Quote from: GameDaddy;862812It's a solid game system. Kudos to him for his hard work.

Yeah, the guy was making stuff I liked years ago and, though I suspect Numenera is not my sort of thing, he's still making stuff that looks new and interesting.

Quote from: aspiringlich;862737He's making a living doing what they all want to be making a living doing, but aren't.

Not quite.  It's that he's making a living doing what they all think they could be doing If Only They Had The Insider Connections or the breaks went a different way.  Something of the same syndrome that has half of America convinced to the marrow of their bones that they could coach the local professional sports teams better than the incumbents.

But only in part.  As much as any other factor, it's sheer longevity.  Cook's not only been an active RPG writer for nearly three decades, he's been pretty high profile for most of it.  Of course he'll have attracted a relatively high percentage of ranters, and he would have had no matter what he said, how he said it, what he wrote, or who he banged.  We do seem to love "hating" people, on whatever pretexts we devise, at the drop of a d12.

I don't get the hate toward Monte or his company. He is basically a nice guy who has been around longer than most in the industry and made some great stuff in that time. Not everyone is going to like the same thing so I can understand someone not being interested in his work but I don't get how one goes from that to frothing dislike.

Is the hatred against him on rpg.net based on design issues or is it related to the whole Strange thing that happened last year.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;862847...or is it related to the whole Strange thing that happened last year.

What Strange thing?

I know about the RPG of course. Are we talking about that?, ...or is it some other strange thing that happened?

Quote from: GameDaddy;862848What Strange thing?

I know about the RPG of course. Are we talking about that?, ...or is it some other strange thing that happened?

They had a recursion in the Strange setting that was based on Native American stuff and some folks felt it was mishandled. There was a petition to get it removed and ultimate Shanna Germain did reach out to people for discussion and they ended up revising the content. But some of the pushback against it was particularly sharp.

There was also that thing about the succubus-monster in Numenara or whatever-the-fuck-it's-called which was apparently misogynist, or something. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth on TBP about it a few years ago.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;862847I don't get the hate toward Monte or his company. He is basically a nice guy who has been around longer than most in the industry and made some great stuff in that time. Not everyone is going to like the same thing so I can understand someone not being interested in his work but I don't get how one goes from that to frothing dislike.

Is the hatred against him on rpg.net based on design issues or is it related to the whole Strange thing that happened last year.

Dan nailed it.  Part of the hatred against Monte is similar to part of the hatred against Zak.  They're both tapping hot, blonde, unapologetic, sex-positive feminists, and everyone in the relationship is happy.

That's not supposed to happen in awfulpurpleland.

Quote from: GameDaddy;862812I met Monty a few times at GenCon. He's a nice guy. A bit reserved, introverted like many of us. Regular gamer.

Never did get a holier than thou gamer attitude vibe from him, and I can tell he really likes playing RPG games. All kinds...

He played D&D alot, and liked it, and rewrote a good chunk of it for 3e.

Then he formed his own game company and made is own RPG with sophisticated mechanics and a very detailed background, Numenera, and he's making a decent living with that now. It's a solid game system. Kudos to him for his hard work.

I've seen him at the end of conventions as well. Monday morning. Takes a lot out of him. He looks wiped out. sometimes tired too.  He takes a bit of time off, ...and then comes back renewed with tons of new ideas. And always an interesting new game or supplement, or a new twist on an old one.

I think I'd like playing in one of his games, and I don't mind GMing games he has designed like Numenera, and 3e D&D. They seem like natural extensions, and a solid rpg in each case. My players have fun trying out new ideas in gaming worlds he has designed, using mechanics he designed as well. We have fun, and that's what counts.

Not sure what everyone else on the Internet has their knickers all twisted up about, but twisted they are, and whatever they are doing their balls are being squeezed so hard they are turning blue, and they are crying all over these other forums...

Monte is welcome here, and at my gaming table anytime. He also helped save D&D you know, I won't ever forget that.

I volunteered at one of them conventions back in the early 00s.
So here I am standing on one side of this curtained off area, an area used by the speakers as the green room.  I hear one person doing a lot of ranting about gaming and gamers and the biz and someone agreeing with him.  Couple minutes later same guy is introduced and is all happy happy joy joy about gaming, gamers and the biz.
Monte Cook

I overheard him admitting he was a Satanist once. He also kicked a puppy.

Cook comes across as a bit self-important. Unfortunately, that seems to be a common trait among RPG authors.

Quote from: yojimbouk;862871Unfortunately, that seems to be a common trait among RPG fans.

Corrected for emphasis.

I don't HATE Monte Cook.  I'm sure he's a nice guy, living the dream and making a decent living at it.

I do think he's overrated as a game designer, being the principle behind "rules mastery" and "false choices."  But that's completely a matter of taste and opinion.  And its worth what you just paid for it.

Tom

Quote from: Blusponge;862879I don't HATE Monte Cook.  I'm sure he's a nice guy, living the dream and making a decent living at it.

I do think he's overrated as a game designer, being the principle behind "rules mastery" and "false choices."  But that's completely a matter of taste and opinion.  And its worth what you just paid for it.

Tom

That's pretty much the extent of the 'hate' around my local area.  He's not Gary Gygax, and he comes off in in his writing as if he is.

I don't think anyone here (in my town and who dislikes him) hates him on a personal level, rather on what he's written about his choices.

Now, here's something I'd like to point out, it IS a bit hypocritical (for me) because they also are the same people who LOVE, LOVE, LOVE D&D 3.x and it's derivatives, namely Pathfinder, which is built along his conceits and concepts.  It's been very, very hard for me to bite my tongue to point it out.  But I don't simply because they'll either look at me as if I'm stupid and I 'miss the point' or will immediately get defensive.

Once I realized that Mr. Cook was all about 'System Mastery' as opposed to Tactical or just Roleplaying, and his love of Gygaxian Magic, I started seeing why I was getting burnt out on 3.x.

But personally?  I hope Mr. Cook has a very long life, makes as many games as he could ever want, enjoys his time with his (apparently, I've never heard of her or seen her until this thread) lovely wife, and gets to avoid the idiocy of getting his products doxed by some screaming idiots on the internet.

He has my sincere sympathies for what happened with the Natives supplement.

Anybody who's really popular is going to be a target of criticism, simply based on preferences.  If you don't like something that's popular and are critical of it, that will manifest itself.

One thing though since it's getting confused--Monte was married to Sue Cook (Sue Weinlein) , then they got divorced a few years back.  I don't think they're married, but I believe Shanna Germain is his current girlfriend.

I do get a little confused by some nits being picked though--what's wrong with Monte Cook Games or Monte Cook Presents?  It certainly doesn't seem like he's trying to hide any of the co-authors, and to be quite frank, Monte Cook was the reason Numenera was so popular in its Kickstarter.  There are definitely people following him based on the name alone, so it makes perfect marketing sense.  And I never got a sense that he was angry or jealous or dismissive of Mike Mearls?  

And he genuinely seems like a nicer guy in print/on-line.  Compared to the strong opinions of people in print/on the Internet like Gary Gygax, Sean K Reynolds, John Wick, etc., I'm surprised people are targeting HIM as "self-important" and egotistical.  If Monte's considered conceited, how low is the bar for this?

Also I'm really impressed by his professionalism--you've got Kickstarters like Exalted and Far West and others lagging behind, and his stuff is pretty much on time and of high quality and usually aesthetically pleasing.  His decades in the business really have contributed to a very good work ethic.

my only real issue with him is that he said that after his take on the World of Darkness (which I liked quite a bit) he said he was retiring from writing RPGs, and was going to focus on fiction.

Frankly I have a much bigger issue with John Wick. (the rpg writer, not the hitman)