Why kill the OGL? Why not just get another company to take over WotC tabletop responsibilities the way GDW does? this would allow them to maintain their market position while concentrating on VTT.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on January 17, 2023, 05:06:35 PM
So Hasbro is trying to ruthlessly nuke the entire TTRPG hobby and industry, so that our only option is to pay money to play some internet video game with an AI DM Chatbot?

That seems horribly depressing.

Only if you believe the "entire TTRPG hobby and industry" is D&D.

Fortunately for me, and imo - the whole hobby, this is one of the greatest things ever. Let WotC blast off and leave us be. Give them the two-finger salute as they leave our planet. Maybe we'll see some fireworks if they explode... or maybe they'll succeed and go into another realm of gaming where they'll be swimming with much bigger sharks.

Quote from: tenbones on January 18, 2023, 10:59:17 AM
Only if you believe the "entire TTRPG hobby and industry" is D&D.

Fortunately for me, and imo - the whole hobby, this is one of the greatest things ever. Let WotC blast off and leave us be. Give them the two-finger salute as they leave our planet. Maybe we'll see some fireworks if they explode... or maybe they'll succeed and go into another realm of gaming where they'll be swimming with much bigger sharks.

My current bet is on the RPG Industry and Hobby parting ways with Wizards. Although D&D as a system will still remain, probably as a good enough clone.

Even if they are truly contrite with the newest announcement their reputation is shit now. I doubt it can recover unless Wizards and its D&D IP is sold off. Even then it has to have the right team owning and leading it.

It's like they saw the complete shitshow that was nuTSR and said... 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 18, 2023, 10:52:29 AM
Why kill the OGL? Why not just get another company to take over WotC tabletop responsibilities the way GDW does? this would allow them to maintain their market position while concentrating on VTT.

That's my prediction on D&D 7th and on. Some other company will license it and print their version until the license expires, while Hasbro/Wizards view D&D's primary existence as a weird World of Warcraft with some self-server creation ability for a price.

The ttrpg will be another licensing opportunity for the brand.

Quote from: PulpHerb on January 18, 2023, 02:33:05 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 18, 2023, 10:52:29 AM
Why kill the OGL? Why not just get another company to take over WotC tabletop responsibilities the way GDW does? this would allow them to maintain their market position while concentrating on VTT.

That's my prediction on D&D 7th and on. Some other company will license it and print their version until the license expires, while Hasbro/Wizards view D&D's primary existence as a weird World of Warcraft with some self-server creation ability for a price.

The ttrpg will be another licensing opportunity for the brand.

Except they could have done so right now, before damaging the brand, who would buy the rights and at what price now? Would the contract contain some morality clause? I bet it would.

I mean if developing/selling books doesn't make enough money AND you're SO sure the future is your WoW+ clone then leave the OGL as it was, go build your VTT/WoW clone AND, IF it works as you think and you're getting money hand over fist THEN sell the rights to publish the game.

I'm not sure we're dealing with sane people, this very well might have something to do with the cult, (We must control the TTRPG industry even if it doesn't make money because it helps spread "The Message!TM" )

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2023, 02:49:43 PM

Except they could have done so right now, before damaging the brand, who would buy the rights and at what price now? Would the contract contain some morality clause? I bet it would.

For instance, they could have offered Paizo the license to publish D&D as a TTRPG, while they focus on the digital side of things, not release the next version of D&D under the OGL, and make the deal with Paizo that they don't either. That takes Paizo out of the equation as a competitor to fight them on the licensing front. Would Paizo have taken that chance, given they were already burned once? Maybe not. But with Paizo on their side, they could have then gone to de-authorize OGL 1.0a, and anyone remaining wouldn't have had the resources to fight them, and Paizo wouldn't have dared to, because they have the rights to the most popular TTRPG ever. And WotC gets to focus on merchandising.

So they posted an update. Some people are saying "they blinked" or "we won", buuuut...

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1428-a-working-conversation-about-the-open-game-license


While it does sound good by comparison, they don't address the concept of a morality clause (Which will almost assuredly exist going forward, buuuut...)

More importantly, they say that the new OGL will only be for 5E content going forward, and that the old OGL will still remain in effect for published works... But they stop short of saying you'll still be able to use the OGL 1.0a for new works, or that they don't still intend to "deauthorize" it, because they said all along that existing products would be safe.

So really, while it sounds good, they haven't materially changed much of anything yet. Except to throw a bone to Youtube content creators.

Quote from: migo on January 18, 2023, 03:07:33 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 18, 2023, 02:49:43 PM

Except they could have done so right now, before damaging the brand, who would buy the rights and at what price now? Would the contract contain some morality clause? I bet it would.

For instance, they could have offered Paizo the license to publish D&D as a TTRPG, while they focus on the digital side of things, not release the next version of D&D under the OGL, and make the deal with Paizo that they don't either. That takes Paizo out of the equation as a competitor to fight them on the licensing front. Would Paizo have taken that chance, given they were already burned once? Maybe not. But with Paizo on their side, they could have then gone to de-authorize OGL 1.0a, and anyone remaining wouldn't have had the resources to fight them, and Paizo wouldn't have dared to, because they have the rights to the most popular TTRPG ever. And WotC gets to focus on merchandising.

When the woke go after something, they don't care if it survives.  They want one of two results:  1.) It's completely, ruthlessly co-opted and controlled by their fellow travelers, or 2.) It's destroyed so that it can no longer be a haven for anyone that disagrees with them.  They are equally happy with both results.  (Some of the useless idiots that thought this time would be different and actually liked the thing for itself may care, but they aren't calling the shots.)

You can't reason with that kind of unrelenting hatred, based on a Will to Power. 

Quote from: estar on January 18, 2023, 02:14:47 PM

Quote from: tenbones on January 18, 2023, 10:59:17 AM
Only if you believe the "entire TTRPG hobby and industry" is D&D.

Fortunately for me, and imo - the whole hobby, this is one of the greatest things ever. Let WotC blast off and leave us be. Give them the two-finger salute as they leave our planet. Maybe we'll see some fireworks if they explode... or maybe they'll succeed and go into another realm of gaming where they'll be swimming with much bigger sharks.

My current bet is on the RPG Industry and Hobby parting ways with Wizards. Although D&D as a system will still remain, probably as a good enough clone.

Even if they are truly contrite with the newest announcement their reputation is shit now. I doubt it can recover unless Wizards and its D&D IP is sold off. Even then it has to have the right team owning and leading it.

That's precisely as I see it. The Overlords are in the process of pulling up stakes and leaving us behind. I'm okay with that. The current apology is meaningless in light of where they intend on going with the brand. It's allowed everyone to rouse themselves from the inertia of D&D and the OGL to realize the brand and the license aren't really what our hobby is about. Sure people will follow wherever WotC goes, but for the rest of us - "D&D" will be the euphemism we continue to use for playing TTRPG's regardless of the actual mechanics or systems we use.

Quote from: tenbones on January 18, 2023, 03:38:01 PM
"D&D" will be the euphemism we continue to use for playing TTRPG's regardless of the actual mechanics or systems we use.

D&D, the Kleenex™ of tabletop roleplaying.

Quote from: migo on January 18, 2023, 03:07:33 PM
For instance, they could have offered Paizo the license to publish D&D as a TTRPG, while they focus on the digital side of things, not release the next version of D&D under the OGL, and make the deal with Paizo that they don't either. That takes Paizo out of the equation as a competitor to fight them on the licensing front. Would Paizo have taken that chance, given they were already burned once? Maybe not. But with Paizo on their side, they could have then gone to de-authorize OGL 1.0a, and anyone remaining wouldn't have had the resources to fight them, and Paizo wouldn't have dared to, because they have the rights to the most popular TTRPG ever. And WotC gets to focus on merchandising.

If I was running Wizards I would divide the company into Digital and Tabletop. The Tabletop group (including Magic) makes more money than Hasbro so why throw that away for curtain number 3? Stupid move. Have a skeleton crew run Tabletop but keep that going.

Quote from: Ruprecht on January 18, 2023, 04:50:40 PM

Quote from: migo on January 18, 2023, 03:07:33 PM
For instance, they could have offered Paizo the license to publish D&D as a TTRPG, while they focus on the digital side of things, not release the next version of D&D under the OGL, and make the deal with Paizo that they don't either. That takes Paizo out of the equation as a competitor to fight them on the licensing front. Would Paizo have taken that chance, given they were already burned once? Maybe not. But with Paizo on their side, they could have then gone to de-authorize OGL 1.0a, and anyone remaining wouldn't have had the resources to fight them, and Paizo wouldn't have dared to, because they have the rights to the most popular TTRPG ever. And WotC gets to focus on merchandising.

If I was running Wizards I would divide the company into Digital and Tabletop. The Tabletop group (including Magic) makes more money than Hasbro so why throw that away for curtain number 3? Stupid move. Have a skeleton crew run Tabletop but keep that going.

You sir are clearly unfit to run the company what with all these ethics and common sense. Do you even have an MBA?!

Quote from: Bruwulf on January 18, 2023, 03:14:05 PM
So they posted an update. Some people are saying "they blinked" or "we won", buuuut...

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1428-a-working-conversation-about-the-open-game-license


While it does sound good by comparison, they don't address the concept of a morality clause (Which will almost assuredly exist going forward, buuuut...)

More importantly, they say that the new OGL will only be for 5E content going forward, and that the old OGL will still remain in effect for published works... But they stop short of saying you'll still be able to use the OGL 1.0a for new works, or that they don't still intend to "deauthorize" it, because they said all along that existing products would be safe.

So really, while it sounds good, they haven't materially changed much of anything yet. Except to throw a bone to Youtube content creators.

Brink is the sacrificial anode. Which is a shame because he is a former Spectrum-Holobytecand Microprose guy and I have a soft spot in my heart for Falcon 3.0 and F-15 Strike Eagle.

The *key* words are "...have published..." when talking about OGL 1.0a. That's present perfect tense.  That implies *only* that if you publish something under it, it's all good. It does *nothing* to indicate that new stuff for new editions will be allowed to be published under 1.0a, nor that if you accept the update to publish new edition stuff, you'll still be allowed to use 1.0a for older editions.  The great unknown is whether or not you can publish under 1.0a simultaneously with the new version or if you'll be in the same boat as when the GSL cancer came on the scene.

Bottom line - WotC is still trying to rearrange the decks chairs.  Those who've decided to bail on them need to hold firm in that decision.

Quote from: 3catcircus on January 18, 2023, 07:58:58 PM

Quote from: Bruwulf on January 18, 2023, 03:14:05 PM
So they posted an update. Some people are saying "they blinked" or "we won", buuuut...

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1428-a-working-conversation-about-the-open-game-license


While it does sound good by comparison, they don't address the concept of a morality clause (Which will almost assuredly exist going forward, buuuut...)

More importantly, they say that the new OGL will only be for 5E content going forward, and that the old OGL will still remain in effect for published works... But they stop short of saying you'll still be able to use the OGL 1.0a for new works, or that they don't still intend to "deauthorize" it, because they said all along that existing products would be safe.

So really, while it sounds good, they haven't materially changed much of anything yet. Except to throw a bone to Youtube content creators.

Brink is the sacrificial anode. Which is a shame because he is a former Spectrum-Holobytecand Microprose guy and I have a soft spot in my heart for Falcon 3.0 and F-15 Strike Eagle.

The *key* words are "...have published..." when talking about OGL 1.0a. That's present perfect tense.  That implies *only* that if you publish something under it, it's all good. It does *nothing* to indicate that new stuff for new editions will be allowed to be published under 1.0a, nor that if you accept the update to publish new edition stuff, you'll still be allowed to use 1.0a for older editions.  The great unknown is whether or not you can publish under 1.0a simultaneously with the new version or if you'll be in the same boat as when the GSL cancer came on the scene.

Bottom line - WotC is still trying to rearrange the decks chairs.  Those who've decided to bail on them need to hold firm in that decision.

DnD Shorts is basically agreeing on Brink as a sacrificial lamb... also that its a batch of mealy mouthed weasel words that don't actually mean a thing and the idea of the survey is try and get the talk off Twitter, Reddit and Social Media and onto a format they control and can keep quiet.