god (very Hades/Persephone), Forge god, War god, Sun goddess, Huntress god, Arts/Music god sounds like a decent pantheon) likely indicating they're NOT continuing their association with WotC/D&D going forward.

That'd pretty much be the last nail in the coffin for the OGL1.1 being able to capture ANY meaningful third party creators in WotC's net.

Quote from: Chainsaw on January 10, 2023, 11:40:07 AM
Curious, why do you say ESG the heart of this?

When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail...

Quote from: estar on January 09, 2023, 09:29:19 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 09, 2023, 09:07:01 AM
The complete radio silence from Hasbro/WotC at this point is the most amusing thing to me. We're on day five of the leak. One would think with the way social media is blowing up against them Hasbro/WotC would have released some sort of statement by now.

Keep in mind it was just a "rumor" on Thursday. Became a full blown fire on Friday. Then started to become a raging inferno on Saturday. I think up to this point the community was inside WoTC's decision-action loop. But I would consider it unusual if we don't hear something by the end of the day Monday or at the latest Tuesday.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 09, 2023, 09:07:01 AM
They probably didn't even consider this would turn the outrage machine against them... coming from video games they don't understand that the primary component of an RPG is the grey matter of the player base and their product is really just a convenience so each GM doesn't need to make their own system. You can control access to a video game. You can't control access to people's own imaginations as they sit face to face at a table with pens, papers and dice.

Or the fact that unlike Triple A videos games we don't need a staff of a hundred to make a product that can compete as a RPG against whatever the biggest publishers can product. Often one person can do it in the time they have for a hobby.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 09, 2023, 09:07:01 AM
As outraged as we are, don't think for a second this is going as planned for Hasbro/WotC right now either.

I said else Hasbro/Wizards is fighting with the last war's general. For the most part, rest of the industry and hobby has moved on and adapted to the changes that the internet and digital technology have wrought.

Well today all we heard was a message from DNDBeyond which said along the lines of, "Yeah we know you have questions, please stand by"

D&D Beyond @DnDBeyond · 6h
We know you have questions about the OGL and we will be sharing more soon. Thank you for your patience.

That's it.

THAT is what they've managed to put together as a response to the firestorm after SIX days (four business days).

That is NOT how any organization that has any idea what they're going to do responds to something like this.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 07:06:14 PM
D&D Beyond @DnDBeyond · 6h
We know you have questions about the OGL and we will be sharing more soon. Thank you for your patience.

That's it.

THAT is what they've managed to put together as a response to the firestorm after SIX days (four business days).

That is NOT how any organization that has any idea what they're going to do responds to something like this.

Maybe (yeah if you believe that I have a bridge in San Fran for sale) they are busy making their new non open licence into a less shitty turd.

Or they are so sure the shitstorm will blow away that they only have to wait it out.

Nope, I was wrong. Deleted.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 07:11:39 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 07:06:14 PM
D&D Beyond @DnDBeyond · 6h
We know you have questions about the OGL and we will be sharing more soon. Thank you for your patience.

That's it.

THAT is what they've managed to put together as a response to the firestorm after SIX days (four business days).

That is NOT how any organization that has any idea what they're going to do responds to something like this.

Maybe (yeah if you believe that I have a bridge in San Fran for sale) they are busy making their new non open licence into a less shitty turd.

Or they are so sure the shitstorm will blow away that they only have to wait it out.

At best, it blows over only for their most diehard fans who will continue their DDB subscriptions. But even their members on the forums are saying they've unsubscribed over this. The negative bandwagon effect is going depress new signups too.

At this point they've already lost virtually every relevant 3rd party they'd hoped to capture in their net and all the competing VTT's like Foundry they hoped to kneecap are going to have a host of non-OGL options that will be D&D adjacent to choose from for players who don't want to join D&D's microtransaction-laden VTT.

They lost the element of surprise and no one steps into a pit trap they know is there.

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 07:40:41 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 07:11:39 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on January 10, 2023, 07:06:14 PM
D&D Beyond @DnDBeyond · 6h
We know you have questions about the OGL and we will be sharing more soon. Thank you for your patience.

That's it.

THAT is what they've managed to put together as a response to the firestorm after SIX days (four business days).

That is NOT how any organization that has any idea what they're going to do responds to something like this.

Maybe (yeah if you believe that I have a bridge in San Fran for sale) they are busy making their new non open licence into a less shitty turd.

Or they are so sure the shitstorm will blow away that they only have to wait it out.

At best, it blows over only for their most diehard fans who will continue their DDB subscriptions. But even their members on the forums are saying they've unsubscribed over this. The negative bandwagon effect is going depress new signups too.

At this point they've already lost virtually every relevant 3rd party they'd hoped to capture in their net and all the competing VTT's like Foundry they hoped to kneecap are going to have a host of non-OGL options that will be D&D adjacent to choose from for players who don't want to join D&D's microtransaction-laden VTT.

They lost the element of surprise and no one steps into a pit trap they know is there.

Plus Kobold Press already said they want to be the next Paizo, their black flag project is nothing but 5e with the serial numbers filled off.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 07:43:19 PM

Plus Kobold Press already said they want to be the next Paizo, their black flag project is nothing but 5e with the serial numbers filled off.

Yup!
The obvious allusion to piracy is also no accident, I assure you. Kobold Press, it seems, is openly challenging WotC. It would be interesting to see which way the tide goes on this.

Quote from: Effete on January 10, 2023, 07:55:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 07:43:19 PM

Plus Kobold Press already said they want to be the next Paizo, their black flag project is nothing but 5e with the serial numbers filled off.

Yup!
The obvious allusion to piracy is also no accident, I assure you. Kobold Press, it seems, is openly challenging WotC. It would be interesting to see which way the tide goes on this.

Given that I despise WotC and everything they stand for... I'll be rooting for KP

Quote from: Effete on January 10, 2023, 07:55:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 07:43:19 PM

Plus Kobold Press already said they want to be the next Paizo, their black flag project is nothing but 5e with the serial numbers filled off.

Yup!
The obvious allusion to piracy is also no accident, I assure you. Kobold Press, it seems, is openly challenging WotC. It would be interesting to see which way the tide goes on this.

I interpreted the black flag as total war with no quarter given (25%??? See what I did there?), but you're probably right.

Quote from: Effete on January 10, 2023, 07:55:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 07:43:19 PM

Plus Kobold Press already said they want to be the next Paizo, their black flag project is nothing but 5e with the serial numbers filled off.

Yup!
The obvious allusion to piracy is also no accident, I assure you. Kobold Press, it seems, is openly challenging WotC. It would be interesting to see which way the tide goes on this.

As it is, Kobold Press might actually have to change their branding, because the concept of a kobold being a dog/reptile small biped is very much a D&D thing, not like the kobolds of folklore which are German mine spirits/faeries.

But I'll be rooting for them.

Quote from: JeremyR on January 10, 2023, 08:30:01 PM

Quote from: Effete on January 10, 2023, 07:55:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 10, 2023, 07:43:19 PM

Plus Kobold Press already said they want to be the next Paizo, their black flag project is nothing but 5e with the serial numbers filled off.

Yup!
The obvious allusion to piracy is also no accident, I assure you. Kobold Press, it seems, is openly challenging WotC. It would be interesting to see which way the tide goes on this.

As it is, Kobold Press might actually have to change their branding, because the concept of a kobold being a dog/reptile small biped is very much a D&D thing, not like the kobolds of folklore which are German mine spirits/faeries.

But I'll be rooting for them.

Perhaps, but then that may also become part of the challenge. DnD is such a large share of the market (50-60%) and so ubiquitous, many aspects of their IP have slipped into the public awareness. The next step is pushing these ideas into the Public Domain. I am entirely in favor of diluting WotC's claim to simple gaming concepts and terms.