So I was at my local chain bookstore the other day and they're offering "Buy one D&D product, get the second for half off."  Just curious if others have seen this where they live?  Could be the first/next stage in eliminating physical products in stores.  And as far as I could tell, it was D&D stuff only, not all RPGs, though probably 90% of their stock is D&D.

D&D sales are currently the worse they've ever been. Granted, it's still the biggest seller in the industry, and that has to be kept in mind... But sales of books are at the lowest they've ever been since 5th edition released.

But that same sale might be because the new edition is releasing next year, and your retailer is trying to get rid of backstock which is even more likely to sit on the shelf once it becomes outdated. Cause no matter how WotC tries to brand it as "Backwards compatiable" we all know that's gonna be a lie.

That combined with Hasbro basically firing everyone who works on D&D doesn't bode well for the brand as a whole.

I think two things might be happening.

With 5.5 on the visible horizon, its sell through current stock or get the 'dead stock' back.

With changes in their distribution, it could well be that related (and soon to be ex) partners are being told to sell through for the same reason. But with them, there is no 'stock rotation' for new books.

Quote from: Orphan81 on December 20, 2023, 06:37:36 PM
Cause no matter how WotC tries to brand it as "Backwards compatiable" we all know that's gonna be a lie.

Are you saying WOTC would lie to us? How dare you!   

To answer the question, Yes I think they are trying to clear out all of the physical stock.  I would doubt the next version will have any print items because WOTC wants to turn it into a video game

All I know is that my FLGS had 30-60% discounts on nearly every D&D product from the past two years as part of their holiday sale a couple of weekends back.

Quote from: Orphan81 on December 20, 2023, 06:37:36 PM
D&D sales are currently the worse they've ever been. Granted, it's still the biggest seller in the industry, and that has to be kept in mind... But sales of books are at the lowest they've ever been since 5th edition released.

I believe D&D sales are the worst since 5th edition released, but it's also true that 5th edition has been the most successful edition of D&D ever. Just about every RPG company has to deal with the edition treadmill. Sales are the highest shortly after a new edition is released. After the core books are released, newer books appeal to a smaller and smaller fraction of the player base, because no one wants to play a game that requires twenty books.

This has held just as true of every other major RPG as D&D. After there are dozens of sourcebooks already out, and GMs have a variety of established campaigns, it's impossible for the publisher to make a "must have" book that everyone wants to buy... unless they go to a new edition. There's an in-depth analysis of it here, using data from BookScan.

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/10/09/are-dd-sales-declining/

The big question is how the new edition turns out. Hasbro as a whole seems to be in trouble, but D&D seems to be doing OK as a brand. It may well downturn if the new edition isn't handled well, though.

Quote from: GhostNinja on December 20, 2023, 07:22:40 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on December 20, 2023, 06:37:36 PM
Cause no matter how WotC tries to brand it as "Backwards compatiable" we all know that's gonna be a lie.

Are you saying WOTC would lie to us? How dare you!   

To answer the question, Yes I think they are trying to clear out all of the physical stock.  I would doubt the next version will have any print items because WOTC wants to turn it into a video game

I expect to see print copies of the new, improved, better than ever 3 Core Rulebooks.  Probably a set of standard covers, and a set of alternate covers.  Beyond that, probably just online updates?

Quote from: jhkim on December 20, 2023, 09:25:54 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on December 20, 2023, 06:37:36 PM
D&D sales are currently the worse they've ever been. Granted, it's still the biggest seller in the industry, and that has to be kept in mind... But sales of books are at the lowest they've ever been since 5th edition released.

I believe D&D sales are the worst since 5th edition released, but it's also true that 5th edition has been the most successful edition of D&D ever. Just about every RPG company has to deal with the edition treadmill. Sales are the highest shortly after a new edition is released. After the core books are released, newer books appeal to a smaller and smaller fraction of the player base, because no one wants to play a game that requires twenty books.

This has held just as true of every other major RPG as D&D. After there are dozens of sourcebooks already out, and GMs have a variety of established campaigns, it's impossible for the publisher to make a "must have" book that everyone wants to buy... unless they go to a new edition. There's an in-depth analysis of it here, using data from BookScan.

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/10/09/are-dd-sales-declining/

The big question is how the new edition turns out. Hasbro as a whole seems to be in trouble, but D&D seems to be doing OK as a brand. It may well downturn if the new edition isn't handled well, though.

Jesus fucking Christ Jhkim, are you so autistic that I have to point out when I say "The worst they've ever been" I have to explicitly specify "Of course I mean 5th edition, and not when the company nearly went bankrupt in the TSR days." Like are you actually adding anything to this discussion or just here to point out the obvious we all fucking know and don't need to have reiterated?

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on December 20, 2023, 07:29:19 PM
All I know is that my FLGS had 30-60% discounts on nearly every D&D product from the past two years as part of their holiday sale a couple of weekends back.

They could discount that shit 100% and it would still be too expensive.

I'm a bit confused on the edition treadmill thing. I'd normally assume that market saturation would drive down sales, as jhkim seems to be suggesting. But Orphan81 makes a good point about the new edition driving sales prospectively, as folks want to get rid of the old edition. Do we believe that their sales are currently under negative or positive pressure overall?

Also, I personally agree with Orphan81 that current firings seem to indicate a bad workforce for producing a solid 5e new edition. (I had assumed it was just 5.5 with negligible changes and an attempt at pushing players and dms to shell out regularly for digital subscription. But I guess with all the firings they could also well be planning a gameplay shift. And it wasn't a great plan to start with.) Since WotC seems to be banking on that, as expressed by jhkim, it seems likely the odds are against them doing well in the future regardless.

Are they doing well as a brand in the short term, though, or at least able to sell themselves that way? I guess they have BG3, and Magic, but with recent firings, and with the rest of their divisions' recent quarters, I'm not so sure. (Though I guess they could maybe pull the edition treadmill card in theory as an attempted explanation to shareholders? I don't know, kind of weird to think about.)

Quote from: Orphan81 on December 20, 2023, 10:01:36 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 20, 2023, 09:25:54 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on December 20, 2023, 06:37:36 PM
D&D sales are currently the worse they've ever been. Granted, it's still the biggest seller in the industry, and that has to be kept in mind... But sales of books are at the lowest they've ever been since 5th edition released.

I believe D&D sales are the worst since 5th edition released, but it's also true that 5th edition has been the most successful edition of D&D ever. Just about every RPG company has to deal with the edition treadmill. Sales are the highest shortly after a new edition is released. After the core books are released, newer books appeal to a smaller and smaller fraction of the player base, because no one wants to play a game that requires twenty books.

This has held just as true of every other major RPG as D&D. After there are dozens of sourcebooks already out, and GMs have a variety of established campaigns, it's impossible for the publisher to make a "must have" book that everyone wants to buy... unless they go to a new edition. There's an in-depth analysis of it here, using data from BookScan.

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/10/09/are-dd-sales-declining/

The big question is how the new edition turns out. Hasbro as a whole seems to be in trouble, but D&D seems to be doing OK as a brand. It may well downturn if the new edition isn't handled well, though.

Jesus fucking Christ Jhkim, are you so autistic that I have to point out when I say "The worst they've ever been" I have to explicitly specify "Of course I mean 5th edition, and not when the company nearly went bankrupt in the TSR days." Like are you actually adding anything to this discussion or just here to point out the obvious we all fucking know and don't need to have reiterated?

As an ACTUAL autist I find this offensive, Jhkim isn't autistic, he's just engaging in his usual whataboutism, at this point it's second nature and he doesn't even notice when he does it.

I agree with the "new edition coming" reasoning.

If the new 2024 Core Books sell like Hotcakes, some people on this forum will need therapy sessions.

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 21, 2023, 04:52:00 PM
If the new 2024 Core Books sell like Hotcakes, some people on this forum will need therapy sessions.

They will.

Quote from: VisionStorm on December 21, 2023, 06:32:08 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 21, 2023, 04:52:00 PM
If the new 2024 Core Books sell like Hotcakes, some people on this forum will need therapy sessions.

They will.

So you'd potentially say the sheep-like minds of the brand loyalists and wokists will fall for it? Or something?

Or at least enough will that it can counteract edition treadmill effects, the availability of near substitutes, and a potentially more incompetent writing/workforce?

I might be willing to believe that, though I wouldn't exactly call it likely post-OGL and the like.

Actually, just in general I'd be interested to hear your specific reasoning on this topic. More perspective is always nice to have.