Little late. But this was brought to my attention. Chris Perkins in an interview at a con mentioned the following.
QuoteOn the next storyline -- That's a tough one to answer. To a certain extent, obtusely, I've already answered it with the three things I called attention to. Once could speculate based on what I've told you what might happen.... we do have an upcoming story that does go back to a past adventure... doesn't feature dragons, so it won't be anything from the Dragonlance saga... I think it's safe to say if you look at the things we haven't played with yet which are fairly intrinsic to D&D [he asked the audience to suggest D&D monsters, and the vampire is shouted out] ... the vampire has been around in D&D, it's not a unique D&D monster by any stretch, but we would be remiss if we didn't do something with vampires at some point. I can almost assure you that we will get around to doing that. Certainly gothic ... and Victorian, and that sort of feel.. the question is all about timing. When is the time to do it? When is it going to surprise and delight the most people?
Does sound a little like Ravenloft?
Heres the attendant En-World article.
WotC-s-Chris-Perkins-Talks-About-Everything!-Upcoming-Storylines-Products-Staffing-Other-Worlds-More! (http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?3033-WotC-s-Chris-Perkins-Talks-About-Everything!-Upcoming-Storylines-Products-Staffing-Other-Worlds-More!#.Vm631V7E3KG)
Also liked this part at the start.
QuoteGone are the days, in 3rd and 4th Edition, when we were bound by the model of having to release a book a month or two books a month, or three books a month. We have no commitment or desire to do that going forward.
The way things are going, it will likely be an undead-themed campaign set in the fucking Forgotten Realms.
I can see Hasbro wanting to focus on pimping all their Forgotten Realms related properties. Can't have a product out there that doesn't fit into the MMO, right?
EDIT: To be clear, I would LOVE a new Ravenloft book for 5e. I have tons of 2nd ed stuff already, but, well, you know.
According to Perkins the plan is to move away from the Forgotten Realms and visit other locales. Dragonlance is not slated for anytime soon as they dont want to do another dragon themed adventure.
I'm still glad 'Out of the Abyss' wasn't exactly OH NOES ANOTHER CULT after the first two.
Calling out the video game is a fair point - if they did a storyline that was Ravenloft focused, they would benefit from having it be FR-tied somehow (somehow). The online game will do its take on the story; D&D Adventurers' League (organized play) will want it to stay FR-tied, too.
I certainly would be interested in 5E Ravenloft but only if they do the complete setting. If it is subsumed into forgotten realms or just a one-off, I'll likely pass on it (unless the one off is incredible). I can totally understand if WotC just can't split its focus on new setting material. But in my view they are better off not even calling it Ravenloft if it is just an adventure or if it is just something horror themed in the Forgotten Realms.
Strahd: Dead and Loving It
Is it wrong of my to want Undermountain back?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;869335Is it wrong of my to want Undermountain back?
Only if they rename it something less stupid. And the Underdark too.
Im surprised there isnt an Belowwater and an Overspace and a...
I never played in Ravenloft but always wanted to.
Isn't Ravenloft a "pocket dimension" that the PCs fall into? Or am I completely confusing it with another setting? If so, there's your tie in for the video game as extra downloadable content.
I vote for Ravenloft also, I think I might have a better chance of playing it with 5e updated version (more interest form other players).
I don't see how it could be anything other than Ravenloft.
If I had to guess, it'll start as a remake of I6 Ravenloft set in the FR, and eventually drag PCs into the Demiplane of Dread.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;869377I never played in Ravenloft but always wanted to.
Isn't Ravenloft a "pocket dimension" that the PCs fall into? Or am I completely confusing it with another setting? If so, there's your tie in for the video game as extra downloadable content.
I vote for Ravenloft also, I think I might have a better chance of playing it with 5e updated version (more interest form other players).
Ravenloft is a demi-plane within the ethereal plane. It can occasionally bump into other worlds, taking inhabitants to its domains, or even appearing briefly in a sort of conjunction (where a place from Ravenloft might temporarily be in the forgotten realms or some other location). Players characters can be drawn into Ravenloft by its mists. So the common scenario is a party is present when a great evil is committed (or they commit it themselves), mists rise and when they clear the group finds itself in Ravenloft.
Quote from: Omega;869363Only if they rename it something less stupid. And the Underdark too.
Im surprised there isnt an Belowwater and an Overspace and a...
...Have you seen what we real people name our places? Do we need to dig up that thread again? Please, Undermountain is nothing compared to Beaverlick, KY. Wankers Corner, OR. Te Urewera NZ (Which is Moari for Burnt Penis.) There's a village in Sussex called Upper Dicker. Please, get over it.
Quote from: RPGPundit;869301Strahd: Dead and Loving It
I'd buy it.
jg
Quote from: Omega;869363Only if they rename it something less stupid. And the Underdark too.
Im surprised there isnt an Belowwater and an Overspace and a...
Feh. Its supposed to be an Anglish (http://anglish.wikia.com/wiki/Main_leaf) style composite word and while there wasn't an Overspace there was a Wildspace in Spelljammer BTW.
My guess would something like a Forgotten Realms equivalent of the Carrion Crown adventure path (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/carrionCrown) for Pathfinder. It's classic horror/gothic themed but set on Golarion.
Ravenloft was the first of the D&D adventure board games.
Not sure where Wrath of Ashardalon is set.
The last one is apparently set on Dri'zzt because hes so awesome he has become a location now? ahem...
So nominally Ravenloft there is a location in the realms and no-longer a plane.
The original module didn't take place in its own plane. That came later with the Ravenloft setting. Barovia was a location that could be dropped into any D&D world.
Quote from: yosemitemike;869479The original module didn't take place in its own plane. That came later with the Ravenloft setting. Barovia was a location that could be dropped into any D&D world.
And that is the only Ravenloft I really know or like.
Quote from: yosemitemike;869479The original module didn't take place in its own plane. That came later with the Ravenloft setting. Barovia was a location that could be dropped into any D&D world.
And the setting preserved that by allowing portions of Ravenloft to slip into other settings.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;869497And the setting preserved that by allowing portions of Ravenloft to slip into other settings.
The Barovia in the Ravenloft setting is a long way from the version in the module. It went from a small valley with one town and a castle to a whole country.
I hope we see Ravenloft make a comeback in 5e. It's the only official D&D setting I like. Forgotten Realms is over-exposed and Dragonlance just blows in my opinion.
Hell, I'd like the 5e system expand into other genres as well.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;869511Hell, I'd like the 5e system expand into other genres as well.
Theres a UA article over on the WOTC site on converting 3e's Urban Arcana over to 5e.
Quote from: Doc Sammy;869511Hell, I'd like the 5e system expand into other genres as well.
I always liked the idea of XCrawl (http://www.goodman-games.com/GMGP2000preview.html).
I would like to see a swords and planet type setting for 5e.
I've tinkered with making one that has magic and whatnot, but is tied to a future earth through space travel and a Prime Directive ala the L. Sprague de Camp "Krishna" novrls.
Come spend a night in Dildo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ssrm-aLGNw), if you've got the time...
Quote from: RPGPundit;869816Come spend a night in Dildo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ssrm-aLGNw), if you've got the time...
Painsville. etc.
Doesnt make Underdark Undermountain Wildspace, and about 90% of the FR place names any less over-used and unimaginative.
Back on topic.
Aside from the big V himself and his castle. What other non-demiplane elements of Ravenloft do you think are integral to the setting?
Quote from: Omega;869844Aside from the big V himself and his castle. What other non-demiplane elements of Ravenloft do you think are integral to the setting?
The isolation created by the mists and the PC's inability to leave until Strahd is dealt with are pretty integral.
Quote from: Omega;869844Aside from the big V himself and his castle. What other non-demiplane elements of Ravenloft do you think are integral to the setting?
This might be a demi-plane element, but powers checks are and the transformation of evil characters into creatures is pretty essential for me. Mists are key too. But in terms of just basic aspects of the setting that are not related to its demiplane nature:
1) Azlin and Darkon (even though they kind of got rid of him, for me the setting lost something when they altered Darkon).
2) KArtakass and Harkon Lukas: I used this domain more than any other I think. I think they fleshed it out just enough in Feast of Goblyns that you have enough to go on as a GM but not so much detail that there isn't room for inventing new things to surprise your players. Plus, I love the musical angle of the domain.
3) Lamordia, Tepest, Forlorn, Mordent, invidia and Valachan are all domains I found easy to incorporate into play. Don't know why. I think the core as they established it after the Grand Conjunction generally works pretty well. There is a nice balance of places. Hazlan and Nova Vaasa were the only domains that really never quite fit for me.
4) Not everyone will agree with this, but I think for me the Hammer Monster and Universal Monster approach is what made Ravenloft work. I either picture it as a Peter Cushing monster hunter type setting or a black and white universal type setting. The cliches and camp are part of the fun for me. And I find some of that stuff can lower the player's defenses a bit.
5) The Van Richten Guides. I think the Van Richten books (from the TSR days not the ones they put out by the weathermays/foxgroves for d20---Generally speaking the d20 books just didn't do it for me at all) are really important for running the setting. I was clueless as a GM with Ravenloft before I picked up the Van Richten Guides. But they pretty clearly present a campaign approach based on monster hunts and investigations (and give you a bunch of tools and ideas).
oooh? WOTC is putting out teasers for the next product,
(http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/1256/1256340.jpg)
Called "Innocence".
Style a little like the Ravenloft boxed set I have. And has her neck been nibbled? Looks so? And someone else pointed out that the curtains behind her look suggestive of fangs.
Quote from: Omega;873838oooh? WOTC is putting out teasers for the next product
QuoteCalled "Innocence".
Style a little like the Ravenloft boxed set I have. And has her neck been nibbled? Looks so? And someone else pointed out that the curtains behind her look suggestive of fangs.
So far everything 5e has been Forgotten Realms, with recurring places, factions and characters for organized play; Ravenloft would be a bit of a departure from that, wouldn't it? But that image does suggest vampire to me as well, and after dragons, elemental cults and demons, having undead and vampires in particular as the villains would not be surprising.
Curse of Strahd apparently coming in March. Somewhat smaller in scope than previous adventures is the word.
Well, it's not like Strahd wants to take over the world, is he? That makes it smaller in scope.
Quote from: One Horse Town;873902Curse of Strahd apparently coming in March. Somewhat smaller in scope than previous adventures is the word.
I might actually buy 5e for that.
Quote from: rawma;873849So far everything 5e has been Forgotten Realms
Quote from: One Horse Town;873902Curse of Strahd apparently coming in March. Somewhat smaller in scope than previous adventures is the word.
The original Ravenloft module was set in Greyhawk. The old Strahd's Possession PC game from SSI had PCs start off in the Forgotten Realms only to be quickly whisked away to the Demiplane of Dread. There's no reason to believe a chunk of the new module won't be set in the Realms, with the action eventually moving to Strahd's home turf.
If they keep the 2E Ravenloft Material intact, then there is nothing to stop Strahd from appearing in the realms. Pretty much any place in Ravenloft can have a conjunction with another world and appear temporarily. Though it is possible this is a complete reboot (maybe they are going to start Strand in the realms and work from there if they want to expand it).
According to the ENWorld writeup of this, the PCs are sent to Strahd's realm by Madam Eva (an existing Ravenloft NPC), through the use of a tarokka deck.
I guess the idea is that the PCs are summoned from the Realms (or a pre-existing campaign world) using the deck, and then either go home at the end of the adventure or stay in Ravenloft depending on how things go and the desires of the group. That'd let Adventurer's League folks play for a bit in Ravenloft without having to mint all-new PCs, and it'd also help sell the campaign to people who might not be interested in a long-term Ravenloft campaign but might want to run it as a momentary departure from their existing campaign world, whilst at the same time premiering Ravenloft for 5E and paving the way for a setting book.
Quote from: Warthur;873961According to the ENWorld writeup of this, the PCs are sent to Strahd's realm by Madam Eva (an existing Ravenloft NPC), through the use of a tarokka deck.
I guess the idea is that the PCs are summoned from the Realms (or a pre-existing campaign world) using the deck, and then either go home at the end of the adventure or stay in Ravenloft depending on how things go and the desires of the group. That'd let Adventurer's League folks play for a bit in Ravenloft without having to mint all-new PCs, and it'd also help sell the campaign to people who might not be interested in a long-term Ravenloft campaign but might want to run it as a momentary departure from their existing campaign world, whilst at the same time premiering Ravenloft for 5E and paving the way for a setting book.
That sounds pretty good to me.
I'd love if WotC did something similar for
Planescape!
Quote from: Akrasia;873968That sounds pretty good to me.
I'd love if WotC did something similar for Planescape!
It feels like that's their strategy.
Considering that any major storyline they put out needs to be joined at the hip with a set of Adventurer's League adventures, and since Mearls has cited Planescape along with Ravenloft as being amongst the top tier of settings in terms of popularity, it makes sense to do it this way:
- Start out with the Realms to establish the League, and to have a setting you can easily crank out small self-contained League adventures for to keep things ticking over between major storylines.
- Roll out Ravenloft to test the waters for doing world-hopping adventures with the Adventurer's League, and to have a sharp change of pace and tone after the run of Realms adventures.
- After that (and after any Realms stuff that could do with being put out in the interim), do Planescape to establish a more wide-ranging basis for world-hopping.
- Once Planescape is in the mix, rolling out other campaign worlds is simple: Adventurer's League PCs originating in other campaign worlds can simply be assumed to have travelled there via Sigil.
I agree. It does feel like a serious testing of the waters going on here.
Boom, here we go. Press release (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/return-ravenloft) and product page (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/curse-strahd).
Gale Force 9 will apparently be producing a physical Tarokka deck as a tie-in product, which I imagine will be handy even for Ravenloft old-timers whose old decks are either lost or battered by the rigours of play (or who never got a physical deck back when they were available in the old boxed set to begin with).
As expected, there'll be a run of Adventurer's League adventures set in Ravenloft too. No word on a setting book yet, but given the way the Forgotten Realms release schedule work that's no surprise.
Incidentally, I love the cover art - it's a real aesthetic shift from the Forgotten Realms adventures, Strahd looks like an utter badass, and with that costume he manages to look like a truly archetypal vampire without just turning into "Count Dracula transposed to D&D", which a lot of the earlier Strahd art made him resemble.
In particular, I like that the cover art isn't "kewl powerz unleashed during a badass combat sequence" - Strahd is sat back in his throne, scattering cards to the wind, with a sardonic smirk on his face radiating dark power. It absolutely screams Ravenloft to me, and for the new generation coming to Ravenloft for the first time via this route seeing that cover art will instantly say "You aren't in [whatever the Realms equivalent of Kansas is] any more, kiddo".
Quote from: Warthur;874100Boom, here we go. Press release (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/return-ravenloft) and product page (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/curse-strahd).
Gale Force 9 will apparently be producing a physical Tarokka deck as a tie-in product, which I imagine will be handy even for Ravenloft old-timers whose old decks are either lost or battered by the rigours of play (or who never got a physical deck back when they were available in the old boxed set to begin with).
As expected, there'll be a run of Adventurer's League adventures set in Ravenloft too. No word on a setting book yet, but given the way the Forgotten Realms release schedule work that's no surprise.
Oh man, I need a new Tarokka Deck for sure.
This clinches it for me. I will be running 5E after all.
Quote from: Warthur;874101Incidentally, I love the cover art - it's a real aesthetic shift from the Forgotten Realms adventures, Strahd looks like an utter badass, and with that costume he manages to look like a truly archetypal vampire without just turning into "Count Dracula transposed to D&D", which a lot of the earlier Strahd art made him resemble.
In particular, I like that the cover art isn't "kewl powerz unleashed during a badass combat sequence" - Strahd is sat back in his throne, scattering cards to the wind, with a sardonic smirk on his face radiating dark power. It absolutely screams Ravenloft to me, and for the new generation coming to Ravenloft for the first time via this route seeing that cover art will instantly say "You aren't in [whatever the Realms equivalent of Kansas is] any more, kiddo".
Uh... he looks like Dracula transposed to D&D to me... It's got the classic languid pose of the prototypical vampire god, the calmness of knowing he's the master of his realm. Just like Vlad Tepes should be. Yes, pretty badass, but... I'm not seeing why this isn't Dracula in D&D.
The issue I think will be exactly as you describe, though. It will PLAY like a romp in any other dungeon, only this time there's a famously named gamer NPC at the end of it.
People will look at the cover and be surprised that it'll play nothing like the cover suggests.
Hope I'm wrong... But I doubt it.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;874114Uh... he looks like Dracula transposed to D&D to me... It's got the classic languid pose of the prototypical vampire god, the calmness of knowing he's the master of his realm. Just like Vlad Tepes should be. Yes, pretty badass, but... I'm not seeing why this isn't Dracula in D&D.
t.
To me it looks like Lestat transposed to D&D, wearing a dracula cape :) But whatever the case, Strahd has always been Dracula with a thin coat of D&D paint. Originality was never a hallmark of Ravenloft. It was more about capturing the Hammer and Universal vibe. I kind of liked that Ravenloft split the character concept though, so Vlad Tepes is Drakov while Strahd is the more iconic Bela Lugosi type Dracula.
Quote from: Warthur;874100As expected, there'll be a run of Adventurer's League adventures set in Ravenloft too. No word on a setting book yet, but given the way the Forgotten Realms release schedule work that's no surprise.
Typically the player's guide is released right before the season, which will start in mid-March; I don't know how much advance information stores and GMs get. I didn't expect that Adventurer's League would do Ravenloft, since organized play always has at least a strong connection to the Forgotten Realms factions (depending on your rank in your faction, you can use downtime for various benefits) but I suppose faction contacts can also be in Barovia.
Quote from: Warthur;874101with that costume he manages to look like a truly archetypal vampire without just turning into "Count Dracula transposed to D&D", which a lot of the earlier Strahd art made him resemble.
I didn't play Ravenloft back when, but a quick search of images of Strahd made me think of cosplays of the Count from Sesame Street. There's enough in that cover to suggest typical vampires without being a Bela Lugosi caricature.
QuoteIn particular, I like that the cover art isn't "kewl powerz unleashed during a badass combat sequence"
"You'll have to do something other than gigantic battles" is probably a good message to send.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;874114It will PLAY like a romp in any other dungeon, only this time there's a famously named gamer NPC at the end of it.
People will look at the cover and be surprised that it'll play nothing like the cover suggests.
Hope I'm wrong... But I doubt it.
Ultimately characters are going to swing weapons, cast spells, and use class features; but the first three AL seasons all played differently from each other, at least in my experience. "In between fighting, interact with minions of evil in ways that aren't always kill or be killed" would be enough to match the tone of the cover.
For character levels 1-10. So does that mean you're gonna get from 1st to 10th in one frickin adventure. If this is just Ravenloft rehashed, that's pretty damn fast, the play area of the original wasn't anywhere near that big.
Quote from: CRKrueger;874136For character levels 1-10. So does that mean you're gonna get from 1st to 10th in one frickin adventure. If this is just Ravenloft rehashed, that's pretty damn fast, the play area of the original wasn't anywhere near that big.
Out of the Abyss is 1-15, if anything this is slower paced for the same amount of time.
Quote from: CRKrueger;874136For character levels 1-10. So does that mean you're gonna get from 1st to 10th in one frickin adventure. If this is just Ravenloft rehashed, that's pretty damn fast, the play area of the original wasn't anywhere near that big.
Word is that this time the adventure is going to offer a lot more detail and depth on Barovia itself.
I'm glad that I was wrong! Looking forward to this.
And for the Tarokka deck. I've been searching for the first one for a while now: can't seem to get my hands on them!!
Quote from: CRKrueger;874136For character levels 1-10. So does that mean you're gonna get from 1st to 10th in one frickin adventure. If this is just Ravenloft rehashed, that's pretty damn fast, the play area of the original wasn't anywhere near that big.
On 5e you level up from 1-5 relatively quick. Then it slows down more and more at each tier. If there is alot of talking going on. And there likely is. Then the whole campaign could take a good while. Hoard of the Dragon Queen got the party to just short of level 10. And that took quite a few sessions.
Quote from: Necrozius;874189I'm glad that I was wrong! Looking forward to this.
And for the Tarokka deck. I've been searching for the first one for a while now: can't seem to get my hands on them!!
I'm underwhelmed with the art for the new deck, but I do have the old one around here somewhere. Are they the same in terms of number and names?
Quote from: Saplatt;874799I'm underwhelmed with the art for the new deck, but I do have the old one around here somewhere. Are they the same in terms of number and names?
It looks pretty good to me. The Fabian art was something special, but he left on very bad terms I believe. I do miss that aesthetic for the setting though.
Quote from: Saplatt;874799I'm underwhelmed with the art for the new deck, but I do have the old one around here somewhere. Are they the same in terms of number and names?
Aside from an allergy to gendered language and changing Esper to Seer, the deck structure is identical to the 2E deck. ( And nearly identical to the 3E deck, but that deck dropped Esper and added Hero.)
Regardless of how you feel about gendered language in general, avoiding it for the purpose of the deck makes sense; "Monarch" is specific enough to be a meaningful symbol but is broad enough to apply to a range of people in a range of situations, and making it gender-neutral enhances the latter quality compared to "King/Queen" without undermining the former.
Quote from: Warthur;874830"Monarch" is specific enough to be a meaningful symbol but is broad enough to apply to a range of people in a range of situations, and making it gender-neutral enhances the latter quality compared to "King/Queen" without undermining the former.
'King' and 'Queen' are more illustrative and romantic than 'Monarch' though... as are 'Emperor' and 'Empress' in the RW Tarot.
Quote from: Warthur;874830Regardless of how you feel about gendered language in general, avoiding it for the purpose of the deck makes sense; "Monarch" is specific enough to be a meaningful symbol but is broad enough to apply to a range of people in a range of situations, and making it gender-neutral enhances the latter quality compared to "King/Queen" without undermining the former.
True. But the imagery hasn't changed, only the words. "Hooded Man" is now "Hooded One", "Guildsman" is "Guild Member", "Hangman" is "Executioner" and " Temptress" is "Tempter", but all the images are fundamentally the same for those cards
It is a change and a noticeable pattern; beyond that, make of it what you will.
Quote from: Simlasa;874839'King' and 'Queen' are more illustrative and romantic than 'Monarch' though... as are 'Emperor' and 'Empress' in the RW Tarot.
I dunno, I think 'monarch' has a nice abstract grandeur to it, and even a faint villainy about it that works for the setting.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;874854True. But the imagery hasn't changed, only the words. "Hooded Man" is now "Hooded One", "Guildsman" is "Guild Member", "Hangman" is "Executioner" and " Temptress" is "Tempter", but all the images are fundamentally the same for those cards
It is a change and a noticeable pattern; beyond that, make of it what you will.
Huh, that does seem kind of pointless. Still, a tarokka deck's a tarokka deck, and since my 2E one went walkabout this will be useful for me even if they never put out more 5E Ravenloft stuff.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;874854"Hooded Man" is now "Hooded One", "Guildsman" is "Guild Member", "Hangman" is "Executioner" and " Temptress" is "Tempter", but all the images are fundamentally the same for those cards
"Temptress" has different connotations than "Tempter". The others seem about the same, and "Executioner" is perhaps even better for being a little more general.
Quote from: Necrozius;874189I'm glad that I was wrong! Looking forward to this.
And for the Tarokka deck. I've been searching for the first one for a while now: can't seem to get my hands on them!!
They are around but even used ones go for an insane amount of money. It would actually be cheaper for me to go to deviantart and commission a full set with one of a kind, original art than it would be to buy one of those.
White Wolf also did a Tarokka Deck, art by Talon Dunning.
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd10/Yaoi_Huntress_Earth/ravenlf2.jpg)
Equally hard to come by.
Tarokka decks are silly, they should just have used Tarot decks.
Quote from: RPGPundit;876045Tarokka decks are silly, they should just have used Tarot decks.
Yeah it's just a hold over from when D&D was trying to avoid the whole satanism thing
Quote from: RPGPundit;876045Tarokka decks are silly, they should just have used Tarot decks.
Wait, you want gamers to accept something DIFFERENT? Are you mad?
Quote from: Christopher Brady;876064Wait, you want gamers to accept something DIFFERENT? Are you mad?
No no. He wants gamers to accept something NOT different. Obviously TSR did it wrong by coming up with their own version. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Omega;876080No no. He wants gamers to accept something NOT different. Obviously TSR did it wrong by coming up with their own version. :rolleyes:
Personally, as someone who picked up a deck of Pathfinder's Harrow cards, I don't mind new versions of playing cards.
There are loads of really nice mystical card decks to be had at reasonable prices... couldn't be that hard to translate any of them into Tarokka for game purposes.
Quote from: Omega;876080No no. He wants gamers to accept something NOT different. Obviously TSR did it wrong by coming up with their own version. :rolleyes:
If they used a standard tarot deck instead of their own deck, I could go to a store or online and have my pick of hundreds of different styles for $25 or less. I could buy multiple new decks for different campaigns with different tones or different cultures in the setting for a fraction of what I would have to pay for one used tarroka deck. I could use the tarot deck I already own. It's not just their own version either. It's a different thing. It has different cards from the standard tarot deck.
I think that might have been the point? Something like. But not. You cant put a (TM) on Tarot. But you can on Tarokka.
And lessens the chance someone is going to point at the thing and scream "TSR IS TEACHING KIDS BLACK MAGIC!" because you know someone would. This was the "Appease the religious loons" and "market branding" era of TSR afterall.
Addendum: And they may have been leery of legal issues as there allready was an RPG out that came with and used a Tarot deck.
Quote from: Orphan81;876063Yeah it's just a hold over from when D&D was trying to avoid the whole satanism thing
No doubt that's why they didn't switch to using Tarot decks, but if you look back earlier, before the Tarokka, they missed a similar opportunity with the Deck of Many Things, which was perfectly set up to be usable with an actual Tarot deck, and was before "satanic panic" had really set in. I think the more likely answer at that time was concern about the potential availability of Tarot decks, which in the late 70s were still hard to come by in some parts of the U.S.
But yes, by the time Ravenloft rolled around it was practically impossible that TSR would fan the flames of the religious right by incorporating a Tarot deck into their module. More fools they, every time some preacher talked about the evils of D&D he created a dozen new D&D groups.
My biggest hope is this adventure has just enough crunch to let me run a Ravenloft adventure away from it's core material.
Quote from: RPGPundit;876331No doubt that's why they didn't switch to using Tarot decks, but if you look back earlier, before the Tarokka, they missed a similar opportunity with the Deck of Many Things, which was perfectly set up to be usable with an actual Tarot deck, and was before "satanic panic" had really set in. I think the more likely answer at that time was concern about the potential availability of Tarot decks, which in the late 70s were still hard to come by in some parts of the U.S.
The Deck of Many Things at least can be played with a standard deck of poker cards. Not sure about the Tarokka deck. Cant find mine so not sure how much maps or does not to a poker or tarot respectively?
As for availibility. Depends on where you lived. Some areas seemed more common than polyhedral dice. In others was non-existent. I do not recall ever seeing them in my hometown shops.
Quote from: Omega;876371The Deck of Many Things at least can be played with a standard deck of poker cards. Not sure about the Tarokka deck. Cant find mine so not sure how much maps or does not to a poker or tarot respectively?
As for availibility. Depends on where you lived. Some areas seemed more common than polyhedral dice. In others was non-existent. I do not recall ever seeing them in my hometown shops.
They were made to work with a standard deck of playing cards. But they steered clear of any mention of real world tarot as I recall (i would need to re-read the origin entry to be sure).
Tarot were pretty common in stores around here. I had one GM who used them instead of Tarroka.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;876373They were made to work with a standard deck of playing cards. But they steered clear of any mention of real world tarot as I recall (i would need to re-read the origin entry to be sure).
Tarot were pretty common in stores around here. I had one GM who used them instead of Tarroka.
By the mid-80s, probably. But not so much in the mid/late 70s.
Quote from: Omega;876371The Deck of Many Things at least can be played with a standard deck of poker cards. Not sure about the Tarokka deck. Cant find mine so not sure how much maps or does not to a poker or tarot respectively?
The original Ravenloft module gives equivalent using ordinary cards, if I recall correctly.
Quote from: RPGPundit;876977The original Ravenloft module gives equivalent using ordinary cards, if I recall correctly.
The original module only used a (truncated) poker deck. Every module that used the Tarokka did include equivalents with a standard 54-card deck, though.
Up for preorder now from Amazon WOTC.
Looks like and Perkins & Mohan are working on it with input from Weiss & Hickman. And its not outsourced for once.
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/curse-strahd (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/curse-strahd)
Levels 1-10?
Quote from: Omega;878690Levels 1-10?
That's what the promotional blurb said.
Just a thought. seeing how this is levels 1-10, an this little blurb.
"The only hope for the trapped adventurers is to heed the warnings of a mysterious fortune-teller named Madam Eva. Drawing random cards from her tarokka deck, she directs adventurers to search Strahd's domain for artifacts and allies to help the master of Castle Ravenloft. That is, before he orchestrates your demise for his amusement and feasts on your terror."
Am I to assume this will be more of a mini campaign than a standard module/adventure? I haven't been really been paying attention to the realms adventures they have put out for 5e. Is that what they have been doing?
Quote from: Ronin;878785Just a thought. seeing how this is levels 1-10, an this little blurb.
"The only hope for the trapped adventurers is to heed the warnings of a mysterious fortune-teller named Madam Eva. Drawing random cards from her tarokka deck, she directs adventurers to search Strahd's domain for artifacts and allies to help the master of Castle Ravenloft. That is, before he orchestrates your demise for his amusement and feasts on your terror."
Am I to assume this will be more of a mini campaign than a standard module/adventure? I haven't been really been paying attention to the realms adventures they have put out for 5e. Is that what they have been doing?
One of my players is running a 5E campaign using the published adventures and it sounds like each module is basically a hard back mini-campaign of some sort (just based on how long he's been running the thing). I haven't played them yet. I have the PHB and DMG and intend to run Ravenloft when it comes out. If it is a lot of bang for your buck, then I'm on board with that
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;878787One of my players is running a 5E campaign using the published adventures and it sounds like each module is basically a hard back mini-campaign of some sort (just based on how long he's been running the thing). I haven't played them yet. I have the PHB and DMG and intend to run Ravenloft when it comes out. If it is a lot of bang for your buck, then I'm on board with that
Tyrrany of Dragons was pretty long. Just running through Hoard took I think twelve sessions. By the end the characters were level 10. We havent finished the second half yet due to medical problems sidelining one of the players.
Havent seen Princes of the Apocalypse yet but reviews seem to indicate its a campaign setting area much like the Starters Phandelver is. Abyss seems to be as well but that one know the least about. From the sounds of it it plays "tour" style much like Hoard did.
This latest one sounds like a campaign area like Phandelver and Princes.
Quote from: Omega;878794Tyrrany of Dragons was pretty long. Just running through Hoard took I think twelve sessions. By the end the characters were level 10. We havent finished the second half yet due to medical problems sidelining one of the players.
Havent seen Princes of the Apocalypse yet but reviews seem to indicate its a campaign setting area much like the Starters Phandelver is. Abyss seems to be as well but that one know the least about. From the sounds of it it plays "tour" style much like Hoard did.
This latest one sounds like a campaign area like Phandelver and Princes.
Went ahead and pre-ordered Curse of Strahd. Will report on how it goes once I run it (won't be until April at least though).
Quote from: Omega;878794Tyrrany of Dragons was pretty long. Just running through Hoard took I think twelve sessions. By the end the characters were level 10. We havent finished the second half yet due to medical problems sidelining one of the players.
Havent seen Princes of the Apocalypse yet but reviews seem to indicate its a campaign setting area much like the Starters Phandelver is. Abyss seems to be as well but that one know the least about. From the sounds of it it plays "tour" style much like Hoard did.
This latest one sounds like a campaign area like Phandelver and Princes.
I've played in each of the three Adventurer League seasons (Tyranny of Dragons, Elemental Evil (Princes of the Apocalypse) and Rage of Demons (Out of the Abyss)) through mid second tier. Tyranny of Dragons seemed the most railroaded. Princes of the Apocalypse had the most sandbox style to it; as far as I could tell, you could in theory pursue any of the elemental cults via a number of approaches. Out of the Abyss was somewhat in between; after escaping the drow, you had a fairly free choice in where to flee to, but it seems like a lot of stuff was more inevitable than a result of the PCs' choices. But a lot of this could be the result of choices of our DMs and players.
That key aspects in Curse of Strahd are determined by Madame Eva's tarroka cards suggests a more open setting, probably framed by initial events and a final confrontation with Strahd. So I'm guessing it's more like Princes of the Apocalypse than the other campaign books.
Quote from: rawma;878915Tyranny of Dragons seemed the most railroaded. Princes of the Apocalypse had the most sandbox style to it; as far as I could tell, you could in theory pursue any of the elemental cults via a number of approaches.
Tyranny of Dragons isnt a railroad. But it is fairly linear.
Linear does not = railroad.
My main gripe with the module is that its very blank on locales in between. Three cities are passed through and I dont think they devoted more than a paragraph to each.
The second module in the set though is fairly open.
Quote from: Omega;878946Tyranny of Dragons isnt a railroad. But it is fairly linear.
Linear does not = railroad.
:idunno: In the context of Adventurers League they are the same thing.
QuoteMy main gripe with the module is that its very blank on locales in between. Three cities are passed through and I dont think they devoted more than a paragraph to each.
The second module in the set though is fairly open.
That's good to hear. We didn't get past Hoard.
Quote from: rawma;878915That key aspects in Curse of Strahd are determined by Madame Eva's tarroka cards suggests a more open setting, probably framed by initial events and a final confrontation with Strahd. So I'm guessing it's more like Princes of the Apocalypse than the other campaign books.
Yeah, I wonder how fare they'll dare to take it? Will they actually use the cards as a way to randomize the adventure? Maybe to make it radically different every time?
That's the sort of awesome shit the OSR would do. It'll probably be a step (or various steps) too far for WoTC.
QuoteDrawing random cards from her tarokka deck, she directs adventurers to search Strahd's domain for artifacts and allies to help the master of Castle Ravenloft.
I am guessing you'll have a big map of the area and the cards drawn will tell you where to go on the map and who to look for. Such that no two sessions may play exactly the same. Ideal would be that the cards determine the location, the NPC there to deal with, their disposition, and the McGuppin you need. Though its more likely it will just be the NPC and locale. Like you draw the Innocent and the Mists. Though I hope WOTC does more with it than that.
Quote from: Omega;879486I am guessing you'll have a big map of the area and the cards drawn will tell you where to go on the map and who to look for. Such that no two sessions may play exactly the same. Ideal would be that the cards determine the location, the NPC there to deal with, their disposition, and the McGuppin you need. Though its more likely it will just be the NPC and locale. Like you draw the Innocent and the Mists. Though I hope WOTC does more with it than that.
In the original ravenloft module, the cards determined only a couple of key points. Not enough to make the adventure truly variable.
It would be a great opportunity if they didn't just repeat that and instead took the concept to a much bigger level.
Quote from: RPGPundit;879866In the original ravenloft module, the cards determined only a couple of key points. Not enough to make the adventure truly variable.
It would be a great opportunity if they didn't just repeat that and instead took the concept to a much bigger level.
Nor sure about the other sets. But my Ravenloft boxed set. The one with the Fabian art Deck had several methods for using the Tarokka.
1: Predtacked deck: Used to best effect when you wanted a really targeted answer. The deck is essentially a stage prop.
2: Pre-planned answers: Note some cards relevant to the situation beforehand and then during the session lay out all the cards. But make special note of those you prepped answers for. The other cards are irrelevant.
3: Random elements: You have a general idea of whats there. But the cards drawn determine the particulars. Like you hav decided the locale will be a graveyard and theres an NPC there. The cards then help determine other factors like NPC personality, type of threat, where in the graveyard the threat is and so on.
4: Totally random on the fly generation: The cards determine everything of the adventure to come.
As you might guess my favorites are methods 3 and 4.
My hope is that Curse options all four.
We'll see. Like I said, WotC might feel like it's a step too far into OSR territory for them to risk.
They may go with the draw three method used in the original Ravenloft module. The Location, a boon for the party, and Strahd's ultimate goal. I hope they go with something more robust than that.
Quote from: Omega;880178They may go with the draw three method used in the original Ravenloft module. The Location, a boon for the party, and Strahd's ultimate goal. I hope they go with something more robust than that.
They got the original creator to work on it... Make of that what you will.
Quote from: Christopher Brady;880180They got the original creator to work on it... Make of that what you will.
Did they, or did they just pay Hickman some cash to use his name?
Quote from: RPGPundit;880864Did they, or did they just pay Hickman some cash to use his name?
There's a podcast where they got Mr. Hickman to get and explain what he wanted to do with this version of Strahd. He was, at the very least, a consultant for the adventure, and he gives the impression during the interview that they talked a LOT about how to go about it.
Again, though, make of that what you will.
Well, that's good, but at the same time its not a great hope that it will be a far more creative and freeform type of adventure structure than the original.