Local paper blows smoke up WotC's ass in laughable puff piece.
https://www.seattletimes.com/life/lifestyle/behind-the-scenes-of-the-making-of-dungeons-dragons/
While a total crock of shit, its good press for the hobby.
So let's celebrate!
Press Releases enter the blesséd Real Newz sphere! Our hobby has arrived... again! :D
OK, reading that was good for a laugh.
Okay, for the sake of accurately reflecting what the article said, they said that a 2017 survey found that 40% of payers were women. What they should have said was 'a 2017 survey of D&D players had 40% of responders indicate that they were female' or the like.
I also can't find the 1 in 15 number. I state there were 12-15 million current players in North America (using sales data). Now, sales data can't actually tell us this, only who has bought books, not who is using them. But 12-15 million North Americans (pop. 579 million) is between 1 in 39 and 1 in 48.
Regardless, it is puffery sold on top puff pastry and fried puffin. Unless WotC starts releasing some white papers with their survey research methods, we have no real basis to judge their accuracy. They want us to know it's a banner year and that 5e is a huge success? Great! For those of us that studied any of this stuff, attaching numbers without attribution to this fact detracts from the claim, not adds (but then again we're certainly not the target audiences of a piece like this).
While Hasbro has almost nothing to do with the running of Wotc, let alone D&D, it has been mentioned before that they helped them with market research. Companies like Hasbro have figured out that market research and this sort of information is a valuable thing, so they aren't likely to just hand that over (including how they collected the data, etc) to the general public, which includes their competition. What would it gain them anyways? Convince some people who doubt the degree of their success? Doubtful and probably pointless from their perspective.
Oh, let me be clear--I do not expect this kind of data (it is simply what I would need to be confident that their research actually shows what the article indicates). It is not in their best interest and I'm fine with that. I'm being honest when I say 'They want us to know it's a banner year and that 5e is a huge success? Great!' Good on them, good for them, and good for us.
Looking at the picture in the article, it appears that 33% of D&D players are African American NFL players, and 67% are WotC staff.
Also "the D&D brand had a 44 percent sales growth over 2016, and the most number of players in its history - 12 million to 15 million in North America alone." - so that would include all games that say D&D on them (including computer games and non-trad-RPG-"tabletop" games and card games (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/board-card-games)).
Awesome, so this means there's no toxic misogynistic culture driving women away and keeping them out of the hobby. Right?
Good to know.
Quote from: Piestrio;1038471Awesome, so this means there's no toxic misogynistic culture driving women away and keeping them out of the hobby. Right?
Good to know.
It's the misogyny of the hobby that stops it from being 100% women.
That's why we need to drive men out
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1038393I also can't find the 1 in 15 number. I state there were 12-15 million current players in North America (using sales data). Now, sales data can't actually tell us this, only who has bought books, not who is using them. But 12-15 million North Americans (pop. 579 million) is between 1 in 39 and 1 in 48.
Sorry, I got the 15M players mixed up with ENworld's declaration of 1 player in 20 people number.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5217-Dungeons-Dragons-has-15-Million-Players-in-NA-Alone-Storyline-Is-The-Da-Vinci-Code-meets-Gangs-of-New-York
And I agree that if the real numbers are actually 50% of what's reported, that's GREAT news for the hobby.
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1038474It's the misogyny of the hobby that stops it from being 100% women.
That's why we need to drive men out
Well until some Incel decides to drive a van back into the women. :D
Whats the problem? Its a puff piece. A nice fluffy positve puff pastry as some one said above.
Why you mad bro?
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1038393Okay, for the sake of accurately reflecting what the article said, they said that a 2017 survey found that 40% of payers were women. What they should have said was 'a 2017 survey of D&D players had 40% of responders indicate that they were female' or the like.
Anecdotal is anecdotal, but every game group I've been in for the last decade has been around 40% female. Two of my groups are three guys and two gals. One game of Rifts I was in a few years ago was a actually four gals and two guys.
I don't find that 40% stat to be unbelievable at all.
More players is a good thing.
More players who actually play is a good thing.
I could believe 1 in 15 have played it, but quite obviously 1 in 15 are not playing it now.
I've been running an open game table for AD&D1e. We've had 8 sessions, and the attendances have been,
Paul 8
Dan 8
Hansen 2
Pino 1
Ethan 1
Simon 5
Pat 1
Kira 1
Jon 1st 1
John 2nd 2
Michael 1
So that I could say, "I run a game with 11 players," but the truth is that 6 of them came once. Lots of people are willing to give anything a go - once, or even twice. That doesn't make them regular players of that game or sport.
Quote from: Headless;1038514Whats the problem? Its a puff piece. A nice fluffy positve puff pastry as some one said above.
Why you mad bro?
New to the Internet, are we?
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1038523I could believe 1 in 15 have played it, but quite obviously 1 in 15 are not playing it now.
At least 2/3 (probably more) of the boys in my grade school class in 1980 played D&D for a few months. At least 1 in 6 (that I know of) continued to play some RPG more seriously in later years.
Quote from: jeff37923;1038521More players who actually play is a good thing.
Yes.
At least a third of the players in my local D&D scene are women, and I live in a pretty redneck rural area. The percentage goes up even higher if you count Pathfinder as "D&D". Forty percent for a college town or big metro area is completely plausible.
It's not the eighties anymore.
Quote from: Headless;1038514Whats the problem? Its a puff piece. A nice fluffy positve puff pastry as some one said above.
Why you mad bro?
Why are you getting bent out of shape over a comment on a puff piece?
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1038523I could believe 1 in 15 have played it, but quite obviously 1 in 15 are not playing it now.
I bet it's skewed by people who have bought multiple copies. I myself have bought two copies of the three core books, because I have an old friend who cannot afford them himself.
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1038859At least a third of the players in my local D&D scene are women, and I live in a pretty redneck rural area. The percentage goes up even higher if you count Pathfinder as "D&D". Forty percent for a college town or big metro area is completely plausible.
It's not the eighties anymore.
About a quarter to a third of my gaming pool have been women for ages.
The current strength of popculture in Western society normalises our niche to such an extent, that high numbers of women in the hobby seem credible. Maybe not 40%, but ~30% sounds reasonable.
Even I, a chauvinist, have a regular female player in my group.
Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1039129The current strength of popculture in Western society normalises our niche to such an extent, that high numbers of women in the hobby seem credible. Maybe not 40%, but ~30% sounds reasonable.
Then we skew that towards 'people who answer WotC surveys,' and the 40% looks fairly believable. Perhaps WotC isn't just blowing smoke (the reporter, however, does need to learn how to state what the survey actually is).
I'm sure this is a product of sampling bias. They probably gathered the data at conventions, and most of those things have become hostile environments for their main demographic: The Dreaded Cis White Male that doesn't want to lose their livelihood because they noticed a woman was a woman or didn't notice the person with an 8in beard was a woman.
Quote from: ThePoxBox;1039163I'm sure this is a product of sampling bias. They probably gathered the data at conventions, and most of those things have become hostile environments for their main demographic: The Dreaded Cis White Male that doesn't want to lose their livelihood because they noticed a woman was a woman or didn't notice the person with an 8in beard was a woman.
Last I checked, people don't go to gaming conventions looking for a hookup. I could care less what the person I am buying books from looks like because I am there to buy books. Mind you, I also shave and shower and exercise regularly and am capable of having a conversation without making sexual comments so yeah.
Quote from: Krimson;1039172Last I checked, people don't go to gaming conventions looking for a hookup. I could care less what the person I am buying books from looks like because I am there to buy books. Mind you, I also shave and shower and exercise regularly and am capable of having a conversation without making sexual comments so yeah.
That's probably one of the most passive-aggressive, prejudice things I've ever heard. How does one's sexual orientation, race, or gender, relate to someone's physical fitness, hygiene, or social skills? And furthermore, why is this discussion immediately about you? We're talking about surveys, statistics, and demographics. You are an individual, so your individual experience is not on topic.
I'm talking about federal law when it comes to sexual harassment in the workplace and how those laws try to become precedent for policy at conventions. When the adjudication is based on how someone feels offended, and that mere rumor can ruin someone's reputation to those that work for companies that are afraid of virtue signalling mobs, then yes, it's a hostile environment.
To get back on topic, I'm just agreeing with other people in the topic talking about a lack of transparency on how the survey was conducted. When basic scientific processes are not followed for things like surveys, they might as well never publish them if they have any thread of integrity.
Quote from: ThePoxBox;1039175That's probably one of the most passive-aggressive, prejudice things I've ever heard. How does one's sexual orientation, race, or gender, relate to someone's physical fitness, hygiene, or social skills? And furthermore, why is this discussion immediately about you? We're talking about surveys, statistics, and demographics. You are an individual, so your individual experience is not on topic.
I'm talking about federal law when it comes to sexual harassment in the workplace and how those laws try to become precedent for policy at conventions. When the adjudication is based on how someone feels offended, and that mere rumor can ruin someone's reputation to those that work for companies that are afraid of virtue signalling mobs, then yes, it's a hostile environment.
To get back on topic, I'm just agreeing with other people in the topic talking about a lack of transparency on how the survey was conducted. When basic scientific processes are not followed for things like surveys, they might as well never publish them if they have any thread of integrity.
People who conduct themselves like normal, respectful human beings while out in public typically don't whine about being discriminated against. In my experience, there is only one demographic which needs to be escorted off the property by security.
Quote from: Krimson;1039177People who conduct themselves like normal, respectful human beings while out in public typically don't whine about being discriminated against. In my experience, there is only one demographic which needs to be escorted off the property by security.
I'm not whining. I don't go because there is no way to prevent abuse of the policy as a tool for witch-hunting every person that doesn't agree with someone else and they want to be malicious and try to ruin their life. If there were consequences for false accusations I'd feel differently, but there aren't because the falsity of the accusations is just as hard to prove as the validity of them. Without any physical evidence, these situations are hearsay and should be treated as such. That is, there is no adjudicating hearsay, no matter the number of witnesses. No evidence, no case, no punishment.
In my experience, you personally, are a racist and sexist theocrat professing the doctrine of "normal, respectful" purity. You're more disgusting than those that you try to pass judgement upon.
Quote from: ThePoxBox;1039181If there were consequences for false accusations I'd feel differently, but there aren't because the falsity of the accusations is just as hard to prove as the validity of them. Without any physical evidence, these situations are hearsay and should be treated as such. That is, there is no adjudicating hearsay, no matter the number of witnesses. No evidence, no case, no punishment.
Methinks you are going to the wrong parties. At a convention, there are hundreds of people all of whom are carrying high definition cameras in their pockets. Conduct yourself in public as if a camera is pointed at you, because one probably is.
Quote from: ThePoxBox;1039181In my experience, you personally, are a racist and sexist theocrat professing the doctrine of "normal, respectful" purity. You're more disgusting than those that you try to pass judgement upon.
If it makes you feel better, I don't believe in imaginary sky beings, nor any other thing from a book of fairy tales written by bronze age primitives.
Quote from: Krimson;1039172Last I checked, people don't go to gaming conventions looking for a hookup. I could care less what the person I am buying books from looks like because I am there to buy books. Mind you, I also shave and shower and exercise regularly and am capable of having a conversation without making sexual comments so yeah.
A talent I have yet to master-bate.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1039189A talent I have yet to master-bate.
You'd be surprised how many problems this avoids. I have been falsely accused of sexual harassment before. I dealt with it by not being defensive and just answering questions as honestly as possible. Now I know that isn't going to help everyone. I mean there are people in prison or who have been executed because of false evidence or testimony. I cannot control how others behave, and I can only control my own conduct when in public. If I am faced with an accusation, then I don't get defensive. They can go ahead and present their evidence. Mind you, I also spent years as a shop steward, and spent a good amount of time keeping people from losing their jobs over baseless accusations.
Quote from: Krimson;1039187Methinks you are going to the wrong parties. At a convention, there are hundreds of people all of whom are carrying high definition cameras in their pockets. Conduct yourself in public as if a camera is pointed at you, because one probably is.
If it makes you feel better, I don't believe in imaginary sky beings, nor any other thing from a book of fairy tales written by bronze age primitives.
You don't have to believe in a god or old religion to be a theocrat. You're building the new religion, the new philosophy that what makes you uncomfortable is evil and what makes you feel safe is good, and that you can attack and ruin people's livelihoods with words. Good luck with that. Defamation can be more damaging to someone's reputation than any fistfight, and you and yours can be sued for bringing forth people to a tribunal of event organizers or forum moderators. Most settlements are under non disclosure agreements, so you don't hear about what actually happens in most of these cases. I can tell you that people who bring slander and libel against people with no evidence will lose and lose hard in court. I don't negotiate with social justice terrorists, and nobody else should either.
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;1038859At least a third of the players in my local D&D scene are women, and I live in a pretty redneck rural area. The percentage goes up even higher if you count Pathfinder as "D&D". Forty percent for a college town or big metro area is completely plausible.
It's not the eighties anymore.
I wouldn't be surprised if 40 per cent of D&D players under the age of 40 today are women. I would be surprised, however, if more than a quarter of the players over 40 are women. Few of those long-term players are active on social media, so they're likely under-recognized by WotC.
It is kinda of comical how it undermines the representation crusade. If almost half of players are women, then why are we still fretting over this stuff?
Quote from: ThePoxBox;1039211You don't have to believe in a god or old religion to be a theocrat. You're building the new religion, the new philosophy that what makes you uncomfortable is evil and what makes you feel safe is good, and that you can attack and ruin people's livelihoods with words. Good luck with that. Defamation can be more damaging to someone's reputation than any fistfight, and you and yours can be sued for bringing forth people to a tribunal of event organizers or forum moderators. Most settlements are under non disclosure agreements, so you don't hear about what actually happens in most of these cases. I can tell you that people who bring slander and libel against people with no evidence will lose and lose hard in court. I don't negotiate with social justice terrorists, and nobody else should either.
Alrighty then.
Quote from: ThePoxBox;1039211You don't have to believe in a god or old religion to be a theocrat. You're building the new religion, the new philosophy that what makes you uncomfortable is evil and what makes you feel safe is good, and that you can attack and ruin people's livelihoods with words. Good luck with that. Defamation can be more damaging to someone's reputation than any fistfight, and you and yours can be sued for bringing forth people to a tribunal of event organizers or forum moderators. Most settlements are under non disclosure agreements, so you don't hear about what actually happens in most of these cases. I can tell you that people who bring slander and libel against people with no evidence will lose and lose hard in court. I don't negotiate with social justice terrorists, and nobody else should either.
Show us on the doll where a girl touched you in a bad way.
Quote from: Haffrung;1039212I wouldn't be surprised if 40 per cent of D&D players under the age of 40 today are women. I would be surprised, however, if more than a quarter of the players over 40 are women. Few of those long-term players are active on social media, so they're likely under-recognized by WotC.
It is kinda of comical how it undermines the representation crusade. If almost half of players are women, then why are we still fretting over this stuff?
Progressives don't like progress. You can't collect money if there isn't a problem.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1039221Show us on the doll where a girl touched you in a bad way.
That would actually improve the quality of the performance-art.
This was linked to earlier in another thread (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?38905-Are-There-More-People-Playing-D-amp-D-Now-Than-In-the-Glory-Days)...not sure why it's suddenly getting outrage now. More importantly, not sure what the objections really are?
OK, you're not sure about their numbers. WHY? You have reason to believe there are not more players now than before? You have reason to think a lot more women are not playing now than before? What are those reasons, other than anecdotes from people who on average tend to be themselves older players who more frequently play an older version of the game and far less likely to be representative of modern sales for a relatively new version of the game?
These reactions are just odd to me. As someone who is nearly 50, I wouldn't assume I had a great bead on the heartbeat of current music for example - my tastes will differ from the more typical tastes of a 20 year old, and I wouldn't automatically assume a music company reporting that there was a rapid increase in the amount of money or quantity of sales they experienced this year was false based on my own experiences. But for some reason when it comes to D&D people are assuming they have a better bead on it than the company selling it for...reasons? Because we like RPGs and talk about them a lot? Because we've been playing for a very long time? I am just not seeing those kinds of reasons as being particularly good ones.
In light of PHB sales being at or near the top of all book sales for much of FOUR FULL YEARS, and Streaming and YouTube videos of both live games being played and advice on running the game are seeing view counts which challenge other very mainstream pop culture entertainment numbers, along with consistent data from other sources (including NYT Best Seller List, ICv2 reporting, Barnes and Noble reporting, SEC regulated quarterly and yearly reporting from Hasbro stock reports, appearances on popular television shows, an expensive court fight over the rights to make a movie, similar upticks in adjacent hobbies like board games and interest in other geek culture products, etc.) why all the doubting that the numbers being reported might be real?
Quote from: Mistwell;1039232This was linked to earlier in another thread...not sure why it's suddenly getting outrage now. More importantly, not sure what the objections really are? OK, you're not sure about their numbers. WHY? You have reason to believe there are not more players now than before? You have reason to think a lot more women are not playing now than before? What are those reasons, other than anecdotes from people who are themselves older players who typically play an older version of the game and inherently unlikely to be representative of modern sales for a relatively new version of the game?
But the WotC spokesperson wasn't talking about new players or players of the latest edition. He said
all D&D players. And since there a lot of people from the early 80s D&D craze still playing, and as there were vanishingly few women playing back in those days, I'm skeptical about that 40 per cent figure. Not outraged, just skeptical. As I am about most marketing and PR efforts.
Quote from: Haffrung;1039240And since there a lot of people from the early 80s D&D craze still playing, and as there were vanishingly few women playing back in those days,
I don't know where the hell you were or how old you were, but college gaming groups in the 80s, at least in the Midwest, were close to 50/50.
The 40% figure is not in quotes:
[I]It worked; a 2017 survey found that nearly 40 percent of D&D players are women.[/I]
We have no idea who is making the claim of 40 percent, WotC spokesperson or reporter. They are indicating that it is the findings of a single 2017 survey, so we are left to question whether that (40% of all D&D players) is actually the reasonable conclusion of the survey (and whether the survey could accurately determine that). As usual, (social) scientific reporting in local newspapers is insufficient. Color me unsurprised.
Quote from: Haffrung;1039240But the WotC spokesperson wasn't talking about new players or players of the latest edition. He said all D&D players. And since there a lot of people from the early 80s D&D craze still playing, and as there were vanishingly few women playing back in those days, I'm skeptical about that 40 per cent figure. Not outraged, just skeptical. As I am about most marketing and PR efforts.
They also say D&D is selling more than it's ever sold before in the history of the game. So, a larger percentage of those players being surveyed are new. Old players drop away over time, but if sales are at their peak, then we're talking about a much larger percentage of new players.
Quote from: Mistwell;1039267They also say D&D is selling more than it's ever sold before in the history of the game. So, a larger percentage of those players being surveyed are new. Old players drop away over time, but if sales are at their peak, then we're talking about a much larger percentage of new players.
OTOH, once you've got the core, you can keep playing indefinitely without needing to buy new stuff, so while 5E players may be a plurality, the 5E books would arguably have to have sold on the level of most or all other editions combined in order to be of necessity an outright majority.
But I don't want what WotC is selling (aside from old PDFs), they don't want me as a customer, and I'm too skittish of strangers and the new gaming culture to want to engage with the AL or a new group, so on a personal level, it's all moot. :)
Actually those stats seem VERY Believable to me based on what I've seen in this city and nearby area, if and only IF they include 'Pathfinder' and other Role Playing games in their calculations.
There are LOTS of women playing RPGs, buying the books, maps, and dice associated with RPGs - and Not for the men in their lives but for themselves or their girlfriends...
- Ed C.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1039244I don't know where the hell you were or how old you were, but college gaming groups in the 80s, at least in the Midwest, were close to 50/50.
I was in jr high in '83. Dozens of boys in my school played. A bunch played in high school too. Didn't see a single girl play, though. And at the local D&D tournament I went to, ages 12 to 40-something, there were about 3 or 4 women out of 100 players. This was in an educated, affluent, large Canadian city.
I don't see a lot of girls in this camp (https://2warpstoneptune.com/2013/06/18/dungeons-dragons-camp-1981-1985/), either, circa 1985.
Are you honestly claiming D&D has always had a close to 50-50 gender split, or are you just being a contrarian?
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1039244I don't know where the hell you were or how old you were, but college gaming groups in the 80s, at least in the Midwest, were close to 50/50.
So are you suggesting all the WotC efforts have actually driven women away from the game (down to only 40%)?
New players are a great thing for the hobby.
Puff pieces are good for WotC and the hobby.
But laughable puff pieces deserve mockery, and if you can't tell the difference between mockery and outrage...then you're gonna provide me lots of LOLz!
Quote from: Krimson;1039177In my experience, there is only one demographic which needs to be escorted off the property by security.
Koreans? Sicilians? Fans of Shannara?
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1039189A talent I have yet to master-bate.
That is hysterical!
Quote from: happyhermit;1038430While Hasbro has almost nothing to do with the running of Wotc, let alone D&D, it has been mentioned before that they helped them with market research.
um... Hasbro has WOTC often on a very tight leash. And if I recall correctly they mandated that if 5e didnt do well that was the end of D&D. Theyve also handed a few board games over to WOTC to handle. Which WOTC then botched a few of and they havent given WOTC as much since.
Quote from: Haffrung;1039280Are you honestly claiming D&D has always had a close to 50-50 gender split, or are you just being a contrarian?
No, that is, quite literally, not what he claimed. He made a very specific statement about gaming in a specific time, place, and demographic (80s, Midwestern, college-age).
QuoteI was in jr high in '83. Dozens of boys in my school played. A bunch played in high school too. Didn't see a single girl play, though. And at the local D&D tournament I went to, ages 12 to 40-something, there were about 3 or 4 women out of 100 players. This was in an educated, affluent, large Canadian city.
That is a good counterpoint anecdote. And I think it highlights the difference. Those who started gaming in jr. high (or in grade school, which I was in '83, and also saw mostly boys playing) probably saw a mostly male gaming demographic. Those who got into it later than that probably saw a more even split. And the real question is which part of the gaming demographic has the most weight, and how far does the demographic that is mostly male drag the average away from the more even split (and I don't think anyone here really knows).
It's not unlike all sorts of other nerd phenomenon. Growing up, most of the people I knew who liked Star Trek and Star Wars (enough to make that clear to others) were male, but the overall trend has consistently shown (and as pop culture, there are a lot more studies on this I am sure) to be only very slightly male-favoring.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1039355Fans of Shannara?
Indeed. They are a menace.
We had somewhat around a 50/50 ratio in college and later, contrasted to very rare participation by females in middle school and high school, and the answer was simple: Our venues at the earlier age were mostly limited to peoples' houses, playing all night. No way the parents involved were going to allow a mixed group in that environment, at that time. When we did have a public venue, female participation did hit close to 50%. There were no equivalent all-female groups in our area not because of lack of interest in players, but the lack of a female GM.
If you market a game to the 10-18 crowd, and you have a sizable chunk of that market with limited options in play spaces, of course it is going to affect your demographics.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1039434We had somewhat around a 50/50 ratio in college and later, contrasted to very rare participation by females in middle school and high school, and the answer was simple: Our venues at the earlier age were mostly limited to peoples' houses, playing all night. No way the parents involved were going to allow a mixed group in that environment, at that time. When we did have a public venue, female participation did hit close to 50%. There were no equivalent all-female groups in our area not because of lack of interest in players, but the lack of a female GM.
If you market a game to the 10-18 crowd, and you have a sizable chunk of that market with limited options in play spaces, of course it is going to affect your demographics.
Mmm. I hadn't thought about that angle.
Quote from: Krimson;1039419Indeed. They are a menace.
Are they better or worse than fans of
Sha Na Na?
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1039434We had somewhat around a 50/50 ratio in college and later, contrasted to very rare participation by females in middle school and high school, and the answer was simple: Our venues at the earlier age were mostly limited to peoples' houses, playing all night. No way the parents involved were going to allow a mixed group in that environment, at that time. When we did have a public venue, female participation did hit close to 50%. There were no equivalent all-female groups in our area not because of lack of interest in players, but the lack of a female GM.
If you market a game to the 10-18 crowd, and you have a sizable chunk of that market with limited options in play spaces, of course it is going to affect your demographics.
I get the decided impression that there is a core constituency where the effectively-all-male bit never changed, and the battle is really over what proportion of the norm that is.
Quote from: Skarg;1039437Are they better or worse than fans of Sha Na Na?
Sha Na Na had Bowser. That is all you need to know. :D
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1039434We had somewhat around a 50/50 ratio in college and later, contrasted to very rare participation by females in middle school and high school, and the answer was simple: Our venues at the earlier age were mostly limited to peoples' houses, playing all night. No way the parents involved were going to allow a mixed group in that environment, at that time. When we did have a public venue, female participation did hit close to 50%. There were no equivalent all-female groups in our area not because of lack of interest in players, but the lack of a female GM.
My experiences were different. Around here, in junior high boys hung around with boys and girls hung around with girls. The only time they mixed was dating (or 'going around' as it was called then), which was pretty awkward, and certainly not something that involved nerd activities like D&D. By high school, there was some social mixing, but by the time you were hanging out with girls an extreme nerd activity like D&D was socially toxic, and kept a secret.
Then there's the fact nerd culture itself was almost exclusively male. I don't think I ever saw a girl in jr high or high school reading a fantasy novel.
Quote from: Haffrung;1039441My experiences were different. Around here, in junior high boys hung around with boys and girls hung around with girls. The only time they mixed was dating (or 'going around' as it was called then), which was pretty awkward, and certainly not something that involved nerd activities like D&D. By high school, there was some social mixing, but by the time you were hanging out with girls an extreme nerd activity like D&D was socially toxic, and kept a secret.
Then there's the fact nerd culture itself was almost exclusively male. I don't think I ever saw a girl in jr high or high school reading a fantasy novel.
Well, I'm not making any claim about how typical our experience was. I have no way to know. Given the interest that was expressed in the junior high/high school years, by many female players when they had the chance, I suspect if we had available a school club or something similar, things would have been similar to my later college experiences. Certainly, we often had other co-ed things going on, such as backyard sports and the like on Sunday afternoons. It probably had something to do with the fact that for us gaming was mostly a winter/rainy day pastime, not something we did regularly. The times when we could have gotten together co-ed, we were either working outside or playing sports. Might be a difference in our rural experience versus small town/city, too. When people live 10 miles apart and don't have their own car, it changes options.
Quote from: Omega;1039362um... Hasbro has WOTC often on a very tight leash.
For D&D? All reports are the opposite.
QuoteAnd if I recall correctly they mandated that if 5e didnt do well that was the end of D&D.
That looks patently false - produce any link saying otherwise. You can tell what Hasbro cares about from what they mention to stockholders every quarter and yearly, and they never once mentioned D&D until after it was suddenly doing well. Mearls and Crawford implied D&D was sort of hidden in the umbrella of WOTC as just more "game-like stuff" prior to 5e launch (which is one reason they had so few employees dedicated to D&D).
I think you're confusing "fan speculation" with "accurate facts".
QuoteTheyve also handed a few board games over to WOTC to handle. Which WOTC then botched a few of and they havent given WOTC as much since.
You mean the board game business they are publishing these days that's booming? This one (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/board-card-games)?
Damn you are seriously full of it mang. There is no sin in admitting you're kinda out of touch with the current marketplace for D&D, but at least be aware that you are!
The best way I can think of to approximate the male/female ratio would be by con attendance at the major conventions, and even that would be an imperfect way of doing it.
Quote from: Krimson;1039419Indeed. They are a menace.
Why whats wrong with them???(never read the books or knowingly met them but it seems like A fine series)
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1039434We had somewhat around a 50/50 ratio in college and later, contrasted to very rare participation by females in middle school and high school, and the answer was simple: Our venues at the earlier age were mostly limited to peoples' houses, playing all night. No way the parents involved were going to allow a mixed group in that environment, at that time. When we did have a public venue, female participation did hit close to 50%. There were no equivalent all-female groups in our area not because of lack of interest in players, but the lack of a female GM.
If you market a game to the 10-18 crowd, and you have a sizable chunk of that market with limited options in play spaces, of course it is going to affect your demographics.
Which I find interesting BC in my small town people seem to have no issue with there highschool mixed group friends going out and having fun.
Then again I have overheard these kids planing there orgys and this town is pretty antigeek so that might not be the best example.
Quote from: kosmos1214;1039494Why whats wrong with them???(never read the books or knowingly met them but it seems like A fine series)
That was me being facetious.
Quote from: kosmos1214;1039494Why whats wrong with them???(never read the books or knowingly met them but it seems like A fine series)
Which I find interesting BC in my small town people seem to have no issue with there highschool mixed group friends going out and having fun.
Then again I have overheard these kids planing there orgys and this town is pretty antigeek so that might not be the best example.
You might not have noticed the part about being a house and "playing all night." We had all kinds of co-ed events. Just not ones that had the mixed group in a converted garage with no adult supervision after the parents went to bed. :)
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1039502You might not have noticed the part about being a house and "playing all night." We had all kinds of co-ed events. Just not ones that had the mixed group in a converted garage with no adult supervision after the parents went to bed. :)
And all night out unsupervised is what I am seeing.