Quote from: Exploderwizard on October 09, 2023, 12:18:38 PM

Quote from: Brad on October 09, 2023, 11:57:40 AM

Quote from: Yitzhak Marxx on October 09, 2023, 11:53:40 AM
Once again their "RPGs" get hollower and more generic, evermore incapable of birthing games with narratives where anything matters at all. These are the people that say/think orcs and drow are black because theyre barbarians or occultist thieves (projecting their implicit beliefs), so it's fitting.

Pretty soon you'll be able to play a wide variety of characters in D&D, just as long as they're non-binary, of indeterminate race, vaguely have some sort of a job that defies categorization, and don't really do anything except protest "The Man," whoever that might be this week.

As official D&D gets blander and less appealing to the majority who are not fucked in the head. the ranks of the OSR every other RPG that's not WotC-developed will swell.

I like my edit better. Regardless, watching WotC fuck themselves in the ass over and over is fascinating in a kind of train-wreck way.

The only issue with WotC burning D&D down to the ground is they can cause permanent damage to the brand.  Try forming up a game of D&D, but when people hear that name they think "social justice, whackadoo" and they pass.  That is what I see coming our way possibly.

For some reason (Vanguard has over 12% stock in Hasbro), Hasbro is going heavy into left wing content when there is strong proof the public despises it.  Look at what Disney did to its brands in two years of unrestrained leftism to Marvel and Star Wars.  Star Wars has permanent brand damage and is unlikely to recover.  No one is buying comics, Marvel is lame.  Mind you comics started back in 2010's going toxic, but they are ignored now. 

As a brand, D&D and MTG are being mismanaged.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on October 09, 2023, 03:10:08 PM
The only issue with WotC burning D&D down to the ground is they can cause permanent damage to the brand.  Try forming up a game of D&D, but when people hear that name they think "social justice, whackadoo" and they pass.  That is what I see coming our way possibly.

We can only hope that the VTT pushes WoTC's stuff into non-RPG, electronic gaming territory. Microsoft can't monetize the brand as it wishes if it remains much like a RPG because only GMs buy stuff and 5e gifted us with horrible preconceptions on GMing and game preparation (I almost gave up trying because my head was full of 5e trash), hence fewer 5e GMs. They will continue to tread on digital gaming territory. Could this detach the WoTC DnD brand from RPGs?

Greetings!

Ahhh, yeah! The fucking "Stupid Train" just doesn't stop with WOTC. And the "Stupid Train" will not stop. Why? Because the people driving the "Stupid Train" are retarded, Woke morons. They RUN EVERYTHING INTO THE GROUND. The OGL fiasco, The Happy Citadel, the trainwreck of continuous changes to the game within the books, removing "Race"--crying about Drow and Orcs, it is a cascade of absolute stupidity. Not merely stupidity, but a corrosive, corrupt ideology. So, none of this stupidity will change. It will only get worse, more extreme, more absurd.

Like Ghostmaker said, enjoy watching WOTC fuck themselves in the ass and burn the game to the ground. Absolutely destroy the brand. YES! Like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. Fascinating! Still, though, as I mentioned previously, none of this is a surprise. From the very beginning when WOTC really embraced being Woke, I knew they were DONE. So, fuck them. Let them burn. Let the NAPALM come down to cleanse them all.

The OSR will grow and gain new strength and prosperity as WOTC fucks themselves.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

This has nothing to do with D&D, for now.

Wizards of the Coast hinted that the Druid and Shaman creature types could be removed from Magic: The Gathering due to real religions which practice druidism and shamanism.

Mark Rosewater, the head designer of Magic: The Gathering since 2003 regularly answers questions about the game on his Tumblr blog. One question about how the Witch creature type was removed due to its association to a real religion led to an answer hinting at more removals in the future.

In reference to the question about using witch as a creature type: "if 'witch' is excluded bc of its significance as a real world religious identifier, why are 'shaman' and 'druid' creature types?" His response was "We are currently examining that exact topic."

Quote from: rgalex on October 09, 2023, 04:25:27 PM
This has nothing to do with D&D, for now.

Wizards of the Coast hinted that the Druid and Shaman creature types could be removed from Magic: The Gathering due to real religions which practice druidism and shamanism.

Mark Rosewater, the head designer of Magic: The Gathering since 2003 regularly answers questions about the game on his Tumblr blog. One question about how the Witch creature type was removed due to its association to a real religion led to an answer hinting at more removals in the future.

In reference to the question about using witch as a creature type: "if 'witch' is excluded bc of its significance as a real world religious identifier, why are 'shaman' and 'druid' creature types?" His response was "We are currently examining that exact topic."

The same people at WotC do the "sensitivity reader" job for all of their content.  Druid is one of the core character classes of the game going back to 1E.  Witch and Shaman are used for a large number of monsters.  We'll be getting it next.

I for one welcome it because I can't wait for the nonsense word the smartest guys in the room come up with, that will make no sense and will be cringe.

Trivia: BECMI humanoid users of magic-user spells were called 'wicca' for a while before being changed to 'wokani.'

I've always wondered whether the change was made to avoid offending Gardnerians or to avoid being associated with them. 

No actual neo-Pagan or shaman would ever feel offended that ANY these words (including Druid) exist in a fantasy game. If anything they'd feel elated about being included and represented. And would only feel offended about them being removed from the game rather than by their inclusion.

This is all part of an endless quest to feel offended on behalf of hypothetical hypersensitive people who don't exist, and are only there to ruin it for the rest in the rare instance that a tiny insignificant portion of them do exist. These are mindless people  tirelessly walking up their own asshole like an ass Ouroboros.

WotC has had a lot of problems with their "creature type" logic, entirely self-inflicted.  They likely wish they had a "magic-user" type instead of say, wizard, and druid.  If they want to print Deathdark Witches Of Zoogmoogfoog, should they be "Human Wizard", "Human Cleric", or something else?

http://www.smileylich.com/mtg/magocracy/Magocracy_C1.html

Here's all the types as of a year ago.

Some of these mean "from a place".  Some mean "this race or species of creature".  Some mean "an entity with these abilities", or "a person with this job", or "a person with this social class".  It's a pretty wild set of things.  Want to be a rebel ninja horse?  It's probably possible somehow, with the correct combination of cards.

So if they unified clerics, wizards, and druids under a new type "spellcaster" or whatever, that wouldn't be really a thing done for politics.  Necessarily, at least, who knows.

Whenever card types come up in conversation, they usually don't impact the way other magic cards are made, or how things happen in D&D.

Quote from: rgalex on October 09, 2023, 04:25:27 PM
This has nothing to do with D&D, for now.

Wizards of the Coast hinted that the Druid and Shaman creature types could be removed from Magic: The Gathering due to real religions which practice druidism and shamanism.

Mark Rosewater, the head designer of Magic: The Gathering since 2003 regularly answers questions about the game on his Tumblr blog. One question about how the Witch creature type was removed due to its association to a real religion led to an answer hinting at more removals in the future.

In reference to the question about using witch as a creature type: "if 'witch' is excluded bc of its significance as a real world religious identifier, why are 'shaman' and 'druid' creature types?" His response was "We are currently examining that exact topic."

What bugs me is that the neo-pagan religions basically just appropriate the terms witch and druid. Wiccan witches have nothing to do with historical witchcraft, ditto for modern druids and actual druids. It's just LARPing/play acting guised as religion

At least shamanism, albeit not the stuff practiced in the West by hippies, has real roots.

Quote from: JeremyR on October 09, 2023, 07:41:31 PM
What bugs me is that the neo-pagan religions basically just appropriate the terms witch and druid.

I mean, the terms weren't being used contemporaneously when those religions started, so it seems like they are fair game.  It's not like you're going to be like, wait, this guy is a druid, is he from a reconstructed faith or is he 1500 years old?

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on October 09, 2023, 12:44:31 PM
I just pray that WotC makes up more new words that mean nothing to replace them.  Maybe like "Melanated Magicians" or MelMags for short or "Natural Naturists" or NatNur's for short.  Just keep putting out nonsense speak.  Please WotC make your products so screwed up language wise that people will have no understanding what you are talking about.

Yes.  Why should they stop at being a little bit ridiculous?  Go all the way, WOTC!!!

Quote from: Bruwulf on October 09, 2023, 12:49:23 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 09, 2023, 12:31:53 PMWhat's next, retiring "wight" or "phylactery" because they're used in Asatru and Judaism? Oh wait, the latter actually happened.

I wouldn't really describe Wight as being some term of art in reconstruction heathenism, but they'll never throw a bone to Asatru and company anyway. They're in the doghouse because too many people associate them with nazis.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on October 09, 2023, 12:31:53 PMI can't really bring myself to care. When was the last time anyone gave a fuck about classes like the witch, druid or shaman?

I like druids.

I like the neo-pagan usage of "wight" as an Anglo-Saxon equivalent of genius loci. I find it really inspirational because English doesn't really have its own word for that sort of thing and I want my fantasy worldbuilding to feel uniquely Anglo-Saxon. House-wight, forge-wight, land-wight, forest-wight, etc. By playing with morphemes you can create distinct compounds for the different meanings of wight: man-wight, wight-folk, wraith-wight, etc.

Quote from: Venka on October 09, 2023, 08:08:09 PM

Quote from: JeremyR on October 09, 2023, 07:41:31 PM
What bugs me is that the neo-pagan religions basically just appropriate the terms witch and druid.

I mean, the terms weren't being used contemporaneously when those religions started, so it seems like they are fair game.  It's not like you're going to be like, wait, this guy is a druid, is he from a reconstructed faith or is he 1500 years old?

At least neo-pagans use it as part of a coherent theology rather than whatever the hell WotC has been using all these years.

Honestly, when I saw this rumour I'm like hooray. WotC, please do this. It will just kick the corpse further into the grave.

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on October 10, 2023, 11:40:27 AM
Honestly, when I saw this rumour I'm like hooray. WotC, please do this. It will just kick the corpse further into the grave.

The sad thing is, they used the old guys who know game theory as consultants because they can't have moderate or conservatives working at WotC's offices spreading their ideology of loving America and being thankful for what we have.  And then after they got success on the game system they ejected everyone they could who was center left and to the right to allow only ideologically pure leftist nut jobs remain.

Current game theory at WotC is to give the player everything and remove all challenges, because that is how leftists want to live.  Human beings do not want to live like that let alone play a game that simulates that.  6E is adding significantly more to player character abilities over balance.  Then toss in leftwing racist views and newspeak and you have an ideological mess of a game that no one will buy let alone play.

We already had this at Disney destroying Star Wars and Marvel, but the corpse of Disney is still kicking.  Disney is selling ESPN but won't let Star Wars go because they spent too much and they don't want to lose it even though its a dog now.  Hasbro will do the same thing with D&D.  Because WotC got Larian to make their next game based on non-woke 5E and Larian is a competent game studio, Baldur's Gate 4 is a success, Hasbro sees dollar signs now and won't let the corpse of D&D go to someone who can resurrect the brand on hopes of more video game success on D&D IP.  Its not D&D IP, its game company skill.  Look at all the other D&D games, they are purified shit because the game studios are shit.