Why the hostility to Monte Cook?

cranebump · November 06, 2015, 03:11:23 PM

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;863151Math that doesn't add up, producing weak or overpowered features.
Overpowered mechanics (like the executioner effect granting an easy instant death effect to everyone).
Missing class features.
And the biggie for me, prestige classes, feats, spells, and items that sound cool but turn out to be redundant with existing mechanics. It was bad enough that you started to feel, "This book would work better as a flavor guide giving you advice on how to make existing game elements sound cooler without actually changing how they work."

Sounds like a very loud echo of the basic problems with 3.5.:-)

S'mon · November 06, 2015, 05:29:21 PM

Quote from: Bunch;863304Well if you include diseases I'm pretty sure european explorers killed more Native Americans than intra tribe warfare etc. At least if you believe the estimates on Gun Germs And Steel Europeans knocked out 95-98% of the Native Americans just shaking hands.

I don't really think we can take credit for our germs.

Bren · November 06, 2015, 06:23:44 PM

Quote from: S'mon;863318I don't really think we can take credit for our germs.

Lord Jeffrey Amherst, commander of British forces in North America during the French and Indian War (1756-'63) discussed with a subordinate his plan to send infected blankets to hostile tribes. That he considered doing it appears certain. We don't know if he actually put the plan into effect, or if so with what result. We do know that a supply of smallpox-infected blankets was available, since the disease had broken out at Fort Pitt some weeks previously. We also know that the following spring smallpox was reported to be raging among the Indians in the vicinity.

There seems to be evidence that infected blankets were intentionally given to the Indians. How much effect it had is unclear.

So there are people who maybe get to take "credit."

Bunch · November 06, 2015, 08:44:40 PM

Quote from: S'mon;863318I don't really think we can take credit for our germs.

The initial epidemics i would say were accidental. Later they became a planned resource in biological warfare.

flyingcircus · November 06, 2015, 09:45:10 PM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;862780Correction, I don't hate the man. Nor do I hate the product. I hate his attitude. And I find certain things he does annoying, like having to brand everything he released (until recently, Numenera and The Strange being the ones I remember) with "Monte Cook Presents", as if they actual creators of their stuff wouldn't sell otherwise.

His discomfort to work with Mike Mearls, because he at one time had been Mr. Meals 'boss'. His reasoning for not liking 3.5 (and his complete lack of understanding of how CCGs work.)

These things bother me. As a person, I think he's a cool guy and he's done some decent things for D&D. And the reason I dislike 3.x is due to being burnt out on it, not because of anything any one developer did to the system.

What? Who the fuck cares about CCG's!

Justin Alexander · November 07, 2015, 12:28:43 AM

Quote from: Dimitrios;863309My favorite example of irrational Monte Cook hate: Shortly after 5e was announced, while he was still onboard the design team, he made some offhand remark in a blog post about "passive perception". I'm not exactly sure what the issue was (I think it's that he didn't properly acknowledge the pioneering role of 4e or something), but people were still losing their shit over it years later!

This is the article. The nerd rage was because he didn't assume that everyone reading the article was familiar with 4E and, therefore, explained the "passive perception" terminology before demonstrating how it would be handled in the hypothetical version of 5E that Mearls had introduced the week before. This "obviously" meant he had never heard of it before and was reinventing the wheel.

It's as if someone at Ford in 1918 started a discussion about their new braking system by mentioning that there were four wheels on a standard automobile and then people lost their mind because Ford was trying to claim that they had invented the wheel.

Majus · November 07, 2015, 04:31:36 AM

I read the article Justin linked above and then, though I know not why I did it, I googled to find the outrage and found this.

I think some folks just like getting angry. I literally cannot comprehend the rage people feel about things like this.

Frey · November 07, 2015, 12:42:58 PM

MCWoD is an amazing game, plus the perfect start for any Rifts d20 game.

RPGPundit · November 08, 2015, 01:44:51 AM

I haven't got anything against him, contrary to what some have claimed.

Tetsubo · November 08, 2015, 05:14:16 AM

Quote from: Frey;863434MCWoD is an amazing game, plus the perfect start for any Rifts d20 game.

I picked up a Rifts D20 game online once. Is it any good? Did they make any sense out of MDC?

TristramEvans · November 08, 2015, 10:04:20 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;863208There were rumours that he wasn't happy working under a former employee, who didn't care about 'his' vision of D&D. Accurate? True? I dunno. But unlike most people who left WoTC, he didn't get fired, he quit. And then went to Paizo. Why? What was wrong at WoTC that he had to walk out?

Too many questions, not enough answers that put him in a good light. You wanna hero worship him? Fine. My? I wonder why.

I'm not sure how not enjoying working at some place and deciding to work at another place puts anyone "in a bad light". Say he was uncomfortable working under a former employee? Say he didnt feel WoTC cared about "his vision" for D&D? So what? By what standard are those moral failings or what obligation did he have to stick around in a job he wasnt enjoying when there were other options? You're post frankly seems absolutely bizarre to me.

TristramEvans · November 08, 2015, 10:05:59 AM

Quote from: Brand55;863228I have his d20 version of the World of Darkness. It's a very nice book and I'm happy to own it, but I once saw it summed up thusly:

"You want to play an Awakened? Sucks to be you."
"You want to play a Demon? Sucks to be you."
"You want to play a Werewolf? Sucks to be you."
"You want to play a Vampire? You should have fun."
"You want to play a Mage? Congratulations, you win the game."

And I'd have to say that assessment is pretty spot-on. I haven't read all of MC's stuff, but balance in that game was pretty much nonexistent. Thankfully his work with the Cypher System seems much better from my (admittedly limited) experience with it.

Did Changelings exist in his WoD?

Brand55 · November 08, 2015, 12:27:23 PM

Quote from: TristramEvans;863542Did Changelings exist in his WoD?

It was not one of the five playable racial classes he created for the game, but someone could create a version of them without contradicting the canon.

Xavier Onassiss · November 09, 2015, 10:40:39 PM

Hostility is a strong word, and I don't "hate" Monte Cook, but ever since he wrote this worthless drivel I've paid him no attention whatsoever.

Dude's got problems.

Nexus · November 09, 2015, 10:52:11 PM

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;863708Hostility is a strong word, and I don't "hate" Monte Cook, but ever since he wrote this worthless drivel I've paid him no attention whatsoever.

Dude's got problems.

Well, that does explain some things about Cypher but overall it didn't strike mas that bad though I don't agree with it.