Quote from: jhkim;1113827I don't really get Achtung Cthulhu. I'm down with having straight shoot-up-the-bad-guy game, but I feel like that doesn't mix with Lovecraft. It's things that really don't go together, I feel. I'm not a purist per se, but it feels shallow and/or overused to have Lovecraft monsters be generic bad guys like Nazis. I think the horror works better when there aren't clear good guys and bad guys. .

I think that the vibe you get from the first Hellboy movie is a vibe that people like.  You're basically mixing occult and Nazism, but to answer the question 'what is the occult' you turn to Mythos stuff for flavor.  If you strip out the mythos stuff and put in Christian theology you get Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Having a defined bad guy appeals to a lot of players.  If you've heard anyone in fantasy say 'I just want to kill orcs' I think you can understand the appeal of having bad guys that are part of something so criminally evil that even if they're individually likable, you don't have to feel bad about shooting them dead.

Quote from: Catelf;1113857If only people on either side of the "Damn, i just want to game"-middle weren't overreacting, or even worse, hounding said middle for things that are a natural part of it, including trends.

It's funny to me that people keep bringing this up.  If you 'just want to game', just do it.  Don't stop the game every time a gay-gnome of color pops up.  Demanding that published modules cater to your extremely narrow tastes to avoid any hint of 'wokeness' is political and is annoying.  A gay paladin character is interesting; if you don't think so make him straight or gender-swap him and in 3 seconds your game isn't going to intrude on your sensibilities.

Quote from: jhkim;1113827I don't really get Achtung Cthulhu. I'm down with having straight shoot-up-the-bad-guy game, but I feel like that doesn't mix with Lovecraft. It's things that really don't go together, I feel. I'm not a purist per se, but it feels shallow and/or overused to have Lovecraft monsters be generic bad guys like Nazis. I think the horror works better when there aren't clear good guys and bad guys.

The last time I ran Call of Cthulhu, the Nazis were part of the alliance against the Deep Ones and other horrors. If there's one thing that nazis hate, it's mixed blood mongrels like Deep Ones.

Have you read World War Cthulhu? It's a more... down to earth take on Lovecraft in WW2, erring much closer to Delta Green. The Mythos and it's tendrils are, as ever, slithering about... it just so happens World War 2 is occurring. Investigators in the field will be opposing the Nazis and Mythos, but often the missions are mutually exclusive, as opposed to always fighting Stupid Tentacle Hitler(tm).

I'm not a fan of A!C's pulp nature, but at least it doesn't pretend to be anything but.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1113897Stupid Tentacle Hitler(tm)

Harem anime gets weirder every year.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1113900Harem anime gets weirder every year.

Boy do I have a game for you...

Quote from: Snark Knight;1113901Boy do I have a game for you...

LOL What a time to be alive!

Quote from: sureshot;1113878I enjoyed Lumley as Lovecraft constant nihilism gets truly annoying in his stories. We get we are doomed why not go out fighting as opposed to just doom and gloom. That being said Lumley does definitely do the writers equivalent of  phoning it in for the series.

Well if one wants protagonists who use .50 machinguns to take down Mythos horrors, then Lumley is the go-to author.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1113888I think that the vibe you get from the first Hellboy movie is a vibe that people like.  You're basically mixing occult and Nazism, but to answer the question 'what is the occult' you turn to Mythos stuff for flavor.

If I try to fit these things on a continuum.

In Lovecraft (and authors who stick close to the same tone), the reader knows (or will soon know after reading a few stories) that ultimately humanity cannot win and anything the heroes do is, at best, a short term delay in things becoming unimaginably worse. And that magic and artifacts are dangerous and the mere attempt to confront and understand these horrors and delay the inevitable is damaging to a hero's psyche and sanity. Always looming is the knowledge that one day the stars will be right and Cthulhu will awaken and the Old Ones will extinguish humanity and anything approaching life as we know it.

In Lumley, the reader knows (or will soon know after the first novel or two) that learning and magic makes the heroes more capable and powerful, thereby ensuring that the brave heroes will certainly triumph in the end.

The tone in Hellboy is in between the two. The reader knows (or will soon know) that there are bad things that go bump in the night and that the BPRD is there to bump back. In each story the heroes eventually defeat or delay the threat they encounter - but agents will die in the process. Knowledge and magic is useful and mostly safe to acquire. But ultimate victory is not assured...and may not even be possible. The cosmos may be one where humanity is ultimately doomed to failure (like Lovecraft's), especially if Hellboy cannot overcome his fate. As the reader, we just don't know.

Quote from: Bren;1113727Works fine, as in can damage and kill the target, sure. Not so fine if the investigators are acting without government sanction and the campaign includes a risk of arrest and trial as well as the problems associated with disposing of bodies to avoid arrest.

I said the guns work fine. If the people using them are missing a few SAN point then that is no fault of the gun. :cool: probably... :eek:

Quote from: Catelf;1113857If only people on either side of the "Damn, i just want to game"-middle weren't overreacting, or even worse, hounding said middle for things that are a natural part of it, including trends.

This problem goes back at least to the 90s which is why I say its cyclic. Because it is. You see a "movement" to "clean up the media" usually with the added battlecry of "So the mainstream will respect us!"
It usually starts with simple demands. But then invariably escalates to ever increasingly insane demands. Eventually theres resistance and pushback. Usually over the top pushback because people get sick and tired of being attacked and accused of the most lunatic things.

Now toss in a program by these "moral guardians" to infiltrate, subvert, co-opt and/or destroy neutral or opposition groups. Especially neutral groups. Usually by somehow gaining a staff position.

And I've seen this way the hell too much

And to keep this on topic. Ive seen several act way the hell too much like a Lovecraftian cult spreading like some sort of communicable mental disease. And not just online.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1113900Harem anime gets weirder every year.

Bemusingly there IS a harem anime allready about a guy who ends up saddled with an ever increasing number of eldritch horrors disguised as schoolgirls. Haiyore! Nyaruko: Remember My Mr. Lovecraft. Originally a light novel series.

Quote from: Omega;1113965Bemusingly there IS a harem anime allready about a guy who ends up saddled with an ever increasing number of eldritch horrors disguised as schoolgirls. Haiyore! Nyaruko: Remember My Mr. Lovecraft. Originally a light novel series.

Ha, it figures! The obsession with "monstergirls" in general has seemingly reached a peak high, so long as 4chan can be considered valid reference material anyway...

Quote from: aztecman;1113568Ok, very good then, that's good to know. Is the newest version of the Masks of Nyarlathotep boxed set ok or should I stick to the original version?

I am at best an intermediate Keeper but if this is your first go around with CoC you might consider letting your players get the feel of the game via some short scenarios as Masks is a beast that will take a really LONG time to go through. Two free scenarios that are introductory yet fun are The Haunting and Edge of Darkness. The Haunting in particular has loads of fan made resources available for it and there is loads of advice on the web for running it. You might also consider joining //www.yog-sothoth.com as it is the place to go for Cthulhu resources. Note you do have to sign up to download anything but it doesn't put you on a mailing list or anything.

Quote from: Bren;1113607If only it was. The level of hysteria here sometimes approaches Big Purple levels of silly.

It's an open question whether the Conservative Justice Warrior or the Social Justice Warrior has higher levels of butthurt. Of course neither approach the lonely loser status of the Bitter Non-Gamer, or the storygamer.

The words of Jesse Ventura come to mind.

The 1st edition of games is usually the best one. Certainly anything beyond a 3rd edition is a mess one way or another. Of course, much the same applies to movies and novels.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1114069It's an open question whether the Conservative Justice Warrior or the Social Justice Warrior has higher levels of butthurt. Of course neither approach the lonely loser status of the Bitter Non-Gamer, or the storygamer.

The words of Jesse Ventura come to mind.

The 1st edition of games is usually the best one. Certainly anything beyond a 3rd edition is a mess one way or another. Of course, much the same applies to movies and novels.

I'm looking for something to strongly disagree with...

Quote from: CanBeOnlyOne;1114015I am at best an intermediate Keeper but if this is your first go around with CoC you might consider letting your players get the feel of the game via some short scenarios as Masks is a beast that will take a really LONG time to go through. Two free scenarios that are introductory yet fun are The Haunting and Edge of Darkness. The Haunting in particular has loads of fan made resources available for it and there is loads of advice on the web for running it. You might also consider joining //www.yog-sothoth.com as it is the place to go for Cthulhu resources. Note you do have to sign up to download anything but it doesn't put you on a mailing list or anything.

Oh I wasn't planning on running Masks just yet. That was for my own personal purchase. I'll definitely be using an introductory adventure for the first few games. I'll also check out yog-sothoth.com for resources, thanks for the suggestion!

Aztecman

Please remember to keep this on-topic.

Also, if you want a version of CoC that isn't full of wokeness, check out Raiders of R'lyeh!