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5E Core Book Sensitivity and Inclusivity Changes

Started by Katowice, November 18, 2023, 02:38:29 PM

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Ratman_tf

#15
November 19, 2023, 04:21:07 PM
Quote from: Bedrockbrendan on November 19, 2023, 08:53:14 AM
i find the idea that D&D, or any type of art, game, etc needs to be decolonized very troubling. It never seems to make anything better and it feels like it stems from an inability to understand media and art from different times. Also has a great deal in common with various forms of puritanism

Decolonization is the latest* woke idiocy. It's another attempt to tear down existing heirarchies and replace them with their own, terrible heirarchies.
*latest in that it's been getting a lot of talk re current politics.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

GhostNinja

#16
November 20, 2023, 09:25:03 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 19, 2023, 04:21:07 PM
Decolonization is the latest* woke idiocy. It's another attempt to tear down existing hierarchies and replace them with their own, terrible hierarchies.
*latest in that it's been getting a lot of talk re current politics.

Wouldn't be surprised if they take Gary Gygax's name off of the new edition, just to fully erase the past.

I posted a comment on the idiot who posted that blog post's video.  Hasn't replied (Yet he replied to everyone else).

Guess the truth hurts.
Ghostninja

Votan

#17
November 20, 2023, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: BytomMan on November 18, 2023, 02:38:29 PM
Looks like more of this nonsense coming down the pike, some of it already known:

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/11/17/what-we-can-learn-from-wotcs-core-book-sensitivity-and-inclusivity-changes/

I am not too bothered by very bland core books for the large scale audience. I want to be able to give them to kids and to include the widest range of possible players. Much easier to add grimdark to taste than to work around it with core rulebooks.

With setting books (e.g., Spelljammer) this is a much worse idea because these details are part of the point of the setting.

Shipyard Locked

#18
November 20, 2023, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:15:19 PM
I am not too bothered by very bland core books for the large scale audience. I want to be able to give them to kids and to include the widest range of possible players. Much easier to add grimdark to taste than to work around it with core rulebooks.

Hmm, I guess I can accept that argument to some extent, but them trying to shift the Overton window until ideas like 'madness' and 'civilization' are taboo makes me nervous about what they'll demand next for the (supposed) good of children and child-like adults.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
― Mark Twain
(Yes, I appreciate the irony of a vegan posting this quote.)

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 20, 2023, 09:25:03 AM
I posted a comment on the idiot who posted that blog post's video.  Hasn't replied (Yet he replied to everyone else).

Guess the truth hurts.

Don't even bother, you'll just make 'your side' look bad, and they only thing that has any chance of reaching ideologues that far gone is lost sales/votes/clicks.

Votan

#19
November 20, 2023, 01:55:20 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 20, 2023, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:15:19 PM
I am not too bothered by very bland core books for the large scale audience. I want to be able to give them to kids and to include the widest range of possible players. Much easier to add grimdark to taste than to work around it with core rulebooks.

Hmm, I guess I can accept that argument to some extent, but them trying to shift the Overton window until ideas like 'madness' and 'civilization' are taboo makes me nervous about what they'll demand next for the (supposed) good of children and child-like adults.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
― Mark Twain
(Yes, I appreciate the irony of a vegan posting this quote.)

Yeah, the slippery slope piece is real. This review of the new Planescape is concerning and make me less likely to buy it: https://youtu.be/YCs0qFvwvlY?si=jk6kt0puSBkQrz3C

But I also like that my six year old can flip through my 5E rulebooks with no concern on my part. That's not true of my OSR books or my settings supplements. But I think that there really is a big difference with the core D&D rules. By definition they should be either evocative or pabulum, the middle course makes no sense. I respect the argument that AD&D 1E was evocative and not pabulum, but with a mature line I see the business argument for pabulum.

But having mashed potatoes on the plate doesn't mean that the adults can't have steak.  :)

Grognard GM

#20
November 20, 2023, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: BytomMan on November 18, 2023, 02:38:29 PM
Looks like more of this nonsense coming down the pike, some of it already known:

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/11/17/what-we-can-learn-from-wotcs-core-book-sensitivity-and-inclusivity-changes/

I am not too bothered by very bland core books for the large scale audience. I want to be able to give them to kids and to include the widest range of possible players. Much easier to add grimdark to taste than to work around it with core rulebooks.

With setting books (e.g., Spelljammer) this is a much worse idea because these details are part of the point of the setting.

RPGs aren't Lego, they aren't meant to be primarily marketed to young kids. So we'll have to agree to disagree on bland pap being a good default.

Even if it was meant for kids, kids love fun with a dash of dark, that's why Roald Dahl was so popular. The modern push to sanitize everything meant for children is, in of itself, unhealthy.

PS - How in God's name did you just associate pre-censorship D&D with Grimdark? You be clownin', holmes.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/

Grognard GM

#21
November 20, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:55:20 PMBut I also like that my six year old can flip through my 5E rulebooks with no concern on my part.

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/106605/Hero-Kids--Fantasy-RPG?affiliate_id=1378544 That's what you need to be handing your 6 year old, not championing filing all the edges out of the most popular RPG game.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/

GeekyBugle

#22
November 20, 2023, 02:26:40 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on November 20, 2023, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: BytomMan on November 18, 2023, 02:38:29 PM
Looks like more of this nonsense coming down the pike, some of it already known:

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/11/17/what-we-can-learn-from-wotcs-core-book-sensitivity-and-inclusivity-changes/

I am not too bothered by very bland core books for the large scale audience. I want to be able to give them to kids and to include the widest range of possible players. Much easier to add grimdark to taste than to work around it with core rulebooks.

With setting books (e.g., Spelljammer) this is a much worse idea because these details are part of the point of the setting.

RPGs aren't Lego, they aren't meant to be primarily marketed to young kids. So we'll have to agree to disagree on bland pap being a good default.

Even if it was meant for kids, kids love fun with a dash of dark, that's why Roald Dahl was so popular. The modern push to sanitize everything meant for children is, in of itself, unhealthy.

PS - How in God's name did you just associate pre-censorship D&D with Grimdark? You be clownin', holmes.

Books with lots of gender ideology and "decolonization" ideas plastered all over aren't for kids EVER, regardless of if they have "grimdark" stuff or not.

There already exist RPGs aimed at children, turning the resto to leftard grey goo isn't going to turn them into something I would think is good to give to children.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

#23
November 20, 2023, 02:28:05 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on November 20, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:55:20 PMBut I also like that my six year old can flip through my 5E rulebooks with no concern on my part.

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/106605/Hero-Kids--Fantasy-RPG?affiliate_id=1378544 That's what you need to be handing your 6 year old, not championing filing all the edges out of the most popular RPG game.

So the gender ideology, comunism and racism being baked into 5e isn't concerning when handling the books to children...
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

#24
November 20, 2023, 02:31:28 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 20, 2023, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:15:19 PM
I am not too bothered by very bland core books for the large scale audience. I want to be able to give them to kids and to include the widest range of possible players. Much easier to add grimdark to taste than to work around it with core rulebooks.

Hmm, I guess I can accept that argument to some extent, but them trying to shift the Overton window until ideas like 'madness' and 'civilization' are taboo makes me nervous about what they'll demand next for the (supposed) good of children and child-like adults.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
― Mark Twain
(Yes, I appreciate the irony of a vegan posting this quote.)

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 20, 2023, 09:25:03 AM
I posted a comment on the idiot who posted that blog post's video.  Hasn't replied (Yet he replied to everyone else).

Guess the truth hurts.

Don't even bother, you'll just make 'your side' look bad, and they only thing that has any chance of reaching ideologues that far gone is lost sales/votes/clicks.

Vegan friendly (Can't fucking believe I'm doing ANYTHING vegan friendly) paraphrasing of Mark Twain:

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have peanuts just because someone somewhere might be alergic to them"
― Mark Twain
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Grognard GM

#25
November 20, 2023, 02:31:53 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 20, 2023, 02:28:05 PM
Quote from: Grognard GM on November 20, 2023, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:55:20 PMBut I also like that my six year old can flip through my 5E rulebooks with no concern on my part.

https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/106605/Hero-Kids--Fantasy-RPG?affiliate_id=1378544 That's what you need to be handing your 6 year old, not championing filing all the edges out of the most popular RPG game.

So the gender ideology, comunism and racism being baked into 5e isn't concerning when handling the books to children...

I wouldn't hand a kid 5e unless he was a demon child like Damien, and I didn't have an enchanted dagger. What we were discussing is whether to shave stuff off the existing game, discussing all the shit they add is a whole other thread.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

See below:

https://www.therpgsite.com/news-and-adverts/looking-to-form-a-group-of-people-with-lots-of-spare-time-for-regular-games/

Kanyenya

#26
November 20, 2023, 11:59:07 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on November 20, 2023, 09:25:03 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on November 19, 2023, 04:21:07 PM
Decolonization is the latest* woke idiocy. It's another attempt to tear down existing hierarchies and replace them with their own, terrible hierarchies.
*latest in that it's been getting a lot of talk re current politics.

Wouldn't be surprised if they take Gary Gygax's name off of the new edition, just to fully erase the past.

I posted a comment on the idiot who posted that blog post's video.  Hasn't replied (Yet he replied to everyone else).

Guess the truth hurts.

I didn't see any quotes that he didn't reply to, so I'm guessing it's been removed by now. Didn't see your name either, if you use the same handle on YT as here.

tenbones

#27
November 21, 2023, 02:29:10 AM
With 6e coming out, does anyone really care at this point?

I mean 5e is going to get all the content it likely will ever have outside of 3rd parties, and lets be honest - it's all been largely dogshit compared to their older editions. WotC is just sailing off into the sunset lobbing turds at everyone. Let them sail on! Icebergs ahead!

Ghostmaker

#28
November 21, 2023, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 20, 2023, 02:31:28 PM
Quote from: Shipyard Locked on November 20, 2023, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: Votan on November 20, 2023, 01:15:19 PM
I am not too bothered by very bland core books for the large scale audience. I want to be able to give them to kids and to include the widest range of possible players. Much easier to add grimdark to taste than to work around it with core rulebooks.

Hmm, I guess I can accept that argument to some extent, but them trying to shift the Overton window until ideas like 'madness' and 'civilization' are taboo makes me nervous about what they'll demand next for the (supposed) good of children and child-like adults.

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it."
― Mark Twain
(Yes, I appreciate the irony of a vegan posting this quote.)

Quote from: GhostNinja on November 20, 2023, 09:25:03 AM
I posted a comment on the idiot who posted that blog post's video.  Hasn't replied (Yet he replied to everyone else).

Guess the truth hurts.

Don't even bother, you'll just make 'your side' look bad, and they only thing that has any chance of reaching ideologues that far gone is lost sales/votes/clicks.

Vegan friendly (Can't fucking believe I'm doing ANYTHING vegan friendly) paraphrasing of Mark Twain:

"Censorship is telling a man he can't have peanuts just because someone somewhere might be alergic to them"
― Mark Twain
Well played :)

Tasty_Wind

#29
November 21, 2023, 06:38:56 PM
Quote from: rytrasmi on November 18, 2023, 03:19:06 PM
And the milquetoast-ification continues...

Edit: I admit I only skimmed this, but what the hell bounces around this guys mind?

"I personally would remove any mention of slavery."

"Favorite Setting: Dark Sun, then Greyhawk"
Does anyone believe for a second that this guy has ever read, let alone played, Dark Sun? It wreaks of "how do you do, fellow gamers".
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