Quote from: Corolinth on March 04, 2024, 07:26:35 AM
I have a strong suspicion that some portion of the 1E sales, past and present, has to do with books falling apart. There was a lot more wear and tear on TSR era books because you didn't have people looking up rules on some kind of digital database. Another slice of sales is replacement of books that were lost or misplaced. We're not comparing apples to apples.

Sales are sales, but a guy replacing his D&D books that he threw out when he moved to Dallas 20 years ago isn't the same as a 5E player seeing the light and switching 1E because it's the best edition ever.

UA fell apart right away. The original runs of the PHB, DMG, & MM were constructed of pure iron and mine have held up very well and I have moved 8 times since I got them. Those old 1E books are solid as hell.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 04, 2024, 07:02:30 AMOn the other hand, what I've found is that when 1gp=1xp, you end up having characters having tens of thousands of gold pieces, vastly more than anything they need to buy on the equipment list, after relatively short time.

Heh, I suggested elsewhere going instead with 1cp = 1XP, with a breakdown as such (based on Decipher's Lord of the Rings RPG)

1 GP = 4gp = 16SP = 64sp = 6400cp (GP = Gold Piece, gp = Gold Penny, SP = Silver Piece, sp = Silver Penny, cp = Copper Penny)

All equipment is generally valued in Silver Pieces instead of Gold Pieces. Even with tens of thousands of copper, you're still looking at not that much gold. You can also introduce regional inflation (like was done in LotR RPG), so that equipment costs are higher in certain places compared to others. And so on and so forth to create (sort of) credible money sinks.

Quote from: Corolinth on March 04, 2024, 07:26:35 AM
I have a strong suspicion that some portion of the 1E sales, past and present, has to do with books falling apart. There was a lot more wear and tear on TSR era books because you didn't have people looking up rules on some kind of digital database. Another slice of sales is replacement of books that were lost or misplaced. We're not comparing apples to apples.

Sales are sales, but a guy replacing his D&D books that he threw out when he moved to Dallas 20 years ago isn't the same as a 5E player seeing the light and switching 1E because it's the best edition ever.

I used to look up rules all the time in my AD&D DM guide and Player's Handbook.  I still have them to this day and they are 43 years old. 

My 5e Player's handbook fell apart in 6 months and I sleeved the pages and put it in a binder.  Same thing happened to my monster manual.  I mostly use .pdf's on my phone now. 


The 5 e books are crap quality and fall apart really easy.  And it doesn't take much searching to find a .pdf scan that you can get for free (ARRR!).

The takeaway was never "orcs are racist" but that gamers, and game designers, harbor implicit viewpoints, some of which are racist, and some of which influence how they portray orcs. An orc isn't anything, it's a fantasy archetype that has been represented so many different ways, an orc could be anything. Tolkien represented orcs primarily as militant authoritarians. D&D 3e presents them as raging barbarians. WoW depicts them as noble savages / honorable warrior guys, and also as minions and shock troops.

There were almost no gold coins in the middle ages.

Quote from: Grognard GM on March 03, 2024, 10:51:28 AMI don't see 5e getting a lot of play in decades to come, except from nostalgia.

I think that 5e will live on out of pure spite against wotc for a long long time. Its not a bad system once you fix the flaws in lazy design. It appeals to alot of people who were disillusioned with 3 and 4e and the recurring stupid of the OSR.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 06, 2024, 02:43:04 AMThere were almost no gold coins in the middle ages.

Right. Most would have been Byzantine coins and even then they hoarded them. Which is why I keep suggesting a Silver currency instead. The Silver Piece (Shilling) and Silver Penny (Farthing) should be $100 and $20 equivalents.

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 06, 2024, 07:14:01 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 06, 2024, 02:43:04 AMThere were almost no gold coins in the middle ages.

Right. Most would have been Byzantine coins and even then they hoarded them. Which is why I keep suggesting a Silver currency instead. The Silver Piece (Shilling) and Silver Penny (Farthing) should be $100 and $20 equivalents.

Perhaps, but then you can't have a hoard reminiscent of Smaug's... because silver (and copper) will corrode with time and finding piles of blackened silver doesn't have anywhere near the minds-eye visual appeal of piles of still-glittering gold.

If you're not shooting for medieval realism, you could just say that gold is exceptionally common in your fantasy world, or that gems/rupees could be the coin of the realm (because piles of glittering gems also satisfy that "riches beyond counting" desire).

Heck, you could value everything in "ct" where 1ct is the value of some 1 carot gemstone. They were crafted by the master-jeweler's of the Dwarven Realm, each with the Realm's seal etched into the face facet making them almost impossible to forge and though the Dwarven Realm has long ago fallen, it's nigh-indestructible coinage has endured as the medium of exchange in the Successor Kingdoms.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 06, 2024, 08:47:59 AMHeck, you could value everything in "ct" where 1ct is the value of some 1 carot gemstone.

Raiding the Dragon's hoard

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 04, 2024, 07:02:30 AM
On the other hand, what I've found is that when 1gp=1xp, you end up having characters having tens of thousands of gold pieces, vastly more than anything they need to buy on the equipment list, after relatively short time.

Only if you don't give out XP for the GP equivalent value for magic items. If you did, finding a single +1 sword or five healing potions would be enough to get a fighter to second level. Combine this with the original rule where you get 100xp per hit die of monsters slain and the need for the players to find actual cash disappears.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 06, 2024, 02:43:04 AM
There were almost no gold coins in the middle ages.

Silver and Copper were the coins of the realm.  A handful of Silver coins could finance a good weekend in town.  Silver was valuable currency.

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 06, 2024, 02:43:04 AM
There were almost no gold coins in the middle ages.

Yeah, but D&D is not the middle ages.

And the AD&D coinage system was almost literally the British currency system. 1 gold sovereign = 20 silver shillings. Or heck, even the 1800s US currency, 1 silver dollar = 1 double gold eagle.

Well, part of this is building a more credible D&D economy. Between the Medieval Price List that was compiled years ago and maybe some other sources like HârnMaster, Lion and Dragon, etc.

I think that players should have SOME sort of wealth outside of adventuring to represent the day-to-day expenses they have to pay (otherwise, they're basically shiftless vagabonds). Dungeons & Dragons was predicated on the idea that players weren't your average slob, they were of gentle birth (not necessarily the kind to inherit, though). That was the point of Secondary Skills in 1E/2E AD&D and supposed to be the point of Backgrounds in 5E D&D (not so much in actual play, though).

Quote from: hedgehobbit on March 06, 2024, 10:18:36 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 04, 2024, 07:02:30 AM
On the other hand, what I've found is that when 1gp=1xp, you end up having characters having tens of thousands of gold pieces, vastly more than anything they need to buy on the equipment list, after relatively short time.

Only if you don't give out XP for the GP equivalent value for magic items. If you did, finding a single +1 sword or five healing potions would be enough to get a fighter to second level. Combine this with the original rule where you get 100xp per hit die of monsters slain and the need for the players to find actual cash disappears.

So dump magical items on characters to make up the xp value of gold? I'm not sure that's a better scenario.

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on March 07, 2024, 04:26:13 AM
Well, part of this is building a more credible D&D economy. Between the Medieval Price List that was compiled years ago and maybe some other sources like HârnMaster, Lion and Dragon, etc.

I think that players should have SOME sort of wealth outside of adventuring to represent the day-to-day expenses they have to pay (otherwise, they're basically shiftless vagabonds). Dungeons & Dragons was predicated on the idea that players weren't your average slob, they were of gentle birth (not necessarily the kind to inherit, though). That was the point of Secondary Skills in 1E/2E AD&D and supposed to be the point of Backgrounds in 5E D&D (not so much in actual play, though).

What part of murderhobos are you not getting?