Yeah, this more or less confirms that Pundit has been a shitheel for long enough that literally ALL of his reliable inside sources have either given up on talking to him or are just actively feeding him bad information, what a long fall it has been. Literally everyone in our space knows it's an open secret that they're pushing the VTT heavily as their main product but they're still going to be making physical books, it's just going to be second priority and they won't be killing nearly as many trees as before since the demand for physical books has fallen off a cliff in the last decade.

At least you can keep making money pretending to care about conservatism to the retards you've duped so far.

Quote from: DefNotAnInsiderNopeNoWay on August 15, 2024, 01:25:24 PMYeah, this more or less confirms that Pundit has been a shitheel for long enough that literally ALL of his reliable inside sources have either given up on talking to him or are just actively feeding him bad information, what a long fall it has been. Literally everyone in our space knows it's an open secret that they're pushing the VTT heavily as their main product but they're still going to be making physical books, it's just going to be second priority and they won't be killing nearly as many trees as before since the demand for physical books has fallen off a cliff in the last decade.

At least you can keep making money pretending to care about conservatism to the retards you've duped so far.

So WotC ending it's decades long distribution deal with Random House is just a nothingburger?

Outside of the 3 core books, D&D print products never bring in enough of a profit margin to really justify them. It's been this way since, well forever, but in particular since 1983 or 1994. (Pick your inflection point, the 1983 book sales crash, or TSR's reaction to MTG a decade later).

Splats, after the first year or two don't sell well, campaign settings divide the audience, box sets cost way too much to manufacture. Hell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

We have 50 years of sales numbers that prove this.

Quote from: DefNotAnInsiderNopeNoWay on August 15, 2024, 01:25:24 PMYeah, this more or less confirms that Pundit has been a shitheel for long enough that literally ALL of his reliable inside sources have either given up on talking to him or are just actively feeding him bad information, what a long fall it has been. Literally everyone in our space knows it's an open secret that they're pushing the VTT heavily as their main product but they're still going to be making physical books, it's just going to be second priority and they won't be killing nearly as many trees as before since the demand for physical books has fallen off a cliff in the last decade.

At least you can keep making money pretending to care about conservatism to the retards you've duped so far.

Hilarious that whatever sockpuppet account this is of some loser who got himself banned here previously is trying to make these claims, without saying who they are.
Everyone knows why insiders would talk to me, dude. Just like everyone knows why you're shitposting on theRPGsite in rage at me and lying about everything else.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

It wasn't. 4E was hot garbage from the get go. Essentials was an attempt to fix it. But the writing was on the wall before they even hit retail.

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

  By that time, 4E had acquired a reputation, and the fact that the second half corresponds with a lot of the distribution channels collapsing probably contributed. I acquired a lot of my late 4E material from dying Borders stores.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 16, 2024, 08:01:56 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

  By that time, 4E had acquired a reputation, and the fact that the second half corresponds with a lot of the distribution channels collapsing probably contributed. I acquired a lot of my late 4E material from dying Borders stores.

Are/were you industry?

The Distribution collapse of that era is not wide known or understood.

I was suprised to read this. Outside of old work friends, I get blank stares when I babble about TTRPG realpolitik.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 16, 2024, 10:01:57 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 16, 2024, 08:01:56 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

  By that time, 4E had acquired a reputation, and the fact that the second half corresponds with a lot of the distribution channels collapsing probably contributed. I acquired a lot of my late 4E material from dying Borders stores.

Are/were you industry?

The Distribution collapse of that era is not wide known or understood.

I was suprised to read this. Outside of old work friends, I get blank stares when I babble about TTRPG realpolitik.

   No (2 Dragon articles and an appendix to a WotC hardcover novel to my credit ). But I was aware of the bookstore collapse and suspected it had something to do with later 4E's problems, especially since Essentials was meant for more casual markets like bookstores and was released just in time for that collapse.

If any of the recent WotC statements go through, at the very least they are going to heavily push the VTT, tentatively called Sigil, hard. And as an IP platform rather than a D&D platform. Hence why it reads like a poor mans Tabeltop Simulator with better graphics.

Sweet Jesus, I'll soon be done having to run WotC D&D. With a mere 5 minutes explanation I was able to easily show my main player just using the wolf (beast) and command spell from the new PHB that the entire game is now designed as VTT compatible first, and as a TTRPG second.

He's out, I'm hyped. What should I run in a couple months after I wrap up the current 5E Dragonlance campaign?

We've already discussed Savage Rifts, Classic Deadlands, Superheroes (V&V or SW). I haven't brought it up yet, but I'm hankering for some 1E AD&D 3 core books only, No UA. I've always been a sucker for Gygaxian naturalism and hex crawling.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 21, 2024, 11:56:23 PMI haven't brought it up yet, but I'm hankering for some 1E AD&D 3 core books only, No UA.

For the last few years, whenever I have wanted to run something with the spirit of D&D but not the rules (which, in any edition, have never been my favorite), I pull out Shadow of the Demon Lord.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2024, 12:47:35 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 21, 2024, 11:56:23 PMI haven't brought it up yet, but I'm hankering for some 1E AD&D 3 core books only, No UA.

For the last few years, whenever I have wanted to run something with the spirit of D&D but not the rules (which, in any edition, have never been my favorite), I pull out Shadow of the Demon Lord.

I prefer T&T (Tunnels & Trolls). It is definitely not D&D but still oldschool as hell. I do know that a lot of players gave (then) and give (now) it a sniff of disapproval. Calling it a cheap knockoff and other things through the years.

But you know what: They don't know the game at all. Sorry, but the game which introduced spell point magic, damage reduction through armor, attribute damage in general and in particular exhaustion damage, regeneration rules, weapon categories with rules, each weapon could also have own rules for usage too, armor parts for the do-your-own-armor, attribute modfifier for non human characters (No, OD&D didn't have this), attribute increase after level up, the luck attribute and inspired the creation of RuneQuest, should get more attention. RuneQuests dedication to Gygax and Arneson is often citated, but the dedication also included Ken St Andre.

The blog Save Versus All Wands presented in 2017 a 14 (!) part comparision of 1st Edition T&T with Original D&D. Well spend time.

Well, I hope you guys check out my games, if you want something easily identifiable to D&D players but nothing like what WotC does today.

From the latest interviews about what WOTC has planned for Sigil, it looks like a microtransaction hellscape and that all of the unbalanced power creep stuff in the 2024 edition was by design. The groundwork for a pay for power ups cash grab as it were. There were also hints that they want Sigil to eventually be a place where they can mix in other IP's with D&D. Based on how overtly dismissive of dungeon masters this all sounds my bet is that they are going to try and roll out AI game masters. This whole thing looks like such a mess, I shall enjoy watching from afar with a big bowl of popcorn.

With luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.