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Holy shit, this is a disaster. Any experiences with this, guys?
I am not regretting investing my hobby money elsewhere right now.:p
So you CAN judge a book by its cover!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1040913So you CAN judge a book by its cover!
LOL.:D
Same thing happened with a few of the WotC 4E books I used to own. Print quality's cheap, shocker.
Whereas my old PHB 1st edition is still looking great.:cool: Not so much my Unearthed Arcana 1st edition though...:o
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1040934Whereas my old PHB 1st edition is still looking great.:cool: Not so much my Unearthed Arcana 1st edition though...:o
Agreed, UA print quality was pure and utter crap.
It varies and you are going to see goofs in any print run. First printing of the PHB for example had some binding issues and mine arrived with all the pages warped which suggests they were rushed off the assembly without proper time to dry or cure. Binding on mine is fine though and pressing the books under weights and a fan for a few days flattened them out.
Stuff like this can and will slip past QC. Sometimes simply because it is not obvious at a glance something was wrong. Or because it is THAT ONE BOOK that wasnt checked in a batch or just didnt register. My first printing 5e PHB was printed in Delemont In Switzerland through Hasbro SA.
Still, 5th edition is pretty pricey.
Maybe a little more investement in QC and a little less time and money spent on PR would improve matters.
Used to work in a print shop, looks like the signatures slipped before going to the cutter, it happens... and being automated, it wouldn't have been seen
I love the fact that my 1E PHB (and MM) are still like 80 pound Gutenberg bibles after fully 40 years of regular use.
To be fair it's not just Wotc. Too many rpg companies take the cheap route when printing their rpgs imo. THe first printing of the Pathfinder core and Shadowrun 5 had issues as well.
All the 5th ed. books I purchased had similar issues. They look like someone spilled water on them. At first I thought it was the store, but the marks were too similar.
I'm sure the last thing on Hasbro's mind is having 5th edition books last 30 years:) These hardcovers are made at a price point. They aren't sewn, just glued bindings like a softcover.
I had issues with one of my 5th ed books- can't recall which one, but the binding split open within a day of use. Emailed WoTC and they sent a label to send it back and sent out a new one.
Quote from: Ashakyre;1040959All the 5th ed. books I purchased had similar issues. They look like someone spilled water on them. At first I thought it was the store, but the marks were too similar.
I think that has something to do with the pages absorbing moisture out of the air. Usually goes away when things dry out. Wonder if it's also telling of the paper quality?
My favorite was a D&D 4E book I had (PHB3, if I recall correctly) that had green tape across half the pages, UNDER the ink. So readability wasn't really impacted, but damn it was funny looking.
Likewise, the binding on my 5E PHB has almost completely fallen apart with minimal use, but I honestly don't really care enough about the system anymore to bother contacting them for a replacement.
I work in much more tightly-controlled industry and things can still happen, especially with sample-inspection, instead of 100%. Sometimes you just get unlucky with the maths.
(If you roll 5 d20s, they will still come all all 1s more often than the number of millions of these that WOTC has printed).
The good news is that WOTC Customer Service is excellent in replacing damaged books. You need photos of the damage, and photo of the serial on the first page. Go via the Wizards website.
I also give WOTC credit for pulling the initial print run of MToF collector's edition. Unfortunate, but they did the right thing. Not every publisher will, or even prepares for the possibility that they might have to.
Great for customer care and all that, but still, 3% one star and 6% two and under for reviews on Amazon and most of those I read are about the lack of QC and generally shabby printing/glueing.
https://www.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Wizards/product-reviews/0786965606/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
Read before purchasing.
Or rather, buy a better version of the game and at the same time opt out of WotC's line,
Looks like quality control issue more so than some cheap printing.
It isn't just D&D books. There have been a lot of issues with Magic: the Gathering cards as well. Warped, mis-cut, ink rubbing off, etc.
Well they gave it a good run. I expect bonuses and parachutes will be good. When it's all over they won't miss the Gamecons.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1040975It isn't just D&D books. There have been a lot of issues with Magic: the Gathering cards as well. Warped, mis-cut, ink rubbing off, etc.
WotC has deliberately downgraded the quality of their cards over the last several years, printing expensive cards on cheap stock that lead to those problems even though they know it'll happen. The worst part is probably the horrific foiling process they use that always leads to warped, unusable cards unless a player is lucky enough to seal them away from air and humidity immediately upon opening, and even then success isn't guaranteed. Bad card stock is one of the big reasons I got out of Magic last year, in fact.
The first print run of the PHB for 5e I got was REALLY bad.. Pages falling out etc..
The first print run for the DMG for 5e was bad in that the ink hadn't dried properly and on dark pages, ink was coming off on other pages or on my fingers... ick!
I also had a background book about a year ago (Can't remember which one) for 5e, where the black page on the front inside cover was stuck to the first page, causing a rip across the inner black front page attached to the inside cover....
So yeah, quality control has been poor for printing IMO.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1041028The first print run of the PHB for 5e I got was REALLY bad.. Pages falling out etc..
The first print run for the DMG for 5e was bad in that the ink hadn't dried properly and on dark pages, ink was coming off on other pages or on my fingers... ick!
I also had a background book about a year ago (Can't remember which one) for 5e, where the black page on the front inside cover was stuck to the first page, causing a rip across the inner black front page attached to the inside cover....
So yeah, quality control has been poor for printing IMO.
:eek: That's a disgrace. I would much rather have a few less colour plates and have b/w art if it meant proper binding tbh. Then again, a lot of modern games are image over substance.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1040950Still, 5th edition is pretty pricey.
Maybe a little more investement in QC and a little less time and money spent on PR would improve matters.
30-35$ on amazon from the start for each book. And WOTC likely only gets around 50% of that back per book. depending on their deals with distributors and/or retailers. but the real reason for the price is all that colour art.
Quote from: danskmacabre;1041028The first print run of the PHB for 5e I got was REALLY bad.. Pages falling out etc..
The first print run for the DMG for 5e was bad in that the ink hadn't dried properly and on dark pages, ink was coming off on other pages or on my fingers... ick!
I also had a background book about a year ago (Can't remember which one) for 5e, where the black page on the front inside cover was stuck to the first page, causing a rip across the inner black front page attached to the inside cover....
So yeah, quality control has been poor for printing IMO.
Strange, that wasn't my experience. I was about to ask whether the later print runs were significantly worse in quality. It seems to me that the quality of my first print run 5e books is decent.
Quote from: Chainsaw;1040936Agreed, UA print quality was pure and utter crap.
But the Blumes had to save $.05 per book! /sarc
Quote from: sureshot;1040958To be fair it's not just Wotc. Too many rpg companies take the cheap route when printing their rpgs imo. THe first printing of the Pathfinder core and Shadowrun 5 had issues as well.
That's because the buyers want hardcover and full color and all that other shit on a book printed in runs of a few thousand, but they want to pay the price of books printing ten times as many copies.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1041732But the Blumes had to save $.05 per book! /sarc
Was that the amount? Yes, I see the sarcasm tag, but...
I recall that in one of his Q&A threads-- ENworld or Dragonsfoot-- Gygax mentioned spending extra to have the AD&D books 'textbook' bound. He may have mentioned how much. I do not recall the number, 10¢, 25¢? My MM, PHB, DMG have held up to quite a bit of use. My UA fell apart quickly. TSR was in a financial pinch at that time and the UA was slapped together to generate some quick cash. (It seemed) TSR probably did not have the money to get a better quality binding.
Paizo had problems with the first print run of their Starfinder book. I've seen several PHBs fall apart. Book binding is apparently a forgotten art.
All my 5e books are first print runs are in perfect condition, and I live in the humid southeast US. So *shrug*.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1041707Strange, that wasn't my experience. I was about to ask whether the later print runs were significantly worse in quality. It seems to me that the quality of my first print run 5e books is decent.
At my FLGS with my friends, the PHB first print run was notorious with a majority of 10 books (something like 7 copies) had pages falling out from weak glue. Thankfully WotC had a return program, but yeah, you never really know when your pool of anecdotes wins the booby prize. :)
I think the issues with the first run of the 5E PHB was something related to particular batches. Plenty of people got books with no issues whatsoever, but if you knew someone personally that had a problem, and got yours from the same source, chances are high you'd have a similar issue eventually.
Quote from: Franky;1041754Was that the amount? Yes, I see the sarcasm tag, but...
I recall that in one of his Q&A threads-- ENworld or Dragonsfoot-- Gygax mentioned spending extra to have the AD&D books 'textbook' bound. He may have mentioned how much. I do not recall the number, 10¢, 25¢? My MM, PHB, DMG have held up to quite a bit of use. My UA fell apart quickly. TSR was in a financial pinch at that time and the UA was slapped together to generate some quick cash. (It seemed) TSR probably did not have the money to get a better quality binding.
Paizo had problems with the first print run of their Starfinder book. I've seen several PHBs fall apart. Book binding is apparently a forgotten art.
Gary's statement to me was "...but the Blumes wanted to save five cents per book" so it could have been. And, yeah, the binding on Unearthed Arcana is atrocious, as it is on the later 1e reprints because of that.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1041707Strange, that wasn't my experience. I was about to ask whether the later print runs were significantly worse in quality. It seems to me that the quality of my first print run 5e books is decent.
I have 2 copies of the PHB. (and MM and DMG)
The first one I rushed out and bought as soon as it came out.
It was falling apart withing weeks and I was pretty careful with it.
The second one I got 2nd hand (but still pretty much brand new condition) from a guy that went out and bought the 3 core books, dungeon tiles, 100s of minis and then his players dropped out and he got bored with it all and sold it ALL to me cheap.
The PHB, PHB and MM from whatever batch that was, was fine and still is.
I note that the PHB I got from him was from the first print run too. so the later theory in this thread about some batches being bad is probably correct.
I guess the first PHB was from a "Bad batch" and the 2nd copy from a "Good batch".
Quote from: Opaopajr;1041803At my FLGS with my friends, the PHB first print run was notorious with a majority of 10 books (something like 7 copies) had pages falling out from weak glue. Thankfully WotC had a return program, but yeah, you never really know when your pool of anecdotes wins the booby prize. :)
That was simmilar over on BGG too. An inordinate number of people got faulty books. but to be fair alot of the faults were the sort that would slip past a cursory glance. And a few like the binding issues that might slip past even a harder glance due to just how the pages hold together at that moment.
But still. It was weird. I expect this sort of half-assed work from White Wolf, not WOTC.
Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041788All my 5e books are first print runs are in perfect condition, and I live in the humid southeast US. So *shrug*.
Uruguay is insanely humid, and same here.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041059:eek: That's a disgrace. I would much rather have a few less colour plates and have b/w art if it meant proper binding tbh. Then again, a lot of modern games are image over substance.
Yes it's pretty shocking. Ther books are pretty pricey and I don't mind that, but I DO expect it to be made properly.
It reminded me of in the 80s with early editions of ADnD (particularly Unearthed Arcana) where this sort of poor print quality occurred.