Quote from: RPGPundit on July 22, 2022, 09:47:25 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 22, 2022, 12:11:36 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2022, 11:53:46 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 20, 2022, 08:18:34 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 20, 2022, 09:20:47 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 20, 2022, 07:37:35 AM

Quote from: jhkim on July 19, 2022, 04:30:46 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 19, 2022, 04:17:57 PM
If understand correctly, what they're telling you is that you're not allowed to be "racist." What is considered racist for this purpose and how do they intend to enforce this rule?

In general, what is the actual text talked about here? It's supposedly from Journeys through the Radiant Citadel, but I remember how Pundit previously claimed that Candlekeep Mysteries had an official combat wheelchair and that every dungeon from Candlekeep on was wheelchair-accessible - which were blatantly false.

Except that it wasn't "false", it was based on what leftist gaming media were reporting. So THEY were the liars.

Propagating a story without verifying it isn't any better.

At the time there was no way to tell it was not true. And WOTC themselves have more than once lied about book content through 5es run.
This is why every time WOTC or one of their staff make a claim. I wait and see what the actual product is because odds are it aint.

So yes in Pundits defense he got baited that time and fell for it. So did everyone else for a while. And the combat wheelchair did show up. Just not in mainstream D&D. It was added to Idle Champions round the same time. To "make D&D more welcoming". And that is exactly where I quit playing IC:FR and haven't touched it since.

Case in point, the new Radiant Citadel book has been promoted everywhere on social media with the emphasis on the book having been produced by 50 people of color, and no white people. Wizards itself has done this promotion, through spokespersons like Ajit George (the lead on this book, who until recently had practically no experience in game design).
And yet, I've now been told (note: might be inaccurate) that in the physical book itself, the one gamers will look at in stores, it doesn't mention this ANYWHERE. If true, that proves just how WoTC operates: their virtue signaling is to the Woke Twitter Mob, but then they desperately try to cover up the truth for actual customers, trying as hard as possible to pass this book off as just another great adventures book and not a piece of BLM / Defund the Police propaganda (note, by the way, the Radiant Citadel has "community policing" with restorative justice and treating crime as a mental health issue. In spite of this, and unlike everywhere in the real world where Defunding Police has been tried, the citadel supposedly has "very little crime".

And unlike everywhere in the real world, they have magic.

The only context in which they mention magic in that section, however, is that in cases of severe offenses they magically mind-control a person to be unable to ever repeat the crime again. Which is quite Totalitarian and quite telling. 
I mean, saying "Defund the police works IF YOU HAVE MAGIC POWERS that you can use to BRAIN-WIPE anyone you want" is hardly what I'd call a victory for the Defund the Police movement.

Damn, beat me to it! Freaking slow typing phone!

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 22, 2022, 09:49:33 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 22, 2022, 09:47:25 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 22, 2022, 12:11:36 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2022, 11:53:46 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 20, 2022, 08:18:34 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 20, 2022, 09:20:47 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 20, 2022, 07:37:35 AM

Quote from: jhkim on July 19, 2022, 04:30:46 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 19, 2022, 04:17:57 PM
If understand correctly, what they're telling you is that you're not allowed to be "racist." What is considered racist for this purpose and how do they intend to enforce this rule?

In general, what is the actual text talked about here? It's supposedly from Journeys through the Radiant Citadel, but I remember how Pundit previously claimed that Candlekeep Mysteries had an official combat wheelchair and that every dungeon from Candlekeep on was wheelchair-accessible - which were blatantly false.

Except that it wasn't "false", it was based on what leftist gaming media were reporting. So THEY were the liars.

Propagating a story without verifying it isn't any better.

At the time there was no way to tell it was not true. And WOTC themselves have more than once lied about book content through 5es run.
This is why every time WOTC or one of their staff make a claim. I wait and see what the actual product is because odds are it aint.

So yes in Pundits defense he got baited that time and fell for it. So did everyone else for a while. And the combat wheelchair did show up. Just not in mainstream D&D. It was added to Idle Champions round the same time. To "make D&D more welcoming". And that is exactly where I quit playing IC:FR and haven't touched it since.

Case in point, the new Radiant Citadel book has been promoted everywhere on social media with the emphasis on the book having been produced by 50 people of color, and no white people. Wizards itself has done this promotion, through spokespersons like Ajit George (the lead on this book, who until recently had practically no experience in game design).
And yet, I've now been told (note: might be inaccurate) that in the physical book itself, the one gamers will look at in stores, it doesn't mention this ANYWHERE. If true, that proves just how WoTC operates: their virtue signaling is to the Woke Twitter Mob, but then they desperately try to cover up the truth for actual customers, trying as hard as possible to pass this book off as just another great adventures book and not a piece of BLM / Defund the Police propaganda (note, by the way, the Radiant Citadel has "community policing" with restorative justice and treating crime as a mental health issue. In spite of this, and unlike everywhere in the real world where Defunding Police has been tried, the citadel supposedly has "very little crime".

And unlike everywhere in the real world, they have magic.

The only context in which they mention magic in that section, however, is that in cases of severe offenses they magically mind-control a person to be unable to ever repeat the crime again. Which is quite Totalitarian and quite telling. 
I mean, saying "Defund the police works IF YOU HAVE MAGIC POWERS that you can use to BRAIN-WIPE anyone you want" is hardly what I'd call a victory for the Defund the Police movement.

At the risk of moving the discussion too far afield, Pundit, we have that option too. It's called lobotomization.

Yeah, but in-game, we can have MAGICAL lobotomization. That makes all the difference and makes this workable, because "magic"!

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 22, 2022, 09:47:25 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 22, 2022, 12:11:36 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2022, 11:53:46 PM

Quote from: Omega on July 20, 2022, 08:18:34 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on July 20, 2022, 09:20:47 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 20, 2022, 07:37:35 AM

Quote from: jhkim on July 19, 2022, 04:30:46 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on July 19, 2022, 04:17:57 PM
If understand correctly, what they're telling you is that you're not allowed to be "racist." What is considered racist for this purpose and how do they intend to enforce this rule?

In general, what is the actual text talked about here? It's supposedly from Journeys through the Radiant Citadel, but I remember how Pundit previously claimed that Candlekeep Mysteries had an official combat wheelchair and that every dungeon from Candlekeep on was wheelchair-accessible - which were blatantly false.

Except that it wasn't "false", it was based on what leftist gaming media were reporting. So THEY were the liars.

Propagating a story without verifying it isn't any better.

At the time there was no way to tell it was not true. And WOTC themselves have more than once lied about book content through 5es run.
This is why every time WOTC or one of their staff make a claim. I wait and see what the actual product is because odds are it aint.

So yes in Pundits defense he got baited that time and fell for it. So did everyone else for a while. And the combat wheelchair did show up. Just not in mainstream D&D. It was added to Idle Champions round the same time. To "make D&D more welcoming". And that is exactly where I quit playing IC:FR and haven't touched it since.

Case in point, the new Radiant Citadel book has been promoted everywhere on social media with the emphasis on the book having been produced by 50 people of color, and no white people. Wizards itself has done this promotion, through spokespersons like Ajit George (the lead on this book, who until recently had practically no experience in game design).
And yet, I've now been told (note: might be inaccurate) that in the physical book itself, the one gamers will look at in stores, it doesn't mention this ANYWHERE. If true, that proves just how WoTC operates: their virtue signaling is to the Woke Twitter Mob, but then they desperately try to cover up the truth for actual customers, trying as hard as possible to pass this book off as just another great adventures book and not a piece of BLM / Defund the Police propaganda (note, by the way, the Radiant Citadel has "community policing" with restorative justice and treating crime as a mental health issue. In spite of this, and unlike everywhere in the real world where Defunding Police has been tried, the citadel supposedly has "very little crime".

And unlike everywhere in the real world, they have magic.

The only context in which they mention magic in that section, however, is that in cases of severe offenses they magically mind-control a person to be unable to ever repeat the crime again. Which is quite Totalitarian and quite telling. 
I mean, saying "Defund the police works IF YOU HAVE MAGIC POWERS that you can use to BRAIN-WIPE anyone you want" is hardly what I'd call a victory for the Defund the Police movement.

I agree that it's not the message that they intend, but it does show what's possible in their fantasy (and many other people's horrorshow) world. This can actually be a horow setting if played straight.

OTOH, I have discussed before that magic could allow for altered "world laws" as in Torg. This requires adjusting expectations for how things ought to work in the setting because real world laws don't necessarily apply in the same manner. We can imagine a world with alterations to gravity, but it might be harder for us to imagine a world with objective good/evil, especially when that world defines those qualities differently than is done in the real world, but magic could allow this. I'm not talking about magic use by PC (or even NPCs). I'm talking a world where such things are created by the underlying laws of its universe (like the Weave in FR). This is, of course, more fantasy than most want to deal with.

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 22, 2022, 10:02:12 AM
Magic cannot "magically" make

You're wrong. If I make a setting and say the magic can "magically" make X, Y, or Z possible in my world, that's exactly what happens. Magic is the core of fantasy. Don't be so limited in your thinking.

EDIT: As an example, consider the Mirror Universe of Star Trek. The inhabitants of this universe are all morally hardwired toward bad behaviors and ugly morality. Is it hard to accept that perhaps the Radiant Citadel exists in a pocket that is quite the opposite because magic?

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 22, 2022, 09:47:25 AM
The only context in which they mention magic in that section, however, is that in cases of severe offenses they magically mind-control a person to be unable to ever repeat the crime again. Which is quite Totalitarian and quite telling. 

So leftists are now using A Clockwork Orange as a society blueprint as well as 1984.

Quote from: Skullking on July 22, 2022, 10:39:43 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 22, 2022, 09:47:25 AM
The only context in which they mention magic in that section, however, is that in cases of severe offenses they magically mind-control a person to be unable to ever repeat the crime again. Which is quite Totalitarian and quite telling. 

So leftists are now using A Clockwork Orange as a society blueprint as well as 1984.

And The Turner Diaries - don't forget that one.

While we are at it, can somebody tell me succinctly, and not by hearsay, what is the thing with violence in the Radiant Citadel?

- Can't people commit violence, or won't people commit violence?
- Why not? Can't because of magic or a deity, or won't because of ideology?
- Is the lack of an efficient guard a cause or a consequence of the lack of violence?
- How does this manifest itself, as in, are there no thieves' guilds or assassin's guilds at all there?

I know, probably redundant, but once summer is over, my party will probably journey through the radiant citadel, by ways of preparation I need to know the resistance they can, can't, will or won't meet.

Cheers

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:51:19 AM
While we are at it, can somebody tell me succinctly, and not by hearsay, what is the thing with violence in the Radiant Citadel?

- Can't people commit violence, or won't people commit violence?
- Why not? Can't because of magic or a deity, or won't because of ideology?
- Is the lack of an efficient guard a cause or a consequence of the lack of violence?
- How does this manifest itself, as in, are there no thieves' guilds or assassin's guilds at all there?

I know, probably redundant, but once summer is over, my party will probably journey through the radiant citadel, by ways of preparation I need to know the resistance they can, can't, will or won't meet.

Cheers

I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:51:19 AM
While we are at it, can somebody tell me succinctly, and not by hearsay, what is the thing with violence in the Radiant Citadel?

- Can't people commit violence, or won't people commit violence?
- Why not? Can't because of magic or a deity, or won't because of ideology?
- Is the lack of an efficient guard a cause or a consequence of the lack of violence?
- How does this manifest itself, as in, are there no thieves' guilds or assassin's guilds at all there?

I know, probably redundant, but once summer is over, my party will probably journey through the radiant citadel, by ways of preparation I need to know the resistance they can, can't, will or won't meet.

Cheers

I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

I don't think so, actually.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:58:57 AM

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:51:19 AM
While we are at it, can somebody tell me succinctly, and not by hearsay, what is the thing with violence in the Radiant Citadel?

- Can't people commit violence, or won't people commit violence?
- Why not? Can't because of magic or a deity, or won't because of ideology?
- Is the lack of an efficient guard a cause or a consequence of the lack of violence?
- How does this manifest itself, as in, are there no thieves' guilds or assassin's guilds at all there?

I know, probably redundant, but once summer is over, my party will probably journey through the radiant citadel, by ways of preparation I need to know the resistance they can, can't, will or won't meet.

Cheers

I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

I don't think so, actually.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/lets-create-the-non-soy-citadel/

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 11:01:53 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:58:57 AM

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:51:19 AM
While we are at it, can somebody tell me succinctly, and not by hearsay, what is the thing with violence in the Radiant Citadel?

- Can't people commit violence, or won't people commit violence?
- Why not? Can't because of magic or a deity, or won't because of ideology?
- Is the lack of an efficient guard a cause or a consequence of the lack of violence?
- How does this manifest itself, as in, are there no thieves' guilds or assassin's guilds at all there?

I know, probably redundant, but once summer is over, my party will probably journey through the radiant citadel, by ways of preparation I need to know the resistance they can, can't, will or won't meet.

Cheers

I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

I don't think so, actually.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/lets-create-the-non-soy-citadel/

I do believe the subject is touched upon here as well.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 11:12:10 AM

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 11:01:53 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:58:57 AM

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:51:19 AM
While we are at it, can somebody tell me succinctly, and not by hearsay, what is the thing with violence in the Radiant Citadel?

- Can't people commit violence, or won't people commit violence?
- Why not? Can't because of magic or a deity, or won't because of ideology?
- Is the lack of an efficient guard a cause or a consequence of the lack of violence?
- How does this manifest itself, as in, are there no thieves' guilds or assassin's guilds at all there?

I know, probably redundant, but once summer is over, my party will probably journey through the radiant citadel, by ways of preparation I need to know the resistance they can, can't, will or won't meet.

Cheers

I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

I don't think so, actually.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/lets-create-the-non-soy-citadel/

I do believe the subject is touched upon here as well.

Though more so in the indicated thread

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 11:01:53 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:58:57 AM

Quote from: Dylan on July 22, 2022, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on July 22, 2022, 10:51:19 AM
While we are at it, can somebody tell me succinctly, and not by hearsay, what is the thing with violence in the Radiant Citadel?

- Can't people commit violence, or won't people commit violence?
- Why not? Can't because of magic or a deity, or won't because of ideology?
- Is the lack of an efficient guard a cause or a consequence of the lack of violence?
- How does this manifest itself, as in, are there no thieves' guilds or assassin's guilds at all there?

I know, probably redundant, but once summer is over, my party will probably journey through the radiant citadel, by ways of preparation I need to know the resistance they can, can't, will or won't meet.

Cheers

I think you're in the wrong thread mate.

I don't think so, actually.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/lets-create-the-non-soy-citadel/

And you're wrong too, that thread isn't for discussin how does that shite works.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on July 21, 2022, 08:09:41 AM

Quote from: Omega on July 20, 2022, 10:39:47 PM

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on July 20, 2022, 10:43:51 AMor how not all Vistani are evil

(And after some of the emotional outbursts I've seen regarding Fate of Cthulhu and the Ravenloft Campaign guide, I feel like there can be as much over reactionary screeching from the grognards as there is from the danger hairs.  "See this molehill!!!  It's massive!  Massive!"  Beam in your own eye battling with monsters and all that.)

1: This is one of the more crackheaded complaints and kowtowing. Why? Because originally the Vistani were presented as mostly nice welcoming folk. In the 2e Boxed set they are just kinda there and not presented as evil. Ruthlessly strict about maintaining racial purity. And bartering information with darklords. But not evil. Same on the White Wolf 3e version.

    This is true, but it should be noted that the gypsies of I6 are evil, and that module holds an outsized influence on people's perceptions of the overall setting, especially given how many times TSR and WotC have gone back to that well.

Actually in the I6 Module what is going on is the Module presents them as friendly or neutral and I did not find any outstanding moments of them acting evil even.

BUT.

The monster entry for them at the back says they are evil. Which contradicts the module. Just ignore the monster entry as its meaningless. The woke of course will screech endlessly about how bad and wrong the whole module is. Because they never bothered to fucking read it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2022, 11:53:46 PM
Case in point, the new Radiant Citadel book has been promoted everywhere on social media with the emphasis on the book having been produced by 50 people of color, and no white people. Wizards itself has done this promotion, through spokespersons like Ajit George (the lead on this book, who until recently had practically no experience in game design).

And yet, I've now been told (note: might be inaccurate) that in the physical book itself, the one gamers will look at in stores, it doesn't mention this ANYWHERE. If true, that proves just how WoTC operates: their virtue signaling is to the Woke Twitter Mob, but then they desperately try to cover up the truth for actual customers, trying as hard as possible to pass this book off as just another great adventures book and not a piece of BLM / Defund the Police propaganda (note, by the way, the Radiant Citadel has "community policing" with restorative justice and treating crime as a mental health issue. In spite of this, and unlike everywhere in the real world where Defunding Police has been tried, the citadel supposedly has "very little crime".

Well we did predict that just based on the adventure synopsis given that What they were saying was going to be incompatible with what they were doing. And one or the other was going to be proven false.

And here we are and gosh. The "safe space" isnt as safe as they claim?

I'm waiting to hear how they actually screen the place to keep out every maniac in the universe trying to destroy or co-opt the place to evil. Assuming it isnt already.