Quote from: SettembriniOMFG! That´s such a splendid mock up, I want the real thing ASAP!

Hell Yeah.

Nerdgasm!

(And yes, I'd be willing to contribute to a project to make this thing real)

Dirk is in Berlin, just come over, and we start working. :hehe:

I've read the Rorystone Pass download and found it to be very good. The only real niggle is the apparent disparity of tech levels between settlements less than 50 miles apart. If I were to run with the setting then I'd probably make the default 4-5 with a few exceptions like the high imperialism of the City State and the low, backward technology of regions climbing from the ruins of war. I'd also move away from the faux medieval terminology and try to introduce a more exotic vibe to the nomenclature. "Sir Hubert" really doesn't do anything for me any more. I also think it could do with some half derelict Final Fantasy-style airships, and a few more sci-fi remanants left lying around.

All told, if the download is anything to go by then Wilderlands strikes me as being an extremely worthwhile product. For all the geographical detail it feels very much like a blank canvas upon which the GM can impress his own sense of cohesion. It's exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for, and seems an ideal fit for the kind of "gonzo mature" campaign I'm currently interested in running.

All I need do now is grub around for the cash, which isn't too much of a problem. I can write plenty of scenarios in the meantime with relative confidence that they can slotted in to the setting with minimal effort.

Thanks for the recommendations and info, all.

Quote from: DrewThe only real niggle is the apparent disparity of tech levels between settlements less than 50 miles apart. If I were to run with the setting then I'd probably make the default 4-5 with a few exceptions like the high imperialism of the City State and the low, backward technology of regions climbing from the ruins of war.

There is the old chestnut (at least to Traveller Fan) that Tech Level mean capability as opposed to the place actually not knowing about a thing.

Rob Conley

Well, if you're looking for random opinions...

I purchased the Players Guide and downloaded the free chapter.  It bored me to tears (enough not to buy the boxed set, even on sale for $25).  My problem is that I've been running fantasy in my own setting so long, that published setting s never seems to do it for me.  Why try to memorize someone else’s coolness when I have all my own coolness right there in my head already?

So, IMHO, if you've already "developed" your own setting over the years, and are just in the "must buy something new!" mode (like I was for many years), I would have a problem recommending it.

If you're looking for cool stuff to add to your own setting, it's mostly (what I've read) stuff "ripped off" from other sources (history, mythology, older S&S novels)...so why not rip off stuff from other sources yourself and skip the middle man?

To put this in perspective, I've read dozens of fantasy settings, and haven't really liked or adapted to any of them (except Thunder Rift for basic D&D).  So it isn't surprising this one doesn't float my boat or lead me to higher levels of campaign goodness either.

My advice, download the sample chapter.  If you are absorbed with the coolness get it…if you’re like, “meh, maybe the rest of the product is better?”  You’re most likely just looking to spend your money on SOMETHING…and you might as well spend it elsewhere.

Again, random opinion.

Quote from: estarThere is the old chestnut (at least to Traveller Fan) that Tech Level mean capability as opposed to the place actually not knowing about a thing.

Rob Conley

Tech Level is given as an indicator of general advancement and availability of goods in the download, which I took to mean actual achievement rather than abstract potential. Whatever the case, it's easily fixed.

Quote from: DrewTech Level is given as an indicator of general advancement and availability of goods in the download, which I took to mean actual achievement rather than place of abstract potential. Whatever the case, it's easily fixed.

Yeah, i think it mentions in the boxed set that just because a tech level would disqualify certain items from being made there, merchants and tradesmen can bring them in for sale etc...just normally at a higher price. The tech thing is just an indicator of what the native tradesmen are capable of making themselves, not necessarily what you can find in the marketplaces and shops.

Edit: I think that TL is meant to be another method of accentuating the frontier atmosphere in the wilderlands. Communties are generally not large and are seperated by large swathes of dangerous territory. One thing i would recommend, if you want to promote that frontier atmosphere is to make the hex sizes bigger. The default is 5 miles to a hex, i've made them 8 miles. Quite a few communities are within 15 to 20 miles of each other, lengthen that to 24 to 32 miles and you've got 2 or 3 days travel instead of 1 or 1 and a bit.

Quote from: grubmanWell, if you're looking for random opinions...

I purchased the Players Guide and downloaded the free chapter.  It bored me to tears (enough not to buy the boxed set, even on sale for $25).  My problem is that I've been running fantasy in my own setting so long, that published setting s never seems to do it for me.  Why try to memorize someone else's coolness when I have all my own coolness right there in my head already?

So, IMHO, if you've already "developed" your own setting over the years, and are just in the "must buy something new!" mode (like I was for many years), I would have a problem recommending it.

If you're looking for cool stuff to add to your own setting, it's mostly (what I've read) stuff "ripped off" from other sources (history, mythology, older S&S novels)...so why not rip off stuff from other sources yourself and skip the middle man?

To put this in perspective, I've read dozens of fantasy settings, and haven't really liked or adapted to any of them (except Thunder Rift for basic D&D).  So it isn't surprising this one doesn't float my boat or lead me to higher levels of campaign goodness either.

My advice, download the sample chapter.  If you are absorbed with the coolness get it...if you're like, "meh, maybe the rest of the product is better?"  You're most likely just looking to spend your money on SOMETHING...and you might as well spend it elsewhere.

Again, random opinion.

All opinions are welcome.

My principle criteria for a setting at the moment is something that provides a broad, superstructural framework that I can easily personalise. I'm not interested in using any of my homegrown stuff at the moment-- the thrill of discovery and riffing off of others ideas, hopefully in completely unexpected directions, is one of the big kicks I get from GM'ing. Wilderlands may not be the most original or distinctive setting out there, but I'm cool with that. The organisation and tone seems ripe for insertion of my own distinctive brand fantasy gaming. Neither too restrictive nor too open, it seems like it's got just the right level of detail for me.

Quote from: One Horse Townsizes bigger. The default is 5 miles to a hex, i've made them 8 miles. Quite a few communities are within 15 to 20 miles of each other, lengthen that to 24 to 32 miles and you've got 2 or 3 days travel instead of 1 or 1 and a bit.

My own wilderlands is set to 12.5 miles per hex. This resulted from a mid 80s campaign when the player travelled from city-state to Viridstan. There reaction was "whoa the travel time is way too short. I was expecting a lot longer." My maps were beginning to fray and Judges Guild was out of business. I had a geography minor in college and had access to light tables and various drawing equipment. So when I hand drew my new wilderlands map. I expanded everything using the original villages as major settlement.

here is an example.

http://home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands/localantilmap.jpg

(Note I was a big fan of how harn put things together, except I like more magic in my game than they did)

of course you don't have to be as elaborate just change the scale to 10 mile .. 15 miles however you want it.

I must admit that i chose 8 because the travel speeds were generally multiples of 8! At least until terrain was taken into account.

A fantasy version of Traveller was done by a 3rd party in the first half of the 80's. It was called Aldreth.  Here's a link to a recent PDF re-issue: http://home.btconnect.com/hughfoster/Traveller/AldrethA4.pdf

But man, that Wanderer boxed set looks awesome.

Quote from: One Horse Town... One thing i would recommend, if you want to promote that frontier atmosphere is to make the hex sizes bigger. The default is 5 miles to a hex, i've made them 8 miles...

I'd recommend switching the scale to one hex = 5 leagues (15 miles).  I believe that this was the original plan.

It makes the Wilderlands about the size of western Europe + north Africa.

Quote from: grubmanWell, if you're looking for random opinions...

I purchased the Players Guide and downloaded the free chapter.  It bored me to tears (enough not to buy the boxed set, even on sale for $25).  My problem is that I've been running fantasy in my own setting so long, that published setting s never seems to do it for me.  Why try to memorize someone else's coolness when I have all my own coolness right there in my head already?

So, IMHO, if you've already "developed" your own setting over the years, and are just in the "must buy something new!" mode (like I was for many years), I would have a problem recommending it.

If you're looking for cool stuff to add to your own setting, it's mostly (what I've read) stuff "ripped off" from other sources (history, mythology, older S&S novels)...so why not rip off stuff from other sources yourself and skip the middle man?

To put this in perspective, I've read dozens of fantasy settings, and haven't really liked or adapted to any of them (except Thunder Rift for basic D&D).  So it isn't surprising this one doesn't float my boat or lead me to higher levels of campaign goodness either.

My advice, download the sample chapter.  If you are absorbed with the coolness get it...if you're like, "meh, maybe the rest of the product is better?"  You're most likely just looking to spend your money on SOMETHING...and you might as well spend it elsewhere.

Again, random opinion.

That's pretty much how I felt about it as well.  I think it's more fun to build my own setting with random tables than to read about one that someone else has randomly created.  Just like I would rather roll up my own subsector in Traveller than use the Spinward Marches.  You could pretty easily build your very own Wilderlands by getting their various books with the random tables like Village Book 1, etc.  YMMV

Quote from: grubmanSo, IMHO, if you've already "developed" your own setting over the years, and are just in the "must buy something new!" mode (like I was for many years), I would have a problem recommending it.

The original was little more than lines of stats, a few 3 to 5 line paragraphs, and lots of the charts. The point of the product isn't that it is the next Lord of the Rings. The point is to save you time prepping a campaign. If it doesn't do that for you then it may not be the product for you.

A lot of people didn't spend years developing a setting. Some people are not as good as others in keeping a details of a campaign background straight. Or are just plain swamped. Or they are looking for something new and unlike 20, 10 years ago they now have a family and a full time job.

Quote from: grubmanIf you're looking for cool stuff to add to your own setting, it's mostly (what I've read) stuff "ripped off" from other sources (history, mythology, older S&S novels)...

It all a ripoff. We all stand on the shoulders of those who told the legends before us. By using the basic tropes of 70s fantasy we make the product more useful to those with specific campaign because a lot of what we do now has it origins in that style of fantasy. So take the Wilderlands and add whatever lens your fantasy style is. For example my style is more Tolkien than S & S and has no sci-fi elements.

Quote from: grubmanso why not rip off stuff from other sources yourself and skip the middle man?

Because you have do the work. It is hard coming up with dozens of entries. I know because the 2 1/2 maps I worked on had a third of the villages entires for the entire wilderlands (They were the maps that part of Bledsaw' initial campaign area) I worked over a month coming up with 300+ villages and citadels each unique each possibly dovetailing into its neighbors.

Somebody else worked on the lair, another person on the ruins and islands. We had over a half dozen people working on various maps. Maybe a person could duplicate our effort for a home grown. But I tell I ran the wilderlands over 20 years. 15 years of that was with a reboot with a larger scale and redrawn maps. I STILL don't have the level of detail the original had.

This write up is the heart of my version of CSIO. I have a ton more info elsewhere.

http://home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands/csland.html

if you look at the end you will see a settlements and notable places. That where I supposed to write up things like original and frankly I never had the time to get around to it. Doesn't mean I didn't do a lot of work. It just all in detail that supported whatever game I was running .

And you know how it is with a old campaign, there are tons of details still in your head that you never write down. So while on my CSIO doc there are a lot of place location entries I kinda know what there already so I can wing it if a player goes (Just have to fracking remember to write down what I tell them for consistency).

The boxed set takes care of that pesky detail work. It allows you focus on the mid-level detail that are fun and easier to do. For example what are elves in your Wilderland or homebrew. Mine are this

http://home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands/cselves.html

yours may be different. Maybe whip a different type of thieves like this

http://home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands/beggarsguild.html

and their rivals a traditional thieves guild.

http://home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands/brotherhoodlion.html

Those writeups are fun, have more bang for the buck for your current campaign then slogging through with 300+ villages and location writeups that the players may never get too.

And finally the kicker. As much as I am putting down writing up 300+ villages for a homebrew. If for some crazy reason you managed to have done that then you have a very very potent tool for your game. It is easy for you to give "permission" for players to explore.

Many GMs I know tense up when players go "off track" into the white map. Sometime they get surly about it, other times it OK but the results are less than stellar as they have different skills winging it. But if you had that list of all these village and where they are. The process becomes a lot more fun. The player sense it in their DM and appreciate the freedom.



Rob Conley