Quote from: Tetsubo;863022Prior to his decision to go narrative I was a really big fan. I just don't have any interest in narrative games. I was completely unaware that he was a 'contentious' figure in any way.

That is totally fair. Being less interested in someone's work or less of a fan because they go in a direction you don't like is understandable. It is the animosity some people harbor that I just don't get.

Quote from: One Horse Town;862869I overheard him admitting he was a Satanist once. He also kicked a puppy.

It may not be a big deal to you, I have little regard for anyone like that.

While I know nothing about him personally, I was not a fan of Arcana Unearthed and the Book of Vile Darkness, a lot of the material felt power gamery, if you can call that a term. By the time PHBII was released I got the feeling that power creep was more marketing strategy and not poor design.

In short any dislike I may have is really relegated to books published.

Quote from: Sommerjon;862866...Couple minutes later same guy is introduced and is all happy happy joy joy about gaming, gamers and the biz.
Monte Cook

Just because you love something doesn't mean you don't have your pet peeves or issues. This happens frequently in all "walks of life". When  you engage your hobby as a profession, some of the ugly spots get uglier. Professionals always vent about troubles to each other.

As a person in the green room, you're supposed to just keep your mouth shut about it. What happens in the green room stays in the green room. If you were a professional, this would have been self-explanatory.

Also, in real life many professionals are required to put on "game faces". It's part of the landscape of social intelligence. Be pleasant in public and people will want to be around you. It's professionalism 101.

You want to attribute a "secret true belief that lies beneath the veneer of lies" from a green room rant? I have ascertained Monty's desires based on his actions. He has been writing and designing RPGs for the bulk of his adult professional life. He attended conventions frequently, interacted with his fans online, blogged, pod-casted and participated in multitudes of interviews. He has been involved up to his eyeballs. That speaks volumes to me about what he loves. You would have to be an obstinate fool to not see his love of this hobby and industry.

You on the other hand had a taste of "the inside" for 5 minutes and could barely contain your puerile excitement to "tell us all the secrets." Worse, you want to use that as anecdotal evidence of Monty's "arrogance".

I dub this Green Room-gate. I FLAME THEE!

Quote from: One Horse Town;862869I overheard him admitting he was a Satanist once. He also kicked a puppy.

See? OHT get's it. :-D

I met Monty Cook on several occasions at conventions like GAMA. He was nice, professional and enthusiastic. I've also had the pleasure of corresponding with him via email. Again, very nice guy.

Of course,my thoughts are also all anecdotal. He could in fact be the Anti-Christ reborn using RPGs as the vector to bring about The End of Days. I guess only Monty knows for sure...

My first reaction to the Monte-hate over the Native-American flap, and the Numenara-problematic-monster-thing was "Oh here we go..."

I don't ascribe hostility towards Monte from these sectors of the gaming-realm as being *anything* having to do with Monte. While there are very few game-designers that I know of that I can't really criticize, Monte, whether you like his games or not, has proven his bonafides over and over. And personally his game-design track record with me, due to my own personal tastes is spotty at best.

I'm a little tired of this assumption of ideological purity on either side of the gaming fence. TBP's Recreational Outragers act like they are half-pissed simply because they presumed that Monte was "one of them" and "should have known better!"

I could be wrong - I don't recall Monte making some proclamation that there is One True Way to do anything. I'd sit and argue all day long about his assertions of 3.x's strengths and weakness, but I wouldn't diss him as a person because of it.

Ranting about gamers isn't damning, IMO. Hell, I've been gaming for over 30 yrs, I love gaming and I occasionally rant about gamers, games, etc. Some of the posts and threads around here amount to gamers ranting about gamers.

Quote from: Nexus;863076Ranting about gamers isn't damning, IMO. Hell, I've been gaming for over 30 yrs, I love gaming and I occasionally rant about gamers, games, etc. Some of the posts and threads around here amount to gamers ranting about gamers.

An overheard conversation at a convention isn't something I put a lot of stock in, but agree that if it were true as described, nodding to a rant about gamers isn't exactly damning. If anything complaining about gamers is possibly a sign your a true gamer yourself. I've been in the hobby most of my life and half the conversations I've heard involve complaints about other gamers.

Quote from: Certified;863040While I know nothing about him personally, I was not a fan of Arcana Unearthed and the Book of Vile Darkness...

Yes, Book of Vile Darkness is a great example of Monte's "great ideas, slipshod implementation" reputation.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;863085An overheard conversation at a convention isn't something I put a lot of stock in, but agree that if it were true as described, nodding to a rant about gamers isn't exactly damning. If anything complaining about gamers is possibly a sign your a true gamer yourself. I've been in the hobby most of my life and half the conversations I've heard involve complaints about other gamers.

Nodding along and not making eye contact until you can slip away is practically SOP for rants at Cons.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;863101Yes, Book of Vile Darkness is a great example of Monte's "great ideas, slipshod implementation" reputation.

What's wrong with it?

I am not a fan of Monte's work, but I have only heard good things about the dude from people at cons. D20 and Numenera don't work for me, but certainly he's brought great joy and tremendous fun to many gamers. Just not me, but that's no reason for me to pillory him.

Quote from: trechriron;863047Just because you love something doesn't mean you don't have your pet peeves or issues. This happens frequently in all "walks of life". When  you engage your hobby as a profession, some of the ugly spots get uglier. Professionals always vent about troubles to each other.

As a person in the green room, you're supposed to just keep your mouth shut about it. What happens in the green room stays in the green room. If you were a professional, this would have been self-explanatory.

Also, in real life many professionals are required to put on "game faces". It's part of the landscape of social intelligence. Be pleasant in public and people will want to be around you. It's professionalism 101.

You want to attribute a "secret true belief that lies beneath the veneer of lies" from a green room rant? I have ascertained Monty's desires based on his actions. He has been writing and designing RPGs for the bulk of his adult professional life. He attended conventions frequently, interacted with his fans online, blogged, pod-casted and participated in multitudes of interviews. He has been involved up to his eyeballs. That speaks volumes to me about what he loves. You would have to be an obstinate fool to not see his love of this hobby and industry.

You on the other hand had a taste of "the inside" for 5 minutes and could barely contain your puerile excitement to "tell us all the secrets." Worse, you want to use that as anecdotal evidence of Monty's "arrogance".

I dub this Green Room-gate. I FLAME THEE!

I was at the glorified info desk the green room was merely on the other side of the curtain.  Sorry me no guarding, no lack of professionalism on my part that was fully on Cooke.

Valiant effort on making me the guilty party though, it got a number of other lemmings to fall right in step with ya.  Kudos to you.

I believe OHT got it in one, calling any recent fracas an issue of perceived insincere genuflection.

Quote from: Nexus;863109What's wrong with it?

Math that doesn't add up, producing weak or overpowered features.
Overpowered mechanics (like the executioner effect granting an easy instant death effect to everyone).
Missing class features.
And the biggie for me, prestige classes, feats, spells, and items that sound cool but turn out to be redundant with existing mechanics. It was bad enough that you started to feel, "This book would work better as a flavor guide giving you advice on how to make existing game elements sound cooler without actually changing how they work."

Quote from: Sommerjon;863138I was at the glorified info desk the green room was merely on the other side of the curtain.  Sorry me no guarding, no lack of professionalism on my part that was fully on Cooke.

Valiant effort on making me the guilty party though, it got a number of other lemmings to fall right in step with ya.  Kudos to you.

He had a legitimate point about anyone badmouthing others when they think no one is listening that you could have addressed. Instead, you went with 'Nuh-uh, you're the jerk, and any criticism is negated because that's just lemmings.' Good job.

Quote from: Sommerjon;863138I was at the glorified info desk the green room was merely on the other side of the curtain...

You make my point even further. I'm the lemming? Look, I appreciate your naivete, and how the world should be filled with idealists who never lose their temper or become aggrieved with the people they serve. It's a nice place. I wander there sometimes myself for a respite from the harsh truths of reality.

Read the Wizard of Oz. So you found out the wizard was a human. Boo hoo.

I'm defending Monty Cook because I believe he is a good guy and I think his ranting about fans is an acceptable venting mechanism for professionals. Also, industry folks don't rant about ALL fans/gamers. Just the ones who get so riled up about a game that they are on the threshold of committing violence, or go on crusades to ruin the target of their wrath.

It's OK Honey Boo Boo, Monty wasn't angry with you.