Hey there! Just wondering if there is any interest in a straight up wild west type of RPG anymore. No magic, or weird cross genre types of games, just good old spaghetti western style shoot 'em up action. I've been on a western kick lately, watching Hell on Wheels, My Name is Nobody, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, etc., and was just wondering if the genre is too blasé for folks these days. I remember that Boot Hill saw at least two or three revisions, and I know of at least one Indie RPG that was circulating several years ago. Are there any others that I should know about / check out?
If you don't mind a game that is extremely slow running in combat (no turns everything is tracked simultaneously in 1/10th seconds) you could go with Kenzer's monstrosity Aces & Eights
Well, there is GURPS Old West which could be used with most any system. Though if you did use GURPS, you could get REALLY into the grit with the right supplements if you desired. :) Here's a link to a fun western horror one-shot if you're interested in one, written up for both GURPS and Call of Cthulhu: https://1shotadventures.com/old-west-horror-the-black-mine-of-teihiihan/ (links at the bottom; there are a bunch of other neat ones on that site too, though they vary in genre)
Aside from that I don't really know of any outside of Deadlands for example using Savage Worlds, or its original system. I think I may have heard of a new one that is "Powered by the Apocalypse" ala Apocalypse World? Not sure of the name as PbtA is not really my thing but someone else might know more.
Unfortunately I've never successfully conned a group into playing in a Western campaign (neither historical nor 'weird west'), but I've always wanted to. Best of luck!
No love for Boot Hill?
Quote from: Antiquation!;1118256Here's a link to a fun western horror one-shot if you're interested in one, written up for both GURPS and Call of Cthulhu: https://1shotadventures.com/old-west-horror-the-black-mine-of-teihiihan/
If Lovecraftian wild west is your thing, there's also Chaosium's own version of old west Cthulhu, Down Darker Trails.
Quote from: Dimitrios;1118260No love for Boot Hill?
If Lovecraftian wild west is your thing, there's also Chaosium's own version of old west Cthulhu, Down Darker Trails.
I didn't know that existed, nice!
I was at Boot Hill in Tombstone Arizona on New Years Eve (12/31/2019). I definitely think there's interest in Western RPGs.
From a player perspective, I think that a lot of the resistance comes from the potential lethality of the setting. You can be the greatest gunfighter in the land, but some 8-year-old kid can shoot you in the back and you're dead. The haunted gunfighter works for Jim in Blazing Saddles, but you don't REALLY want ultra-paranoid players that tactically assault every town and murder every inhabitant for their own safety.
I've been thinking a lot about how to do a Western (and other genres that are informed by film) and I'm pretty sure that you need to set up a system that requires getting someone 'dead to rights'. This would be some number of successes that allows someone to make a 'deathblow' against someone - if they don't have you 'dead to rights' they're going to miss/the damage isn't significant. From a narrative point of view, if the players are caught 'dead to rights' they have to have a way out that doesn't involve getting shot. In the Western, shooting someone that you have 'dead to rights' is usually murder - so at that point they're getting hauled in/left in the desert to die.
Making sure players buy into the setting conceits is important to make the game work.
I have played a little Aces and Eights, and I think it's too cumbersome and VERY deadly. My first character took a shotgun blast at point-blank-range and died immediately.
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1118266Making sure players buy into the setting conceits is important to make the game work.
Although it can be grimly fun when the players end up with the Federal cavalry and every bounty hunter within 200 miles gunning for them after they forget that they're not playing D&D and come crashing into town shooting everything in sight.:D
Honestly, just about any system can do a basic Western. Horse riding? Check. Guns? Check.
Maybe you would want some specialized rules for a quickdraw contest, but that is pretty easy to house rule.
I had fun with a brief Western game that was done using Feng Shui first edition. Most of the gun-fu worked out of the box, we used a ninja template for the Apaches, and my character was a regular townie deputy built using Everyman Hero.
If you're looking to do specific Western tropes, you might want to look out for systems with rules that fit them.
For instance, if you want a High Noon style showdowns to be a big deal, you definitely want fastdraw rules, and maybe a more fleshed-out minigame style approach. Maybe steal some of the iajutsu duel rules from Legend of the Five Rings? (I've never actually seen a formal quickdraw duel take place in a Western RPG game. As soon as combat started all the player characters just had their guns out immediately.)
Do you want a big bar fight? Look at systems that do mook fights.
Do you want a Zane Grey style epic horse race? Then look for a system with good chase rules, and steal them.
Heck, maybe your players want to have a little romance on the side. Not sure which game you go for there.
DCC has a new 'weird west' setting coming out... Dark Trails (https://goodman-games.com/blog/2019/05/28/back-dcc-dark-trails-on-kickstarter/).
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One of its inspirations is the old Tex Arcana comic from Heavy Metal.
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I'd most likely want to tone down the gonzo... have 'normal' games so when the weird stuff did arrive it would seem properly weird... though some spaghetti westerns get pretty weird without invoking anything supernatural.
Thank you all for the input and the suggestions. I'm currently working on my own version using the 4C Expanded rules I released a few months ago. I'm adjusting some of the rules here and there, and adding several new rules to fit with the genre (Fast Draw/Dueling rules especially). The way I envision it, the characters will be larger than life, sort of like super heroes. They can take more punishment than regular folk, where a bullet from a .44 would take down a shop keeper, but it would take two or three hits to take out one of the PCs.
I'm considering whether or not to include a specific setting, like a town or something where the characters can have a base to work from. I'd like to keep it as free flowing as possible where the characters can travel around at will, but I figure having a place for the characters to fall back to would be handy. I suppose I can include one as an option for folks to use.
Any suggestions for other things that should be included are welcome!
Quote from: Dimitrios;1118260No love for Boot Hill?
Boot Hill was the first RPG for Westerns and is always my first thought. It has pretty good rules for gunfights.
QuoteIf Lovecraftian wild west is your thing, there's also Chaosium's own version of old west Cthulhu, Down Darker Trails.
I had not heard of that. Thanks!
Quote from: Jamfke;1118310I'm considering whether or not to include a specific setting, like a town or something where the characters can have a base to work from. I'd like to keep it as free flowing as possible where the characters can travel around at will, but I figure having a place for the characters to fall back to would be handy. I suppose I can include one as an option for folks to use.
I see three options for a town.
1. Have the campaign focused on a single area with the town as either the focal point (like Dodge City in the Gunsmoke TV series) or make it the nearest place with a saloon and town stuff to do (like Carson City in Bonanza). In this case you want a fairly detailed town.
2. Create a bit more than minimal detail for the town which gets further developed and filled in during play. If the players choose to spend time there lots more detail is gradually added. If not, you don't waste a lot of effort on stuff that never sees play.
3. Do the bare minimum of detail on the town like you would if it was a town where the players were going to stop for a drink before moving on.
Quote from: Jamfke;1118237Hey there! Just wondering if there is any interest in a straight up wild west type of RPG anymore. No magic, or weird cross genre types of games, just good old spaghetti western style shoot 'em up action. I've been on a western kick lately, watching Hell on Wheels, My Name is Nobody, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, etc., and was just wondering if the genre is too blasé for folks these days. I remember that Boot Hill saw at least two or three revisions, and I know of at least one Indie RPG that was circulating several years ago. Are there any others that I should know about / check out?
Theres an older thread on this.
Personal favourites are...
Boot Hill: Originally more a tactical minis game than an RPG, by 2nd ed it got more fleshed out. Havent seen 3rd ed yet.
Legends of the Untamed West: Part of the "Legends of" series of The Fantasy Trip compatible games. In this case adapting it for a western. As of last check there was one solo module for it. The rules are up for free.
TSR's Marvel Superheroes: Interestingly enough this can easily handle a wild west setting and there is a module set in the wild west for it.
Far West: This is an interesting western from Spain. Recently saw a revival.
Others are...
Gunslinger: A tactical board game thats pretty good.
Rolemaster: Outlaw
Pretty sure theres one for Hero, but cant find it at the moment. Wild West Hero?
And there is I believe a Gurps Wild West.
Dave Bezio's Shotguns & Saddles is free and worth a look. Bezio also wrote Wild West Cinema. My own Blood & Bullets is free. Go Fer Yer Gun! isn't free but it is inexpensive. I also like Coyote Trail, by Precis Intermedia.
Quote from: Omega;1118344Far West: This is an interesting western from Spain. Recently saw a revival.
That one looks good. There "is" another Far West, of course...
We try not to talk about that one. :rolleyes:
Far West:Juego del Rol is not a bad little system. But I've only hand translated a tiny portion. I've never seen a translation of the original to english.
I just finished a nearly 4-year long campaign of Aces & Eights that was purely historical, no magic, no alt timelines, no fantasy or undead or anything. It was amazing.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1119258I just finished a nearly 4-year long campaign of Aces & Eights that was purely historical, no magic, no alt timelines, no fantasy or undead or anything. It was amazing.
I was going to add... I've *never* played or run a Deadlands game without magic. But I *reaaaaaaally* want to. My favorite aspect of Deadlands is simply that it's a western and the Savage Worlds system is excellent for Spaghetti Western action.
I am going with character templates in the Star Wars D6 style. I might rearrange it a bit to put the skills under each Trait, but here is what I have so far:
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Edit: That image was from a cell phone screen cap, sorry. Here's one from my computer:
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I don't think any combat system works well for gun combat. I think systems where many shootouts would tend to be determined by how many times you can get shot and keep shooting back, are not doing it right. While some people may sometimes be able to keep fighting after getting shot, it should be a big deal, and the way to win a gunfight should place heavy emphasis on managing situations so that you avoid getting shot. Shoot first, hit first, take cover, peek carefully from around cover, wait around a corner, maneuver to get a firepower advantage, use tricks that make sense, etc.
Quote from: Jamfke;1118237Hey there! Just wondering if there is any interest in a straight up wild west type of RPG anymore. No magic, or weird cross genre types of games, just good old spaghetti western style shoot 'em up action. I've been on a western kick lately, watching Hell on Wheels, My Name is Nobody, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, etc., and was just wondering if the genre is too blasé for folks these days. I remember that Boot Hill saw at least two or three revisions, and I know of at least one Indie RPG that was circulating several years ago. Are there any others that I should know about / check out?
I am working (currently in the backburner) on such a game, but I seem to remember something very much like a spaghetti western somewhere, sadly my memory isn't what it used to be and I'm not sure if I do remember it or the name of it if it does exist. :(
Quote from: Skarg;1119358I don't think any combat system works well for gun combat. I think systems where many shootouts would tend to be determined by how many times you can get shot and keep shooting back, are not doing it right. While some people may sometimes be able to keep fighting after getting shot, it should be a big deal, and the way to win a gunfight should place heavy emphasis on managing situations so that you avoid getting shot. Shoot first, hit first, take cover, peek carefully from around cover, wait around a corner, maneuver to get a firepower advantage, use tricks that make sense, etc.
I think Cyberpunk2020 (Interlock) does gun combat just right. It's possible to get killed in one shot, frighteningly so. If you're not using cover, you're going to likely die. Most adjudication/clarification for the FNFF system is pretty common-sense and fast paced.
But I think its the exception that proves your norm. It hits this sweet spot of being believable yet has cinematic aspects of it that keep you from getting bogged down in minutiea.
Edit: Interlock Wild West? HELLL yeah that would be fun. My PC in Cyberpunk used customized S&W .454 Thunderchief revolvers so I could pretend to be a cowboy in the dark future. No reason it couldn't work just fine in the wild west.
Quote from: tenbones;1119364I think Cyberpunk2020 (Interlock) does gun combat just right. It's possible to get killed in one shot, frighteningly so. If you're not using cover, you're going to likely die. Most adjudication/clarification for the FNFF system is pretty common-sense and fast paced.
Interesting. Which edition would you suggest I look at?
Quote from: Skarg;1119373Interesting. Which edition would you suggest I look at?
CP2020 is it's own standalone. But the CPRed quickstart is out (but it's like $30). CPRed will be dropping this year... with the pushback of CP2077 videogame to September... it might be pushed back as well, I don't know.
Check out Cyberpunk 2020, the chassis is solid and easy to export without all the cyberpunk stuff straight into a western game. For lethal gun-play, and ease of use? It's an excellent choice for wild-west action imo.
Straight western RPGs:
Coyote Trail (https://www.pigames.net/store/default.php?cPath=59)
Gunslingers & Gamblers (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/12224/Gunslingers-and-Gamblers) or Gunslingers & Gamblers: Streamline Edition
(https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/20466/Gunslingers-and-Gamblers-Streamline-Edition)Under Western Skies: 2D6 Adventure on America's Frontier (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/254798/Under-Western-Skies-2D6-Adventure-on-Americas-Frontier)
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119363I am working (currently in the backburner) on such a game, but I seem to remember something very much like a spaghetti western somewhere, sadly my memory isn't what it used to be and I'm not sure if I do remember it or the name of it if it does exist. :(
I don't remember the name either, but I remember one of our Twitter mutuals was working on a Western using PbtA as an engine, and posted a test copy in a Twitter DM. But it's been a while and I don't access to my Twitter conversations anymore anyways so don't know.
Quote from: VisionStorm;1119383I don't remember the name either, but I remember one of our Twitter mutuals was working on a Western using PbtA as an engine, and posted a test copy in a Twitter DM. But it's been a while and I don't access to my Twitter conversations anymore anyways so don't know.
Yes, I have the test pdf, helped him a bit with a few grammar and the mexican bandito description XD Cowboy World If not mistaken.
But that's not the one I'm talking about.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119385Yes, I have the test pdf, helped him a bit with a few grammar and the mexican bandito description XD Cowboy World If not mistaken.
But that's not the one I'm talking about.
Yeah, that's the one I was thinking about. Found it looking up PbtA Wild West. It's the only one I remember coming up somewhat recently.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/267094
Quote from: VisionStorm;1119387Yeah, that's the one I was thinking about. Found it looking up PbtA Wild West. It's the only one I remember coming up somewhat recently.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/267094
The game I think I remember is older than that, if I'm correct it's about 2 years since I saw it somewhere. But Tenbones sugestion of using CP202 (the FNFF) is solid, best gunfight rules I know of, you just need to do the work with the weapon stats.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1119388The game I think I remember is older than that, if I'm correct it's about 2 years since I saw it somewhere. But Tenbones sugestion of using CP202 (the FNFF) is solid, best gunfight rules I know of, you just need to do the work with the weapon stats.
Oh yeah, CP2020/Interlock is a solid system all around. Easy to use and easy to learn, and very effective. And the rules include penalties for wounded characters, which should give Westerns a gritty feel, where characters need to avoid getting shot or they might be out of the fight even if they do survive.
Currently playing in a hybrid 2nd/3rd edition Boot Hill game and it is very fun. My ability to be slightly unhinged/sociopathic in an rpg really works in Boot Hill, or at least in this adventure as there is always some annoyance that needs guns pulled on it. That said I want to run the DCC variant, Dark Trails now.
Quote from: tenbones;1119374CP2020 is it's own standalone. But the CPRed quickstart is out (but it's like $30). CPRed will be dropping this year... with the pushback of CP2077 videogame to September... it might be pushed back as well, I don't know.
Check out Cyberpunk 2020, the chassis is solid and easy to export without all the cyberpunk stuff straight into a western game. For lethal gun-play, and ease of use? It's an excellent choice for wild-west action imo.
Ok, I asked since Googling, I'm seeing Cyberpunk 2020 2nd edition, and since I know it so little I was thinking maybe there are different versions of the combat system.
If I recall correctly.
Cyberpunk 2013 was 1st ed
Cyberpunk 2020 is 2nd ed
Wayyyy back in the late 90s I bounce around with Steve Gallacci, the creator of Albedo the idea of doing a western RPG using the Albedo system. At the time Steve was much more interested in Civil War historical minis wargames. Johnny Reb? Not sure. But Albedo's system was bery well suited to a gritty more realistic gunfight style.
I just remembered the name of the game that claims to emulate Spaghetti Western: Wild West Cinema (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/79964/Wild-West-Cinema-rulebook)
Yeah CP1e is okay. CP2020 is what you want. All you're really looking for is the task-resolution - All the skills for doing the wild-west stuff is basically what Nomads in the game already do - minus the tech-related crap.
And caliber of weaponry is standardized based on the rounds of ammunition. There is a 3rd Party supplement from Edge of the Sword "Compendium of Modern Firearms" (https://www.amazon.com/Compendium-Modern-Firearms-Edge-Sword/dp/0937279234) that has nearly every firearm imaginable up to its printing - fully statted (across multiple game systems: Call of Cthulhu, Hero System, d20, Twilight 2000), with TONS of real-world data, but no specific wild-west era revolvers. But there's enough ballistic and systems information to *easily* extrapolate with very little effort damage/accuracy values for whatever your needs are.
Really just depends on how "gritty" you wanna make it. Do you want sub-systems for dueling? Gambling? etc. If not - basic FNFF from Interlock has you covered for combat and skills.
Quote from: bat;1119455Currently playing in a hybrid 2nd/3rd edition Boot Hill game and it is very fun. My ability to be slightly unhinged/sociopathic in an rpg really works in Boot Hill, or at least in this adventure as there is always some annoyance that needs guns pulled on it. That said I want to run the DCC variant, Dark Trails now.
I wish the Dark Trails people would have sent me a review copy!
Came across a few other obscure new Western RPGs.
Devils Gulch: For BRP which picked up while on sale and havent had a chance to look at yet.
Devils Staircase: This one uses a deck of playing cards instead of dice.
Hexslinger - For Cartoon Action Hour: Reads a bit like that you'd get if you did Shadowrun as a Western. Is a nod to Bravestar of course.
Sundown: A western setting for Call of Cthulhu.
Westwater: I had the playtest. But never heard if it ever went to print.
There is also Aces High, a supernatural western setting for BRP which can easily be played strictly historical.
Link: Welcome to Aces High RPG (http://www.aceshighrpg.co.uk/)
I'm currently running a GURPS Old West game. It's pretty silly. GURPS does okay with gunfights, between the short turns and the high damage for guns the players do learn to take cover and aim.
Quote from: 3rik;1122826There is also Aces High, a supernatural western setting for BRP which can easily be played strictly historical.
Link: Welcome to Aces High RPG (http://www.aceshighrpg.co.uk/)
Missed that one. Think have or had it once.
Another one that can do a wild west sort of theme fairly well is TSR's Masque of the Red Death setting. PCs are not as sturdy as they are in D&D and guns are relatively dangerous, especially if can get off more than one shot in a round. Would not be too hard to use it to play a non-supernatural wild west setting either.
Quote from: Omega;1122839Missed that one. Think have or had it once.
There's two books for it, nowadays available print-on-demand through DTRPG:
Aces High - Chaosium | Basic Roleplaying | DriveThruRPG.com (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/82068/Aces-High)
Aces High New Mexico - Chaosium | Basic Roleplaying | DriveThruRPG.com (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/132473/Aces-High-New-Mexico)
I ran a Wild West campaign where I merged the Tombstone rules (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/156833/Tombstone-Alpha-Version) with Aces and Eights (I really liked the alternate history scenario they made, and a lot of their supplements (like the horse generator), but combat was way too slow for me and my players, even though I absolutely love the concept of the shot clock overlay and utilizing playing cards), and later added some aspects from Coyote Trail. Ran it for a fair amount of time, and had a lot of fun with it.
If I was ever to do another Wild West game in the future though, I'd probably just stick with Coyote Trail by itself. It's really solid.
Digging into my work on my own write up. I am working on native tribes in the southwest at the moment and plan to include six of the most prominent in the area; Apache, Cheyenne, Navajo, Sioux, Paiute and Comanche. How much detail do you think would be sufficient? The game is leaning heavily toward a Spaghetti Western cinematic style, so I don't think I need to get too deep into the historical end, but I don't want them to be too stereotypical either. So far I'm keeping the tribal info down to a couple of paragraphs and then a stat block for warrior types from each tribe.
Quote from: Jamfke;1123572Digging into my work on my own write up. I am working on native tribes in the southwest at the moment and plan to include six of the most prominent in the area; Apache, Cheyenne, Navajo, Sioux, Paiute and Comanche. How much detail do you think would be sufficient? The game is leaning heavily toward a Spaghetti Western cinematic style, so I don't think I need to get too deep into the historical end, but I don't want them to be too stereotypical either. So far I'm keeping the tribal info down to a couple of paragraphs and then a stat block for warrior types from each tribe.
Problem is... some of those tribes are portrayed sterotypically because that is how they tended to act. Even other tribes caught into this as this or that tribe developed a rep, good, or more often, bad.
If you are going the gunslinger route then one option is to pretty much not depict any tribes and just have a catchall native that can be the same things as a normal gunslinger. It fits the theme and removes the problem of trying to accomodate subject matter that the SJW cultists are atteacted to like chainsaw wielding sharks to blood.
Came across another one. Down Darker Trails for what looks like 7e Call of Cthulhu. Anyone seen this yet? Im a little leery if picking up books from Chaosium when they toss around buzzwords like "culturally sensitive". Though looks like it also either ties into or draws from something called Pulp Cthulhu?
I played in an Aces & Eights game a few years ago. The GM did an amazing job researching the history of the area, and runs a good game. I thought the mechanics were a bit clunky. Ultimately I decided I wasn't very interested in that genre.