Hanoi Jane would love Nu-Chaosium.

Quote from: Nihilistic Mind;1113555LMAO
Are you serious? Because this reads like delicious satire...

If only it was. The level of hysteria here sometimes approaches Big Purple levels of silly. But thankfully without the mod-enforced mandatory shunnings.

In August I played in multiple games of Call of Cthulhu at NecronomiCon. All but one used Cthulhu 7. No noticeable wokeness was enforced. Though it was pretty funny when one youngster told me I was using the wrong dice to make my skill roll. I don't think they had ever seen an old-style 20-sided dice used to make a percentile roll.

Quote from: Bren;1113607If only it was. The level of hysteria here sometimes approaches Big Purple levels of silly.

If only it were just hysteria and not company after company being slowly, or not-so-slowly, infested with these SJW idiots who invariably end up being more offensive those of us they are supposedly trying to "defend" than the people they demonize.

As for the RPG and modules. The PDFs are absurdly overpriced. Yes there is some SJW insertions here and there and Lovecraft bashing as is the new fad. But it is usually squirreled away in the stuff they inserted into the modules rather than the module proper. I have 5th ed I believe and it is pretty good. No idea what happened after 5th though.

Quote from: aztecman;1113568Ok, very good then, that's good to know.

Also, check out Stealing Cthulhu. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/106251/Stealing-Cthulhu
It helps you insert HP Lovecraft stories/themes into your game sessions where most splat-books fail to.

Quote from: Conanist;1113595You are shooting at

If you are shooting in Call of Cthulhu you are already dead.

Could you guys provide concrete examples of wokeness to give some context?

Copied from Gargarth signature:

"Racism has been part of the United States almost since the first white man stepped onto her shores to oppress her indigenous peoples" Call of Cthulhu Starter Set

"All White Americans in the 20s and 30s were so racist that if a fight starts, the white NPCs will focus their attacks on black characters." Pelgrane Press

"A person might be okay with having goldfish in their game, but not be okay with vivid descriptions of their goggly eyes,weird smell, and scaly skin" MonteCook Games

Quote from: Bren;1113607If only it was. The level of hysteria here sometimes approaches Big Purple levels of silly. But thankfully without the mod-enforced mandatory shunnings.

In August I played in multiple games of Call of Cthulhu at NecronomiCon. All but one used Cthulhu 7. No noticeable wokeness was enforced. Though it was pretty funny when one youngster told me I was using the wrong dice to make my skill roll. I don't think they had ever seen an old-style 20-sided dice used to make a percentile roll.

I agree. As I said I have the new version of MoN and haven't noticed much in the way of intrusive wokesterism.

But if people are perhaps excessively sensitive to signs of woke virtue signalling, there's a reason for that. Look at TBP, since you mentioned it. That place didn't go from "message board where people interested in rpgs hang out and talk about rpgs" to "crazytown" overnight. It started small and happened through a long series of incremental steps. Same story with a lot of other things recently.

Quote from: sureshot;1113629Copied from Gargarth signature:

"Racism has been part of the United States almost since the first white man stepped onto her shores to oppress her indigenous peoples" Call of Cthulhu Starter Set

"All White Americans in the 20s and 30s were so racist that if a fight starts, the white NPCs will focus their attacks on black characters." Pelgrane Press

"A person might be okay with having goldfish in their game, but not be okay with vivid descriptions of their goggly eyes,weird smell, and scaly skin" MonteCook Games

Ok, I can see the first two but... what?  Is the third one just because of the possible "triggering" effect or something?  Overall, while yeah, Monte is kinda woke, I really haven't noticed it crop up in the games themselves.  Was that from the completely free, completely optional Consent in Gaming pdf?

Quote from: aztecman;1113585I saw that, it's tempting for sure. I just didn't want to drop alot of money on it if there's content in it that's part of the Nu-Chaosium mindset. I do have access to a copy of the original version, but the newest one is greatly expanded. The prop kit from http://www.hplhs.org/ is also very impressive.

I've only read the first two chapters of Masks 7E.  The new prequel adds little to the campaign:  You (the investigators) get to meet Jackson Elias (instead of being told about your old friend you never before heard of), and fight one or more undead conquistadors.  The kicker?  Jackson Elias is now black.  Interesting complication or irritating wokeness insertion?  Your call.

In Chapter 1, New York, it was originally a bit thin:  Tangle with a low level cult and harvest clues leading to the other scenarios.  Now there is a sub plot about a framed black man facing 1920's justice.  Worthwhile expansion?  Woke interlude?

In At Your Door, the Ran-Tegoth chapter, there are two NPC reinforcements available if needed:  A gay couple.  Plotpoint?  Background?  Tokenism?  Wokeness?  IMO keeper's call.  I see it as - in the battle of your lives against an antediluvian demigod - nobody is going to ask "So...uh...who's usually on top?"

I'm surprised Gagarth hasn't posted in this thread yet with a dozen more examples.

The point is, once you have the game, nobody from Chaosium is going to come to your home and supervise play.  You want Jackson Elias black, white, or a Mi-go meatsuit, it's your call.  Want to explore race relations in the 20's?  Go ahead, or don't.  Having a gay couple investigators?  Same deal, you like - you keep.

Quote from: Crawford Tillinghast;1113643I've only read the first two chapters of Masks 7E.  The new prequel adds little to the campaign:  You (the investigators) get to meet Jackson Elias (instead of being told about your old friend you never before heard of), and fight one or more undead conquistadors.  The kicker?  Jackson Elias is now black.  Interesting complication or irritating wokeness insertion?  Your call.

When I ran MoN a loooong time ago, it became a bit of an in-joke among the players about their "good friend" Jackson Elias, who they never interact with and who is dead the first time the see him in-game. When I saw that prequel chapter I though "I guess our group wasn't the only one".

Quote from: sureshot;1113629Copied from Gargarth signature:

"Racism has been part of the United States almost since the first white man stepped onto her shores to oppress her indigenous peoples" Call of Cthulhu Starter Set

"All White Americans in the 20s and 30s were so racist that if a fight starts, the white NPCs will focus their attacks on black characters." Pelgrane Press

"A person might be okay with having goldfish in their game, but not be okay with vivid descriptions of their goggly eyes,weird smell, and scaly skin" MonteCook Games

Those are all insane. Do you have links to the sources I can double check?

#1 completely misunderstands why white colonists, specifically rich white colonists, invented racism. Racism was invented to justify human rights violations by dehumanizing the victims. Although the original reason for it no longer exists, racism still exists as a leftover that causes people to irrationally dehumanize others. I studied this stuff in college before the SJWs took over and it's pretty easy to understand.

#2 is nonsensical unless the fight is motivated by race in the first place.

Have any of the people writing this stuff experienced racism or know someone who has? Because that's not how racism works. This is offensive because it distorts history and trivializes the horrors experienced by oppressed people around the world today.

Quote from: rgalex;1113641Ok, I can see the first two but... what?  Is the third one just because of the possible "triggering" effect or something?  Overall, while yeah, Monte is kinda woke, I really haven't noticed it crop up in the games themselves.  Was that from the completely free, completely optional Consent in Gaming pdf?

Yeah, number #3 makes no sense to me. It is suppose to be code?

I can understand a complaint like "deep ones are really a persecuted minority" because Lovecraft used them as metaphors for non-white people. In fact, the supposedly horrifying twist ending of the story "Medusa's Coil" was that the protagonist's ancestor Marceline was a black woman.

The SJW stuff is racist in the opposite direction.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1113640But if people are perhaps excessively sensitive to signs of woke virtue signalling, there's a reason for that.

Sure, just as there are reasons people are excessively sensitive to stuff at TBP. I understand the reasons, I just don't believe the reasons justify the hysteria. On either forum. And while this forum doesn't have the bannings, there has been a steady decline in the RPG useful content here and an increase in these bitch and moan threads. The signal to noise ratio here used to be higher and the political noise used to be confined to Punditry.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1113648#1 completely misunderstands why white colonists, specifically rich white colonists, invented racism. Racism was invented to justify human rights violations by dehumanizing the victims. Although the original reason for it no longer exists, racism still exists as a leftover that causes people to irrationally dehumanize others. I studied this stuff in college before the SJWs took over and it's pretty easy to understand.

... I don't know what you were taught at college, but I promise you, white men in the 1500-1700s did not "invent" racism. Humans have been dividing people into group and other all over the globe for a long, long time.

Now if you want to say some people invented specific manifestations of racism, like specific categorization methods, or pseudo-science like phrenology that was used to justify racism, sure, but the basic underlying failing has been with humanity for a long, long, long time.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1113648#1 completely misunderstands why white colonists, specifically rich white colonists, invented racism. Racism was invented to justify human rights violations by dehumanizing the victims.

While Racism somewhat predates the concept of 'Human Rights' per se, there is a lot of truth in this. Christianity has ideas about treating other humans well, that get in the way of what humans want to do - treating other humans badly. This became a particular problem when the Enlightenment secularised and universalised Christian values as Natural Rights. Racism developed in the 18th & 19th century, especially in the USA, as a way to get around that problem. Most cultures have no problem genociding and enslaving the other guy, but they don't have Racism as such. The first 16th century English colonists in the Americas didn't really have it either yet.