Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 07, 2024, 04:23:39 AM
A shift to a digital subscription model has been expected for some time because it is the only way that WotC can achieve the kind of recurrent spending that they're aiming for. I just hope that most of the weirdos will then disappear inside WotC's "walled garden."

I suspect that a lot of the weirdos will not like the change in format, and that adventures are likely to back to being about dungeon crawls (for the VTT), and not about working in a coffee shop or going to a whimsical carnival, or having a food eating contest in a multicultural night market. So the weirdos will probably turn viciously against WotC, and go elsewhere (many might just quit, but many will also go into "indie games" to create horrible content, and probably some will go into the 3rd party 5e publishing world and some might end up coming into the OSR to tell us how horrible we all are and demand we change for them).

Quote from: Omega on February 06, 2024, 10:05:44 PM
Eventually they will probably try to go to some subscription only format so you no longer even own the PDFs and they can yank everything you bought.

It's been like that for years already. No downloadable PDFs, only access on D&D Beyond.

It always bemuses me how many people have forgotten the Xbox One launch.

I haven't cared about WotC for many years. The only thing I'm really upset about is that many of the old TSR publications and games like Dungeon magazines, Alternity campaign settings, etc aren't on drivethrurpg.

Copyright is so stupid. I do think authors deserve an exclusive monopoly for a limited time to profit from their work, but under corporations copyright results in corpos destroying IPs and preventing them from being preserved and remixed by fans.

My digital copy of Volo's Guide to Monsters is missing whole paragraphs of text that were removed for woke reasons, such as references to slavery (Neogi) and savagery (Orcs). I will not buy any more "digital products."

Quote from: Horace on February 07, 2024, 12:43:02 PM
My digital copy of Volo's Guide to Monsters is missing whole paragraphs of text that were removed for woke reasons, such as references to slavery (Neogi) and savagery (Orcs). I will not buy any more "digital products."

Yeah. I only really care about the stat blocks. If I used the fluff I'd be furious.

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 07, 2024, 06:14:01 AM

Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 07, 2024, 04:23:39 AM
A shift to a digital subscription model has been expected for some time because it is the only way that WotC can achieve the kind of recurrent spending that they're aiming for. I just hope that most of the weirdos will then disappear inside WotC's "walled garden."

I suspect that a lot of the weirdos will not like the change in format, and that adventures are likely to back to being about dungeon crawls (for the VTT), and not about working in a coffee shop or going to a whimsical carnival, or having a food eating contest in a multicultural night market. So the weirdos will probably turn viciously against WotC, and go elsewhere (many might just quit, but many will also go into "indie games" to create horrible content, and probably some will go into the 3rd party 5e publishing world and some might end up coming into the OSR to tell us how horrible we all are and demand we change for them).

The weirdoes don't spend money, and WotC is expecting them to spend monthly and to keep spending to mantain access to their shit.

IME it will depend on the early adoption, because most people are susceptible to the sunken cost fallacy. So if the early adoption is huge then they'll keep bleeding them for years or decades.

The problem I see is that you'll need to bring your laptop to be able to play, so there go those who like to play in person, not only for the cost of the laptop but what internet speed will you need to have 4+ people playing at your home?

Now, for those who play online: Currently you can play on Roll20 and at most the GM has to pay, in WotC's walled garden EVERYBODY has to pay... There goes another chunk, either to keep playin the same game or switching to Paizo's new shiny.

My bet is that whoever is already paying for D&D Beyond will keep paying for the new VTT, sunken cost. But how many of their player base is really there? 10 Million if reports are true.

https://dungeonvault.com/how-many-dnd-players-are-there-worldwide/

While I never went on record saying it, I never really believed Pundit's claim that they would walk away in a serious and significant way from printed products.  But at this point, it's clear that even if they actually make the books like they used to, it won't be anything close to the way 5e did it- which in turn was nothing like the way 4e or 3e did.  I bet that they'll fill the bookstores with their 2024 Player's Handbook though.

Frankly it's just totally enraging what they did to 5e post-launch.  From their need to remove sections on slavery, savagery, and culture (the latest DMG errata was explicitly to remove discussions on creating a new race and their culture), I could never bring myself to buy a product from them again. Perhaps a used copy once it was out of print, or something, but even then, I would still be subsidizing people who hate me.

As I commented on the vid #Hasbro is transitioning into an IP licensing company, and #Renegade will likely publish the physical books like they do for all of #Hasbro's other properties. They're not going to leave money on the table, and they're not going to sell off their IP short of bankruptcy.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on February 08, 2024, 11:08:30 AM
As I commented on the vid #Hasbro is transitioning into an IP licensing company, and #Renegade will likely publish the physical books like they do for all of #Hasbro's other properties. They're not going to leave money on the table, and they're not going to sell off their IP short of bankruptcy.

I hate Renegade...

🤷‍♂️

many non-rpg book publishers are doing the same with many older novel series years ago.

Try getting David Drake Isles series in print good luck. Either buy used at high prices or go E-book.

I don't like it except beyond a few 5E books I want to round out my collection have no interest in the new edition. Same with Tales of the Valiant. Too much recycled rehash with a few rooms given a new cost of paint in an old house.

Like it or not we are not we older Grognards are simply not the market any longer .
MS for them going bankrupt I won't talk out of my ass as zi don't have access to their finances and will only believe it once they actually announce it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 06, 2024, 05:20:37 PM
Well, I wasn't into the current edition anyway. But anything going forward, I like having dead tree books to read at my lesiure that don't need a device to read. So I guess I'll keep on not buying WOTC D&D.

  I am of the same mind...I do find the books that come with a PDF download code I have enjoyed.  Some books like DCC are a bit tricky to read on my back lying in bed and having it on Ipad as well is nice.  I always prefer dead tree though. 

I always prefer printed books.

This is good news.

I was hoping for a hail Mary pass to save D&D with the rumors of the tencent buying, but after that fell through the best thing for the industry as a whole is for D&D to fail harder, faster.

The Comic Industry is now beginning to fight it's woke Infestation, and that happened when they hit the absolute rock bottom of sales. It took the near bankrupty of Marvel and DC for them to finally change course and the industry as a whole to start turning against the infiltrators (many of whom are now trying to rebrand themselves as having 'always been against cancel culture').

The woke will scatter and be driven out when D&D finally hits rock bottom. Without a big name game to draw them in either, many of the tourists will probably leave the hobby completely. The ones who don't will spiral into irrelevancy and more games no one plays. Now is the time to be brand ambassadors for other games. Or of course, for those that like 5th edition, to refuse to move to the new stuff the company puts out.

The sooner Hasbro/Wizard's see's D&D as an anchor around it's neck, and either stops actively creating for it and just holds the copyright, or even sells it off to someone else, the better.

The best thing to hope for is even more dumb descisions like this. They need to keep losing money.

Quote from: Horace on February 07, 2024, 12:43:02 PM
My digital copy of Volo's Guide to Monsters is missing whole paragraphs of text that were removed for woke reasons, such as references to slavery (Neogi) and savagery (Orcs). I will not buy any more "digital products."

Wow. That's bullshit. I'd be demanding my money back.