Just when I thought WotC couldn't screw up worse, they sent hired goons to a fan's house.
#dnd #wotc #mtg
Is WotC run by actual Bolsheviks at this point?
They sent goons to someone's house to do exactly what?
Allegedly to take back some cards from an unreleased set
Quote from: Slambo on April 26, 2023, 11:10:51 AM
Allegedly to take back some cards from an unreleased set
Hmm. Asking for it back would be the right way to go. Sending goons, not a great look.
The guy claims he was given the set by accident, and even if he wasn't. don't send actual bonifide hired goons to retrieve your goddam cardboard.
Whatever the deal with the books of creative decisions, Id say this dwards that manyfold. Id say this is worse then even the OGL thing.
The literally hired the goddamn PINKERTONS to get the stuff back. Sweet god I didn't know we would be reliving the 1800s again and Read Dead Online would be a model for LARP'n.
At this point the only logical conclusion I can reach is that someone inside Hasbro/WotC is deliberately trying to tank their stock prices for either insider trading* or revenge.**
Anything else requires a level of incompetence that beggars belief.
* intending to buy up shares cheap for a hostile takeover or has shorted the company so profits from their loss.
** ex. that guy who wanted WotC spun off into an independent company because that division was soaking losses for Hasbro as a whole and would be more valuable if it was independent... he was denied so, revenge?
Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 01:39:47 PM
At this point the only logical conclusion I can reach is that someone inside Hasbro/WotC is deliberately trying to tank their stock prices for either insider trading* or revenge.**
Anything else requires a level of incompetence that beggars belief.
* intending to buy up shares cheap for a hostile takeover or has shorted the company so profits from their loss.
** ex. that guy who wanted WotC spun off into an independent company because that division was soaking losses for Hasbro as a whole and would be more valuable if it was independent... he was denied so, revenge?
not even WallStreetBets is hedging anything on Hasbro. If there was a short to be had those guys would be going hard due to the LULZ.
It is sheer incompetence at the highest level.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 26, 2023, 11:38:40 AM
The guy claims he was given the set by accident, and even if he wasn't. don't send actual bonifide hired goons to retrieve your goddam cardboard.
Whatever the deal with the books of creative decisions, Id say this dwards that manyfold. Id say this is worse then even the OGL thing.
The Pinkertons are lucky they didn't go on the property of someone with a gun. Might have ended badly for them.
Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 01:39:47 PM
At this point the only logical conclusion I can reach is that someone inside Hasbro/WotC is deliberately trying to tank their stock prices for either insider trading* or revenge.**
Anything else requires a level of incompetence that beggars belief.
* intending to buy up shares cheap for a hostile takeover or has shorted the company so profits from their loss.
** ex. that guy who wanted WotC spun off into an independent company because that division was soaking losses for Hasbro as a whole and would be more valuable if it was independent... he was denied so, revenge?
I agree. They couldn't have hired people this incompetent to run their business. Someone had to interview them. Someone had to check their references.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2023, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 01:39:47 PM
At this point the only logical conclusion I can reach is that someone inside Hasbro/WotC is deliberately trying to tank their stock prices for either insider trading* or revenge.**
Anything else requires a level of incompetence that beggars belief.
* intending to buy up shares cheap for a hostile takeover or has shorted the company so profits from their loss.
** ex. that guy who wanted WotC spun off into an independent company because that division was soaking losses for Hasbro as a whole and would be more valuable if it was independent... he was denied so, revenge?
I agree. They couldn't have hired people this incompetent to run their business. Someone had to interview them. Someone had to check their references.
The people in charge all passed through the ESG/DEI process, therefore they are vetted.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2023, 11:22:40 AM
Quote from: Slambo on April 26, 2023, 11:10:51 AM
Allegedly to take back some cards from an unreleased set
Hmm. Asking for it back would be the right way to go. Sending goons, not a great look.
They could well be lying, but according to WotC, they did ask for it back prior to sending them. Their statement to io9 was:
Quote from: Wizards of the CoastAs part of an investigation into the unauthorized distribution and disclosure of embargoed product, we repeatedly attempted to contact an individual who had received unreleased cards. After that outreach was unsuccessful, an investigator visited him and asked that he reach out to us as part of our investigation and return the embargoed product and packaging. He agreed to do both. The unreleased product will be replaced by us with the product he intended to purchase. We appreciate the individual's cooperation and the investigation is ongoing.
I don't know the individual or the situation, so I have no opinion on who is telling the truth here. I don't like WotC, but I still want to assess each claim.
He should have opened it up, taken pictures, and posted it online in many different formats. At that point, what is WOTC really retrieving?
Quote from: jhkim on April 26, 2023, 02:16:15 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2023, 11:22:40 AM
Quote from: Slambo on April 26, 2023, 11:10:51 AM
Allegedly to take back some cards from an unreleased set
Hmm. Asking for it back would be the right way to go. Sending goons, not a great look.
They could well be lying, but according to WotC, they did ask for it back prior to sending them. Their statement to io9 was:
Quote from: Wizards of the CoastAs part of an investigation into the unauthorized distribution and disclosure of embargoed product, we repeatedly attempted to contact an individual who had received unreleased cards. After that outreach was unsuccessful, an investigator visited him and asked that he reach out to us as part of our investigation and return the embargoed product and packaging. He agreed to do both. The unreleased product will be replaced by us with the product he intended to purchase. We appreciate the individual's cooperation and the investigation is ongoing.
I don't know the individual or the situation, so I have no opinion on who is telling the truth here. I don't like WotC, but I still want to assess each claim.
I buy product X
Seller sends me instead product Y
How is that MY fault?
I paid for the product, if the seller sent me something they weren't supposed to release yet it's THEIR problem, if they want it back they need to contact me and very politely ask for it and make it worth to ME. So, exchange it for the product I ordered and throw some free extras on top.
I don't have to contact them, they have to contact me.
Under no circumstance it's justified they sending goons to MY house. IF it was me I would sue the Pinkertons, WotC AND Hasbro, milk them for a few million for MY troubles.
I'm sick and tired of people playing defense for the fucking corporations, especially "left leaning" people.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on April 26, 2023, 01:56:01 PM
The people in charge all passed through the ESG/DEI process, therefore they are vetted.
Very true. That is WOTC's version of vetting. We see the result of that.
Quote from: jhkim on April 26, 2023, 02:16:15 PM
They could well be lying, but according to WotC, they did ask for it back prior to sending them. Their statement to io9 was:
Quote from: Wizards of the CoastAs part of an investigation into the unauthorized distribution and disclosure of embargoed product, we repeatedly attempted to contact an individual who had received unreleased cards. After that outreach was unsuccessful, an investigator visited him and asked that he reach out to us as part of our investigation and return the embargoed product and packaging. He agreed to do both. The unreleased product will be replaced by us with the product he intended to purchase. We appreciate the individual's cooperation and the investigation is ongoing.
I don't know the individual or the situation, so I have no opinion on who is telling the truth here. I don't like WotC, but I still want to assess each claim.
I really tend to side with the person since I hate WOTC and their tactics and I really don't see a reason for the people to lie.
Quote from: THE_Leopold on April 26, 2023, 01:44:57 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on April 26, 2023, 01:39:47 PM
At this point the only logical conclusion I can reach is that someone inside Hasbro/WotC is deliberately trying to tank their stock prices for either insider trading* or revenge.**
Anything else requires a level of incompetence that beggars belief.
* intending to buy up shares cheap for a hostile takeover or has shorted the company so profits from their loss.
** ex. that guy who wanted WotC spun off into an independent company because that division was soaking losses for Hasbro as a whole and would be more valuable if it was independent... he was denied so, revenge?
not even WallStreetBets is hedging anything on Hasbro. If there was a short to be had those guys would be going hard due to the LULZ.
It is sheer incompetence at the highest level.
Robert Conquest had the answer a long time ago: "The behavior of any bureaucratic organization can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies."
Quote from: jhkim on April 26, 2023, 02:16:15 PMThey could well be lying, but according to WotC, they did ask for it back prior to sending them. Their statement to io9 was
Then why not call the police? I'm not 100% certain about how the law works, but if somebody steals something from you, you can just ask the police to get it back.
Why the goon squad?
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 26, 2023, 04:56:50 PM
Quote from: jhkim on April 26, 2023, 02:16:15 PMThey could well be lying, but according to WotC, they did ask for it back prior to sending them. Their statement to io9 was
Then why not call the police? I'm not 100% certain about how the law works, but if somebody steals something from you, you can just ask the police to get it back.
Why the goon squad?
Because it's not stolen property, the youtuber got it sent instead of what he bought by error.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2023, 05:01:35 PMBecause it's not stolen property, the youtuber got it sent instead of what he bought by error.
Hmm, Im pretty sure there would still be legal precedent for retrieval. If an airport sent my buisness suitcase to the wrong guy, I think you can demand it back from them even if it was sent by accident.
Like I again disbelieve that WOTC "asked" and then needed to send "Private detectives". Because they could just demonetize his channel and keep doing it until he gave them back the goods.
I agree this sounds more like some internal politiking to intentionally do something stupid, as WOTC could easily get this guy deplatformed if they wanted.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 26, 2023, 05:18:08 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2023, 05:01:35 PMBecause it's not stolen property, the youtuber got it sent instead of what he bought by error.
Hmm, Im pretty sure there would still be legal precedent for retrieval. If an airport sent my buisness suitcase to the wrong guy, I think you can demand it back from them even if it was sent by accident.
Like I again disbelieve that WOTC "asked" and then needed to send "Private detectives". Because they could just demonetize his channel and keep doing it until he gave them back the goods.
I agree this sounds more like some internal politiking to intentionally do something stupid, as WOTC could easily get this guy deplatformed if they wanted.
Do you REALLY think this and the airport/airline sending YOUR suitcase to the wrong person are the same?
Try a better analogy because that's a false equivalence.
Try you bought a suitcase called X
Got sent the next season model called X-Aftermath
That's what happened, it's WotC's fault for sending it to the retailers. Or somewhere else along the supply chain, but there's NO sending to someone the property of other.
WotC needed to make the guy a sweet deal, cheaper and much better for PR.
It's going to depend on where the youtuber lives, which I couldn't determine with the few minutes I was willing to allocate searching, but under most laws in the US, if someone is sent merchandise they did not order, they are allowed to keep it.
Here's an example of relevant code
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/3009
39 U.S. Code § 3009 - Mailing of unordered merchandise
U.S. Code
Notes
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(a) Except for (1) free samples clearly and conspicuously marked as such, and (2) merchandise mailed by a charitable organization soliciting contributions, the mailing of unordered merchandise or of communications prohibited by subsection (c) of this section constitutes an unfair method of competition and an unfair trade practice in violation of section 45(a)(1) of title 15.
(b) Any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, may be treated as a gift by the recipient, who shall have the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender. All such merchandise shall have attached to it a clear and conspicuous statement informing the recipient that he may treat the merchandise as a gift to him and has the right to retain, use, discard, or dispose of it in any manner he sees fit without any obligation whatsoever to the sender.
(c) No mailer of any merchandise mailed in violation of subsection (a) of this section, or within the exceptions contained therein, shall mail to any recipient of such merchandise a bill for such merchandise or any dunning communications.
(d) For the purposes of this section, "unordered merchandise" means merchandise mailed without the prior expressed request or consent of the recipient.
(Pub. L. 91–375, Aug. 12, 1970, 84 Stat. 749.)
From my recollection of my one business law class, I recall that the UCC says the same.
It seems to me that this would apply because he didn't ask for the cards he was sent, but I'd have to consult the case law to make sure that the law has been interpreted this way in the past.
I'm pretty certain that mistakenly sending the wrong material in response to an order would NOT fall under this section, which is designed to deal with 'inertia selling'. The intent of the sender is quite different. The buyer did solicit goods, they just got the wrong goods. On standard Contract Law principles, there was no contract to transfer ownership of the goods that were actually sent. This typically means that ownership is not transferred even though possession is transferred, at least not immediately. WoTC's agents' threatening behaviour to an innocent recipient is still tortious and possibly criminal, though.
Quote from: S'mon on April 27, 2023, 03:29:05 AM
I'm pretty certain that mistakenly sending the wrong material in response to an order would NOT fall under this section, which is designed to deal with 'inertia selling'. The intent of the sender is quite different. The buyer did solicit goods, they just got the wrong goods. On standard Contract Law principles, there was no contract to transfer ownership of the goods that were actually sent. This typically means that ownership is not transferred even though possession is transferred, at least not immediately. WoTC's agents' threatening behaviour to an innocent recipient is still tortious and possibly criminal, though.
Thanks for the clarification. That's why I consult with a real lawyer when it matters.
I read a bit about this on another gaming news spot. I'd guess he could at least get Pinkerton on criminal trespass and WotC on conspiracy because they hired the Pinkertons. If it were me I know I'd be pissed enough to pursue it to the full extent of the law.
Quote from: Mishihari on April 27, 2023, 03:57:50 AM
Quote from: S'mon on April 27, 2023, 03:29:05 AM
I'm pretty certain that mistakenly sending the wrong material in response to an order would NOT fall under this section, which is designed to deal with 'inertia selling'. The intent of the sender is quite different. The buyer did solicit goods, they just got the wrong goods. On standard Contract Law principles, there was no contract to transfer ownership of the goods that were actually sent. This typically means that ownership is not transferred even though possession is transferred, at least not immediately. WoTC's agents' threatening behaviour to an innocent recipient is still tortious and possibly criminal, though.
Thanks for the clarification. That's why I consult with a real lawyer when it matters.
I read a bit about this on another gaming news spot. I'd guess he could at least get Pinkerton on criminal trespass and WotC on conspiracy because they hired the Pinkertons. If it were me I know I'd be pissed enough to pursue it to the full extent of the law.
Greetings!
Yeah! S'mon is great! He knows his stuff! He knows all the Lawyer things. It is refreshing, and gratifying, to know a real lawyer. Far too many yahoos online like to run their mouth about the law, when in reality they don't know a damned thing.
S'mon is always sober, knowledgeable, and laser-sharp.
I'm definitely with you, my friend. I'd have WOTC, HASBRO, and Pinkerton on the hook BIG. Yeah, I'd think with a case like this, a good truckload of lawyers would be lined up, eager to get to work!
Of course, knowing me--if these Pinkerton clowns showed up at *my* door, well, I would have much more to offer them besides coffee. It is just boggling to me. Making my wife cry? Puffing their chests out, and being tough guys? On my property? Oh yeah, man. I would definitely have something else for them, for damned sure.
These Pinkerton clowns really need to think, and remember something--people in America get shot and killed at MacDonalds for serving cold French Fries at the drive thru window. How do they think a man might respond to these goons showing up at your door, seeking to intimidate and threaten you, making your wife cry, while acting like thugs?
That could very easily end up being a fatal mistake of assumptions on their part. A very bad morning for them, for certain.
Nonetheless, WOTC needs to be grilled hard for this,as well as Pinkerton and Hasbro. Sending Pinkerton thugs to people's doors? Just mind-boggling. All for their stupid MTG card game. Yeah, I hope the customer and victim in all this GETS PAID, and HUGE.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I wonder, do Pinkerton goons behave differently in the gun-toting South & Red States, than in more pacified parts of the country? Or do they go in expecting violence? I'm sure they're armed wherever concealed carry is legal. WoTC may have bad publicity now, but imagine if their thugs had killed a man on his own doorstep for receiving the wrong M:TG cards! :o
Quote from: SHARK on April 27, 2023, 04:53:15 AM
Greetings!
Yeah! S'mon is great! He knows his stuff! He knows all the Lawyer things. It is refreshing, and gratifying, to know a real lawyer. Far too many yahoos online like to run their mouth about the law, when in reality they don't know a damned thing.
S'mon is always sober, knowledgeable, and laser-sharp.
Aw, thanks SHARK. ;D I teach Contract Law as well as Intellectual Property, including a lot of Business to Consumer (B2C), so restrictions on 'inertia selling' are familiar to me. Recently started teaching some basic Company/Corporate Law also.
Quote from: S'mon on April 27, 2023, 05:13:23 AM
I wonder, do Pinkerton goons behave differently in the gun-toting South & Red States, than in more pacified parts of the country? Or do they go in expecting violence? I'm sure they're armed wherever concealed carry is legal. WoTC may have bad publicity now, but imagine if their thugs had killed a man on his own doorstep for receiving the wrong M:TG cards! :o
So from what I understand now, WotC sent the wrong package, dude opens it and whatever and has no idea these are cards that aren't supposed to actually be released. Instead of contacting him directly they send the Pinkertons to go get the cards. There is no search warrant or anything of the sort, they are a private security group and have no legal basis for search and seizure, correct? Since I live in a "red state" (Texas), I can tell you they'd be really polite knocking on any doors and ask nicely for return of the merchandise. If they were reasonable I don't think anything would happen other than them getting the cards back. If they got pushy or had an attitude, there'd probably be some door slamming, with an inevitable escalation to buckshot, depending on just how pushy they did get. In my neighborhood most people are pretty nice, but even people I know pretty well would be more than willing to use lethal force on their property if they felt threatened, even by me. I am sure the goons would understand this and act accordingly.
Fantasies aside, why didn't WotC just fucking ASK for the stuff back? Why send the gestapo? I don't get it.
Quote from: Brad on April 27, 2023, 05:55:15 AM
Fantasies aside, why didn't WotC just fucking ASK for the stuff back? Why send the gestapo? I don't get it.
Did they not do just that? It says that they tried to contact him (I assume by the e-mail or phone number he provided when buying the cards) and that they weren't able to reach him. Seems within reason that they would then send somebody to the address that he provided to ask him about it.
Shouldn't he also want the original product that he bought? I'm sure they're well within their rights to go to his address and ask if he'll give the cards back, and to also drop off the actual product. Whether they did it via intimidation or not is a whole other thing. If I was selling something to somebody and I sent the wrong item and he couldn't or wouldn't get back to me, I would certainly retrieve it were it within my means to do so.
Americans are a strange bunch in any case. Very strange civilisation!
Quote from: Brad on April 27, 2023, 05:55:15 AM
Quote from: S'mon on April 27, 2023, 05:13:23 AM
I wonder, do Pinkerton goons behave differently in the gun-toting South & Red States, than in more pacified parts of the country? Or do they go in expecting violence? I'm sure they're armed wherever concealed carry is legal. WoTC may have bad publicity now, but imagine if their thugs had killed a man on his own doorstep for receiving the wrong M:TG cards! :o
So from what I understand now, WotC sent the wrong package, dude opens it and whatever and has no idea these are cards that aren't supposed to actually be released. Instead of contacting him directly they send the Pinkertons to go get the cards. There is no search warrant or anything of the sort, they are a private security group and have no legal basis for search and seizure, correct? Since I live in a "red state" (Texas), I can tell you they'd be really polite knocking on any doors and ask nicely for return of the merchandise. If they were reasonable I don't think anything would happen other than them getting the cards back. If they got pushy or had an attitude, there'd probably be some door slamming, with an inevitable escalation to buckshot, depending on just how pushy they did get. In my neighborhood most people are pretty nice, but even people I know pretty well would be more than willing to use lethal force on their property if they felt threatened, even by me. I am sure the goons would understand this and act accordingly.
Fantasies aside, why didn't WotC just fucking ASK for the stuff back? Why send the gestapo? I don't get it.
Greetings!
Yep, Brad! Same thing here in Idaho, where I am. Up here, people are very friendly and polite. However, also being a *Red State*--most people here are armed, and many are *highly armed*. Idaho has Constitutional Carry, which means that people can also conceal their firearms nearly anywhere they go. And yeah, people here would not respond well to Pinkerton tough guys acting like thugs in any way.
I wouldn't respond to such thugs well, either.
It is kind of weird even thinking about such an encounter--here, the Police are always super polite, to everyone. Well, Police here have no qualms about blazing on criminals at all. But normal folks? Yep. Police are courteous, polite, and professional. The police KNOW that everyone here is armed, too!
I have, I think, four law enforcement officers as neighbors. Two of them are police for my town, while the other two police officers live here, obviously, though they work in nearby towns just down the road. *Laughing*
I'd imagine Pinkerton Detectives would always be very polite here, in this state.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Lidless_Eye on April 27, 2023, 06:14:20 AM
Americans are a strange bunch in any case. Very strange civilisation!
Yeah, we're strange in that we don't like being pushed around or told what to do by people with no authority to do so.
Quote from: Lidless_Eye on April 27, 2023, 06:14:20 AM
Quote from: Brad on April 27, 2023, 05:55:15 AM
Fantasies aside, why didn't WotC just fucking ASK for the stuff back? Why send the gestapo? I don't get it.
Did they not do just that? It says that they tried to contact him (I assume by the e-mail or phone number he provided when buying the cards) and that they weren't able to reach him. Seems within reason that they would then send somebody to the address that he provided to ask him about it.
Shouldn't he also want the original product that he bought? I'm sure they're well within their rights to go to his address and ask if he'll give the cards back, and to also drop off the actual product. Whether they did it via intimidation or not is a whole other thing. If I was selling something to somebody and I sent the wrong item and he couldn't or wouldn't get back to me, I would certainly retrieve it were it within my means to do so.
Americans are a strange bunch in any case. Very strange civilisation!
Greetings!
Well, if an Insurance Agent comes over to my house, and returns later because he forgot his paperwork, or his phone, or something else that belongs to him, I'm not worried. I don't think anyone else would be anything but polite, courteous, and cooperative.
Just like no one gets aggressive if the Plumber comes over, or the Cable Guy, or a salesman for Solar Heaters.
Pinkerton Agents though? That implies *violence* and *force*. Americans don't like being intimidated, or threatened with violence, by anyone, at any time. We also do not appreciate strangers acting like tough guys, or thugs, on our own property, and making women cry.
That kind of behavior is a quick way to fuck around and find out.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on April 27, 2023, 07:13:05 AM
Pinkerton Agents though? That implies *violence* and *force*. Americans don't like being intimidated, or threatened with violence, by anyone, at any time. We also do not appreciate strangers acting like tough guys, or thugs, on our own property, and making women cry.
That kind of behavior is a quick way to fuck around and find out.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Oh, Pinkerton Agents are part of an actual organisation? I figured it was just what people in games like LA Noir called people who represented private interests. Like a catch-all, generalised term. The more you know.
Nevertheless, is it well established that this person was put under any legitimate duress? I would not consider, "please return our e-mail and calls, and please give us back our goods" (either in person or not) duress, by the way.
And I do not like Wizards of the Coast (for all of the obvious reasons...) for the record.
Was the fellow even legally required to return the product? I understand that WotC has a legal contract with the store, but the customer bought product in good faith, and is under no such contract.
Could he not just tell them to go piss up a rope?
Quote from: SHARK on April 27, 2023, 04:53:15 AM
Quote from: Mishihari on April 27, 2023, 03:57:50 AM
Quote from: S'mon on April 27, 2023, 03:29:05 AM
I'm pretty certain that mistakenly sending the wrong material in response to an order would NOT fall under this section, which is designed to deal with 'inertia selling'. The intent of the sender is quite different. The buyer did solicit goods, they just got the wrong goods. On standard Contract Law principles, there was no contract to transfer ownership of the goods that were actually sent. This typically means that ownership is not transferred even though possession is transferred, at least not immediately. WoTC's agents' threatening behaviour to an innocent recipient is still tortious and possibly criminal, though.
Thanks for the clarification. That's why I consult with a real lawyer when it matters.
I read a bit about this on another gaming news spot. I'd guess he could at least get Pinkerton on criminal trespass and WotC on conspiracy because they hired the Pinkertons. If it were me I know I'd be pissed enough to pursue it to the full extent of the law.
Greetings!
Yeah! S'mon is great! He knows his stuff! He knows all the Lawyer things. It is refreshing, and gratifying, to know a real lawyer. Far too many yahoos online like to run their mouth about the law, when in reality they don't know a damned thing.
S'mon is always sober, knowledgeable, and laser-sharp.
I'm definitely with you, my friend. I'd have WOTC, HASBRO, and Pinkerton on the hook BIG. Yeah, I'd think with a case like this, a good truckload of lawyers would be lined up, eager to get to work!
Of course, knowing me--if these Pinkerton clowns showed up at *my* door, well, I would have much more to offer them besides coffee. It is just boggling to me. Making my wife cry? Puffing their chests out, and being tough guys? On my property? Oh yeah, man. I would definitely have something else for them, for damned sure.
These Pinkerton clowns really need to think, and remember something--people in America get shot and killed at MacDonalds for serving cold French Fries at the drive thru window. How do they think a man might respond to these goons showing up at your door, seeking to intimidate and threaten you, making your wife cry, while acting like thugs?
That could very easily end up being a fatal mistake of assumptions on their part. A very bad morning for them, for certain.
Nonetheless, WOTC needs to be grilled hard for this,as well as Pinkerton and Hasbro. Sending Pinkerton thugs to people's doors? Just mind-boggling. All for their stupid MTG card game. Yeah, I hope the customer and victim in all this GETS PAID, and HUGE.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
The Pinkertons had no authority, or jurisdiction. He should have told them off, and shut the door. If they chose to come through that door after he shut it, then he should have defended himself. It's as simple as that. Their bully tactics wouldn't have worked, at many private homes. Mess with the bull, get the horns.
And on the PR front, the latest reaction. Allen Varney's Bundle of Holding is now offering their Solidarity Bundle, with the following commentary:
Solidarity Bundle - Pinkerton-free through Wed 03 May
Through Wednesday, May 3 nobody will send security forces to your door to confiscate the RPGs in our new Solidarity Bundle. By focusing on corporate accountability and citizen empowerment, these games – about modern life, cryptography fantasy, and dystopian futures – help you understand why a Hasbro executive feels free to dispatch private security to your home to seize your purchases – and how we can start addressing that fact.
You can't buy this kind of publicity.
Quote from: Lidless_Eye on April 27, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
Oh, Pinkerton Agents are part of an actual organisation? I figured it was just what people in games like LA Noir called people who represented private interests. Like a catch-all, generalised term. The more you know.
Nevertheless, is it well established that this person was put under any legitimate duress? I would not consider, "please return our e-mail and calls, and please give us back our goods" (either in person or not) duress, by the way.
And I do not like Wizards of the Coast (for all of the obvious reasons...) for the record.
They are a real agency with a long history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)
Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2023, 01:49:54 PM
The Pinkertons had no authority, or jurisdiction. He should have told them off, and shut the door. If they chose to come through that door after he shut it, then he should have defended himself. It's as simple as that. Their bully tactics wouldn't have worked, at many private homes. Mess with the bull, get the horns.
I agree. Bullies only have power when people back down. If people push back on the bullies they lose their power.
Clownfish TV covered this story as well and Hasbro is connected to Pinkerton.
How Hasbro can be this stupidly arrogant is beyond me.
RPG Pundit: I love how jovial you are throughout this whole video!
A lot of people have made outrage reacts to the admittedly absurd action of sending some video game villain level bounty hunters to some poor dude's house, I really enjoyed just how fucking tickled pundit is about it. It's impossible to take too seriously, after all.
I'm reminded of the folks here who keep saying "Who cares if WotC has turned to the woke darkside? It's not like they're going to send people to your home to confiscate your old products."
Quote from: Mishihari on April 27, 2023, 07:20:49 PM"Who cares if WotC has turned to the woke darkside? It's not like they're going to send people to your home to confiscate your old products."
Technically still true: They will confiscate your NEW products. ;D
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 27, 2023, 07:31:06 PM
Technically still true: They will confiscate your NEW products. ;D
As of NOW, this is the case..."you have a POD of a title we pulled for being racially insensitive. Please send evidence of its destruction or we'll have someone confiscate it ASAP. Thank you for your cooperation, comrade."
WOTC just keeps on being everyone's favorite Coen Brothers fiasco. The historical TSR-WOTC-D&D movie is the real blockbuster to come.
Quote from: Brad on April 26, 2023, 10:56:03 AM
Is WotC run by actual Bolsheviks at this point?
I may need you to unpack this. Sending Pinkertons seems really shitty but it's right there with general capitalism at a crappy level.
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 27, 2023, 04:52:07 PM
RPG Pundit: I love how jovial you are throughout this whole video!
I can't help myself. It's just hilariously absurd.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 28, 2023, 07:04:05 PM
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 27, 2023, 04:52:07 PM
RPG Pundit: I love how jovial you are throughout this whole video!
I can't help myself. It's just hilariously absurd.
Don't underestimate the Pinkertons, a cap and ball pistol is no laughing matter.
Congratulations, RPGPundit! You started something.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/890643086848430180/1101837160694431834/image.png)
This was no boating accident!
I really don't get why WotC would hire goons; a phone call asking the person to delist the video to protect corporate secrets until the official spoiler in exchange for some exclusive content or free product would have been a no-brainer and would have been cheaper than hiring a squad of private investigators. Not to mention the risk of a public backlash, which at this point is water under the bridge as far as WotC is concerned. This isn't just stupid; it's shockingly stupid.
Quote from: Theory of Games on April 28, 2023, 01:00:09 PM
WOTC just keeps on being everyone's favorite Coen Brothers fiasco. The historical TSR-WOTC-D&D movie is the real blockbuster to come.
Actually the Coen Brothers are funny. This is just stupid.
Although WOTC screwing themselves time and time again is enjoyable.
Quote from: Grognard GM on April 28, 2023, 08:52:40 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 28, 2023, 07:04:05 PM
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 27, 2023, 04:52:07 PM
RPG Pundit: I love how jovial you are throughout this whole video!
I can't help myself. It's just hilariously absurd.
Don't underestimate the Pinkertons, a cap and ball pistol is no laughing matter.
I worked for CPP/Pinkerton (California Plant Protection bought the company back in the 80's or 90's... it's been resold several times since). The only thing at the company more voluminous than the enormous egos is the sheer incompetence. The average PI back then couldn't find a horse at the Kentucky Derby, but thought he was Magnum PI. Maybe they've improved over the decades...but I doubt it...
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 26, 2023, 11:02:02 AM
They sent goons to someone's house to do exactly what?
Sounds like someone violated the 'street date' rule - but accidentally.
The Gamer or store made an honest "oops" mistake.
-Ed C.
Quote from: Koltar on April 29, 2023, 07:21:21 PM
Sounds like someone violated the 'street date' rule - but accidentally.
The Gamer or store made an honest "oops" mistake.
-Ed C.
WOTC made the mistake. The person bought something, was sent the wrong thing by WOTC and then when they realized it they sent thugs.
WOTC can't help but continue to kill any good will they have.
Remember when TSR got raided by the FBI? (https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/07/bols-prime-top-secret-the-espionage-rpg-that-called-in-the-fbi-on-tsr.html) This is WOTC's "hold my beer" moment.
Quote from: Theory of Games on May 01, 2023, 01:44:52 PM
Remember when TSR got raided by the FBI? (https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/07/bols-prime-top-secret-the-espionage-rpg-that-called-in-the-fbi-on-tsr.html) This is WOTC's "hold my beer" moment.
I wasnt aware of that. I had Top Secret back then but never heard this story. I guess now that we have the internet its easier to get this kind of information out to more people.