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WotC & Hired Goons

Started by RPGPundit, April 26, 2023, 10:33:42 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

SHARK

Quote from: Brad on April 27, 2023, 05:55:15 AM
Quote from: S'mon on April 27, 2023, 05:13:23 AM
I wonder, do Pinkerton goons behave differently in the gun-toting South & Red States, than in more pacified parts of the country? Or do they go in expecting violence? I'm sure they're armed wherever concealed carry is legal. WoTC may have bad publicity now, but imagine if their thugs had killed a man on his own doorstep for receiving the wrong M:TG cards!  :o

So from what I understand now, WotC sent the wrong package, dude opens it and whatever and has no idea these are cards that aren't supposed to actually be released. Instead of contacting him directly they send the Pinkertons to go get the cards. There is no search warrant or anything of the sort, they are a private security group and have no legal basis for search and seizure, correct? Since I live in a "red state" (Texas), I can tell you they'd be really polite knocking on any doors and ask nicely for return of the merchandise. If they were reasonable I don't think anything would happen other than them getting the cards back. If they got pushy or had an attitude, there'd probably be some door slamming, with an inevitable escalation to buckshot, depending on just how pushy they did get. In my neighborhood most people are pretty nice, but even people I know pretty well would be more than willing to use lethal force on their property if they felt threatened, even by me. I am sure the goons would understand this and act accordingly.

Fantasies aside, why didn't WotC just fucking ASK for the stuff back? Why send the gestapo? I don't get it.

Greetings!

Yep, Brad! Same thing here in Idaho, where I am. Up here, people are very friendly and polite. However, also being a *Red State*--most people here are armed, and many are *highly armed*. Idaho has Constitutional Carry, which means that people can also conceal their firearms nearly anywhere they go. And yeah, people here would not respond well to Pinkerton tough guys acting like thugs in any way.

I wouldn't respond to such thugs well, either.

It is kind of weird even thinking about such an encounter--here, the Police are always super polite, to everyone. Well, Police here have no qualms about blazing on criminals at all. But normal folks? Yep. Police are courteous, polite, and professional. The police KNOW that everyone here is armed, too!

I have, I think, four law enforcement officers as neighbors. Two of them are police for my town, while the other two police officers live here, obviously, though they work in nearby towns just down the road. *Laughing*

I'd imagine Pinkerton Detectives would always be very polite here, in this state.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Brad

Quote from: Lidless_Eye on April 27, 2023, 06:14:20 AM
Americans are a strange bunch in any case. Very strange civilisation!

Yeah, we're strange in that we don't like being pushed around or told what to do by people with no authority to do so.
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

SHARK

Quote from: Lidless_Eye on April 27, 2023, 06:14:20 AM
Quote from: Brad on April 27, 2023, 05:55:15 AM
Fantasies aside, why didn't WotC just fucking ASK for the stuff back? Why send the gestapo? I don't get it.

Did they not do just that? It says that they tried to contact him (I assume by the e-mail or phone number he provided when buying the cards) and that they weren't able to reach him. Seems within reason that they would then send somebody to the address that he provided to ask him about it.
Shouldn't he also want the original product that he bought? I'm sure they're well within their rights to go to his address and ask if he'll give the cards back, and to also drop off the actual product. Whether they did it via intimidation or not is a whole other thing. If I was selling something to somebody and I sent the wrong item and he couldn't or wouldn't get back to me, I would certainly retrieve it were it within my means to do so.

Americans are a strange bunch in any case. Very strange civilisation!

Greetings!

Well, if an Insurance Agent comes over to my house, and returns later because he forgot his paperwork, or his phone, or something else that belongs to him, I'm not worried. I don't think anyone else would be anything but polite, courteous, and cooperative.

Just like no one gets aggressive if the Plumber comes over, or the Cable Guy, or a salesman for Solar Heaters.

Pinkerton Agents though? That implies *violence* and *force*. Americans don't like being intimidated, or threatened with violence, by anyone, at any time. We also do not appreciate strangers acting like tough guys, or thugs, on our own property, and making women cry.

That kind of behavior is a quick way to fuck around and find out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Lidless_Eye

Quote from: SHARK on April 27, 2023, 07:13:05 AM
Pinkerton Agents though? That implies *violence* and *force*. Americans don't like being intimidated, or threatened with violence, by anyone, at any time. We also do not appreciate strangers acting like tough guys, or thugs, on our own property, and making women cry.

That kind of behavior is a quick way to fuck around and find out.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Oh, Pinkerton Agents are part of an actual organisation? I figured it was just what people in games like LA Noir called people who represented private interests. Like a catch-all, generalised term. The more you know.
Nevertheless, is it well established that this person was put under any legitimate duress? I would not consider, "please return our e-mail and calls, and please give us back our goods" (either in person or not) duress, by the way.
And I do not like Wizards of the Coast (for all of the obvious reasons...) for the record.

Grognard GM

Was the fellow even legally required to return the product? I understand that WotC has a legal contract with the store, but the customer bought product in good faith, and is under no such contract.

Could he not just tell them to go piss up a rope?
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/

Jam The MF

Quote from: SHARK on April 27, 2023, 04:53:15 AM
Quote from: Mishihari on April 27, 2023, 03:57:50 AM
Quote from: S'mon on April 27, 2023, 03:29:05 AM
I'm pretty certain that mistakenly sending the wrong material in response to an order would NOT fall under this section, which is designed to deal with 'inertia selling'. The intent of the sender is quite different. The buyer did solicit goods, they just got the wrong goods. On standard Contract Law principles, there was no contract to transfer ownership of the goods that were actually sent. This typically means that ownership is not transferred even though possession is transferred, at least not immediately. WoTC's agents' threatening behaviour to an innocent recipient is still tortious and possibly criminal, though.

Thanks for the clarification.  That's why I consult with a real lawyer when it matters.

I read a bit about this on another gaming news spot.  I'd guess he could at least get Pinkerton on criminal trespass and WotC on conspiracy because they hired the Pinkertons.  If it were me I know I'd be pissed enough to pursue it to the full extent of the law.

Greetings!

Yeah! S'mon is great! He knows his stuff! He knows all the Lawyer things. It is refreshing, and gratifying, to know a real lawyer. Far too many yahoos online like to run their mouth about the law, when in reality they don't know a damned thing.

S'mon is always sober, knowledgeable, and laser-sharp.

I'm definitely with you, my friend. I'd have WOTC, HASBRO, and Pinkerton on the hook BIG. Yeah, I'd think with a case like this, a good truckload of lawyers would be lined up, eager to get to work!

Of course, knowing me--if these Pinkerton clowns showed up at *my* door, well, I would have much more to offer them besides coffee. It is just boggling to me. Making my wife cry? Puffing their chests out, and being tough guys? On my property? Oh yeah, man. I would definitely have something else for them, for damned sure.

These Pinkerton clowns really need to think, and remember something--people in America get shot and killed at MacDonalds for serving cold French Fries at the drive thru window. How do they think a man might respond to these goons showing up at your door, seeking to intimidate and threaten you, making your wife cry, while acting like thugs?

That could very easily end up being a fatal mistake of assumptions on their part. A very bad morning for them, for certain.

Nonetheless, WOTC needs to be grilled hard for this,as well as Pinkerton and Hasbro. Sending Pinkerton thugs to people's doors? Just mind-boggling. All for their stupid MTG card game. Yeah, I hope the customer and victim in all this GETS PAID, and HUGE.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


The Pinkertons had no authority, or jurisdiction.  He should have told them off, and shut the door.  If they chose to come through that door after he shut it, then he should have defended himself.  It's as simple as that.  Their bully tactics wouldn't have worked, at many private homes.  Mess with the bull, get the horns.
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

Baron

#36
And on the PR front, the latest reaction. Allen Varney's Bundle of Holding is now offering their Solidarity Bundle, with the following commentary:

Solidarity Bundle - Pinkerton-free through Wed 03 May

Through Wednesday, May 3 nobody will send security forces to your door to confiscate the RPGs in our new Solidarity Bundle. By focusing on corporate accountability and citizen empowerment, these games – about modern life, cryptography fantasy, and dystopian futures – help you understand why a Hasbro executive feels free to dispatch private security to your home to seize your purchases – and how we can start addressing that fact.


You can't buy this kind of publicity.

GhostNinja

Quote from: Lidless_Eye on April 27, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
Oh, Pinkerton Agents are part of an actual organisation? I figured it was just what people in games like LA Noir called people who represented private interests. Like a catch-all, generalised term. The more you know.
Nevertheless, is it well established that this person was put under any legitimate duress? I would not consider, "please return our e-mail and calls, and please give us back our goods" (either in person or not) duress, by the way.
And I do not like Wizards of the Coast (for all of the obvious reasons...) for the record.

They are a real agency with a long history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)
Ghostninja

GhostNinja

Quote from: Jam The MF on April 27, 2023, 01:49:54 PM

The Pinkertons had no authority, or jurisdiction.  He should have told them off, and shut the door.  If they chose to come through that door after he shut it, then he should have defended himself.  It's as simple as that.  Their bully tactics wouldn't have worked, at many private homes.  Mess with the bull, get the horns.

I agree.  Bullies only have power when people back down.  If people push back on the bullies they lose their power.
Ghostninja

jeff37923

Clownfish TV covered this story as well and Hasbro is connected to Pinkerton.

How Hasbro can be this stupidly arrogant is beyond me.


"Meh."

Cathode Ray

RPG Pundit: I love how jovial you are throughout this whole video!
Resident 1980s buff msg me to talk 80s

Venka

A lot of people have made outrage reacts to the admittedly absurd action of sending some video game villain level bounty hunters to some poor dude's house, I really enjoyed just how fucking tickled pundit is about it.  It's impossible to take too seriously, after all.

Mishihari

I'm reminded of the folks here who keep saying "Who cares if WotC has turned to the woke darkside?  It's not like they're going to send people to your home to confiscate your old products."

Shrieking Banshee

Quote from: Mishihari on April 27, 2023, 07:20:49 PM"Who cares if WotC has turned to the woke darkside?  It's not like they're going to send people to your home to confiscate your old products."

Technically still true: They will confiscate your NEW products.  ;D

Brad

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 27, 2023, 07:31:06 PM
Technically still true: They will confiscate your NEW products.  ;D

As of NOW, this is the case..."you have a POD of a title we pulled for being racially insensitive. Please send evidence of its destruction or we'll have someone confiscate it ASAP. Thank you for your cooperation, comrade."
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.