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Why the D&D and D20 hate?

Started by Vellorian, September 12, 2006, 09:56:53 AM

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gleichman

#30
September 12, 2006, 04:21:32 PM
Quote from: mythusmageAnd combat is a malconceived mess. I say stuff static initiative and the crap they call attacks of opportunity. I've been in fights, video games don't even come close to accurately modeling them. It's bad Gamist, and that I hate.

Put me in charge of D&D 4e and you'd see a much better RPG.

No thinks, AOO was one of the cool things in 4e.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Akrasia

#31
September 12, 2006, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: gleichmanNo thinks, AOO was one of the cool things in 4e.

Okay, you definitely do not get my vote to be in charge of 4e!  ;)
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
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gleichman

#32
September 12, 2006, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: AkrasiaOkay, you definitely do not get my vote to be in charge of 4e!  ;)

Rats!

And I already had this 180 pape book to slide in it's place too. :)
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

JamesV

#33
September 12, 2006, 04:33:48 PM
I don't mind playing it, running it on the other hand, invovles more work than I'm willing to put in.
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arminius

#34
September 12, 2006, 04:36:21 PM
So what's the deal with AoO? I know the abbreviation means "Attacks of Opportunity". I also have a vague idea that they're a bit like the use of Zones of Control and Opportunity Fire in wargames--a way to keep people from taking advantage of the sequence of play (nonsimultaneous execution of movement and combat) to zip around while ignoring people who "in real life" would threaten them as they move.

In short it sounds like a good idea to me, so what's the problem?

Bear in mind that I haven't played anything in the D&D family of games since the 80's.

Spike

#35
September 12, 2006, 04:40:31 PM
Elliot:

I think the issue is less that they exist, but rather the means by which you use them.  A great deal of confusion, of wailing and gnashing of teeth arises when teh topic comes up because it is so damned confusing to a great number of people. Then there comes up the topic of 'builds', like the slightly infamous 'spiked chain' build, designed solely to exploit AoO's.


Or course, it could just be that some people are whiney bitches and don't like having to face the fact that AoO's were meant to solve a real issue, for better or worse.:D
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Mystery Man

#36
September 12, 2006, 04:47:03 PM
I like D20. I like the vancian spell system. I like hit points.

What's wrong with me?
 

Vellorian

#37
September 12, 2006, 04:48:05 PM
Quote from: Myst3ry M@nI like D20. I like the vancian spell system. I like hit points.

What's wrong with me?

Based on your picture, I think you put your head in a vice and you're probably going to die of lung cancer.  ;)
Ian Vellore
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -- Patrick Henry

Mystery Man

#38
September 12, 2006, 04:48:14 PM
p.s. Oh, and I like AoO's too.
 

Mystery Man

#39
September 12, 2006, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: VellorianBased on your picture, I think you put your head in a vice and you're probably going to die of lung cancer.  ;)


pssst...that's not really me!

:p
 

ColonelHardisson

#40
September 12, 2006, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: SpikeElliot:

I think the issue is less that they exist, but rather the means by which you use them.  A great deal of confusion, of wailing and gnashing of teeth arises when teh topic comes up because it is so damned confusing to a great number of people. Then there comes up the topic of 'builds', like the slightly infamous 'spiked chain' build, designed solely to exploit AoO's.


Or course, it could just be that some people are whiney bitches and don't like having to face the fact that AoO's were meant to solve a real issue, for better or worse.:D

You're right on all counts, in my estimation. AoO's are a lot easier to grasp if one uses minis or whatever to show where characters and critters are in relation to each other. I think a lot of confusion is caused by not being able to really "see" the spacial relationships between combatants.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.

blakkie

#41
September 12, 2006, 04:52:51 PM
Quote from: flyingmiceYou understand I wasn't running AD&D, I was running an extensively house-ruled game founded in AD&D. For all it's mess - and it was a mess - AD&D was exceedingly easy to house-rule. House-ruling 3.x is like prying open a clam with yout fingernails.
Sorry for the confusion, that wasn't aimed in your direction or talking about your experience. :)

Even rewriting large tracks of AD&D it was hard as hell to make it worse.  With 3e was tuned much more, and so when you try to pull it apart you actually degrade it. So it was easier to house rule in AD&D in the same way it is easier to renovate a rundown, rotten shack than a well built house.  You feel a whole lot less loss when you just toss a little diesel fuel and a match on the shack. ;)
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Mcrow

#42
September 12, 2006, 04:52:52 PM
yeah, get rid of AoO. I really hate those.

Zachary The First

#43
September 12, 2006, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: Myst3ry M@nI like D20. I like the vancian spell system. I like hit points.

What's wrong with me?

Well, clearly, you're not fit for public society.  :p

(not that many of us are)
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ColonelHardisson

#44
September 12, 2006, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: Myst3ry [emailM@n]pssst...that[/email]'s not really me!

:p

Coincidentally, I just happened to see the movie it's from recently. Can't recall the title. It was a short.
"Illegitimis non carborundum." - General Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell

4e definitely has an Old School feel. If you disagree, cool. I won\'t throw any hyperbole out to prove the point.
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