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The only thing I like more than being proven right is being proven right almost immediately. The latest from Hasbro shows they're done with books. #wotc
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 07, 2024, 03:08:29 PMThe only thing I like more than being proven right is being proven right almost immediately. The latest from Hasbro shows they're done with books. #wotc
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

I seem to remember some other poster claiming you were all wrong about this and that, once proven wrong, you'd quietly ignore the proof and move on to other topics. 

I wonder if that other poster will quietly ignore this and move on to other topics...

There were quite a few people saying this.  So I guess anyone wanting to buy the new books will have to get digital or nothing.

I wasn't planning on getting the new books (or giving shitheads of the coast) another dime anyway but since I am print or nothing that makes it much easier to resist buying the books.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2024, 04:29:30 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 07, 2024, 03:08:29 PMThe only thing I like more than being proven right is being proven right almost immediately. The latest from Hasbro shows they're done with books. #wotc
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

I seem to remember some other poster claiming you were all wrong about this and that, once proven wrong, you'd quietly ignore the proof and move on to other topics. 

I wonder if that other poster will quietly ignore this and move on to other topics...

If you watch the video, you see I talk about this.

Are you not tired of bullshitting people? You know damn well they didn't say or imply they're done with books due to the VTT. So far, the VTT isn't even linked to the rules and is system neutral FFS! But I will listen to your video first. I don't have a beef with you (I like your viewpoint, when you're not in-character) I am just tired of the schtick of your character.

So, on the "nothing is announced" that's NORMAL for WOTC for years now (which is irritating pf course). It's from this stupid policy of "create buzz only about what's about to come out and don't spread the buzz across many books" thing. They have just the three books going three months, and that's about as far as they've been announcing for years now. When they are done coming out, we will get another announcement. And then when that comes out, another announcement. That's how they've operated for years.

Them adding new money to digital is not, in any way, a sign they won't be spending their normal money on books. How is "adding more money" on top of the regular budget saying anything about books? They didn't say all money will be spent on digital - they said they're adding MORE money FOR DIGITAL.

OK I've listened to your video. YOU SHOW ZERO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM.

I'm just saying it. Pundit, you're a liar on this topic. WOTC doesn't say or imply they will not be making books. Them investing additional funds to digital isn't taking away the existing money in books. You're just a bullshitter who is bluffing, and you will weasel away on this claim as soon as the first book comes out after the core books.

It's going to be awesome. You will bullshit some more, saying "OH I said they might do a few nooks" and then after they do more than a few, you will make up some new excuse. And eventually you'll just drop it or find some new reason to bullshit and not admit you lied.

Shame on you man. Everything you say is speculation, and you're just stating it, and then claiming you're going to be right, and from that claiming you are actually right now right because you might turn out to be right even though you have no evidence to back it up right now. Typically bullshitter tactics.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 07, 2024, 04:29:30 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 07, 2024, 03:08:29 PMThe only thing I like more than being proven right is being proven right almost immediately. The latest from Hasbro shows they're done with books. #wotc
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

I seem to remember some other poster claiming you were all wrong about this and that, once proven wrong, you'd quietly ignore the proof and move on to other topics. 

I wonder if that other poster will quietly ignore this and move on to other topics...

I am right here. I suspect he's just lying but I will watch the video first. So far it's just a bunch of bullshit politics that don't relate to this topic but I assume eventually he gets to the topic.

Edit - yes, he just outright lies. Nothing happened at GenCon about books not happening beyond the core. No evidence came out in any way to support his claim. He's just recycling his prior opinion, declaring it fact without any facts to back it up, and then saying anyone who dissents is wrong because it's dissenting with his opinion which is right because he believes it.

Quote from: GhostNinja on August 07, 2024, 09:48:36 PMThere were quite a few people saying this.  So I guess anyone wanting to buy the new books will have to get digital or nothing.

I wasn't planning on getting the new books (or giving shitheads of the coast) another dime anyway but since I am print or nothing that makes it much easier to resist buying the books.

There is zero need for digital. You just buy the books and play. Pundit is intentionally misleading people now. Notice he quotes nothing to support his allegation in the video. Nothing happened at GenCon to support his prediction.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 08, 2024, 12:21:22 AM

Quote from: GhostNinja on August 07, 2024, 09:48:36 PMThere were quite a few people saying this.  So I guess anyone wanting to buy the new books will have to get digital or nothing.

I wasn't planning on getting the new books (or giving shitheads of the coast) another dime anyway but since I am print or nothing that makes it much easier to resist buying the books.

There is zero need for digital. You just buy the books and play. Pundit is intentionally misleading people now. Notice he quotes nothing to support his allegation in the video. Nothing happened at GenCon to support his prediction.

Its been known for a long and I mean LONG while from multiple sources that WotC laid of ALL of its book publishing staff ALL Book Publishing Staff.  You are just being willfully ignorant now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUFUwLM3xRI

Greetings!

Man, Mistwell, you know, it is certainly fair to say that Pundit is often arrogant and self-centered, though much of the time Pundit is right about politics and game topics. In this case, he is not special or unique--in addition to Pundit, Unscripted & Unchained, Professor DM, DIVERSITY & DRAGONS, Tenkar's Tavern, The James Gang, Blacklodge Games, and probably more, perhaps even The Quartering and Clownfish, have talked about WOTC going all in on digital and moving away from traditional book publishing for D&D.

Your animosity and contempt for Pundit has driven you to make yourself out to be an ass here, man. What are you going on about Pundit being a liar and blah, blah, blah? Come on, man. I have been hearing similar analysis and commentary from various other parties and individuals all saying similar things to Pundit on this issue for quite a while now.

Are you really oblivious to all of the commentators and YouTubers that I listed? You drawing a line in the sand here and screaming insults at Pundit really make you look out of touch with the hobby, man.

Just admit you are wrong, apologize for being a dick, and move on from this issue.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

He's just pissed that I saw this before anyone, back when WotC dropped their book distributor. They claimed that a patchwork quilt of small distributors would cover for it, but that was just damage control. They were planning this for a long time, and I saw it.

It's obvious from just looking at the release schedule that WotC is getting out of doing print books.  The only things on the schedule are the core books and an art book.  This contrasts with multiple print books scheduled per year in the past.  There's no need to speculate that WotC won't be doing physical releases any more.  You can just look at thei release schedule and observe this obvious fact.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 08, 2024, 12:19:41 AMAre you not tired of bullshitting people? You know damn well they didn't say or imply they're done with books due to the VTT. So far, the VTT isn't even linked to the rules and is system neutral FFS! But I will listen to your video first. I don't have a beef with you (I like your viewpoint, when you're not in-character) I am just tired of the schtick of your character.

So, on the "nothing is announced" that's NORMAL for WOTC for years now (which is irritating pf course). It's from this stupid policy of "create buzz only about what's about to come out and don't spread the buzz across many books" thing. They have just the three books going three months, and that's about as far as they've been announcing for years now. When they are done coming out, we will get another announcement. And then when that comes out, another announcement. That's how they've operated for years.

Them adding new money to digital is not, in any way, a sign they won't be spending their normal money on books. How is "adding more money" on top of the regular budget saying anything about books? They didn't say all money will be spent on digital - they said they're adding MORE money FOR DIGITAL.

OK I've listened to your video. YOU SHOW ZERO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM.

I'm just saying it. Pundit, you're a liar on this topic. WOTC doesn't say or imply they will not be making books. Them investing additional funds to digital isn't taking away the existing money in books. You're just a bullshitter who is bluffing, and you will weasel away on this claim as soon as the first book comes out after the core books.

It's going to be awesome. You will bullshit some more, saying "OH I said they might do a few nooks" and then after they do more than a few, you will make up some new excuse. And eventually you'll just drop it or find some new reason to bullshit and not admit you lied.

Shame on you man. Everything you say is speculation, and you're just stating it, and then claiming you're going to be right, and from that claiming you are actually right now right because you might turn out to be right even though you have no evidence to back it up right now. Typically bullshitter tactics.

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/vaPCFIY_xl.png)

Quote from: Mistwell on August 08, 2024, 12:19:41 AMAre you not tired of bullshitting people? You know damn well they didn't say or imply they're done with books due to the VTT. So far, the VTT isn't even linked to the rules and is system neutral FFS! But I will listen to your video first. I don't have a beef with you (I like your viewpoint, when you're not in-character) I am just tired of the schtick of your character.

So, on the "nothing is announced" that's NORMAL for WOTC for years now (which is irritating pf course). It's from this stupid policy of "create buzz only about what's about to come out and don't spread the buzz across many books" thing. They have just the three books going three months, and that's about as far as they've been announcing for years now. When they are done coming out, we will get another announcement. And then when that comes out, another announcement. That's how they've operated for years.

Them adding new money to digital is not, in any way, a sign they won't be spending their normal money on books. How is "adding more money" on top of the regular budget saying anything about books? They didn't say all money will be spent on digital - they said they're adding MORE money FOR DIGITAL.

OK I've listened to your video. YOU SHOW ZERO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM.

I'm just saying it. Pundit, you're a liar on this topic. WOTC doesn't say or imply they will not be making books. Them investing additional funds to digital isn't taking away the existing money in books. You're just a bullshitter who is bluffing, and you will weasel away on this claim as soon as the first book comes out after the core books.

It's going to be awesome. You will bullshit some more, saying "OH I said they might do a few nooks" and then after they do more than a few, you will make up some new excuse. And eventually you'll just drop it or find some new reason to bullshit and not admit you lied.

Shame on you man. Everything you say is speculation, and you're just stating it, and then claiming you're going to be right, and from that claiming you are actually right now right because you might turn out to be right even though you have no evidence to back it up right now. Typically bullshitter tactics.

Bruh, it's the come to God moment here.

WotC, the company that sent Pinkertons, tried to torpedo the OGL, cut ties with publishers, fired all the book staff, invested the entire new budget into the VTT, hired nothing but Video game Staff to run the company...

They're not interested in making new books beyond the core.

They view themselves as the "Name Brand", ahead of the curve. The people that define what "Role-playing" even is.

They don't care about the past. They released a book shitting all over the original creators of D&D.

It's done man.

Until proven otherwise, they're not going to be releasing any more physical books outside of the core. The VTT and Video Games are their future.

Monopoly Go and Balsurs Gate 3 were the biggest sources of revune for the company.

I know you don't want to believe it. But they are ditching traditional table top. They've got their evergreen edition now. They have 3 tiers of subscription for the VTT. They're hiring a monetization expert for Virtual D&D.

Pundit was an asshole and petty for naming you specifically in the video, that was a mistake and very low of him.

But all signs and evidence point to no more books being released.

Instead you'll get new material through the VTT and D&D Beyond.

We won't get a dedicated book to say Martials. Instead we'll get a couple of themed subclasses sold in a digital pack for 10 bucks.

You'll get a pack of themed spells for 15 bucks.

Occasionally they'll have a sale and lump these packs together.

And maybe if we're really lucky, after like 5 years they'll lump some these packs together into a special print edition.

This is the future of D$D

Quote from: Orphan81 on August 08, 2024, 12:14:49 PMPundit was an asshole and petty for naming you specifically in the video, that was a mistake and very low of him.

I don't think I was the one being petty. Mistwell came on my thread and claimed I was a liar and a grifter, that I was intentionally manipulating my audience, and that I would be proven wrong and would then lie to cover it up.

So he in essence called me scum.

Me explicitly pointing out that he's the one who is either an idiot or a liar is just a very minimal level of getting restitution.

Migrating play online has been WotC's goal since 1999, it developed concurrently with 3.0. Ryan Dancy was in charge. As is always the case (see Gleemax/4E VTT) it failed.

Now finally after a quarter century they've bought up enough studios to have the technology and people to pull it off. It's the only way the RPG doesn't ultimately get shelved and just milked as an IP. There is not enough of a profit margin on printed books to justify the salaries of the people who make them in late stage capitalism.

So I guess be happy (or not) that you're getting the 3 new core books, and the once a year or so prestige printed product from a licensee. It's either that, or there just won't be a D&D TTRPG in print. And no, Hasbro will never sell the IP. They'd rather squat on it for a decade or two, that's what conglomerates do. 

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 08, 2024, 05:37:55 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on August 08, 2024, 12:14:49 PMPundit was an asshole and petty for naming you specifically in the video, that was a mistake and very low of him.

I don't think I was the one being petty. Mistwell came on my thread and claimed I was a liar and a grifter, that I was intentionally manipulating my audience, and that I would be proven wrong and would then lie to cover it up.

So he in essence called me scum.

Me explicitly pointing out that he's the one who is either an idiot or a liar is just a very minimal level of getting restitution.

I'm just saying, you have the platform, you have the greater reach. He's one regular forum dude. You didn't need to name drop him to make him a subject of ridicule. You could have eluded to him and we would have all known who you were talking about, but naming him specifically in a youtube video is mean spirited considering the greater pull you have... and the fact he's not being an overt asshole, he's just being deluded.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 07:02:39 PMThere is not enough of a profit margin on printed books to justify the salaries of the people who make them in late stage capitalism.

Funny, every other RPG company manages to do so in "late stage capitalism."  I love how you economic illiterates have to squeeze commie/socialist babble into everything.  Hasbro/WotC's decisions have nothing to do with "capitalism" (at a stretch, you could blame corporatism, but it's not necessary), and everything to do with extending the video game revenue stream to RPGs.  That, and the people in charge at WotC are Seattlites... so they probably agree with you on economics... which is why they fail...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2024, 09:31:53 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 07:02:39 PMThere is not enough of a profit margin on printed books to justify the salaries of the people who make them in late stage capitalism.

Funny, every other RPG company manages to do so in "late stage capitalism."  I love how you economic illiterates have to squeeze commie/socialist babble into everything.  Hasbro/WotC's decisions have nothing to do with "capitalism" (at a stretch, you could blame corporatism, but it's not necessary), and everything to do with extending the video game revenue stream to RPGs.  That, and the people in charge at WotC are Seattlites... so they probably agree with you on economics... which is why they fail...

He means the Kultural  Kommissars and diversity hires.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2024, 09:31:53 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 07:02:39 PMThere is not enough of a profit margin on printed books to justify the salaries of the people who make them in late stage capitalism.

Funny, every other RPG company manages to do so in "late stage capitalism."  I love how you economic illiterates have to squeeze commie/socialist babble into everything.  Hasbro/WotC's decisions have nothing to do with "capitalism" (at a stretch, you could blame corporatism, but it's not necessary), and everything to do with extending the video game revenue stream to RPGs.  That, and the people in charge at WotC are Seattlites... so they probably agree with you on economics... which is why they fail...

Wild, I'm from Seattle, & I used to work at WotC. So you are 100% correct. Sorry if you thought you were slinging some arrows there buddy.

You're short sighted ideology doesn't change the brass tacks of publishing. The entire industry (which TTRPG is a microcosm of), is on the path to extinction.

Get woke to reality my friend.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 10:38:37 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2024, 09:31:53 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 07:02:39 PMThere is not enough of a profit margin on printed books to justify the salaries of the people who make them in late stage capitalism.

Funny, every other RPG company manages to do so in "late stage capitalism."  I love how you economic illiterates have to squeeze commie/socialist babble into everything.  Hasbro/WotC's decisions have nothing to do with "capitalism" (at a stretch, you could blame corporatism, but it's not necessary), and everything to do with extending the video game revenue stream to RPGs.  That, and the people in charge at WotC are Seattlites... so they probably agree with you on economics... which is why they fail...

Wild, I'm from Seattle, & I used to work at WotC. So you are 100% correct. Sorry if you thought you were slinging some arrows there buddy.

Your short sighted ideology doesn't change the brass tacks of publishing. The entire industry (which TTRPG is a microcosm of), is on the path to extinction.

Get woke to reality my friend.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 10:38:37 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2024, 09:31:53 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 07:02:39 PMThere is not enough of a profit margin on printed books to justify the salaries of the people who make them in late stage capitalism.

Funny, every other RPG company manages to do so in "late stage capitalism."  I love how you economic illiterates have to squeeze commie/socialist babble into everything.  Hasbro/WotC's decisions have nothing to do with "capitalism" (at a stretch, you could blame corporatism, but it's not necessary), and everything to do with extending the video game revenue stream to RPGs.  That, and the people in charge at WotC are Seattlites... so they probably agree with you on economics... which is why they fail...

Wild, I'm from Seattle, & I used to work at WotC. So you are 100% correct. Sorry if you thought you were slinging some arrows there buddy.

You're short sighted ideology doesn't change the brass tacks of publishing. The entire industry (which TTRPG is a microcosm of), is on the path to extinction.

Get woke to reality my friend.

Well, I'll give you credit.  At least you admit to being part of the problem.  That's... something... I guess.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 08, 2024, 12:19:41 AMThem adding new money to digital is not, in any way, a sign they won't be spending their normal money on books. How is "adding more money" on top of the regular budget saying anything about books? They didn't say all money will be spent on digital - they said they're adding MORE money FOR DIGITAL.

You keep assuming wotc will do sane things. But they have that nagging track record of being ruthlessly stupid and success adverse.

Personally I do not think they will go 100% digital and totally drop physical. Its just too stupid even for a bastion of stupid like wotc. Then again with people like Crawford involved all bets are off. "Modern play is about optimization!" so Fake 5e will push optimization according to Crawford in a vid.

You just can not predict what new stupid wotc will pull next.

They could pull the plug on Beyond and try and force everyone to rebuy. Or use it to erase 5e.

So we will see of they double down on the stupid and go fully digital after the core Fake'e books finish.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2024, 09:31:53 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 07:02:39 PMThere is not enough of a profit margin on printed books to justify the salaries of the people who make them in late stage capitalism.

Funny, every other RPG company manages to do so in "late stage capitalism."  I love how you economic illiterates have to squeeze commie/socialist babble into everything.  Hasbro/WotC's decisions have nothing to do with "capitalism" (at a stretch, you could blame corporatism, but it's not necessary), and everything to do with extending the video game revenue stream to RPGs.  That, and the people in charge at WotC are Seattlites... so they probably agree with you on economics... which is why they fail...

It is a difference of expectations. For a small print publisher, if you're making $40000 a year that might be enough for you. For the increasingly rare mid-range companies, if you make $400000 in a year that could be enough.
But Hasbro works on a whole other scale of what kind of profit they consider to be "worth it". And we in fact know what the goal is for D&D: Cynthia Williams said it, they want D&D to be a $1 Billion dollar concern.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 08, 2024, 10:38:37 PMThe entire industry (which TTRPG is a microcosm of), is on the path to extinction.

Get woke to reality my friend.

Holy shit, you actually believe this! You actually believe the TTRPG industry is going to cease to exist?

*Insert Good Fellas Laughing Gif Here*
*Insert JJJ Laughing Gif with 'You're serious?' here*

If anything, modern technology has meant the TTRPG is not going anywhere and will survive until the death of the earth. Anyone can make a product and put it into a PDF, anyone can run a Kickstarter and get money for an off set Print Run.

Fuck, Print on Demand is there for those who want it.

Are you stupid or just lying?

I was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I'm not lying, and you can't read effectively.

Have a nice day.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I'm not lying, and you can't read effectively.

Have a nice day.

All those comic book Kickstarters, Indiegogos and the like that happen on a weekly basis and go into Print... They're all just going to stop being printed huh?

Oh you mean TRADITIONAL printing is going away... Oh yeah well no shit.

But everyone outside of Wotc and Paizo ditched traditional printing a decade ago. Where the hell have you been?

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 09, 2024, 09:57:19 AMAnd we in fact know what the goal is for D&D: Cynthia Williams said it, they want D&D to be a $1 Billion dollar concern.

I get the impression that wotc never once talked to Hasbro about the logistics of board games. Which are in a very similar position to RPGs. One person buys the game and several people play.

Quote from: Omega on August 09, 2024, 09:36:06 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 09, 2024, 09:57:19 AMAnd we in fact know what the goal is for D&D: Cynthia Williams said it, they want D&D to be a $1 Billion dollar concern.

I get the impression that wotc never once talked to Hasbro...

You could have stopped right there...

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I'm not lying, and you can't read effectively.

Have a nice day.

In one sense you're right: the traditional publishing industry is fucked. They have been for a very long time.

But the rise of pdfs and print on demand mean that now people don't need a big publishing house as the middle-man. People (like me) can make enough of a decent living while not dealing with any big publishers, and some people raise seven-figure kickstarters (though that's not always going to be as big a profit as it sounds).

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening. 

Huh, WotC has found new depths of my disinterest in their products. :) Impressive.

The most I've tolerated e-tools for TTRPGs is Discord. Tried several of the other suites, feels like a part-time job to learn them enough to make them sing. And even still I find, like conference calls and video meetings, that being in person is less exhausting, more enriching. It's a compromise if necessary, not for fun.

No gaming is better than tiresome gaming. I'd rather a pick-up game at the local game shop or local buddies down for some snacks and bullshitting around than scheduling a multi-hour "work" conference call.  But that's just me being old, I guess. ;)

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 10, 2024, 01:39:31 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening. 

Books are tactile. Their scent triggers our memory centers. They don't require power to operate. Their storage medium can last centuries instead of decaying to uselessness in a decade.

Anything written or static visual art that you want to keep in unaltered form for long periods is cheaper in the long run as a physical copy.

Put another way, twenty years after a nuclear or bio-apocalypse all your SSD stored PDFs will be gone (if you even have power to charge the reader), but your books will still be perfectly useable (minus the typical wear and tear of use).

Electronic media depends on way more infrastructure and lacks the sensory queues that normal humans enjoy. That's why it will endure, even if only as a specialty product.

This is what we've been waiting for. With WotC fucking off into videogame land, the OSR can claim its proper place atop the throne of tabletop RPGs. Then, we can REALLY entertain all our woke friends.

(https://media.tenor.com/uNZq_7U0XrcAAAAM/scarface-tony-montana.gif)

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 10, 2024, 01:39:31 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening.

Except it has been happening, slowly, for years now.

Quote from: Opaopajr on August 10, 2024, 02:51:57 AMHuh, WotC has found new depths of my disinterest in their products. :) Impressive.

The most I've tolerated e-tools for TTRPGs is Discord. Tried several of the other suites, feels like a part-time job to learn them enough to make them sing. And even still I find, like conference calls and video meetings, that being in person is less exhausting, more enriching. It's a compromise if necessary, not for fun.

No gaming is better than tiresome gaming. I'd rather a pick-up game at the local game shop or local buddies down for some snacks and bullshitting around than scheduling a multi-hour "work" conference call.  But that's just me being old, I guess. ;)

Greetings!

Yeah, my friend! I totally agree. All of the computer programs, the widgets, fuck all that. It is so alien to how I like to run and play games at the table. WOTC can get fucked with their new VTT D&D.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 10, 2024, 09:35:04 AM

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 10, 2024, 01:39:31 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening. 

Books are tactile. Their scent triggers our memory centers. They don't require power to operate. Their storage medium can last centuries instead of decaying to uselessness in a decade.

Anything written or static visual art that you want to keep in unaltered form for long periods is cheaper in the long run as a physical copy.

Put another way, twenty years after a nuclear or bio-apocalypse all your SSD stored PDFs will be gone (if you even have power to charge the reader), but your books will still be perfectly useable (minus the typical wear and tear of use).

Electronic media depends on way more infrastructure and lacks the sensory queues that normal humans enjoy. That's why it will endure, even if only as a specialty product.

Greetings!

Very true, Chris!

I love the feel of books. The covers, the pages. The artwork, if any. Even just pages of text, can inspire wonder and joy at what lies within the pages. Reading the book is a pleasure and adventure itself. What knowledge, what ideas, what interesting wonders will I discover? The actual experience of holding the book, and leisurely reading a book, soaking up the text, chewing on the story, is a joy all its own.

The book's scent! Yes, indeed. Strangely, that also adds to the sense of joy, of tranquility, and of wonder.

Yes, I love books! I have a rather large personal library, with many bookcases stuffed with books of all kinds, covering many subjects. I normally try to be cautious and prudent with purchasing whatever in life, though strangely, it doesn't bother me much at all to pop 60, 80, $100 or more for an individual book. Besides game books, of course, my collection is primarily based on History books. $80 and more is a common price for many history books.

I agree, though. Technology and electric gadgets will satisfy the common masses, but genuine, physical books will remain with a devoted fan-base and following.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on August 10, 2024, 03:38:43 PM

Quote from: Opaopajr on August 10, 2024, 02:51:57 AMHuh, WotC has found new depths of my disinterest in their products. :) Impressive.

The most I've tolerated e-tools for TTRPGs is Discord. Tried several of the other suites, feels like a part-time job to learn them enough to make them sing. And even still I find, like conference calls and video meetings, that being in person is less exhausting, more enriching. It's a compromise if necessary, not for fun.

No gaming is better than tiresome gaming. I'd rather a pick-up game at the local game shop or local buddies down for some snacks and bullshitting around than scheduling a multi-hour "work" conference call.  But that's just me being old, I guess. ;)

Greetings!

Yeah, my friend! I totally agree. All of the computer programs, the widgets, fuck all that. It is so alien to how I like to run and play games at the table. WOTC can get fucked with their new VTT D&D.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I won't be touching it with the proverbial 10 ft. pole. I'm sure my group will want to continue with D&D, so I'll have a slightly shittier version of the 2014 core books to use at the table. I'm more than happy to run a hex crawl in the Greyhawk that's coming in the DMG.

Having to only deal with the 3 core books at the table is preferable. I won't have to drag along splatbooks, adventures, monster books. 3 Evergreen books, with an explicit recognition that I haven't been the target audience for a very, very long time. Hence, why I can not give 2 rat fucks about the VTT and microtransactions. They aren't for me, I don't want them anyways.

The only people who should really be up in arms about this entire thing is the OCD completionist that have to have every god damn option available. If most of you actually practiced what you preach when it comes to your gaming purchases the small press you love so much would already be more vibrant and expansive.

WotC leaving traditional tabletop is the BEST news for the RPG hobby...and much of the industry.

However, let's be bluntly honest.

Overall, 3PP for 5e were superior to WotC 5e releases. Far more interesting 5e books were being launched on Kickstarter than from Woketard Washington.

I suspect the same happened on DM's Guild.

As I said back during the "OGL Crisis", those publishers who pay their rent selling "current D&D" products will agree to whatever shitty 6e OGL exists to keep paying their rent.

And if the 6e OGL is too super shitty, then we'll see a "6e clone" arrive for the publishers to keep publishing as "compatible with the sixth edition of the world's most popular RPG" 

So WotC getting out of the physical book business just opens the door to 3PP peeps selling their physical books next to the 6e core books in the game stores.


Of course, that's just until WotC's VTT dreams of eternally increasing profits implode with mass firings at Hasbro, probably by mid-2026.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 10, 2024, 09:35:04 AMElectronic media depends on way more infrastructure and lacks the sensory queues that normal humans enjoy. That's why it will endure, even if only as a specialty product.

I don't know anyone that buys a book thinking "This will be best after the bombs fall and society goes to shit."

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 10, 2024, 02:07:49 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 10, 2024, 01:39:31 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening.

Except it has been happening, slowly, for years now.

I have been hearing people predict the imminent death of print for over 30 years.  Print sales are still a large majority of the overall book market after all this time.  Print books are going anywhere any time soon.

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 11, 2024, 01:46:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 10, 2024, 02:07:49 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 10, 2024, 01:39:31 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening.

Except it has been happening, slowly, for years now.

I have been hearing people predict the imminent death of print for over 30 years.  Print sales are still a large majority of the overall book market after all this time.  Print books are going anywhere any time soon.

I think we might be talking at cross-purposes here. I definitely agree that print books are still going to be big, what I'm saying is that the traditional big-house publishers who used to hold a total monopoly on what books you could buy have been slowly dying for decades, and since PoD, kickstarter, social media and other tools allow for someone to write a book and sell it without that voracious middleman, this truth combined with hard left/woke turn of most traditional publishing houses means they're sinking into irrelevance.

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 10, 2024, 01:39:31 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening. 

Some magazines have faded out. But not as many as predicted would. And a few came close like National Geographic, who were busy augering their cable channel into the dirt and trying to rebrand themselves as "Nat Geo"...
 
Sometimes it feels like alot of companies are hellbent on self destructing.

I stare at a computer screen at work all the time. When I get to game, it is in person, with books and papers. Gaming is an escape from the screen that I won't be giving up. WOTC seems very proud of the technological terror they have constructed, but its power is insignificant compared to the power of human connection.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 11, 2024, 05:09:49 AM

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 11, 2024, 01:46:18 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 10, 2024, 02:07:49 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on August 10, 2024, 01:39:31 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 09, 2024, 02:09:05 PMI was speaking of the print industry, which TTRPGs are a microcosm of.

I have been hearing that the print industry has been about to go extinct since the first e-reader devices came out back in the 90s.  It keeps not happening.

Except it has been happening, slowly, for years now.

I have been hearing people predict the imminent death of print for over 30 years.  Print sales are still a large majority of the overall book market after all this time.  Print books are going anywhere any time soon.

I think we might be talking at cross-purposes here. I definitely agree that print books are still going to be big, what I'm saying is that the traditional big-house publishers who used to hold a total monopoly on what books you could buy have been slowly dying for decades, and since PoD, kickstarter, social media and other tools allow for someone to write a book and sell it without that voracious middleman, this truth combined with hard left/woke turn of most traditional publishing houses means they're sinking into irrelevance.

This is correct, recently there was a thread about why straight men don't read novels, started by someone in one of the publishing houses.

They got swamped with basically this:

"We do read novels, you don't publish what we like so we buy from independent authors."

Or the equivalent from said independent authors.

Newspapers are dying, including specialized media, there's still a market, but they abandoned it.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 11, 2024, 05:09:49 AMI think we might be talking at cross-purposes here. I definitely agree that print books are still going to be big, what I'm saying is that the traditional big-house publishers who used to hold a total monopoly on what books you could buy have been slowly dying for decades, and since PoD, kickstarter, social media and other tools allow for someone to write a book and sell it without that voracious middleman, this truth combined with hard left/woke turn of most traditional publishing houses means they're sinking into irrelevance.

I am talking about all of the predictions that print media will soon become extinct and be replaced by digital media that I have been seeing since the first html based ereader devices came out in the early 90s.  People have been saying this with great confidence for decades but there's no sign that it will actually happen any time soon.  Even by 2023, user penetration for ebooks had only reached about 1 in 8.  The book market has been much more resistant to the idea of going to digital books than a lot of people predicted even for periodicals where digital versions arguably make the most sense.

It's true that technology has made it much easier for independent authors to reach their audience directly.  I also think that there are large market segments that are simply not being served by the big publishers.  I think that's a whole different conversation than predictions of the imminent death of print.     

More evidence Pundit is lying for clicks.

Comicbook.com has an interview (https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-jess-lanzillo-interview-2025-plans-core-rulebooks-crossover/) with the new D&D Vice President Jess Lanzillo. 

They asked Lanzillo about the recurring fears of digitalization within Dungeons & Dragons and whether there was any mandated shift to digital.

"I think it's unfortunate that this dichotomy has been set up," Lanzillo said. "It's artificial in so many ways. How did most of us play D&D during the lockdown? Was it necessarily everyone's preferred way of playing it? Hard to say. Some people found that they've continued playing digitally. They're playing on Maps on D&D Beyond and on Discord and on voice calls. Many of us play in person, a more tactile experience. I was probably one of the last migrators to the D&D Beyond character sheet, because I am an artist, so I just draw all of my stuff, and I want to do it in this very bespoke fashion."

"I'm a big fan of being able to provide play experiences to people any way they want to play them," Lanzillo continued. "I actually look at it as a form of gatekeeping to be like, "Your version of playing is stupid, and my version of playing is good."

"I just think it's all part of the same ecosystem, and putting things up against each other and trying to villainize one thing over the other...it's just about giving people the experiences for wherever they're at in their life and whoever the people are around them," Lanzillo said.

In regards to the physical releases, Lanzillo mentioned that there were no plans to move away from physical during a Q&A session earlier in the day. There's a quote that didn't make the final interview where she pushes back on the idea of digital pivots in general and talks about how she wants to "give people the experiences for wherever they're at in their life and whoever the people are around them."

Does that sound like they're ditching books? No. No it does not. They are supporting both, just like the said before. They are dumping more new funds into digital. This isn't coming out of the book budget. They didn't fire everyone involved with books. They fired 3 of about 18 people involved with books. Not to mention people who work on digital publications often ARE THE SAME PEOPLE working on physical publications. This whole conspiracy theory is built on nothing but fear and speculation and false rumors.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 12, 2024, 03:07:11 PM"I think it's unfortunate that this dichotomy has been set up," Lanzillo said. "It's artificial in so many ways. How did most of us play D&D during the lockdown? Was it necessarily everyone's preferred way of playing it? Hard to say. Some people found that they've continued playing digitally. They're playing on Maps on D&D Beyond and on Discord and on voice calls. Many of us play in person, a more tactile experience. I was probably one of the last migrators to the D&D Beyond character sheet, because I am an artist, so I just draw all of my stuff, and I want to do it in this very bespoke fashion."

"I'm a big fan of being able to provide play experiences to people any way they want to play them," Lanzillo continued. "I actually look at it as a form of gatekeeping to be like, "Your version of playing is stupid, and my version of playing is good."

"I just think it's all part of the same ecosystem, and putting things up against each other and trying to villainize one thing over the other...it's just about giving people the experiences for wherever they're at in their life and whoever the people are around them," Lanzillo said.

Uhhh, this corporate blather doesn't say or prove anything about WotC's plans for hardcopy books.  It doesn't state anything about what products are planned in the future, nor does it state how those products will be published.  Why even quote this?

Quote from: Mistwell on August 12, 2024, 03:07:11 PMIn regards to the physical releases, Lanzillo mentioned that there were no plans to move away from physical during a Q&A session earlier in the day.

Wait, you quoted all of the generic bullshit that this person said, but didn't directly quote where they said WotC will continue to publish all of their products in hardcopy?  Seem like that is the one quote that would actually support your assertion!  But you paraphrase that?  Why?  Seems like you are trying to gloss over something.  Otherwise you'd just quote, "We will be releasing everything in hardcopy and digitally."  But they didn't say that, did they?  I bet there was some corporate weaselry in that statement, too...

Edit: I can't find anything about that paraphrased "statement" in the article at all.  Did you make it up?

Mistwell, why are you digging this hole for yourself?

The art director isn't the person to try and divine business decisions from.

If she does know, and publicy revealed internal business plans, she'd be fired. I hope you realize that all WotC employees who attend conventions are given media training and printed talking points to adhere to, from the Marketing department.

It has been the intent of the D&D brand team to migrate play to an online VTT since before the launch of 3rd edition. Just because it failed in 2000, & in 2008 doesn't mean this ever stopped being the goal.

The last two presidents of WotC have been hired specifically because of expertise in micro transactions.


I imagine you will continue to ignore the abundant evidence that WotC is in fact all in on the VTT.

Oh, and why did you leave this part out?

QuoteThe possibility of modular optional rulesets also keeps the umbrella of D&D open to more kinds of players. "If you're a person that wants to run some OSR-style, total party kill dungeons, and then all of a sudden, I'm going to make you read 20 pages about courtship or whatever, maybe you're uncomfortable with that in your game," Lanzillo said. "That isn't a thing that necessarily we want to bake into the actual core of what D&D is. But say we did want to make something that was more romantasy-oriented, and we wanted to create that stuff around it. Now, we know that's not going to be a hundred percent of the D&D audience and it might be a totally new audience in some ways. So, how do we create that bridge back to the core rulebooks but just note that the combat might be pretty light or something." Lanzillo said that the idea of using Dungeons & Dragons as an adaptive framework was an "exciting challenge" that she looked forward to the team tackling over the next few years.

Sounds a lot like little "optional" rules packets or something.  Seems really expensive to publish a bunch of little packets of rules in hardcopy.  Almost like they'll be easier to produce electronically...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 12, 2024, 06:57:54 PMOh, and why did you leave this part out?

QuoteThe possibility of modular optional rulesets also keeps the umbrella of D&D open to more kinds of players. "If you're a person that wants to run some OSR-style, total party kill dungeons, and then all of a sudden, I'm going to make you read 20 pages about courtship or whatever, maybe you're uncomfortable with that in your game," Lanzillo said. "That isn't a thing that necessarily we want to bake into the actual core of what D&D is. But say we did want to make something that was more romantasy-oriented, and we wanted to create that stuff around it. Now, we know that's not going to be a hundred percent of the D&D audience and it might be a totally new audience in some ways. So, how do we create that bridge back to the core rulebooks but just note that the combat might be pretty light or something." Lanzillo said that the idea of using Dungeons & Dragons as an adaptive framework was an "exciting challenge" that she looked forward to the team tackling over the next few years.

Sounds a lot like little "optional" rules packets or something.  Seems really expensive to publish a bunch of little packets of rules in hardcopy.  Almost like they'll be easier to produce electronically...

Alternatively, its something really easy to mark up... 24-32 page stapled booklet with rules and a short adventure with a cardstock cover like an old TSR module, but PoD. Sell it for $9.99 or even $12.99. Order right off their website.

Not saying they will or won't, just that short limited appeal booklets seems like a great excuse to really mark up the price since the ones who want it REALLY want it (and offering free still wouldn't be enough for others to pick it up). PoD just limits your overhead.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 12, 2024, 08:38:21 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 12, 2024, 06:57:54 PMOh, and why did you leave this part out?

QuoteThe possibility of modular optional rulesets also keeps the umbrella of D&D open to more kinds of players. "If you're a person that wants to run some OSR-style, total party kill dungeons, and then all of a sudden, I'm going to make you read 20 pages about courtship or whatever, maybe you're uncomfortable with that in your game," Lanzillo said. "That isn't a thing that necessarily we want to bake into the actual core of what D&D is. But say we did want to make something that was more romantasy-oriented, and we wanted to create that stuff around it. Now, we know that's not going to be a hundred percent of the D&D audience and it might be a totally new audience in some ways. So, how do we create that bridge back to the core rulebooks but just note that the combat might be pretty light or something." Lanzillo said that the idea of using Dungeons & Dragons as an adaptive framework was an "exciting challenge" that she looked forward to the team tackling over the next few years.

Sounds a lot like little "optional" rules packets or something.  Seems really expensive to publish a bunch of little packets of rules in hardcopy.  Almost like they'll be easier to produce electronically...

Alternatively, its something really easy to mark up... 24-32 page stapled booklet with rules and a short adventure with a cardstock cover like an old TSR module, but PoD. Sell it for $9.99 or even $12.99. Order right off their website.

Not saying they will or won't, just that short limited appeal booklets seems like a great excuse to really mark up the price since the ones who want it REALLY want it (and offering free still wouldn't be enough for others to pick it up). PoD just limits your overhead.

No way they would print small stapled product. I guarantee they wouldn't even consider the idea. Outside of prestige print products, or a Xanathar analog 3-4 years from now, all the new player facing options will be DDB exclusive.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 12, 2024, 03:07:11 PMMore evidence Pundit is lying for clicks.

Comicbook.com has an interview (https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-jess-lanzillo-interview-2025-plans-core-rulebooks-crossover/) with the new D&D Vice President Jess Lanzillo. 

They asked Lanzillo about the recurring fears of digitalization within Dungeons & Dragons and whether there was any mandated shift to digital.

"I think it's unfortunate that this dichotomy has been set up," Lanzillo said. "It's artificial in so many ways. How did most of us play D&D during the lockdown? Was it necessarily everyone's preferred way of playing it? Hard to say. Some people found that they've continued playing digitally. They're playing on Maps on D&D Beyond and on Discord and on voice calls. Many of us play in person, a more tactile experience. I was probably one of the last migrators to the D&D Beyond character sheet, because I am an artist, so I just draw all of my stuff, and I want to do it in this very bespoke fashion."

"I'm a big fan of being able to provide play experiences to people any way they want to play them," Lanzillo continued. "I actually look at it as a form of gatekeeping to be like, "Your version of playing is stupid, and my version of playing is good."

"I just think it's all part of the same ecosystem, and putting things up against each other and trying to villainize one thing over the other...it's just about giving people the experiences for wherever they're at in their life and whoever the people are around them," Lanzillo said.

In regards to the physical releases, Lanzillo mentioned that there were no plans to move away from physical during a Q&A session earlier in the day. There's a quote that didn't make the final interview where she pushes back on the idea of digital pivots in general and talks about how she wants to "give people the experiences for wherever they're at in their life and whoever the people are around them."

Does that sound like they're ditching books? No. No it does not. They are supporting both, just like the said before. They are dumping more new funds into digital. This isn't coming out of the book budget. They didn't fire everyone involved with books. They fired 3 of about 18 people involved with books. Not to mention people who work on digital publications often ARE THE SAME PEOPLE working on physical publications. This whole conspiracy theory is built on nothing but fear and speculation and false rumors.

I remember when the very first rumors of their being a 4th edition coming out, and WotC was asked about it, and the answer was very cleverly crafted to sound like there wasn't any 4e forthcoming when in fact there was. At the time, I was fooled by that.

If Lanzillo was trying to answer honestly she could have just said "no, we're not going all-digital, and here is a small example of the future books we're putting out". Note that this didn't happen.

To add to the mistrust of corporate boilerplate press releases, WotC already released CCG booster packs for collectible effects to play during your RPG during 4e. And WotC also released randomized boxes for collectible pre-painted miniatures for 5e.

Past performance suggests future behavior. WotC has a history. I'm going to believe its history before its boilerplate press releases. Words < Actions. Following corporate curricula vitae and industry band-wagonning it is far from unreasonable to connect the dots and expect this sort of direction.

Further, WotC has already way over-drafted the benefit of the doubt with me and many others. Some may want to play with Lucy & the Football as Charlie Brown -- the triumph of hope over experience -- but I have no interest in playing that game anymore. So I feel vindicated reserving my right to heavy cynicism and disinterest. :)

Quote from: M2A0 on August 12, 2024, 06:54:27 PMJust because it failed in 2000, & in 2008 doesn't mean this ever stopped being the goal.

And 2013 with the Neverwinter MMO.

Quote from: Opaopajr on August 13, 2024, 04:03:56 AMWotC already released CCG booster packs for collectible effects to play during your RPG during 4e. And WotC also released randomized boxes for collectible pre-painted miniatures for 5e.

The first was Gamma World using 4e. It actually was a better RPG than core 4e. But as a GW product it was a train wreck.

The second is like the WizKids D&D minis. WizKids likes their random buy too.

If WotC can sneak in some random buy packs for the VTT they will.

But I suspect they will instead go the forced rarity route where it will be every month some sort of "Buy it NOW before it is GONE foreverrrrr!" sort of predating on players.

Quote from: Opaopajr on August 13, 2024, 04:03:56 AMTo add to the mistrust of corporate boilerplate press releases, WotC already released CCG booster packs for collectible effects to play during your RPG during 4e. And WotC also released randomized boxes for collectible pre-painted miniatures for 5e.

Past performance suggests future behavior. WotC has a history. I'm going to believe its history before its boilerplate press releases. Words < Actions. Following corporate curricula vitae and industry band-wagonning it is far from unreasonable to connect the dots and expect this sort of direction.

Further, WotC has already way over-drafted the benefit of the doubt with me and many others. Some may want to play with Lucy & the Football as Charlie Brown -- the triumph of hope over experience -- but I have no interest in playing that game anymore. So I feel vindicated reserving my right to heavy cynicism and disinterest. :)

Greetings!

"Heavy cynicism and disinterest." *LAUGHING* Ahh, yeah, my friend! Exactly!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Omega on August 13, 2024, 04:30:11 AMBut I suspect they will instead go the forced rarity route where it will be every month some sort of "Buy it NOW before it is GONE foreverrrrr!" sort of predating on players.

Sadly, FOMO (fear of missing out) is a powerful marketing/predatory tool.  I have no doubt that they are considering it.

Quote from: zircher on August 13, 2024, 01:08:54 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 13, 2024, 04:30:11 AMBut I suspect they will instead go the forced rarity route where it will be every month some sort of "Buy it NOW before it is GONE foreverrrrr!" sort of predating on players.

Sadly, FOMO (fear of missing out) is a powerful marketing/predatory tool.  I have no doubt that they are considering it.

Collectible characters, where your race, class, powers, and magic items would be luck of the draw has been on the table since at least 2011 if not earlier. Back then it would have been similar to the 4E Gamma World boosters. Now it will just be digital.

Quote from: zircher on August 13, 2024, 01:08:54 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 13, 2024, 04:30:11 AMBut I suspect they will instead go the forced rarity route where it will be every month some sort of "Buy it NOW before it is GONE foreverrrrr!" sort of predating on players.

Sadly, FOMO (fear of missing out) is a powerful marketing/predatory tool.  I have no doubt that they are considering it.

Not just considering. The NWO MMO makes use of it as does the Idle "RPG".

And they are already implimenting it with 6e. Buy the BIG pre-order and get a special digital dragon mini! Dont miss out!!!

Every month will be some new "Get it before its GONE!" bait.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 13, 2024, 01:47:57 PM

Quote from: zircher on August 13, 2024, 01:08:54 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 13, 2024, 04:30:11 AMBut I suspect they will instead go the forced rarity route where it will be every month some sort of "Buy it NOW before it is GONE foreverrrrr!" sort of predating on players.

Sadly, FOMO (fear of missing out) is a powerful marketing/predatory tool.  I have no doubt that they are considering it.

Collectible characters, where your race, class, powers, and magic items would be luck of the draw has been on the table since at least 2011 if not earlier. Back then it would have been similar to the 4E Gamma World boosters. Now it will just be digital.

The GW CCG part was actually not even a game. It was just random packs of new mutations and artifacts you could add to your deck and maybe gain every morning when everything randomized. Train wreck is an understatement.

Yeah, this more or less confirms that Pundit has been a shitheel for long enough that literally ALL of his reliable inside sources have either given up on talking to him or are just actively feeding him bad information, what a long fall it has been. Literally everyone in our space knows it's an open secret that they're pushing the VTT heavily as their main product but they're still going to be making physical books, it's just going to be second priority and they won't be killing nearly as many trees as before since the demand for physical books has fallen off a cliff in the last decade.

At least you can keep making money pretending to care about conservatism to the retards you've duped so far.

Quote from: DefNotAnInsiderNopeNoWay on August 15, 2024, 01:25:24 PMYeah, this more or less confirms that Pundit has been a shitheel for long enough that literally ALL of his reliable inside sources have either given up on talking to him or are just actively feeding him bad information, what a long fall it has been. Literally everyone in our space knows it's an open secret that they're pushing the VTT heavily as their main product but they're still going to be making physical books, it's just going to be second priority and they won't be killing nearly as many trees as before since the demand for physical books has fallen off a cliff in the last decade.

At least you can keep making money pretending to care about conservatism to the retards you've duped so far.

So WotC ending it's decades long distribution deal with Random House is just a nothingburger?

Outside of the 3 core books, D&D print products never bring in enough of a profit margin to really justify them. It's been this way since, well forever, but in particular since 1983 or 1994. (Pick your inflection point, the 1983 book sales crash, or TSR's reaction to MTG a decade later).

Splats, after the first year or two don't sell well, campaign settings divide the audience, box sets cost way too much to manufacture. Hell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

We have 50 years of sales numbers that prove this.

Quote from: DefNotAnInsiderNopeNoWay on August 15, 2024, 01:25:24 PMYeah, this more or less confirms that Pundit has been a shitheel for long enough that literally ALL of his reliable inside sources have either given up on talking to him or are just actively feeding him bad information, what a long fall it has been. Literally everyone in our space knows it's an open secret that they're pushing the VTT heavily as their main product but they're still going to be making physical books, it's just going to be second priority and they won't be killing nearly as many trees as before since the demand for physical books has fallen off a cliff in the last decade.

At least you can keep making money pretending to care about conservatism to the retards you've duped so far.

Hilarious that whatever sockpuppet account this is of some loser who got himself banned here previously is trying to make these claims, without saying who they are.
Everyone knows why insiders would talk to me, dude. Just like everyone knows why you're shitposting on theRPGsite in rage at me and lying about everything else.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

It wasn't. 4E was hot garbage from the get go. Essentials was an attempt to fix it. But the writing was on the wall before they even hit retail.

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

  By that time, 4E had acquired a reputation, and the fact that the second half corresponds with a lot of the distribution channels collapsing probably contributed. I acquired a lot of my late 4E material from dying Borders stores. :)

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 16, 2024, 08:01:56 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

  By that time, 4E had acquired a reputation, and the fact that the second half corresponds with a lot of the distribution channels collapsing probably contributed. I acquired a lot of my late 4E material from dying Borders stores. :)

Are/were you industry?

The Distribution collapse of that era is not wide known or understood.

I was suprised to read this. Outside of old work friends, I get blank stares when I babble about TTRPG realpolitik.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 16, 2024, 10:01:57 PM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 16, 2024, 08:01:56 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on August 15, 2024, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 15, 2024, 08:25:00 PMHell, the second half of 4E had hardcover releases sell less than 10,000 copies in all channels.

Huh, that's almost bad enough to make me think that maybe the content wasn't very good.

  By that time, 4E had acquired a reputation, and the fact that the second half corresponds with a lot of the distribution channels collapsing probably contributed. I acquired a lot of my late 4E material from dying Borders stores. :)

Are/were you industry?

The Distribution collapse of that era is not wide known or understood.

I was suprised to read this. Outside of old work friends, I get blank stares when I babble about TTRPG realpolitik.

   No (2 Dragon articles and an appendix to a WotC hardcover novel to my credit :) ). But I was aware of the bookstore collapse and suspected it had something to do with later 4E's problems, especially since Essentials was meant for more casual markets like bookstores and was released just in time for that collapse.

If any of the recent WotC statements go through, at the very least they are going to heavily push the VTT, tentatively called Sigil, hard. And as an IP platform rather than a D&D platform. Hence why it reads like a poor mans Tabeltop Simulator with better graphics.

Sweet Jesus, I'll soon be done having to run WotC D&D. With a mere 5 minutes explanation I was able to easily show my main player just using the wolf (beast) and command spell from the new PHB that the entire game is now designed as VTT compatible first, and as a TTRPG second.

He's out, I'm hyped. What should I run in a couple months after I wrap up the current 5E Dragonlance campaign?

We've already discussed Savage Rifts, Classic Deadlands, Superheroes (V&V or SW). I haven't brought it up yet, but I'm hankering for some 1E AD&D 3 core books only, No UA. I've always been a sucker for Gygaxian naturalism and hex crawling.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 21, 2024, 11:56:23 PMI haven't brought it up yet, but I'm hankering for some 1E AD&D 3 core books only, No UA.

For the last few years, whenever I have wanted to run something with the spirit of D&D but not the rules (which, in any edition, have never been my favorite), I pull out Shadow of the Demon Lord.

Quote from: HappyDaze on August 22, 2024, 12:47:35 AM

Quote from: M2A0 on August 21, 2024, 11:56:23 PMI haven't brought it up yet, but I'm hankering for some 1E AD&D 3 core books only, No UA.

For the last few years, whenever I have wanted to run something with the spirit of D&D but not the rules (which, in any edition, have never been my favorite), I pull out Shadow of the Demon Lord.

I prefer T&T (Tunnels & Trolls). It is definitely not D&D but still oldschool as hell. I do know that a lot of players gave (then) and give (now) it a sniff of disapproval. Calling it a cheap knockoff and other things through the years.

But you know what: They don't know the game at all. Sorry, but the game which introduced spell point magic, damage reduction through armor, attribute damage in general and in particular exhaustion damage, regeneration rules, weapon categories with rules, each weapon could also have own rules for usage too, armor parts for the do-your-own-armor, attribute modfifier for non human characters (No, OD&D didn't have this), attribute increase after level up, the luck attribute and inspired the creation of RuneQuest, should get more attention. RuneQuests dedication to Gygax and Arneson is often citated, but the dedication also included Ken St Andre.

The blog Save Versus All Wands presented in 2017 a 14 (!) part comparision of 1st Edition T&T with Original D&D. Well spend time.

Well, I hope you guys check out my games, if you want something easily identifiable to D&D players but nothing like what WotC does today.

From the latest interviews about what WOTC has planned for Sigil, it looks like a microtransaction hellscape and that all of the unbalanced power creep stuff in the 2024 edition was by design. The groundwork for a pay for power ups cash grab as it were. There were also hints that they want Sigil to eventually be a place where they can mix in other IP's with D&D. Based on how overtly dismissive of dungeon masters this all sounds my bet is that they are going to try and roll out AI game masters. This whole thing looks like such a mess, I shall enjoy watching from afar with a big bowl of popcorn.

With luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 22, 2024, 09:51:18 AMWell, I hope you guys check out my games, if you want something easily identifiable to D&D players but nothing like what WotC does today.

I don't think my group would ever be down for OSR, B/X stuff. They all came into the hobby during 2E or later. I'm the only one old enough to have been playing with BECMI/1E when it was on the local retailers shelves.

Personally I've been tempted to get your Gonzo stuff, it looks fun. I'd never run it, just read it. So, unfortunately the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 11:19:26 AMWith luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.

If it does, that will be the writing on the wall to just milk the IP and give up on making new D&D product.

For the record, the nail in the coffin for my primary player was that every successful attack from the standard 5E2024 CR 1/4 wolf automatically knocks small and medium characters prone, no save.

Command now only has 5 possible options: Approach, Drop, Flee, Grovel, Halt. Wouldn't want to make it too hard for the poor VTT to adjudicate a TTRPG.

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 11:19:26 AMWith luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.

Well, this time hopefully without the murder/suicide...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2024, 07:30:57 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 11:19:26 AMWith luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.

Well, this time hopefully without the murder/suicide...

The what? Not familiar with that story...

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 07:40:55 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2024, 07:30:57 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 11:19:26 AMWith luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.

Well, this time hopefully without the murder/suicide...

The what? Not familiar with that story...

So this guy from work murdered his wife & committed suicide.

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 07:40:55 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2024, 07:30:57 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 11:19:26 AMWith luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.

Well, this time hopefully without the murder/suicide...

The what? Not familiar with that story...

There was supposed to be a proto-DNDBeyond that went with 4e, but it didn't get released (at least in its intended form).  One of the lead coders (search Joseph Batten) on the project killed himself and his wife and wiped all of the code something like a month before 4e's launch.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2024, 09:00:52 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 07:40:55 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 22, 2024, 07:30:57 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 22, 2024, 11:19:26 AMWith luck it'll go the same way as 4e's Digital Initiative.

Well, this time hopefully without the murder/suicide...

The what? Not familiar with that story...

and wiped all of the code something like a month before 4e's launch.

That last part is simply not true.


The day prior to the crime, the cancellation of the Gleemax website had been announced.


The 4E character builder existed for the entire length of the edition and for many years after.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 22, 2024, 09:07:07 PMThat last part is simply not true.


The day prior to the crime, the cancellation of the Gleemax website had been announced.


The 4E character builder existed for the entire length of the edition and for many years after.

Ehhh, I've seen the opposite asserted.  Either way, D&D Insider was not everything WotC wanted or promised.  There's so much obfuscation as to what happened with Gleemax and D&D Insider that I'm not sure anyone will ever know.  But it is pretty clear (regardless of the specific timing of announcements) that Batten's issues (even before the final incident) contributed to the failure of Gleemax as a project (and some of the planned integration for the VTT) and that the tools for 4e were not ready at launch.

Yes, this is actually WotC's THIRD attempt at a VTT. They've never had the skill to do it in-house. Maybe this time they do, with a whole bunch of microsoft people and other online-gaming people hired on, but I'd still give it at best a 50/50 shot of not being rejected as trash.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 23, 2024, 10:52:55 AMYes, this is actually WotC's THIRD attempt at a VTT. They've never had the skill to do it in-house. Maybe this time they do, with a whole bunch of microsoft people and other online-gaming people hired on, but I'd still give it at best a 50/50 shot of not being rejected as trash.

Everyone forgets Ryan Dancy being in charge of the 3.0 VTT vaporware.

Quote from: M2A0 on August 23, 2024, 01:53:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 23, 2024, 10:52:55 AMYes, this is actually WotC's THIRD attempt at a VTT. They've never had the skill to do it in-house. Maybe this time they do, with a whole bunch of microsoft people and other online-gaming people hired on, but I'd still give it at best a 50/50 shot of not being rejected as trash.

Everyone forgets Ryan Dancy being in charge of the 3.0 VTT vaporware.

  Very few people in the industry seem to have Dancey's track record of being able to go from failure to failure without breaking stride. :)

IDK.  My players were messaging me at work about how D&D Beyond was ditching 2014 spell support soon.  Some of them lean heavy on D&D Beyond for our tabletop game.  For context, I've been running a Saltmarsh campaign set in Greyhawk using 5e for coming up on 3 years now.

That said, we all enjoy playing 5e, but nobody's been buying the latest and "greatest" crap WOTC is shelling out of late.  I don't plan on shitcanning a campaign over WOTC's shenanigans, but we HAVE done some side sessions of ICONS and Lion & Dragon.  They've all enjoyed both and hope to continue with those.

As for Pundit, I'm a fan of his games, and the handful of interactions I've had with him online have been nothing but cordial.  I don't believe he's the type to deliberately lie, and while anyone can be mistaken, I think he's spot on with what WOTC has intended for D&D 2024.

Quote from: Brigman on August 24, 2024, 12:25:30 AMIDK.  My players were messaging me at work about how D&D Beyond was ditching 2014 spell support soon.  Some of them lean heavy on D&D Beyond for our tabletop game.  For context, I've been running a Saltmarsh campaign set in Greyhawk using 5e for coming up on 3 years now.

That said, we all enjoy playing 5e, but nobody's been buying the latest and "greatest" crap WOTC is shelling out of late.  I don't plan on shitcanning a campaign over WOTC's shenanigans, but we HAVE done some side sessions of ICONS and Lion & Dragon.  They've all enjoyed both and hope to continue with those.

As for Pundit, I'm a fan of his games, and the handful of interactions I've had with him online have been nothing but cordial.  I don't believe he's the type to deliberately lie, and while anyone can be mistaken, I think he's spot on with what WOTC has intended for D&D 2024.

Well they ARE!

Yeah, that seems to be confirmed.  STUPID move on their part.  In trying to "force" people to use the 2024 rules, they will drive people away, moreso than they already were...

Quote from: Brigman on August 25, 2024, 12:18:29 PMYeah, that seems to be confirmed.  STUPID move on their part.  In trying to "force" people to use the 2024 rules, they will drive people away, moreso than they already were...

Especially since they have been trying so hard to convice everyone that the rule sets are totally compatible. "Hey all you folks currently in the midst of a 2014 5E campaign, fuck you!"  This ought to be fun to watch.

Well as with 4e. wotc's stupid may well end up being someone elses windfall.

We all knew they were going to do this.

I just never expected them to pull it befor the horse is even fully out the gate.

They just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

LOL. Their great ambitions keep getting thwarted by not understanding what their own fans want.

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Which tells us two things:

They got massive backlash from their own paypigs.

Not many of those paypigs are thinking of switching to 6e.

They really can't win when they do stupid shit like this.  They either stick to their guns and lose folks to the backlash, or backpedal and get mocked for showing their belly. 

I had and have no plans to adopt or buy in to 2024's rules.  But some of my young(er) players lean on D&D Beyond for their character sheets in my 5e game, so this will make them happy.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2024, 12:28:25 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Which tells us two things:

They got massive backlash from their own paypigs.

Not many of those paypigs are thinking of switching to 6e.

I think it might be slightly more accurate to say "Not many of those paypigs are thinking of changing their rules to 6e in the middle of a campaign... they'll wait until the current one is over and decide then."

That's literally the case for the 5e campaign I'm currently playing in... the GM has said "we're not changing rules mid-campaign. We'll look at it for the next campaign (which means 2026 at the earliest)."

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 26, 2024, 02:14:58 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2024, 12:28:25 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Which tells us two things:

They got massive backlash from their own paypigs.

Not many of those paypigs are thinking of switching to 6e.

I think it might be slightly more accurate to say "Not many of those paypigs are thinking of changing their rules to 6e in the middle of a campaign... they'll wait until the current one is over and decide then."

That's literally the case for the 5e campaign I'm currently playing in... the GM has said "we're not changing rules mid-campaign. We'll look at it for the next campaign (which means 2026 at the earliest)."

A game so "simple" you NEED automated character sheets to play it.

Think I'll stick to AD&D/Basic (or retroclones/games that use those rules) thanks.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2024, 02:19:31 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 26, 2024, 02:14:58 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2024, 12:28:25 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Which tells us two things:

They got massive backlash from their own paypigs.

Not many of those paypigs are thinking of switching to 6e.

I think it might be slightly more accurate to say "Not many of those paypigs are thinking of changing their rules to 6e in the middle of a campaign... they'll wait until the current one is over and decide then."

That's literally the case for the 5e campaign I'm currently playing in... the GM has said "we're not changing rules mid-campaign. We'll look at it for the next campaign (which means 2026 at the earliest)."

A game so "simple" you NEED automated character sheets to play it.

Think I'll stick to AD&D/Basic (or retroclones/games that use those rules) thanks.

Yeah after the headach that was 4E I swore off running anything that required software to prep or play.

So that's it. We got 50 years of Dungeons & Dragons books. End of an era, right?

(https://landofnod.blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/oldschoolbooks.png?w=676)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjjDvZHuqmtuNOV_1vBSI96XFD8HPJNe5rEFo24mb4UvH9TYbahfS7xE1YZ2N120S3FLgOilysiLPMa_z3YqILbI8mPc2WiDNUEap57Mp2PodAi3Gz0Mgls_g1k9WK9KlwrGXmHHZ2qlmS4L2WVqXWpXWh91aFx-SIs-5YgU0_YQOcL74RAKhIek28O=w254-h400)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/D%26d_original.jpg)

(https://retrorpg.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/basic2rule.jpg?w=584)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cf/D%26D_1981_Expert_Set_cover.jpg/250px-D%26D_1981_Expert_Set_cover.jpg)

(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiea00WSTuNfDMKy_QFxaYHGZJJ5H-jIg1rNinCawCFLNDTsjHq5NuOZjuVf64yVwvHFEXZ_mIPhoasziDWitlCmqYbAqKqwMYkATiqjijIqKy8BD11W9vQSocznNRNMM1jvlq0gNO3ue848G3XuIa1tmGrwU2tsy6QpzCH_TXIpEL5_jXvcfp5zFm3Lw/s335/companion.jpg)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/TSR1021_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_-_Set_4_Master_Rules.jpg)

(https://th.bing.com/th?q=Dungeons%20And%20Dragons%20Immortal%20Rules%20Box%20Set%205%20TSR%20DD&w=400&h=400&c=7&pid=1.7&adlt=moderate&t=1)

(https://d1vzi28wh99zvq.cloudfront.net/images/44/17171.jpg)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aScAAOSwD89k8nQZ/s-l400.jpg)

(https://ia801606.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/13/items/players-handbook-v-3.5/Player%27s%20Handbook%20v3.5_jp2.zip&file=Player%27s%20Handbook%20v3.5_jp2/Player%27s%20Handbook%20v3.5_0000.jp2&id=players-handbook-v-3.5&scale=4&rotate=0)

(https://goblinbros.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/PHB4Cover.jpg)

(https://archive.org/services/img/dungeon-masters-guide/full/pct:200/0/default.jpg)

(https://i0.wp.com/jogaod20.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/DD-Pre-Venda.png?resize=400%2C200&ssl=1)

So many years and so many games.

(https://media.tenor.com/iA7dQNAtex4AAAAM/memories-frankie.gif)

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2024, 02:19:31 PMA game so "simple" you NEED automated character sheets to play it.

Think I'll stick to AD&D/Basic (or retroclones/games that use those rules) thanks.

To be fair, I don't use D&D Beyond and had zero problems running a full caster all the way to level 20 with a character sheet I made on Microsoft Word (because my actual handwriting is chicken scratch). Its NOT actually a hard system, some people just use automated bits because they're there rather than because they really need them.

"It's Official" is stupid, but its a real thing.

If anything, 5e errs on the side of too simple for my preferences.

there's more D&D now than there ever was. There are hundreds of D&D games now. Its just called the OSR, not Hasbro.

It sounds like WotC is going to keep on making print books through the end of next year at least, based on the news from today's "Direct." https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1807-d-d-direct-recap-a-look-at-two-forgotten-realms (https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1807-d-d-direct-recap-a-look-at-two-forgotten-realms)

But even if I hadn't given up on WotC years ago, this art from the top of the article (and apparently the 2024 PHB) would be enough to scare me away:

(https://www.dndbeyond.com/attachments/11/546/phb-subclasses-dd-direct.jpg)

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 27, 2024, 01:01:30 PMIt sounds like WotC is going to keep on making print books through the end of next year at least, based on the news from today's "Direct." https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1807-d-d-direct-recap-a-look-at-two-forgotten-realms (https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1807-d-d-direct-recap-a-look-at-two-forgotten-realms)

But even if I hadn't given up on WotC years ago, this art from the top of the article (and apparently the 2024 PHB) would be enough to scare me away:

(https://www.dndbeyond.com/attachments/11/546/phb-subclasses-dd-direct.jpg)

Besides all the gayness it exudes someone needs to teach the artist how to hold that hammer, that's not how you do it.

Pay close attention to the right hand's orientation. It's holding the hammer as if it was a spear.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2024, 01:12:37 PMBesides all the gayness it exudes someone needs to teach the artist how to hold that hammer, that's not how you do it.

Pay close attention to the right hand's orientation. It's holding the hammer as if it was a spear.

Not sure. But think that is a actual hammer hold there. You slide the far hand down to the handle hand as you build momentum. It still looks off or at least awkward.

But a quick search and colour me surprised when yah is how you handle it.

Quote from: Omega on August 27, 2024, 02:28:14 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2024, 01:12:37 PMBesides all the gayness it exudes someone needs to teach the artist how to hold that hammer, that's not how you do it.

Pay close attention to the right hand's orientation. It's holding the hammer as if it was a spear.

Not sure. But think that is a actual hammer hold there. You slide the far hand down to the handle hand as you build momentum. It still looks off or at least awkward.

But a quick search and colour me surprised when yah is how you handle it.

You just proved my point, his thumbs are opposite to each other, unlike in the drawing where both hands thumbs are pointing DOWNWARDS. He's holding the hammer like if he were to thrust a spear.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2024, 03:02:40 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 27, 2024, 02:28:14 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2024, 01:12:37 PMBesides all the gayness it exudes someone needs to teach the artist how to hold that hammer, that's not how you do it.

Pay close attention to the right hand's orientation. It's holding the hammer as if it was a spear.

Not sure. But think that is a actual hammer hold there. You slide the far hand down to the handle hand as you build momentum. It still looks off or at least awkward.

But a quick search and colour me surprised when yah is how you handle it.

You just proved my point, his thumbs are opposite to each other, unlike in the drawing where both hands thumbs are pointing DOWNWARDS. He's holding the hammer like if he were to thrust a spear.

I believe that when you say "teach the artist" it means "train the AI".

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 27, 2024, 03:08:17 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2024, 03:02:40 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 27, 2024, 02:28:14 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2024, 01:12:37 PMBesides all the gayness it exudes someone needs to teach the artist how to hold that hammer, that's not how you do it.

Pay close attention to the right hand's orientation. It's holding the hammer as if it was a spear.

Not sure. But think that is a actual hammer hold there. You slide the far hand down to the handle hand as you build momentum. It still looks off or at least awkward.

But a quick search and colour me surprised when yah is how you handle it.

You just proved my point, his thumbs are opposite to each other, unlike in the drawing where both hands thumbs are pointing DOWNWARDS. He's holding the hammer like if he were to thrust a spear.

I believe that when you say "teach the artist" it means "train the AI".

Could be, maybe that's why that error is there.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 27, 2024, 03:02:40 PMYou just proved my point, his thumbs are opposite to each other, unlike in the drawing where both hands thumbs are pointing DOWNWARDS. He's holding the hammer like if he were to thrust a spear.

Um, look again. The character in the art is holding the hammer in the same way.

The thumb on the hand near the head is pointing up, and the one near the base is pointing down.

Points to the artist for at least getting it right. Still doesnt look right.

Skip to around the 12 min mark and get a load of these jokers trying to sell Sigil.

So D&D has to be more "toyetic" and the players want more "toys". uh-huh? Tell us more? Also they do not seem to know what a module is.

On the rare bright side. looks like a fair amount of customization is going to be allowed. That might bet paywalled. But so far that is a rare good sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3RqehN6hS0

Oh look, WOTC announced their slate of upcoming products and A TON OF IT IS PHYSICAL PRODUCTS!

Starter set is a redo of Keep on the Borderlands, Wilderness, and Caves of Chaos. Physical boxed set, three adventures.

"Dragon Amthology", 10 new small Adventures focused on Dragons, physical book.

DM's Guide to Faerun (namedrops Dalelands, Calishman, Baldur's Gate, Moonshine Isles, Icewind Dale) physical book.

Players Guide to Faerun: new subclasses, new Feats, new Backgrounds, new Spells. Physical book.

This is all of course in addition to DMG and MM.

And Local Game Store Early Access, two weeks early for books, and special covers for Local Game Stores, and additional adventure support for local game stores. A sure sign they are killing physical books, right?

They also again confirmed, and showed, that their VTT is a 3d sandbox where you can play any TTRPG, not just D&D.

And then they announced a huge slate of 3rd party publishers who will be included with DnDBeyond. Including non-DnD stuff like Lord of the Rings. You can bring your own images, and bring 2d images into it. Heck, you can play OSR games on it. Too bad Pundit is so dead set on enshitfying conversations about WOTC D&D, maybe he could have had his products included on DnDBeyond and be readying inclusion in their VTT for a huge boost in his sales. Oh well. Lost capitalist opportunity. His clickbait edgelord bullshit videos will make up that revenue, right? Right?

And some other stuff, like D&D Legos (physical, 12 minifigs) and new Magic: The Gathering D&D cards (physical).

Wow, it's almost as if Pundit was LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH about WOTC going digital-only!

(https://i.ibb.co/F4F1R06/image.png)

(https://i.ibb.co/4pwFD4T/image.png)

Can't wait to see what a train wreck this Keep on the Borderlands will be with orcs being fun loving Mexicans. The castellan will likely be a fat lesbian and the caves of chaos filled with white conservatives. Ought to be a hoot.

You call essentially a two-part book (FR), an art book about dragons, and a rehash of the starter set "tons"? The FR books are the only real thing there, and would have been planned about two years ago, and given that 5e has never actually had a single true setting product, they're willing to gamble on a two-volume set about the Forgotten Realms actually maybe making them some money (of course, whether it will or not will depend on  how much they butcher it by filling it full of gay dwarves and strong overweight bipoc girl-bosses).

Meanwhile, they're promoting third party products they've made deals with on their VTT BECAUSE they don't want to product more published content. And incidentally, the VTT will be a subscription model with microtransactions to the point that the video reveals that even "tokens" (ie. virtual minis) will have to be purchased.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 28, 2024, 11:00:09 AMYou call essentially a two-part book (FR), an art book about dragons

It's not, in any way, an art book. Even the briefest of looks at the video shows that. Ten adventures, each featuring a different dragon.

Quoteand a rehash of the starter set "tons"?

They had 3-4 books/boxed sets per year before. They have more than that slated to come out now. If you were telling the truth, they would be reducing their number of books, not increasing it. But you were not telling the truth. You've entered the predicted spin phase of trying to cover for lying.

QuoteThe FR books are the only real thing there

Another lie. The dragon book is an adventure book. The boxed starter set has counted in every single edition of the game, by your reckoning as well in past years. Now it magically doesn't count because each adventure in it is an iconic adventure from the past? Did the other remakes over the years not count too? If they were going all digital, why would they even bother publishing a boxed set given it's expensive to do so as I am sure you know. The answer is you know damn well they're not going all digital. Because you were lying for clicks and got caught.

Quoteand would have been planned about two years ago, and given that 5e has never actually had a single true setting product, they're willing to gamble on a two-volume set about the Forgotten Realms actually maybe making them some money (of course, whether it will or not will depend on  how much they butcher it by filling it full of gay dwarves and strong overweight bipoc girl-bosses).

Meanwhile, they're promoting third party products they've made deals with on their VTT BECAUSE they don't want to product more published content.

Evidence for that claim is non-existent. Just like your claim they were going all digital based on them saying they were spending more money on digital. You did miss an opportunity though. You could have been in on this. You could have had your published products on DNDBeyond and their new VTT, exposed to a huge new audience. I personally would have enjoyed that and it would have drastically increased the odds I could talk my gaming groups into trying your stuff out. Instead, you chose this clickbait edgelord enshitification of D&D discussions. Did the clicks make up for the lost profits you could have made?

QuoteAnd incidentally, the VTT will be a subscription model with microtransactions to the point that the video reveals that even "tokens" (ie. virtual minis) will have to be purchased.

They don't say that either in the video. More of you just lying by claiming your speculation is reality.

You'll never admit you lied on this one. Particularly since your back is against the wall having called me out in your video (which was particularly low) but we can all see you were lying. Difference with this one is, since you called me out, I won't let you weasel out of it like I have in your past lies. This time, every book they come out with for years will be slammed over your head (metaphorically speaking). I am going to use this as the representative example for how your videos are clickbait lies, and then you never retroactively examine your prior claims to see if you were correct because they were often fabrications or speculations presented as fact which turned out to be wrong.

You will just spin, pretend you said something different from what you said, or that what you said shouldn't be taken literally or the way you said it but meant something else you gave no indication it was supposed to mean. And we will all know it for the lie it is. I expect most will let you off the hook, because it's the character you play online, and that's what I used to do too. But you know every response you give you're digging a reputation hole slightly deeper because it's lying, and you're too much of a coward to do what you know needs to be done and just rip that bandage off and admit you were lying for clicks.

This was dumb Pundit. You taking my criticism of your position personally was dumb. You knew it was not intended personally, you knew I had no beef with you, you knew I had agreed with you sometimes and not other times (and have gone to bat for you many times elsewhere, some of which I know you saw), but you decided to call me out in your video and claim I had some issue with you. So now I do. Don't pretend you didn't start this though. You surely deserve it.

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Mistwell,

Please care to explain the above link?

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 02:03:19 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 28, 2024, 11:00:09 AMYou call essentially a two-part book (FR), an art book about dragons

It's not, in any way, an art book. Even the briefest of looks at the video shows that. Ten adventures, each featuring a different dragon.

Quoteand a rehash of the starter set "tons"?

They had 3-4 books/boxed sets per year before. They have more than that slated to come out now. If you were telling the truth, they would be reducing their number of books, not increasing it. But you were not telling the truth. You've entered the predicted spin phase of trying to cover for lying.

QuoteThe FR books are the only real thing there

Another lie. The dragon book is an adventure book. The boxed starter set has counted in every single edition of the game, by your reckoning as well in past years. Now it magically doesn't count because each adventure in it is an iconic adventure from the past? Did the other remakes over the years not count too? If they were going all digital, why would they even bother publishing a boxed set given it's expensive to do so as I am sure you know. The answer is you know damn well they're not going all digital. Because you were lying for clicks and got caught.

Quoteand would have been planned about two years ago, and given that 5e has never actually had a single true setting product, they're willing to gamble on a two-volume set about the Forgotten Realms actually maybe making them some money (of course, whether it will or not will depend on  how much they butcher it by filling it full of gay dwarves and strong overweight bipoc girl-bosses).

Meanwhile, they're promoting third party products they've made deals with on their VTT BECAUSE they don't want to product more published content.

Evidence for that claim is non-existent. Just like your claim they were going all digital based on them saying they were spending more money on digital. You did miss an opportunity though. You could have been in on this. You could have had your published products on DNDBeyond and their new VTT, exposed to a huge new audience. I personally would have enjoyed that and it would have drastically increased the odds I could talk my gaming groups into trying your stuff out. Instead, you chose this clickbait edgelord enshitification of D&D discussions. Did the clicks make up for the lost profits you could have made?

QuoteAnd incidentally, the VTT will be a subscription model with microtransactions to the point that the video reveals that even "tokens" (ie. virtual minis) will have to be purchased.

They don't say that either in the video. More of you just lying by claiming your speculation is reality.

You'll never admit you lied on this one. Particularly since your back is against the wall having called me out in your video (which was particularly low) but we can all see you were lying. Difference with this one is, since you called me out, I won't let you weasel out of it like I have in your past lies. This time, every book they come out with for years will be slammed over your head (metaphorically speaking). I am going to use this as the representative example for how your videos are clickbait lies, and then you never retroactively examine your prior claims to see if you were correct because they were often fabrications or speculations presented as fact which turned out to be wrong.

You will just spin, pretend you said something different from what you said, or that what you said shouldn't be taken literally or the way you said it but meant something else you gave no indication it was supposed to mean. And we will all know it for the lie it is. I expect most will let you off the hook, because it's the character you play online, and that's what I used to do too. But you know every response you give you're digging a reputation hole slightly deeper because it's lying, and you're too much of a coward to do what you know needs to be done and just rip that bandage off and admit you were lying for clicks.

This was dumb Pundit. You taking my criticism of your position personally was dumb. You knew it was not intended personally, you knew I had no beef with you, you knew I had agreed with you sometimes and not other times (and have gone to bat for you many times elsewhere, some of which I know you saw), but you decided to call me out in your video and claim I had some issue with you. So now I do. Don't pretend you didn't start this though. You surely deserve it.

...and yet you could have done the mature thing by contacting Pundit via PM and resolve things discretely, without fanfare or hostility.

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Mistwell,

Please care to explain the above link?

Sure, what do you want to know, and what does this have to do with the topic?

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 03:23:15 PM...and yet you could have done the mature thing by contacting Pundit via PM and resolve things discretely, without fanfare or hostility.

He came after me, directly, in a video. The topic was raised to him by others in this thread. He continued to come after me in this thread directly. Why would it be on me to contact him discreetly to resolve it. Dude just started taking shots at me publicly, as a publisher and guy who runs this site, and it's on me to smooth things over?

I would LOVE to know what it would take for people to hold Pundit accountable for his asshattery here.

More details from the Starter Set, reinforcing this isn't just some reprint:

"Heroes of the Borderlands (working title) makes it easy to start playing D&D in minutes with a quick-start guide; intuitive, component-centric character creation; and a modular, introductory adventure. It reimagines B2: The Keep on the Borderlands—a classic introductory D&D adventure—for use with this boxed set by splitting the adventure into three self-contained booklets: the Caves of Chaos, the Keep on the Borderlands, and the Wilderness. Each booklet includes a short tutorial to help new and returning players learn as they go. A how-to-play video will also accompany the release."

Yeah, that's a new publication.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 04:54:18 PMMore details from the Starter Set, reinforcing this isn't just some reprint:

Yeah, that's a new publication.

Might b actually worse if it is a "reimagining" as that is the codeword for "we slapped the title of a known IP on this thing we had laying around."

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 04:51:21 PM

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Mistwell,

Please care to explain the above link?

Sure, what do you want to know, and what does this have to do with the topic?

That WoTC went back from going full digital by delaying it for a year it seems.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 04:52:46 PM

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 03:23:15 PM...and yet you could have done the mature thing by contacting Pundit via PM and resolve things discretely, without fanfare or hostility.

He came after me, directly, in a video. The topic was raised to him by others in this thread. He continued to come after me in this thread directly. Why would it be on me to contact him discreetly to resolve it. Dude just started taking shots at me publicly, as a publisher and guy who runs this site, and it's on me to smooth things over?

I would LOVE to know what it would take for people to hold Pundit accountable for his asshattery here.

Pundit and my friend and associate of the Roll For Initiative podcast (Vince) has a bit of a misunderstanding about what each other was about a few years ago. I could have "called him out" in public. But I didn't. I'm PM'ed Pundit about the situation, they cleared things up, and everything was water under the bridge.

It was a big deal to me, because Vince is a good friend of mine, and I held Pundit in the highest regard. I now consider him a friend as well. Best friends? No. But a friend nonetheless.

So, I decided to do what mature adults do: talk to him about it personally, without fanfare and name calling.

With that being said, yes, it was incumbent upon you to "extend and olive branch" if you will. Instead you went right to scorched earth by using words like "liar", "weasel", "dumb", and "coward".

I'll just leave it at that.

Quote from: Omega on August 28, 2024, 07:41:37 PMMight b actually worse if it is a "reimagining" as that is the codeword for "we slapped the title of a known IP on this thing we had laying around."

This is what I am wondering as well. I really don't care what digital stuff WOTC wants to do or what physical products they want to publish. The important thing - is the product going to be super lame and wearing the skin of a beloved piece of D&D history? Based on track record alone the magic 8 ball says likely yes.

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 07:52:57 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 04:51:21 PM

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Mistwell,

Please care to explain the above link?

Sure, what do you want to know, and what does this have to do with the topic?

That WoTC went back from going full digital by delaying it for a year it seems.

That announcement says nothing about delaying anything. It says people with the 2014 version of the rules will continue to be able to use the 2014 versions on D&DBeyond. Those who also get the 2024 version can access both versions.

There's no mention at all of this being time limited, delayed, nor requiring the VTT in that announcement.

Are you sure you linked to the right page?

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 02:03:19 PMDid the other remakes over the years not count too?

The only part of this argument between Mistell and Pundit that gets on my nerves is this part.

No. For me, they did not count. I believe that they were poorly done, and did not measure up well with the original adventures at all.

I know the crowd they were designed for gobbled them all up like hotcakes (or something), but I found them lackluster at best. I guess since I only have a weenie and not a weenie and/or vageenie and don't subscribe to the pronoun clowns or dye my hair multiple colors or claim to be a victim multiple times over, none of it resonated with me very deeply.

Lying, implies one KNOWS whatever one's saying is false.

Conversely one can make a claim/prediction and be wrong, fully, partially or by a matter of degree.

Quote from: Chris24601 on August 28, 2024, 08:41:25 PM

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 07:52:57 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 04:51:21 PM

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 02:42:28 PM

Quote from: Nobleshield on August 26, 2024, 09:07:15 AMThey just went back on it, it seems.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Mistwell,

Please care to explain the above link?

Sure, what do you want to know, and what does this have to do with the topic?

That WoTC went back from going full digital by delaying it for a year it seems.

That announcement says nothing about delaying anything. It says people with the 2014 version of the rules will continue to be able to use the 2014 versions on D&DBeyond. Those who also get the 2024 version can access both versions.

There's no mention at all of this being time limited, delayed, nor requiring the VTT in that announcement.

Ok, that's fair.

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 04:54:18 PMMore details from the Starter Set, reinforcing this isn't just some reprint:

"Heroes of the Borderlands (working title) makes it easy to start playing D&D in minutes with a quick-start guide; intuitive, component-centric character creation; and a modular, introductory adventure. It reimagines B2: The Keep on the Borderlands—a classic introductory D&D adventure—for use with this boxed set by splitting the adventure into three self-contained booklets: the Caves of Chaos, the Keep on the Borderlands, and the Wilderness. Each booklet includes a short tutorial to help new and returning players learn as they go. A how-to-play video will also accompany the release."

Yeah, that's a new publication.

Gee, it sounds like they're taking the same material as before and just converting it to 5E.

"Reimagining" is a lazy term for "we're creatively bankrupt, cheap, and can't come up with any new material that's good"

sort of like how Star Trek was recently "reimagined".

There's nothing in this announcement that contradicts what I've been saying. I said from the start that they were publishing the new edition books because they know that's an instant cash grab (and WotC desperately need instant cash grabs). I even added that if the books sell extremely well (beyond pre-orders, that is, people have a chance to look at the books and decide they're actually worth it) they may put out more publications than they otherwise would. I also said that if the VTT turns out to be a disaster (which it could be), there's a chance that they might try going back to books (though there's an even bigger chance they might just farm out the D&D IP in the form of a license).

The basic set is part of that initial publication cash-grab, and the Forgotten Realms product was almost certainly planned from the start (that is, two+ years ago) when they may not even have been sure if they were going full digital as a strategy. It may even have predated Cynthia Williams. There may have been other books planned, which were dropped when she called for going all-in on the VTT, dumping their distributor, and firing most of their writers. But it makes sense to keep the FR set because if anything has a chance of making money, it's selling the first new FR set in decades to FR fanboys.

Quote from: blackstone on August 28, 2024, 09:37:56 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on August 28, 2024, 04:54:18 PMMore details from the Starter Set, reinforcing this isn't just some reprint:

"Heroes of the Borderlands (working title) makes it easy to start playing D&D in minutes with a quick-start guide; intuitive, component-centric character creation; and a modular, introductory adventure. It reimagines B2: The Keep on the Borderlands—a classic introductory D&D adventure—for use with this boxed set by splitting the adventure into three self-contained booklets: the Caves of Chaos, the Keep on the Borderlands, and the Wilderness. Each booklet includes a short tutorial to help new and returning players learn as they go. A how-to-play video will also accompany the release."

Yeah, that's a new publication.

Gee, it sounds like they're taking the same material as before and just converting it to 5E.

"Reimagining" is a lazy term for "we're creatively bankrupt, cheap, and can't come up with any new material that's good"

sort of like how Star Trek was recently "reimagined".

Re-imagined more often means "we slapped an IP on something barely related."

Nu Trek, Nu BSG, nu fucking everything at this point. nu Mission Impossible shared practically nothing with its origins other than them being maybe spies. The list is long of these abominations.

From how they were talking about the VTT recently, it sounds like they will want to add all kinds of other non-D&D hasbro IP to the thing over time. How many of you will be looking forward to "D&D: My Little Pony"?

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 29, 2024, 03:26:39 AMThere's nothing in this announcement that contradicts what I've been saying. I said from the start that they were publishing the new edition books because they know that's an instant cash grab (and WotC desperately need instant cash grabs). I even added that if the books sell extremely well (beyond pre-orders, that is, people have a chance to look at the books and decide they're actually worth it) they may put out more publications than they otherwise would. I also said that if the VTT turns out to be a disaster (which it could be), there's a chance that they might try going back to books (though there's an even bigger chance they might just farm out the D&D IP in the form of a license).

Here's what you said in the video from the original post of the thread (from 5:13).

Quote from: theRPGPunditI pointed out that that essentially they're not making books anymore that that that this is it right like there there might be occasionally some special edition book sort of thing or box set or something like that some kind of product um as merchandising in essence as like a special event thing right but where you're not going to get is four or five crappy Adventures a year in in hard cover format that is not going to happen. I said that I said they're going all in on the VTT. On theRPGsite thread related to this there's a guy frequently wrong guy named mwell who jumped in and said no they're not that they're going to keep publishing. I was like they don't even have a publishing division anymore for books. Everybody who was involved in the books has been fired. He goes no, they haven't. It's going to happen. He's like, "I predict that in a few years when it's clear that this is all that you were totally wrong you're just going to pretend like it never happened."

I think given that you're calling Mistwell out here, that it's reasonable for him to give the evidence on his side.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 29, 2024, 12:54:51 PMFrom how they were talking about the VTT recently, it sounds like they will want to add all kinds of other non-D&D hasbro IP to the thing over time. How many of you will be looking forward to "D&D: My Little Pony"?

They already did a MLP RPG. Dont know if it uses the D&D system though. I glanced at it for my niece who liked the series. But was unimpressed.

From how they talked in the press releases they want Sigil to become some sort of IP platform rather than a D&D one. Hence why D&D is not directly supported. Nor Beyond as yet. That may change. wotc seems to be getting a few wake-up calls lately. But we all know they will ignore most of the warning signs.

Quote from: jhkim on August 29, 2024, 01:13:20 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 29, 2024, 03:26:39 AMThere's nothing in this announcement that contradicts what I've been saying. I said from the start that they were publishing the new edition books because they know that's an instant cash grab (and WotC desperately need instant cash grabs). I even added that if the books sell extremely well (beyond pre-orders, that is, people have a chance to look at the books and decide they're actually worth it) they may put out more publications than they otherwise would. I also said that if the VTT turns out to be a disaster (which it could be), there's a chance that they might try going back to books (though there's an even bigger chance they might just farm out the D&D IP in the form of a license).

Here's what you said in the video from the original post of the thread (from 5:13).

Quote from: theRPGPunditI pointed out that that essentially they're not making books anymore that that that this is it right like there there might be occasionally some special edition book sort of thing or box set or something like that some kind of product um as merchandising in essence as like a special event thing right but where you're not going to get is four or five crappy Adventures a year in in hard cover format that is not going to happen. I said that I said they're going all in on the VTT. On theRPGsite thread related to this there's a guy frequently wrong guy named mwell who jumped in and said no they're not that they're going to keep publishing. I was like they don't even have a publishing division anymore for books. Everybody who was involved in the books has been fired. He goes no, they haven't. It's going to happen. He's like, "I predict that in a few years when it's clear that this is all that you were totally wrong you're just going to pretend like it never happened."

I think given that you're calling Mistwell out here, that it's reasonable for him to give the evidence on his side.

Well sure, it is fair for him to try to argue that a setting book-set that is obviously tied to the new edition means that there will continue to be regular printing of more crap woke OneDnD books in dead tree format in spite of how corporate has been screaming at the top of their lungs that they need to make a billion dollars and the only way to do that is to force everyone onto the VTT, make them pay subscriptions, make them pay for virtual minis, make them pay for the better magic, and then put My Little Pony in there too.

And I can point out why his argument still doesn't hold water.

Quote from: Omega on August 29, 2024, 04:06:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 29, 2024, 12:54:51 PMFrom how they were talking about the VTT recently, it sounds like they will want to add all kinds of other non-D&D hasbro IP to the thing over time. How many of you will be looking forward to "D&D: My Little Pony"?

They already did a MLP RPG. Dont know if it uses the D&D system though. I glanced at it for my niece who liked the series. But was unimpressed.

From how they talked in the press releases they want Sigil to become some sort of IP platform rather than a D&D one. Hence why D&D is not directly supported. Nor Beyond as yet. That may change. wotc seems to be getting a few wake-up calls lately. But we all know they will ignore most of the warning signs.

The entertainment is mostly found in figuring out in what way Hasbro/WotC will screw up by not understanding their customer base.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 30, 2024, 01:32:53 AMThe entertainment is mostly found in figuring out in what way Hasbro/WotC will screw up by not understanding their customer base.

Or more telling. Not knowing what the hell their own company is doing. Hasbro forgetting the myriad fuckups wotc has made with just about everything handed to them AND their own stuff to boot is just one more indicator.