Why is it that a disproportionate number of game designers, and gaming groups/GMs, seem to feel the need to rely on "angst" as their primary expression of emotion?

I mean, let's face it, angst is the most adolescent of all emotional states. Its what teenagers use as a substitute to real emotional expression. They've never actually DONE anything worth expressing/don't yet know how to communicate with other human beings/don't really understand what it means to be a human being yet, etc etc. so instead they react to being filled up with hormones by blowing up and showing a petty stupid rage or getting all depressed in an exagerrated melodramatic way, your kind of "woe is me" attitude.

The inability of most game designers to express real emotions or more complex concepts is what leads me to say that people who are game designers are NOT authors (not good ones, anyways), but beyond that, I'm wondering if its a geek thing here... you rarely if ever find a "Henry V" moment or an "I, Claudius" moment, or a "Farewell to Arms" moment, or even a "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" moment.  Hell, you don't even find a "cold case" moment, and that's about as cheap an emotional stunt as you can get.

Is it that these people, the writers and the gamemasters too, are simply incapable of expressing anything more profound than gore, angst, or cliches?
Or is it that they lack certain essential prerequisites to be capable of doing so? If so, what are they?
Or is it that they are capable of but don't want to? If so, why?

RPGPundit

Hey, Pundit -

The late nineties called.  They want their rant back.

-O

Quote from: RPGPunditI mean, let's face it, angst is the most adolescent of all emotional states. Its what teenagers use as a substitute to real emotional expression.

This is a hobby for teenagers.

Quote from: RPGPunditWhy is it that a disproportionate number of game designers, and gaming groups/GMs, seem to feel the need to rely on "angst" as their primary expression of emotion?

I don't percieve this as happening.  There's not any more angst out there than anything else.  It's rather fallen out of fashion, these days its all about cinematic action or metagame mechanics near as I can tell.

Obryn is right, 1997 wants its rant back.  Even Vampire is noticeably less angsty these days.

Quote from: MaddmanI don't percieve this as happening.  There's not any more angst out there than anything else.  It's rather fallen out of fashion, these days its all about cinematic action or metagame mechanics near as I can tell.

Obryn is right, 1997 wants its rant back.  Even Vampire is noticeably less angsty these days.

I've got to agree here. I haven't looked at the new Vampire - the subject has no appeal for me - but the NWoD base game is surprisingly free from angst, as well as using much MUCH better mechanics, enough for me to actually like the game. OWoD was a mess.

-clash

Quote from: GabrielThis is a hobby for teenagers.

Nope. Teenagers play computer games, the RPG demographic seems to be progressively getting older. Quite a lot of old-timers and not much new recruitment. Just take a look at some internet boards, nostalgia-mongering is getting increasingly popular.

I think the reason for all that "angst" is that it resonates with a lot of the RPG protagonists. In most games you're an outsider, sometimes feared, sometimes revered. But you're not in line with most of society. Often a dark destiny shines its gloomy rays upon your face (see, I'm getting into the spirit). And compared to literary heroes, there seems to be no end in sight. You're not on one defining quest, but on one seemingly pointless adventure after another, always with death looming above you. It's rather easy to play a character that way. Either that, or cheerful abandon.

Apart from that, I blame Drizzt's monologues. Worst piece of angsty game fiction ever.

Quote from: SosthenesNope. Teenagers play computer games, the RPG demographic seems to be progressively getting older. Quite a lot of old-timers and not much new recruitment. Just take a look at some internet boards, nostalgia-mongering is getting increasingly popular.

I think the reason for all that "angst" is that it resonates with a lot of the RPG protagonists. In most games you're an outsider, sometimes feared, sometimes revered. But you're not in line with most of society. Often a dark destiny shines its gloomy rays upon your face (see, I'm getting into the spirit). And compared to literary heroes, there seems to be no end in sight. You're not on one defining quest, but on one seemingly pointless adventure after another, always with death looming above you. It's rather easy to play a character that way. Either that, or cheerful abandon.

Apart from that, I blame Drizzt's monologues. Worst piece of angsty game fiction ever.

Those are the hardcore players.

Just about everyone starts this hobby in their early teens.  Then they quit somewhere between 16 and 18.  It neatly coincides with when kids in the US can get their driver's licenses and their options for entertainment expand.  That's the bulk of the hobby, kids who start at 12, and con mom into buying a few books before they quit playing altogether at 16.

The people in their 30s (and I definitely include myself) are an aberration.  The polls which are done from time to time are very skewed toward only getting the older "lifetime" players' view of things.  Plus, there are a lot of over 30 people because that's the age lifetime players would be if they started in the age where RPGs were exponentially more popular than they are now.  We're more or less the same as people who kept on playing Pog after the bubble burst.

I started when I was 21, so I'm already an anomaly...

-clash

Quote from: GabrielThis is a hobby for teenagers.

And yet, the games that are more directed at teenagers tend to be angst-free (granted, also emotion-free in general other than the "wow, cool, roxxors" effect of showing off the latest big monster/mecha/class/whatever); whereas the games that are supposedly for "Mature" gamers are filled with adolescent pap.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAnd yet, the games that are more directed at teenagers tend to be angst-free (granted, also emotion-free in general other than the "wow, cool, roxxors" effect of showing off the latest big monster/mecha/class/whatever); whereas the games that are supposedly for "Mature" gamers are filled with adolescent pap.

RPGPundit

Unfortunately, a lot of what is considered 'adult' in theme or content is actually what a teenager considers to be adult in theme or content, not what actually is. This is something that is rife in society as a whole. Adult normally equates to violence, sex & drugs; things that appeal to those who are not legally allowed to view and/or partake in such activities. The real term that is missing IMO is mature.

Quote from: RPGPunditWhy is it that a disproportionate number of game designers, and gaming groups/GMs, seem to feel the need to rely on "angst" as their primary expression of emotion?

I'd wager that there's less angst in all of the RPG products published in 2005 combined, than in your average Nisarg "why do the Swine hate me so?" rant.

KoOS

Quote from: MaddmanI don't percieve this as happening.  There's not any more angst out there than anything else.  It's rather fallen out of fashion, these days its all about cinematic action or metagame mechanics near as I can tell.

Obryn is right, 1997 wants its rant back.  Even Vampire is noticeably less angsty these days.

Well, there's over-the-top gothy angst, which was very 1997. But I'm more trying to talk about the fact that it seems that other than general sort of angst, RPG designers aren't very good at expressing any other emotions through the game.

You don't see a Henry V moment, an Agincourt speech, where the virtues of fraternity and valor are presented in a meaningful and deeply impacting way.

Note that its not just game "designers"; its not really up to them, IMO, to present emotional undertones in most RPGs (but since they attempt it anyways, I will call them on it), but also most game-masters I know can't seem to present anything more complex than "woe is me" and "grr I'm angry".

RPGpundit

Quote from: RPGPunditYou don't see a Henry V moment, an Agincourt speech, where the virtues of fraternity and valor are presented in a meaningful and deeply impacting way.

This isn't an artifact of RPGs.  It's an artifact of modern culture.

KoOS

Quote from: King of Old SchoolI'd wager that there's less angst in all of the RPG products published in 2005 combined, than in your average Nisarg "why do the Swine hate me so?" rant.

KoOS

Dude, there's never any angst in my rants.  I don't feel pity over the fact that the swine hate me, I revel in it. I don't wish that they'd stop hating me; I wish that they'd stop trying to subvert my hobby.

You can make a good argument for my rants being filled with rage, and hate; but not so really with angst.  Show me one moment where I lament being picked on, rather than gloat about it.

RPGPundit

I blame Tom Cruise, who as an actor can express two emotions: Loony and Constipated.