Quote from: HappyDaze on August 19, 2022, 12:08:32 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 19, 2022, 11:44:40 AM
When it comes to this whole "One DnD" bollocks it makes me remember a nightmare scenario I had in my head when 4e came out.

4e tried desperately to be a video game. Even though with the benefit of hindsight we know that it didn't work out that way at the time I though there was a possibility of DnD going completely digital in such a way that WotC would have complete control of how we played the game.

You'd buy a digital copy of the rules, not a PDF you can at least access offline. No you'd only be allowed to interact with DnD through a digital interface that WotC control. No "unapproved" homebrew, no house rules, no lending of physical books or PDFs to your mates. You play DnD in a similar fashion to a video game in that the rules are enforced on a software level. No matter how stupid they are. Everything is account bound. The only way to play the latest edition is through this digital interface that will penalize you for not playing how WotC wants you to. Don't use X Cards? Banned and lose access to DnD. Say a word that can easily be twisted into whatever mentally ill people think is offensive. Just don't be racist my guy also you're banned. Get accused of cultural appropriation because you set your game in an Arabic or Far Eastern place. Banned and lose access to DnD. The end. You will not be able to play DnD without the express permission of WotC. And THOU MUST use ONLY the approved and latest patched version of both the software and the rules. That means no racial bonuses because "ugh, racism" ever. And enforced whatever bullshit rules WotC make in the future.

But of course, you can still buy and play physical versions of the new version of DnD, right? For now. The clue for the future is in the title of this Software. ONE DnD. ONE GAME. No other games allowed. One singular game that is under complete control of WotC. PDFs will be withdrawn from DTRPG and other sites. No more print on demand of older editions (fine for older grognards but what about newer players who want to at least know about how DnD used to be?), C&Ds for sites that host DnD homebrew content that isn't DnD Beyond, I see so much bullshit coming out of this.

At the end of the day, I think the OSR is going to see a big renaissance similar to what happened to 4E. A lot of GMs are going to resent this software forcing them to play DnD in a very particular way. Even if it doesn't quite do that now. It will. That's what always happens when a bit of your power is taken away. They always take more.

Assuming the worst/catastrophizing is a common thinking error. You are aware you've done it before, and you appear to be doing it again.

The best predictor of future actions are present and past actions. WotC have been trying to lock down and control DnD for a while. There's no reason to think they won't do more of that. Based on their past actions. Like most companies, they don't want to compete. They want a monopoly that they control.

Quote from: Effete on August 18, 2022, 07:47:41 PM
Also, "virtuous associations" ... by their standards of virtue, I'm thinking snakes, rats, badgers, and skunks.

[adds worms, leeches, ticks and other parasites to the list...]

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 19, 2022, 11:44:40 AM
When it comes to this whole "One DnD" bollocks it makes me remember a nightmare scenario I had in my head when 4e came out.

4e tried desperately to be a video game. Even though with the benefit of hindsight we know that it didn't work out that way at the time I though there was a possibility of DnD going completely digital in such a way that WotC would have complete control of how we played the game.

You'd buy a digital copy of the rules, not a PDF you can at least access offline. No you'd only be allowed to interact with DnD through a digital interface that WotC control. No "unapproved" homebrew, no house rules, no lending of physical books or PDFs to your mates. You play DnD in a similar fashion to a video game in that the rules are enforced on a software level. No matter how stupid they are. Everything is account bound. The only way to play the latest edition is through this digital interface that will penalize you for not playing how WotC wants you to. Don't use X Cards? Banned and lose access to DnD. Say a word that can easily be twisted into whatever mentally ill people think is offensive. Just don't be racist my guy also you're banned. Get accused of cultural appropriation because you set your game in an Arabic or Far Eastern place. Banned and lose access to DnD. The end. You will not be able to play DnD without the express permission of WotC. And THOU MUST use ONLY the approved and latest patched version of both the software and the rules. That means no racial bonuses because "ugh, racism" ever. And enforced whatever bullshit rules WotC make in the future.

But of course, you can still buy and play physical versions of the new version of DnD, right? For now. The clue for the future is in the title of this Software. ONE DnD. ONE GAME. No other games allowed. One singular game that is under complete control of WotC. PDFs will be withdrawn from DTRPG and other sites. No more print on demand of older editions (fine for older grognards but what about newer players who want to at least know about how DnD used to be?), C&Ds for sites that host DnD homebrew content that isn't DnD Beyond, I see so much bullshit coming out of this.

At the end of the day, I think the OSR is going to see a big renaissance similar to what happened to 4E. A lot of GMs are going to resent this software forcing them to play DnD in a very particular way. Even if it doesn't quite do that now. It will. That's what always happens when a bit of your power is taken away. They always take more.

Reading this post was amusing.
You begin by creating a hypothetical situation, continue to build upon it, and by the end you seem to have convinced yourself it's what's actually happening.

I have a mix of preferences among my players, some prefer e tools, but few if any would quit my game over it, they tend to be pretty fanatical. And there's around 20 of them so I can withstand a good bit of attrition. 😄

Quote from: Effete on August 19, 2022, 12:56:45 PM

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 19, 2022, 11:44:40 AM
When it comes to this whole "One DnD" bollocks it makes me remember a nightmare scenario I had in my head when 4e came out.

4e tried desperately to be a video game. Even though with the benefit of hindsight we know that it didn't work out that way at the time I though there was a possibility of DnD going completely digital in such a way that WotC would have complete control of how we played the game.

You'd buy a digital copy of the rules, not a PDF you can at least access offline. No you'd only be allowed to interact with DnD through a digital interface that WotC control. No "unapproved" homebrew, no house rules, no lending of physical books or PDFs to your mates. You play DnD in a similar fashion to a video game in that the rules are enforced on a software level. No matter how stupid they are. Everything is account bound. The only way to play the latest edition is through this digital interface that will penalize you for not playing how WotC wants you to. Don't use X Cards? Banned and lose access to DnD. Say a word that can easily be twisted into whatever mentally ill people think is offensive. Just don't be racist my guy also you're banned. Get accused of cultural appropriation because you set your game in an Arabic or Far Eastern place. Banned and lose access to DnD. The end. You will not be able to play DnD without the express permission of WotC. And THOU MUST use ONLY the approved and latest patched version of both the software and the rules. That means no racial bonuses because "ugh, racism" ever. And enforced whatever bullshit rules WotC make in the future.

But of course, you can still buy and play physical versions of the new version of DnD, right? For now. The clue for the future is in the title of this Software. ONE DnD. ONE GAME. No other games allowed. One singular game that is under complete control of WotC. PDFs will be withdrawn from DTRPG and other sites. No more print on demand of older editions (fine for older grognards but what about newer players who want to at least know about how DnD used to be?), C&Ds for sites that host DnD homebrew content that isn't DnD Beyond, I see so much bullshit coming out of this.

At the end of the day, I think the OSR is going to see a big renaissance similar to what happened to 4E. A lot of GMs are going to resent this software forcing them to play DnD in a very particular way. Even if it doesn't quite do that now. It will. That's what always happens when a bit of your power is taken away. They always take more.

Reading this post was amusing.
You begin by creating a hypothetical situation, continue to build upon it, and by the end you seem to have convinced yourself it's what's actually happening.

No I said I could see this happening. And it's probably very likely considering WotC's past actions. I used to be told that theorizing  WotC taking away racial bonuses was pessimistic and WotC would never ever do that. Well here we are. I can only speak on my own experiences and what I've seen other players trend towards in the past. So it's hard for me to be optimistic about this tool. Maybe your experiences with other players is different and that has given you a different perspective. Fair enough. We shall see.

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 19, 2022, 01:04:16 PM
No I said I could see this happening. And it's probably very likely considering WotC's past actions. I used to be told that theorizing  WotC taking away racial bonuses was pessimistic and WotC would never ever do that. Well here we are. I can only speak on my own experiences and what I've seen other players trend towards in the past. So it's hard for me to be optimistic about this tool. Maybe your experiences with other players is different and that has given you a different perspective. Fair enough. We shall see.

Well here's the thing... assuming WotC are stupid enough to create such a terrible business model for themselves, you don't have to play it. And if other people do, and enjoy it, who cares? WotC (pronounced "Woked") are certainly infusing their product with garbage politics, and that's causing gamers to slowly shift away, but that has everything to do with them living in the ideological shit-bubble that is Seattle. Other than that, they know how to market products and draw in customers. A purely digital gaming interface bereft of actual ownership rights is a terrible terrible idea. Microsoft/Xbox tried pushing this shit and paid dearly in the last console war.

I agree, consumers have started to soften and we're seeing more restrictive DCRM slip into video gaming, but I highly doubt DnD will move away from tables into a wholly digital space.

Quote from: King Tyranno on August 19, 2022, 12:15:41 PM
The best predictor of future actions are present and past actions. WotC have been trying to lock down and control DnD for a while. There's no reason to think they won't do more of that. Based on their past actions. Like most companies, they don't want to compete. They want a monopoly that they control.

WotC wants to maximize profit. They'd probably love a monopoly, but if that isn't possible (it isn't), then they want to profit from other people doing stuff with D&D.

In general, they've been more open with the property than TSR was. They've backed off from the extreme level of openness that they showed with the OGL and SRD of 3rd edition, but they're still pretty free with licensing, and offering past editions online.

The network effect means that they want to encourage people's campaigns to be closer to compatible with each other. It makes it easier for D&D to spread. However, different people like different things, so they can only push compatibility so far.

Ok, now that I've had time to process this a little more; I think this is simply their announcement that D&D is going to transition to a digital gaming environment in a much bigger way.  They don't see the future of printed hardcovers being as big of a money maker for them, as the online gaming environment.  They can also make rules changes that are implemented throughout the entire player base, much more easily and more universally; if they do so via the online gaming experience platform.

WOTC is going to control how people play D&D; by controlling what D&D is, in the online gaming environment.  If they make it look great; people will play it in mass, regardless.

Greetings!

I'm such an out-of-touch Dinosaur.

How about unplug the fucking gadgets, and stay the hell away from computers entirely?

A table; game dice; miniatures; paper; game books; a group of people gathered around the table;--This is the best recipe for the greatest fun.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on August 19, 2022, 03:40:31 PM
Greetings!

I'm such an out-of-touch Dinosaur.

How about unplug the fucking gadgets, and stay the hell away from computers entirely?

A table; game dice; miniatures; paper; game books; a group of people gathered around the table;--This is the best recipe for the greatest fun.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Hear, hear!!

I always wondered how many neo-Luddites there were out there. We should start our own online forum.

Quote from: SHARK on August 19, 2022, 03:40:31 PM
Greetings!

I'm such an out-of-touch Dinosaur.

How about unplug the fucking gadgets, and stay the hell away from computers entirely?

A table; game dice; miniatures; paper; game books; a group of people gathered around the table;--This is the best recipe for the greatest fun.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

If you want to "stay thr hell away from computers entirely," I'm all for it. Bye.

Quote from: SHARK on August 19, 2022, 03:40:31 PM
Greetings!

I'm such an out-of-touch Dinosaur.

How about unplug the fucking gadgets, and stay the hell away from computers entirely?

A table; game dice; miniatures; paper; game books; a group of people gathered around the table;--This is the best recipe for the greatest fun.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I like having all my books on my iPad at the table.

D&D Beyond is good for keeping track of all my player's 5e characters.

So NO, ain't giving up my devices at the table. And I'm about as old school as you can get, been playing since 1981.

Quote from: thornad on August 19, 2022, 04:22:38 PM

Quote from: SHARK on August 19, 2022, 03:40:31 PM
How about unplug the fucking gadgets, and stay the hell away from computers entirely?

I like having all my books on my iPad at the table.

D&D Beyond is good for keeping track of all my player's 5e characters.

So NO, ain't giving up my devices at the table. And I'm about as old school as you can get, been playing since 1981.

Like any tool, I think computers can be used or misused.

I generally have my laptop out as GM rather than having printed notes. That also lets me easily do things like show pictures or other images. I also prefer keeping track of characters online, whether through D&D Beyond or some other service. Having only paper sheets is a recipe for problems, in my experience.

On the other hand, I have been frustrated by one of my players who insists on referencing her character and rules only through her phone, which is always slower than other players who have printed out their sheets and use spell cards or just the book.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on August 18, 2022, 12:51:31 PM
Anyone watching this announcement of upcoming D&D products?

I've been skeptical of what they would do with Dragonlance, but the little bit they showed looks promising.

https://youtu.be/XGT6kn_DYJM

I was right to be skeptical. What a sh*t show.

Quote from: Effete on August 19, 2022, 12:56:45 PM
Reading this post was amusing.
You begin by creating a hypothetical situation, continue to build upon it, and by the end you seem to have convinced yourself it's what's actually happening.

Not wrong either. The OSR is not as unassailable as people think and the woke are making steady inroads into various publishers now.