Quote from: The Rearranger on June 27, 2023, 05:27:32 PM
They want the outrage to result in the revival of the keyword "Banding"

You know how people will sometimes reprint the entrance exams to high schools in like the 1910s, and it's stuff that a college junior with good education struggles with today?

Banding is the MtG version of those old tests.
Why, back in my day, we had keywords where the wolf could only band with other wolves, and then we had wolves-of-the-hunt, and they could only band with other wolves-of-the-hunt!  Those were different, and we liked it!

Quote from: Opaopajr on June 27, 2023, 06:30:44 AM
So wait, why not just use the word 'Type'?

Because then they couldnt virtue signal more.

Quote from: rytrasmi on June 27, 2023, 10:29:41 AM
This is a good start, but let's face it: The entire English language is chock full of colonial baggage.

My Colonial luggage is elephant hide, has my initials in silver, and contains my Holland & Holland 4 bore stopping rifles. I refuse to demonize my ancestors just because some other Johnny's ancestors didn't have a bristling moustache and a can-do attitude.

Quote from: Opaopajr on June 27, 2023, 06:30:44 AM
So wait, why not just use the word 'Type'?

Yep. Type would be fine, but I think Tribal is embedded in the gamer lexicon.
Typal sounds like someone reads a thesaurus when taking a shit.

Quote from: Ruprecht on June 27, 2023, 03:28:20 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 27, 2023, 01:23:33 AM
And some resent the term "native american" because they're tired of the white man giving them something and then taking it away again. IE they got used to the term Indian, and then some whitey got offended for them.

If I remember correctly it was Jessie Jackson, trying to push his rainbow coalition, who coined the term African-American and Native American was invented at the same time. Then he added gays to the rainbow coalition and the other groups fled leaving the gay with the rainbow flag all to themselves. What I'm saying the shift pre-dated woke and whitey being offended on behalf of others.

If so, I stand corrected. Still, I don't think Jessie Jackson speaks for all Natives on this topic, and the fact that not all Indians like the term remains.

Quote from: Venka on June 27, 2023, 05:55:43 PM

Quote from: The Rearranger on June 27, 2023, 05:27:32 PM
They want the outrage to result in the revival of the keyword "Banding"

You know how people will sometimes reprint the entrance exams to high schools in like the 1910s, and it's stuff that a college junior with good education struggles with today?

Banding is the MtG version of those old tests.
Why, back in my day, we had keywords where the wolf could only band with other wolves, and then we had wolves-of-the-hunt, and they could only band with other wolves-of-the-hunt!  Those were different, and we liked it!

I once picked up a high school textbook from the 50's at a used book store. It would challenge a college graduate at a top school today.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on June 26, 2023, 07:43:14 PM
WOTC is officially recognizing the word "typal."

Mark Rosewater:
"Multiple consultants recommended we stop using the language, so we decided to change it. We picked a word that was similar (same number of syllables), so we can swap it in the same places we were using "tribal" Typal, while an uncommon word, is an actual word meaning "relating to a type". We originally used as a placeholder, but grew to like it."

What fresh new hell is this? What's next?

WoTC:

It could be worse. At least they're not taking cues from White Wolf and using random words from the dictionary and non-English languages that don't share any meaning in common with what it's used to refer to, such as renaming vampirizing/turning someone to hugging them (but pretentiously), calling intra-vampire cannibalism by a French word for devil worship, or calling punk vampires by the Spanish word for a Halloween witch. Or taking cues from MultiSim and using bizarre idiosyncratic pseudo-technical jargon like "Jesus Effect", "Basaltic Cycle", or "Dragon Effect", or using butchered bits of Ancient Egyptian to represent Enochian.

I never understood the drama around Banding. It was as easy as can be: Banding allows you to distribute damage among your banded creatures, period. Blocking creatures grouped together need at least one creature with Banding to gain benefit. Attacking creatures grouped together need all BUT one creature without Banding to a) attack together at all, & b) gain benefit of damage distribution. Attacking groups are blocked as a group.

Now let me diagram you a sentence and identify each grammatical function... 

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 28, 2023, 10:32:38 AM
It could be worse. At least they're not taking cues from White Wolf and using random words from the dictionary and non-English languages that don't share any meaning in common with what it's used to refer to, such as renaming vampirizing/turning someone to hugging them (but pretentiously), calling intra-vampire cannibalism by a French word for devil worship, or calling punk vampires by the Spanish word for a Halloween witch. Or taking cues from MultiSim and using bizarre idiosyncratic pseudo-technical jargon like "Jesus Effect", "Basaltic Cycle", or "Dragon Effect", or using butchered bits of Ancient Egyptian to represent Enochian.

The White Wolf stuff wouldn't have been so bad if they'd explicitly said some of these terms were slang or accepted terminology for certain concepts. 'An 11th century vampire borrowed the French term for devil worship to name the act, to denote its loathesome nature among vampire society.'

But yeah. 90's WW was a mess.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 28, 2023, 01:16:31 AM
Yep. Type would be fine

Not that I really want to come in here and defend WotC, but "type" wouldn't work.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Type_line

The type line contains all the card's types.  For instance, Llanowar Elf's Type is Creature.  It then has two subtypes- "Elf" and "Druid".

Type has always meant this or something similar in magic.  When something is flagged "tribal", it means it has certain very specific rules.  "typal" isn't a good name for this, but neither is "tribal".  They just want a one word non-hyphenated word that means "type-related", and there isn't one.

But type is a major descriptor that's been there forever and makes sense and is good.  Tribal cards are a gimmick mechanic, present here and there, and not very important.

Quote from: Opaopajr on June 28, 2023, 10:37:37 AM
I never understood the drama around Banding. It was as easy as can be: Banding allows you to distribute damage among your banded creatures, period.

Oh, is that it?  So if I were to lighting bolt your llanowar elf, you could distribute all three of those damage to your serra angel?  Ok, so you meant combat damage, right?

Ok, what if you band two 1/1s together and attack along with a 2/2 who is not in a band, and I block the two 1/1 band and the 2/2  with my two headed dragon (4/4, can block an additional creature), can I assign 2 to the band and 2 to the 2/2 and then you survive with the 1/1, or can you assign the damage away from the 2/2?  Because there is a difference between "banding allows you to distribute (ed: combat) damage among your banded creatures, period", and what actually happens, which is "If any creatures with banding you control are blocking or being blocked by a creature, you divide that creature's combat damage, not its controller, among any of the creatures it's being blocked by or is blocking."  You could, in the example, put all of two-headed dragon's damage on the 2/2, even though it doesn't have banding, which your statement precludes.

So you had the opportunity to come up with any banding example to show how simple banding is- a challenge you set out to do, on your own- and you got it completely wrong (technically twice because you didn't specify what types of damage are effected by banding).

Banding is confusing as heck.  The fact that you don't understand it is no shock- it has changed several times over the years, and has never been easy.  Your incorrect understanding was probably true at some point.

https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Banding

"What type of creature is that?"

"Typal."

"What does that mean?"

"It's a type of creature."

"Yes, but what type?"

"Typal."

"I know, but what does 'typal' mean?"

"A type."

"What type is it then?"

"Typal."

Quote from: Horace on June 28, 2023, 12:09:11 PM
"What type of creature is that?"

"Typal."

It's not as bad as that.  Tribal on WotC's Gatherer.
(Tinyurl link because the gatherer link has square brackets, which I can't seem to fit into this forum)


These things have type lines like:
"Tribal Instant - Wizard"

So it would be "Typal Instant - Wizard".  This is stupid because it is not how you would use typal.
If you dare (and it's real bad), here is how "typal" is used correctly:
https://researchonline.rca.ac.uk/2014/1/Jacoby_Type%20vs%20Typology.pdf

However, it was not particularly clever before, as "wizard" is a class, not a race or fundamental descriptor (many creatures are human wizard, or elf wizard), nor are creature subtypes often tribes in any concept.  The most correct descriptor would be something like "Subtype-specific Instant - Wizard", which doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

Honestly this is a case where they should probably have established a class of sympathetic magic that was drawn to certain magical or real features, and had effects based on that.  This would have allowed them to make up a word entirely, and then use that.  Generally magic doesn't like made up words in their rules text, using real words and then providing definitions for them- but this should have been an exception to that I feel.

All that being said, they are only changing off "tribal" because they are doing a wokeness.  "Tribal" was not a good fit for this in 2007 when they printed it, but it wasn't until they realized that they had gone a whole fortnight without some kind of ritual to their extremely dumb god that they decided to write themselves up for problematicallness (and by implication, all MtG players for not being mad about it first).

This almost sounds like where they should have taken a page from Paizo and used 'keyword' instead.

is typal even a word?  Or is it a made-up nonsense word like cis?