Hi everyone,
I just thought I'd post here for a fresh perspective on a game I keep starting, then shelving, starting, shelving.
I've got this idea for a game which is basically a post-apocalyptic, intelligent animals game. Humans are almost extinct (and rarely encountered), animals are intelligent--human level intelligence, but they don't have common human knowledge, if that makes any sense. Part of the backstory is that an event happened called The Knowing, which is when animals slowly started becoming truly sentient (I know, sapient, sue me :P). They became fully aware of the world around them and realized that the humans had disappeared almost overnight.
I'm a big animal lover (especially cows--they're delicious :)) and I'd really like to make a fun animal PC game, but I just can't come up with a hook for this. What would you do in a game like this? I mean, what would be the default? Patty Porcupine, even an intelligent Patty Porcupine doesn't do much besides wander around, talk to other animals, eat, and poop, and dodging predators all the time would get old (or hunting prey if you played a predator). There will be some depth to the setting as far as seeing how the animals (PC and NPC) make use of all the human technology and devices laying around, and I plan to have an underlying conflict going on between animals who favor instinct and those who favor reason, but I need to have some sort of a driving goal other than survival that can unite a party of adventurous animals.
I do have the germ of an idea starting to grow (which is what got the gears turning this time), that involves focusing more on the instinct/reason conflict, but I'd be interested to hear any thoughts. I'd also like to hear from the other person who might be interested in a game like this (because I can't see there being more than one, maybe two, besides myself). :)
Oh, and I've been calling the game Aware: Roleplaying in the Age of Reason, in case anyone is interested.
Thanks in advance,
Pete
Quote from: pspahnI'd really like to make a fun animal PC game, but I just can't come up with a hook for this.
Well Peter, I had a "similar" idea a long time ago that never developed because I just didn't think I could make it work. Also, mine is a little lighthearted, so might not be what you are looking for, but her is the "hook" I came up with.
I called the game PDog3000, with PDog being Prairie Dogs, and 3000 being the year (roughly). The concept was that most of the above land stuff was wasteland; the prairie dogs survived and thrived, living both underground and in this type of environment.
I did a lot of research on Prairie Dogs (most of which I forgot), basing the game on the way they actually lived, I decided that (like in real life) there were miles and miles of interconnected tunnels underground. There were also huge "cities" at various intervals. The main concept of the game was that the PCs (prairie dogs) would be adventuring above ground (the dungeon crawls/overland adventures) searching for knowledge and artifacts and such, while the role playing aspects (political, social, religious) would take place below ground in the cities and miles of dangerous travel in-between.
Needless to say I had all kinds of silly PC templates ready to go, Fighterdogs, Stealthdocs, Techdogs...you get the idea. :)
So, if you want to develop it, feel free. I'll take a "special thanks" in the credits and a free copy when it's done. ;)
Quote from: pspahnI'm a big animal lover (especially cows--they're delicious :)) and I'd really like to make a fun animal PC game, but I just can't come up with a hook for this. What would you do in a game like this?
If you haven't read
Watership Down, that would be a good source to look at what a game of intelligent but otherwise normal animals could look like.
The basic plot is:
Spoiler
An upcoming disaster is going to destroy a rabbit warren. Those who believe that the disaster is coming band together and set out to found a new warren. Along the way they are menaced by predators, have to endure the elements, and overcome environmental obstacles (e.g. figure out a way to cross another stream). They meet other rabbits, some of whom are friendly, and others of which initially appear friendly but have Dark Secrets. Eventually they establish a warren, only to find that a fascist rabbit called "the General" runs an oppressive rabbit-state nearby, and desires to annex them. The end of the book is the conflict between the two groups of rabbits.
This basic plot - finding a new home - seems like it would work for any sort of animals.
Quote from: hgjsIf you haven't read Watership Down,
:eek: I think finding a gamer who hasn't read Watership Down is like finding a gamer who hasn't read tLotR. ;)
Hi guys,
Thanks for the responses! Grub, that sounds like fun. :) hgjs, I have read Watership and highly recommend it to everyone. Actually, I should have been a bit clearer. You're going to be able to play anything from a mouse to an elephant in the same party in this game, so it needs to have a broader scope. Finding a new home would be a good idea for an adventure, but I need a default setting goal--D&D = adventuring, Star Wars = Rebels vs. Empire, Star Trek = explore new worlds, CoC = investigate the mythos, etc. Lots of other stuff is thrown into the mix in those games, but they all have a strong core foundation. The main problem with this game, as I see it, is that there is no one to kill and no stuff to take.
Pete
Quote from: pspahnHi guys,
Thanks for the responses! Grub, that sounds like fun. :) hgjs, I have read Watership and highly recommend it to everyone. Actually, I should have been a bit clearer. You're going to be able to play anything from a mouse to an elephant in the same party in this game, so it needs to have a broader scope. Finding a new home would be a good idea for an adventure, but I need a default setting goal--D&D = adventuring, Star Wars = Rebels vs. Empire, Star Trek = explore new worlds, CoC = investigate the mythos, etc. Lots of other stuff is thrown into the mix in those games, but they all have a strong core foundation. The main problem with this game, as I see it, is that there is no one to kill and no stuff to take.
Pete
Well, how about the offshoot races of humanity? Perhaps a slave race or half animal half human race developed as a slave race before the fall of humanity? Someone who thinks the legacy of the earth should be theirs, not intelligent animals?
Alternately you could pit the Carnivores against the herbivores, with the omnivores being the neutral race? Cliché, but it works.
OK....this is a little crazy but...as a one pop
What if there is some kind of intergalactic Noah? Some sort of spaceship looking to take pairs of animals to a new world to start over. The PCs have to race against all other animals of their kind.
Needs a lot of development, but there is a seed in there somewhere.
A postapocalyptic intelligent animals game could probably go either one of two ways After the Bomb (what Palladium did after they couldn't use the official Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles characters anymore) or Bunnies and Burrows. :)
Quote from: grubmanNeeds a lot of development, but there is a seed in there somewhere.
That sounds like it would make for a really interesting short story. Warthur, I was thinking more real animals with human-level intelligence than the furries I remember (fondly) from AtB. :)
The germ of an idea I was talking about involves an ongoing conflict between animals who want to make use of human technology and those who do not.
In this setting, intelligent animals live together in certain areas (a forest, a park, a mountain range, swamp, etc.). Not all of these animals have gained The Knowing. Those who have, have reached a sort of agreement not to hunt each other and have formed a sort of democracy where they meet to socialize and discuss events (non-intelligent animals are still subject to be hunted for food).
Most animals view human tech as corruptive and/or destructive and have agreed to shun it. The default for the characters would be animals who are sent to investigate and stop or drive off animals who are making use of human technology. The characters would have the authority to make use of human technology in order to pursue their goals, with the underlying theme that the more they are exposed to human comforts, the more human they start to become.
Again, this is still formative, but it's the closest I've come to something I'm pleased with. It gives characters something to do right from the start, and a built-in reason for them to band together. It also allows for a wide range of animal types--a rat would be good at scouting, a bear good at fighting, etc.
Thoughts?
Pete
Quote from: pspahnThe default for the characters would be animals who are sent to investigate and stop or drive off animals who are making use of human technology.
It's gotta be
apes and monkeys! I mean, we already have the tone from Planet of the Apes, you have a bunch of different species to present different challenges to PCs (Gorilla huge are tough, Chimps are smaller, but smarter, ect.).
Plus, they are the most likely to try and make use of Human stuff since it would be almost built for them from the get go.
The Ape Empire forever!!
You may want to check out an out-of-print series of comics called Albedo Anthropomorphics by Steve Gallacci. It's a great series that has a similar premise to what you are planning, and was done with a great deal of care. There is an RPG that went through two editions that was based around it, but I can't recommend the game in good conscience - your best bet would be to find the comics.
Quote from: jeff37923You may want to check out an out-of-print series of comics called Albedo Anthropomorphics by Steve Gallacci. It's a great series that has a similar premise to what you are planning, and was done with a great deal of care. There is an RPG that went through two editions that was based around it, but I can't recommend the game in good conscience - your best bet would be to find the comics.
There was actually a 3rd edition, but I can't for the life of me remember what system it used...for some reason I want to say Fuzion...but I don't think that is right.
Edit: Here it is: http://www.waynesbooks.com/Albedo.html
Why do you want to get rid of the humans at all? How about have a few human survivors slowly working to rebuild. But now that the animals have become aware, they realize that it's the humans who murdered, tortured and farmed them as well as being the ones responsible for practically destroying the planet. So the animals goal is to ensure that human civilization does not rebuild. Seems like tons of adventure potential there.
Quote from: jeff37923You may want to check out an out-of-print series of comics called Albedo Anthropomorphics by Steve Gallacci. It's a great series that has a similar premise to what you are planning, and was done with a great deal of care. There is an RPG that went through two editions that was based around it, but I can't recommend the game in good conscience - your best bet would be to find the comics.
I followed grub's link; man does that look like furry heaven.
Which, if I follow this thread correctly, is not what the author wants.
I, of course, could be completely wrong...
Quote from: walkerpWhy do you want to get rid of the humans at all? How about have a few human survivors slowly working to rebuild. But now that the animals have become aware, they realize that it's the humans who murdered, tortured and farmed them as well as being the ones responsible for practically destroying the planet. So the animals goal is to ensure that human civilization does not rebuild. Seems like tons of adventure potential there.
I can't speak for Peter, but I'm assuming that if he does that it's not much different from After the Bomb or Gamma World or any other PA game that includes intelligent animals. I assume he wants his game to have a different feel and tone.
The animals would not be physically mutated and the humans would be in a minority. The humans would also be the bad guys. So a lot less wacky than AtB or Gamma World and from the animal's point of view. But they are truly animals, not humans in a mutated animal body.
Quote from: pspahnThat sounds like it would make for a really interesting short story. Warthur, I was thinking more real animals with human-level intelligence than the furries I remember (fondly) from AtB. :)
Sounds like you might want to consider tracking down Bunnies and Burrows (either the original or the GURPS version). That depicted a really interestingly-imagined rabbit civilisation.
Quote from: WarthurSounds like you might want to consider tracking down Bunnies and Burrows (either the original or the GURPS version). That depicted a really interestingly-imagined rabbit civilisation.
IMHO, overpriced and crap for the originals, real eye bleeders. I searched for over a decade before finally getting a copy (Ironically, I got both the 1st ed (typwriter) and 2nd (same content, but typeset) at the same time), spent a small fortune, only to find they sucked. The GURPS version is much better, but still overpriced (since it's consiered a "collectable").
IMHO not worth the effort or $$ IMHO. It's one of those games that are made good by a motivated GM, not by the rules. If you read Watership Down you are already further ahead.
Quote from: walkerpThe animals would not be physically mutated and the humans would be in a minority. The humans would also be the bad guys. So a lot less wacky than AtB or Gamma World and from the animal's point of view. But they are truly animals, not humans in a mutated animal body.
Exactly! No furries (although some of the themes might transfer over). I know intelligent animals are included in other games, but those games are not _about_ intelligent animals, and if they are, the scope is generally a lot smaller than what I'm shooting for. IIRC, Bunnies and Burrows has you playing rabbits, with not much room for anything else. The same goes for (the excellent) Dog's Life about prairie dogs. Tales From the Wood (another excellent game) comes closer to what I want, but it still focuses on basically forest animals.
Walkerp, I do have humans set up as the ultimate threat, but I'd like to keep that from being the default. I want the animals to have animal-related problems to overcome. Some of it is going to be built-in to the instinct/reason conflict, with some animals being shunned for becoming "too human."
Some images I'm picturing -
-animals roaming through abandoned cities
-rats experimenting with science and technology (Nimh)
-forest creatures banding together to drive off a rogue lion
-animal cults arising around one belief system or another
-a bear who learns how to read and becomes a scholar
-technological pitfalls--a monkey learns how to shoot a gun, but knows nothing of gun safety or a horse knows where the good feed is kept, but cannot undo the lock on the barn, or the correct use of a gas heater during a harsh winter
-overcoming instinctive reactions (fear of fire, etc.)
-territorial squabbles (dog packs vs. cats, etc.)
-animals beginning to express themselves through art or poetry (beavers becoming sculptors, racoons learning how to fingerpaint, etc.)
For me, the coolness for a setting like this would be in playing an animal and troubleshooting community problems, but I think it needs more meat than that to sell it.
Pete
Okay, gotcha. Well I have to say that already sounds pretty meaty and cool to me. I'd play a setting like that in a second.
But I think I understand what you are looking for. What about some kind of territorial and resource-based disputes between species (or groups of species)? I don't know how much structure or freedom you wanted for the players. This suggestion limits their choices somewhat. Have you read the GW4 module All Animals Are Created Equal? It's not quite what you are looking for, but it may have some interesting ideas. It all takes place in a zoo and the competitive, intertwining factionalism between the various animal groups. The PCs are not really necessary, except that they come in and tip the balance of power.
Maybe if you create a complex set of relations between all the various animals (like hawks will eat rodents), but still let them be free agents that might not necessarily only hang out with their own kind (because now that they are intelligent, they might start looking beyond). So now a smart and lucky mouse might be able to make friends with a hawk and fly around on his back.
I think you could build plenty of short-term dangers, conflicts and quests based on existing animal relationships. Between this and the eventual contact with humans, is where, I believe, you are looking for something meatier.
Somehow this all reminds me of the classic DC Jack Kirby-created comic book series KAMANDI.
Imagine a similiar premise with a very "Planet of the Apes" vibe to it all ...but not just apes - dogs and other animals have gone all clothes-wearing intelligent ....and there are very few humans left.
- Ed C.
Found the wikipedia page on KAMANDI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamandi
Quote from: James J SkachI followed grub's link; man does that look like furry heaven.
Which, if I follow this thread correctly, is not what the author wants.
I, of course, could be completely wrong...
That's why I couldn't recommend the game in good conscience. The comic book series, however, is Science Fiction Gold and similar in plot to the OP's description.
(As an aside, Steve Gallacci has had run-ins with furries at cons and is squicked out by them.)
Quote from: grubmanIMHO, overpriced and crap for the originals, real eye bleeders. I searched for over a decade before finally getting a copy (Ironically, I got both the 1st ed (typwriter) and 2nd (same content, but typeset) at the same time), spent a small fortune, only to find they sucked. The GURPS version is much better, but still overpriced (since it's consiered a "collectable").
FWIW, GURPS Bunnies and Burrows was written by Steffan O'Sullivan who went on to design Fudge. The whole notion of roleplaying animals was incorporated into the design of Fudge (specifically the scale rules) and there are mentions of playing bunnies throughout the text. If the OP is interested in pinching some design ideas, Fudge is free and OGL.
Back on the topic... the whole concept sounds a bit like Tank Girl to me. It's not the best movie in the world, but it is full of great gaming ideas. And then, of course, there is the comic too.
Quote from: walkerpOkay, gotcha. Well I have to say that already sounds pretty meaty and cool to me. I'd play a setting like that in a second.
Excellent!
Thanks for all the responses and links, guys. Gives me lots to think about.
Pete