I'm voting with my wallet. I won't be buying the 2024 versions of the D&D books. I'm just not going to support any of the stupidity

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 18, 2023, 08:56:05 PM

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 18, 2023, 03:35:10 PM
So I read the blog post. Someone better back it up because it's making the round in anti-PC circles and the author might yank it for fear of giving ammunition to his 'enemies'.

The current list of banned words/concepts now includes: civilized, civilization, dark, madness, insane, crazy, dim-witted, fat, slave, slavery, savage (both noun AND adjective), primitive, mate (verb), breeding, shun (verb), dark elf, basic gender distinctions, blind (as a metaphor), ki (monk power)...

I don't know which aspect of me is more frustrated with this infantilizing language butchery, my gamer self, my English teacher self, or my freethinker self.

The worst part? There actually is a place for softer, gentler settings and games in this hobby. I've RUN softer gentler games that sidestepped these adult concepts, even for audiences of adults who wanted a break from the nastiness of the real world.

But I categorically reject the idea that it's morally necessary to try and soft-brainwash people by warping the flagship game of the hobby into some schizophrenic Disneyland where murdering things with swords and fireballs is still the primary method of problem-solving!

Quote from: rytrasmi on November 18, 2023, 03:19:06 PM
... but what the hell bounces around this guys mind?

"I personally would remove any mention of slavery."

"Favorite Setting: Dark Sun, then Greyhawk"

One wonders how his head doesn't rupture from all the sanctimonious cognitive dissonance he forces it to contain.

But maybe there's an explanation:
- Perhaps HIS Dark Sun still contains slavery because HE knows how to handle it properly, not like the intellectual peasants he's trying to protect from the KKK influence of D&D.
- Maybe HIS Dark Sun is more like a sanitized Mad Max meets Captain Planet. HIS bad guys just pollute and murder. Murder is less traumatic, you know?

"Alright boys, go and have your wicked fun decapitating, impaling, sacrificing and burning, hehehe! Oh, but not raping or enslaving, we're not monsters!"

someone already did:

https://archive.is/NZeWL#

Uh... What a filthy dweeb.

Of course, you now know what words that YOU MUST include in your own RPG material.

I don't need or want my D&D books pre-sanitized for me.  For one thing, kids are not the delicate little snowflakes some people like to pretend that they are.  As someone already mentioned, Roald Dahl's books get quite dark and they are generally considered to be for kids ages 7-9.  Also, if I want an rpg that is made for kids, there are several such games available.  I own My Little Pony: Tails of Equestria, Little Wizard, Fairy's Tale and Magical Kitties Save the Day but there are lots more out there.  If I want to run D&D for kids, I don't need it pre-sanitized for me.  If I think that certain elements are not suitable for kids, I can just leave them out of that particular adventure.  The content of that adventure is what I put in and what I decide to allow.  Also, a lot of the stuff people are talking about has nothing to do with making a game kid-friendly.  A lot of this stuff, like all of the decolonization stuff, is clearly ideologically driven.  All of this "won't you think of the children" stuff is just a pretense.  This isn't about protecting children or any of that nonsense.  It's about exerting power and making the game what they want it to be.     

Quote from: tenbones on November 21, 2023, 02:29:10 AM
With 6e coming out, does anyone really care at this point?

I mean 5e is going to get all the content it likely will ever have outside of 3rd parties, and lets be honest - it's all been largely dogshit compared to their older editions. WotC is just sailing off into the sunset lobbing turds at everyone. Let them sail on! Icebergs ahead!

They are certainly lobbing their fair share.

Quote from: Tasty_Wind on November 21, 2023, 06:38:56 PM
Does anyone believe for a second that this guy has ever read, let alone played, Dark Sun?

Oh I believe him, because he's posted several long essays on the setting. For instance, this one:
https://alphastream.org/index.php/2015/10/02/shh-unspeakable-organizations-in-dark-sun/

Which produced this quote:

QuoteSecret organizations often cause your PC to examine their worldview – where does the PC stand on issues like slavery, magic, Sorcerer-Kings, the ages of Athas, or the Dragon?

A very moral-relativist attitude toward slavery which I'm sure he would publicly flagellate himself for now.

In fact, here he explains why we must sanitize the past, including Dark Sun:
https://alphastream.org/index.php/2021/08/27/how-to-grow-old-in-tabletop-rpgs/

Key quote:

QuoteI love Dark Sun, but I hear a lot of people saying they are harmed by the inclusion of slavery. You know, no game is worth harming people. And we are smart and capable. We can modify Dark Sun to no longer have slavery. It isn't essential. We can work with PoC designers, who should be on our staff anyway, to make a better Dark Sun.

Buddy, do you realize how hypocritical it is to ban the idea of slavery while keeping the ultra-violence and daily suffering of a setting like Dark Sun? Are murder and desperate poverty just a game to you? If you care that much about the harm caused by fictional worlds, the correct move is not to sanitize one small part of Dark Sun's savagery brutality, it's to abandon Dark Sun altogether!

So words to use at your table and in your RPG publications - a non-exhaustive list.

• Primitive
  Civilized (Civilised lands)
  Barbarian
  Savage
  Madness
  Insane (Insane with)
  Crazy
  Mad person (Mad Man or Woman)
  Lunatics
  Dim-witted
  Fat
  Slaves
  Guild (WTF?)
  Dark Ritual (DARK WTF?)

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 22, 2023, 06:46:44 AM

Quote from: Tasty_Wind on November 21, 2023, 06:38:56 PM
Does anyone believe for a second that this guy has ever read, let alone played, Dark Sun?

Oh I believe him, because he's posted several long essays on the setting. For instance, this one:
https://alphastream.org/index.php/2015/10/02/shh-unspeakable-organizations-in-dark-sun/

Which produced this quote:

QuoteSecret organizations often cause your PC to examine their worldview – where does the PC stand on issues like slavery, magic, Sorcerer-Kings, the ages of Athas, or the Dragon?

A very moral-relativist attitude toward slavery which I'm sure he would publicly flagellate himself for now.

In fact, here he explains why we must sanitize the past, including Dark Sun:
https://alphastream.org/index.php/2021/08/27/how-to-grow-old-in-tabletop-rpgs/

Key quote:

QuoteI love Dark Sun, but I hear a lot of people saying they are harmed by the inclusion of slavery. You know, no game is worth harming people. And we are smart and capable. We can modify Dark Sun to no longer have slavery. It isn't essential. We can work with PoC designers, who should be on our staff anyway, to make a better Dark Sun.

Buddy, do you realize how hypocritical it is to ban the idea of slavery while keeping the ultra-violence and daily suffering of a setting like Dark Sun? Are murder and desperate poverty just a game to you? If you care that much about the harm caused by fictional worlds, the correct move is not to sanitize one small part of Dark Sun's savagery brutality, it's to abandon Dark Sun altogether!

So he's like the legion of Millennials that were obsessed with Harry Potter like a cult, but sawed off their own fandom like a gangrenous limb when their new cult of DIE demanded a sacrifice.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 22, 2023, 06:46:44 AM
Buddy, do you realize how hypocritical it is to ban the idea of slavery while keeping the ultra-violence and daily suffering of a setting like Dark Sun? Are murder and desperate poverty just a game to you? If you care that much about the harm caused by fictional worlds, the correct move is not to sanitize one small part of Dark Sun's savagery brutality, it's to abandon Dark Sun altogether!

What I find worse is that they're basically trying to pretend that slavery doesn't exist. Particularly when WotC is using terms like "servant" or "laborer", which to me imply consent. So if the drow are going to the surface world because they need "laborers", should we now picture a drow pulling up in a pickup to Waterdeep's Home Depot looking for migrants to come down and put up drywall in Menzoberranzen?

I guess it would be one thing if the game or gaming groups were glorifying slavery, but that's not something I've typically seen myself. It's something that makes people uncomfortable as it should, and it's one of the easiest tropes to drive a motivation or storyline - we need to stop the slavemasters! We need to free these people! etc.

It's like some of the examples these guys have in their "safety tools" video (just ran across them on YT):

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqqzOmpD6EE

It's a solution in search of a problem.

Quote from: Kanyenya on November 22, 2023, 02:48:28 PMSo if the drow are going to the surface world because they need "laborers", should we now picture a drow pulling up in a pickup to Waterdeep's Home Depot looking for migrants to come down and put up drywall in Menzoberranzen?

Don't be ridiculous.

Drow pulling up on a huge Drider to Waterdeep's Carpenters, Roofers, and Plasterers Guildhall; looking for migrants to come down and put up drywall in Menzoberranzen.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on November 22, 2023, 06:51:56 AM
So words to use at your table and in your RPG publications - a non-exhaustive list.

• Primitive
  Civilized (Civilised lands)
  Barbarian
  Savage
  Madness
  Insane (Insane with)
  Crazy
  Mad person (Mad Man or Woman)
  Lunatics
  Dim-witted
  Fat
  Slaves
  Guild (WTF?)
  Dark Ritual (DARK WTF?)

The best part is that some of the greatest modules made used plenty of these ideas! I remember using B2 Keep on the Borderlands to kick off a massive Viking-themed campaign, and if the guys who wrote this article played it they would've lost their minds. It had barbarians, savagery, guilds, madness. It's almost like that's more fun than roleplaying medieval fantasy prom.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on November 22, 2023, 08:19:47 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on November 22, 2023, 06:51:56 AM
So words to use at your table and in your RPG publications - a non-exhaustive list.

• Primitive
  Civilized (Civilised lands)
  Barbarian
  Savage
  Madness
  Insane (Insane with)
  Crazy
  Mad person (Mad Man or Woman)
  Lunatics
  Dim-witted
  Fat
  Slaves
  Guild (WTF?)
  Dark Ritual (DARK WTF?)

The best part is that some of the greatest modules made used plenty of these ideas! I remember using B2 Keep on the Borderlands to kick off a massive Viking-themed campaign, and if the guys who wrote this article played it they would've lost their minds. It had barbarians, savagery, guilds, madness. It's almost like that's more fun than roleplaying medieval fantasy prom.

Absolutely... And a plethora of other classic fantasy games as well.
When you hire 'sensitivity readers' just for the 'optics' you know those parasites will have to find something to cry about. If they didn't they would be out of a job. They need the company's dollah'. And at the same time they promote the concept of a safety whateverthefucks.

Bunch of fat dim-witted imbecilic gimp morons.

So what we are seeing is the end of D&D. It's not going out with even a whimper.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 22, 2023, 09:45:27 PM
So what we are seeing is the end of D&D. It's not going out with even a whimper.

Isn't that a good thing? Let it burn... And let the ashes be sold to someone that actually gives a shit about the I.P.

Meanwhile, the OSR is doing pretty damn well.

Hasbro needs to step in and stop the idiocy before it sinks the property. It's obvious that Wizards can't be trusted with it anymore.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 22, 2023, 06:46:44 AM

Key quote:

QuoteI love Dark Sun, but I hear a lot of people saying they are harmed by the inclusion of slavery. You know, no game is worth harming people. And we are smart and capable. We can modify Dark Sun to no longer have slavery. It isn't essential. We can work with PoC designers, who should be on our staff anyway, to make a better Dark Sun.

Buddy, do you realize how hypocritical it is to ban the idea of slavery while keeping the ultra-violence and daily suffering of a setting like Dark Sun? Are murder and desperate poverty just a game to you? If you care that much about the harm caused by fictional worlds, the correct move is not to sanitize one small part of Dark Sun's savagery brutality, it's to abandon Dark Sun altogether!

I have a question.

"I love Dark Sun, but I hear a lot of people saying they are harmed by the inclusion of slavery."

How, exactly, are they being harmed by the inclusion of slavery in Dark Sun?  What harm are they suffering?