Everyone seemingly loves the LBB edition.
What exactly is wrong with the later editions of the game?
The only other editions I've seen first-hand are MegaTraveller and GURPS Traveller.
MegaTraveller scared me off when I saw the amount of errata needed. The vehicle design rules were also a bit over the top.
GURPS just isn't the same (it's a great system, but it lacks the feel of the original).
The old game is just more wide-open, and its systems are far simpler in play. It's not perfect, but it just seems to have something the other versions I've seen lack.
(That said, I do have a copy of Pocket Empires for T4. It's an incredibly cool book!)
Way back when, in the early 1980s, I saw Traveller in my then FLGS.
The box set, with the simple colours and the text on the front, most evocative thing I ever saw in gaming.
It just does the job, later editions don't really improve it much and tend to add cruft, the LBB just do what you need.
MegaTraveller likely would have been better, but the errata were horrendous. TNE messed up the setting, the LBB didn't really even have a setting and were better for that, and TNE I think had some really odd dice rules.
Gurps, well, it's Gurps you know. To me Traveller needs random chargen, at least in part, Gurps works well for gritty sf but for me not so much for Traveller. That said, Andrew Hackard is a great line editor for all Dominus hates the guy and the Gurps Traveller books are very good and a lot of people have fun with them, I think they just tend to post elsewhere.
What about that last edition they did? It had LOADS of support I remember.
Original Traveller had clean rules and a solid setting. Every subsequent edition screwed up one of those things, except for The New Era, which managed to poop on both the old system and the old setting.
Now, every later edition has its own virtues. But the LBBs drew a huge following with many diehard fans. You don't keep those fans by changing 50% of the product every few years.
MegaTraveller is absolutely aces until you try to make spaceships fight. If you go crazy and want to build one, your flesh pulls back from your skull and wispy, howling ghosts erupt from you ears and I think you die.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!MegaTraveller is absolutely aces until you try to make spaceships fight. If you go crazy and want to build one, your flesh pulls back from your skull and wispy, howling ghosts erupt from you ears and I think you die.
Building ships in megatraveller was one of my hobbies in the early 90s (along with vehicles using either the standard rules or the Striker rules). But fleet battles were pretty much impossible unless you used statistics to handle all the weapons other than spinal mounts.
On the whole Megatraveller is my favorite version.
Personally, I highly-recommend GURPS Traveller.
Even if you ignore all the GURPS rules, it's still the best "one book" explaination of the classic (no Imperial assassination) Traveller universe. It's the perfect book to hand somebody who has no familiarity with the setting whatsoever. Hell, I myself was too intimidated for years by the huge mountain of our-of-print stuff that I felt I would need to ever truly "grok" Travaller.
Other plusses:
1. It has tons and tons of notes reflecting back on the history of the game and explaining why the designers did what they did when designing it. If you like restrospectives and "designer's notes", it's very insightful.
2. It addresses some of the ways in which the classic Traveller background can seem outdated to modern sci-fi fans. What to do about nanomachines, Transhumanist-type genetic engineering and cybernetics, internet-style computer networks, etc.
I like GURPS. I like classic Traveller. I like the GURPS 4e Traveller:Interstellar Wars as well (in fact it's the only GURPS Traveller I own).
But with little difference to Balbinus, GURPS isn't classic Traveller in a visceral way. Don't get me wrong, I'll play GURPS Traveller and enjoy it. The CT chargen is a big part of it.
After reading Yamo's post I might have to get it anyway.
Quote from: NicephorusBuilding ships in megatraveller was one of my hobbies in the early 90s (along with vehicles using either the standard rules or the Striker rules).
Ha ha ha! The funny thing is, I do that kind of crap for fun, too, but I ever qyuite got a handle on the MT design process. Maybe I'm missing a gene or two.
By the way...I have run GT
quite successfully, and have been pleased. I must echo Yamo's sentiments about the "one book" home run, as well as the stuff about the history and designer notes and stuff. In fact, I have almost the entire line of GT books, and they're my go-to source for Trav -- my encyclopedia, as it were.
I'm just more in love with CT's "Here are some tools, go get in trouble" vibe.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I'm just more in love with CT's "Here are some tools, go get in trouble" vibe.
I'm with you there. Some of the later design sequences (starting as early as
High Guard for me) making starship creation less about facilitating the game and more about fiddling with the starship creation rules. There's nothing wrong with that approach, I just prefer the earlier, simpler, shut-up-and-play approach.
Well, GDW did create the traveller legend, the problem was that GDW just couldn't create a damn thing without a lot of errors and eratta. Later even T4 by imperium games was plagued with errors, missing sections and other problems.
GDW had great ideas and concepts, the execution was flawed. Now with all the DTP software available T5 had better be perfect or it may be the end of traveller.
I got into GT before I had interacted with any sjg personnel, and liked it. I still like it even if there are some assess associated with it's creation.
As to random character generation, forget it! I like being able to create a character my way, so I can play him my way.
Traveller is a setting,. not a system, so I don't follow the complaints re GT "just not being really traveller, knowudahmsayin?" No, I don't. It's traveller, period.
Quote from: Dominus NoxTraveller is a setting,. not a system, so I don't follow the complaints re GT "just not being really traveller, knowudahmsayin?" No, I don't. It's traveller, period.
Now, see, for me, a virtual newb to the goodness that is Traveller (I'm about to hit my one-year anniversary with the game), what I like about the LBBs is the system. And I really don't like the Imperium. Bits and pieces of it are wonderful, yes, but the whole picture just doesn't do it for me (especially the aliens).
I was really surprised when I started researching the game online how many people are into Traveller for the setting alone. It didn't occur to me to treat the background materials as anything more than an example of how to use what was given to you in the books. I mean...LBB3 had rules for creating worlds of your own...why not use them?
Quote from: Dominus NoxTraveller is a setting,. not a system,
Bullcrap. Traveller is a game. Charted Space, the future history outlined by Marc Miller and filled in by many others, is a setting. Traveller existed as a game before the setting became part and parcel with the system. Nowadays the two are intertwined in complicated ways but you can (and people still do) play Traveller without the official setting. Here's some nifty descriptions of two pre-3rd Imperium Traveller campaigns. (http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/othroads/shavfoib/genesis.html) Several folks at the Classic Trav section of Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=44) still run similar games today.
Y'know, I totally missed this Traveller phenomenon. I have no idea what it is or what it's like save what I've picked up from online conversations about it, which I can sum up as the following:
- It's some sort of space trading game. So typical gameplay involves umm... commodities speculation and dealing with ship errors... or something.
- It's old and has more editions than you can shake a stick at.
- It has a life path type character generation system (like CP2020?).
- Typical PCs tend to be old scruffy retiree / small business owners.
- You can die in chargen.
- There was some sort of edition / setting wars thing where old school fans were upset by a certain edition of the game for some reason.
- It has a long-time and still-active fanbase.
- The cover art is really minimalist. So much so that one gets no feel for what the game is.
Quote from: RedFox- It's some sort of space trading game. So typical gameplay involves umm... commodities speculation and dealing with ship errors... or something.
You're right except for this. Free trader games (some of which involve surprisingly little trade) are just a campaign setup that's very popular because it allows the PCs a large amount of freedom within the setting. Other potential setups are: Mercenaries, criminals, politicos/diplomats, explorers, etc.
Quote from: RedFox- It has a life path type character generation system (like CP2020?).
Incorrect, there Red. CP2020 had a lifepath, but it had very little to do with character generation. CP2020's lifepath was nothing more than a hook generator with a few benies thrown in the mix for playing the lotto with.
Traveller's lifepath is actually used to generate randomly your stats and skills... more or less, and other than what you read into it has little or nothing do with hooks.
Quote from: SpikeIncorrect, there Red. CP2020 had a lifepath, but it had very little to do with character generation. CP2020's lifepath was nothing more than a hook generator with a few benies thrown in the mix for playing the lotto with.
Traveller's lifepath is actually used to generate randomly your stats and skills... more or less, and other than what you read into it has little or nothing do with hooks.
So like Burning Wheel?
MegaTraveller is my favorite version. The task system cleaned things up and made it one of the easiest to run games in my gaming history.
D20 Traveller was also pretty good, though it clung to some outdated conventions and scientific innacuracies of CT
BUUUT...
TNE - wrecked the universe with a (IMO) hoaky virus subplot, and they switched to their house system which way over-emphasized stats. I had no interest in seeing the imperium scapped in that way, thanks.
T4 - In some ways the chargen was excellent; it was a cleaned up version of what had come before. But the task system was a weak jump on the dice pool bandwagon, and many authors either had not faith to or clue about the traveller canon, instituting plots that are more likely to occur in Star Trek.
GURPS Traveller - First off, I have a fundamental disdain for the GURPS system, not being especially fond of freeform point buy, disadvantages, and many other aspects of it. More damning still, when it comes down to it, Traveller simply isn't Traveller AFAIAC if it lacks lifepath chargen.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!and I think you die.
Survival roll: 11+
+2 DM if END 11+
For my part, I like the LBB, but my personal favourite is Traveller D20 ("T20").
RPGPundit
Quote from: RedFoxSo like Burning Wheel?
Possibly. I've only really read about BW online and seen the 'monster burner' on the shelves. I certainly don't need a monster burner before I have a character creation (burner?) and the rules of the game.
I was thinking more along the lines of Twilight 2000 and it's various kin. Apropos, as GDW also did a version of Traveller (the only one I've played, actually....)
Quote from: Caesar SlaadD20 Traveller was also pretty good, though it clung to some outdated conventions and scientific innacuracies of CT
Do you think I'd be better off running a Traveller game with d20 Traveller or Spycraft 2.0?
Or maybe the question should be "Could you run Traveller using Spycraft 2.0 without a ton of changes?"
Anyone?
Bueller?
You could easily run Traveller using Spycraft 2.0. In fact, it'd be nice and cinematic-y. They even have some "high tech" gear that fits in well with what 1979-era Traveller thought was "high-tech".
In fact, that's a damn good idea. :)
No starship rules, of course.
Quote from: rcsampleDo you think I'd be better off running a Traveller game with d20 Traveller or Spycraft 2.0?
Or maybe the question should be "Could you run Traveller using Spycraft 2.0 without a ton of changes?"
Anyone?
Bueller?
Well, if you want starship construction and combat you need to go with a system that has the rules for it. I don't know if t20 does but gurps traveller does.
Quote from: rcsampleDo you think I'd be better off running a Traveller game with d20 Traveller or Spycraft 2.0?
Or maybe the question should be "Could you run Traveller using Spycraft 2.0 without a ton of changes?"
Anyone?
Bueller?
Of course you could.
Traveller is not a game, Traveller is a state of mind. An approach. And not even a universal one at that.
The very term Traveller means so many different thigns to so many different people that it's not even specific enough to be used by itself anymore.
Quote from: Yamo1. It has tons and tons of notes reflecting back on the history of the game and explaining why the designers did what they did when designing it.
While I think the GURPS Traveller material has a lot going for it, one of the problem is that those "tons" are measured in pounds rather than being metric tons. Traveller was a metric game and one of the things that drives me nuts about GURPS Traveller is the English system measurements. While being an American more used to English system measurements than metric (I still don't have an intuitive sense of what temperatures in Celsius feel like without converting), I'm just used to thinking in metric for Traveller.
Quote from: John MorrowWhile I think the GURPS Traveller material has a lot going for it, one of the problem is that those "tons" are measured in pounds rather than being metric tons. Traveller was a metric game and one of the things that drives me nuts about GURPS Traveller is the English system measurements. While being an American more used to English system measurements than metric (I still don't have an intuitive sense of what temperatures in Celsius feel like without converting), I'm just used to thinking in metric for Traveller.
Honetly, I'm just stunned. People really can complain about
anything. :)
Quote from: Dominus NoxTraveller is a setting,. not a system, so I don't follow the complaints re GT "just not being really traveller, knowudahmsayin?" No, I don't. It's traveller, period.
Actually, not quite, Traveller originally came without a setting and was a generic SF system. The setting came soon after, but it was not wedded to it initially.
Quote from: BalbinusActually, not quite, Traveller originally came without a setting and was a generic SF system. The setting came soon after, but it was not wedded to it initially.
Arguably, though, there was always an implied setting (rather like
Burning Wheel again). Victorianesque speed of communication and transportation; an aristocracy; heavily militarised; the UPP etc.
Traveller was never generic, I'd say. That it defined a generation of Sf roleplaying is something of an accident of history. If
Star Wars had come out just a bit earlier, things would have been different.
Quote from: droogArguably, though, there was always an implied setting (rather like Burning Wheel again). Victorianesque speed of communication and transportation; an aristocracy; heavily militarised; the UPP etc.
Traveller was never generic, I'd say. That it defined a generation of Sf roleplaying is something of an accident of history. If Star Wars had come out just a bit earlier, things would have been different.
There was definitely an implied setting, but no explicit one.
As for generic, although I broadly agree with you it was explicitly intended as a generic sf rpg, it just didn't do a very good job of it. Happily it did a much better job as a non-generic sf rpg, but that wasn't the original idea if you read the LBBs. There is a ton of advice about setting up your campaign and creating a universe in Book 0. It was only later they tied it to a setting that was as you rightly say already implicit.
Quote from: BalbinusAs for generic, although I broadly agree with you it was explicitly intended as a generic sf rpg
Was it, though? Did we even have the idea of a generic game then? Or was it that the infancy of roleplaying thrust upon us particular visions that we mistook for generality?
Anyway, I think
for me the answer to this thread is that
Traveller was a moment in roleplaying history in lots of ways, and that it's both setting and mechanics. Just like Mongoose's RQ ain't RQ to me,
Traveller isn't really
Traveller without 2d6 and the UPP.
Quote from: droogWas it, though? Did we even have the idea of a generic game then? Or was it that the infancy of roleplaying thrust upon us particular visions that we mistook for generality?
Several of the books said that Traveller was meant to handle what was then the full spectrum of sf, from pulp stuff to hard science. The books also explicitly invite you to modify the system as you need to meet that goal; it was never intended to be a fixed system, so the implied setting could (in theory) be thrown out the window. True of any game, I know, but that was the way the designers intended you to use Traveller.
Quote from: droogWas it, though? Did we even have the idea of a generic game then? Or was it that the infancy of roleplaying thrust upon us particular visions that we mistook for generality?
Anyway, I think for me the answer to this thread is that Traveller was a moment in roleplaying history in lots of ways, and that it's both setting and mechanics. Just like Mongoose's RQ ain't RQ to me, Traveller isn't really Traveller without 2d6 and the UPP.
If I recall correctly, although that term wasn't used it was explicit that you would make up your own sf universe and that it could be used to represent any sf universe you cared to create.
Now that wasn't really true, but that was the claim.
I don't think generic as a term was used until the early 1980s, but the concept predates that, DnD was intended as a generic fantasy rpg after all though like Traveller it wasn't really.
I think it's important to distinguish between a game's intent and it's actual achievements. Neither DnD nor Traveller were much good as generic games, but both were good games for all that.
By important here obviously I mean of no real importance at all in the grand scheme of things...
Quote from: BalbinusI think it's important to distinguish between a game's intent and it's actual achievements. Neither DnD nor Traveller were much good as generic games, but both were good games for all that.
I'm just interested in the whole idea of generic games, and it's wound up with this question of the identity of
Traveller.
Quote from: BalbinusBy important here obviously I mean of no real importance at all in the grand scheme of things...
I can't think what you could be suggesting.
Quote from: YamoHonetly, I'm just stunned. People really can complain about anything. :)
Hey, after years of drawing deckplans in meters in classic Traveller (where there was also a relationship to the ship size in tons), it's an important part of the feel for me. There is a reason why most physicists don't do their work in the English system (yes, I've seen what such equations look like -- pounds measure force, not mass, for example).
Clealry, your mileage varies.
Quote from: droogWas it, though? Did we even have the idea of a generic game then?
The claim is that it was a generic
SF game, in the same sense that D&D was (and in some ways, still is) a generic
Fantasy game. You don't have to run Traveller in the Imperium any more than you have to run D&D in Greyhawk, but the way the systems work and things that both systems support will put a certain flavor on any setting that you use either system for. Remember, for D&D and Traveller, the systems were released first and the settings came later for the general public, even if the systems reflected things from the settings used by the authors for running and playtesting the game.
Quote from: John MorrowThe claim is that it was a generic SF game, in the same sense that D&D was (and in some ways, still is) a generic Fantasy game.
I understand all that, but the point I'm making is that neither D&D nor
Traveller are, in fact, at all 'generic'. Both represent highly specific views of these genres, and it's a historical accident that both of them became so representative in the world of roleplaying.
I grew up with a 70s view of SF (being born in '64), and I knew even then that
Traveller touched on only a part of what I'd read. D&D didn't look like anything I'd read at all.
What is also interesting is that Traveller is tied to a form of SF you simply don't get anymore. Post-Bank's Consider Phlebas you either have literary space opera like the stuff produced by the British school or you have US-style MilSF.
You don't really get the whole "tramp freighter full of scumbags on the edge of an empire" type novels any more. The only contemporary source I can think of for that kind of stuff is Firefly, but even then Firefly was never really ABOUT a tramp freighter on the edge of an empire. It was more about the different ways in which people can "belong" to something, whether it's a group, a family, an empire or a set of principles.
Putting on my critical hat, I'd say that that kind of SF was a product of the Cold War when many reasonable people saw these two huge empires clashing with each other and realised they didn't feel any particular loyalty to either one. The political context having changed, that approach to SF has died off.
Personally my favourite edition of traveller is the New Era one, a much more interesting and dynamic setting than earlier editions.
Quote from: rcsampleOr maybe the question should be "Could you run Traveller using Spycraft 2.0 without a ton of changes?"
You could do it. With minimal pain even if you used SC 2.0 for the core engine and T20 for tech rules and the like that SC 2.0 is missing. It'd be bitchin' to add dramatic conflict rules to Traveller, though integrating the SC classes to the lifepath system might be a bit of a bitch.
There's a Spycraft 2.0 SF setting on the way called Farthest Star. That'd make it even easier.
Alright, nobody where I live is into Traveller. What would be the best way to get into this thing?
Because hearing snippets like, "Victorian level communications and travel" and "independents on the edge of a great empire" piqued my interest.
Quote from: RedFoxAlright, nobody where I live is into Traveller. What would be the best way to get into this thing?
Because hearing snippets like, "Victorian level communications and travel" and "independents on the edge of a great empire" piqued my interest.
I would recommend a combination of the "little black books" for rules and the GURPS Traveller core book as an easy to reference setting bible.
http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=12765
http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=2103
Total damage: About $40.00.
Quote from: RedFoxAlright, nobody where I live is into Traveller. What would be the best way to get into this thing?
- Acquire LBBs.
- Roll stuff up.
- Strike other gamers about the head and neck until they get the motherfucking clue.
- Rejoice!
...you could just stop at #1 if you wanted to.
I prefer Megatraveller. It´s the SciFi Gamers RC!
Took me three hours to work in all the errata, and the system loved me back with four years of great gamig.
Quote from: SettembriniI prefer Megatraveller. It´s the SciFi Gamers RC!
Took me three hours to work in all the errata, and the system loved me back with four years of great gamig.
The design sequences scare me from afar. I like plugging in class B engines and zooming off to adventure.
Actually, I use Software for MT design sequences. But the skill, chargen and especially combat rules are a far superiour for my sci-fi bogus verisimilitude tastes.
The penetration rules are the penultimate tool in modern warfare emulation, they have a place in my heart right next to the Harnmaster melee rules.
Go MT!
Let me just mention that as of now, I would like to run a game of Cold Space using Traveller.
RPGPundit
What is cold space?
Quote from: RPGPunditLet me just mention that as of now, I would like to run a game of Cold Space using Traveller.
RPGPundit
I could see that. :D
-clash
Quote from: RPGPunditLet me just mention that as of now, I would like to run a game of Cold Space using Traveller.
RPGPundit
Where does the line form? :)
Quote from: droogI understand all that, but the point I'm making is that neither D&D nor Traveller are, in fact, at all 'generic'. Both represent highly specific views of these genres, and it's a historical accident that both of them became so representative in the world of roleplaying.
Two things to consider. First, I don't think it's an accident. I think both D&D and Traveller did and do some things very well, even if not everyone likes things that way or appreciates it. While not generic, both were very flexible. Second, even the games designed to really be "generic" often fail to be entirely generic, too. GURPS, Hero, and every other game with a claim to being generic handles some things better than others, and when dealing with fantasy or science fiction, as soon as you define a spell system, magic items, starship technology, or technical equipment list, you've made the setting less than generic.
Star Wars doesn't have phasers. Star Trek doesn't have blasters. The only alternative to remain generic is a very low-level toolkit which, in return for flexibility, requires a many choices and often a lot of work on the part of the GM before you they can use it.
Traveller was generic at the start.
Generic from a golden age of sci-fi angle.
Quote from: SettembriniTraveller was generic at the start.
Generic from a golden age of sci-fi angle.
What are good examples from this era? I'm woefully innocent of stuff like that. I tend to either find hard scifi, really old pulp stuff (like Lensmen) or new Space Opera (Peter F. Hamilton).
Quote from: RedFoxWhat are good examples from this era? I'm woefully innocent of stuff like that. I tend to either find hard scifi, really old pulp stuff (like Lensmen) or new Space Opera (Peter F. Hamilton).
Larry Niven, Isaac Azimov, Poul Anderson, Cordwainer Smith, H. Beam Piper.
That should take a few years for you to plaw through... :D
-clash
Hmm, only one I've read regularly is Azimov, and that was from those little SciFi digest books.
Quote from: RedFoxHmm, only one I've read regularly is Azimov, and that was from those little SciFi digest books.
For Azimov, read his
Foundation series:
Foundation,
Foundation and Empire, and
Second Foundation. I'm not a big fan of Azimov's - I am of the others I listed - but that's his best work, and a lot of Traveller is based on it.
For Niven, read anything set in
Known Space, including
Ringworld.
For Anderson, his
Poleisotechnic League novels - like
The Man Who Counts - and his
Flandry of Terra series are best for inspiration.
H. Beam Piper was a major influence on Traveller. I think almost anything he wrote would work, as he had a short writing career.
Cordwainer Smith is mostly a short story writer, but his one novel
Norstrillia is usually available somewhere. He also had a couple of collections.
This is all off the top of my head, BTW. I hope I got the names of the books correct...
-clash
Another cool but more obscure Trav source is E.C. Tubbs' Dumarest of Terra series.
Quote from: jrientsAnother cool but more obscure Trav source is E.C. Tubbs' Dumarest of Terra series.
I've heard of that, but never read it... May have to do some library diving! Oh to be able to visit the Boston Public Library when I feel like it again! I hate suburbia! :O
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceI've heard of that, but never read it... May have to do some library diving! Oh to be able to visit the Boston Public Library when I feel like it again! I hate suburbia! :O
-clash
They're very cool.
Also, don't forget the Jerry Pournelle's CoDominium universe. I could see porting
The Mote in God's Eye to Classic Traveller without a problem. They even have black globes (the Langston Field)! And I see an affinity with how CT depicted starships in those books, as well.
Quote from: John MorrowTwo things to consider. First, I don't think it's an accident. I think both D&D and Traveller did and do some things very well, even if not everyone likes things that way or appreciates it. While not generic, both were very flexible. Second, even the games designed to really be "generic" often fail to be entirely generic, too. GURPS, Hero, and every other game with a claim to being generic handles some things better than others, and when dealing with fantasy or science fiction, as soon as you define a spell system, magic items, starship technology, or technical equipment list, you've made the setting less than generic.
The question of whether the first two games on the market did things well or not isn't the point. I can't speak for anyone else, but it was the
idea of roleplaying games that sold me (as soon as I heard about it). You could have sold me FATAL at that point.
D&D and
Traveller only had to be
good enough – and they were.
QuoteStar Wars doesn't have phasers. Star Trek doesn't have blasters. The only alternative to remain generic is a very low-level toolkit which, in return for flexibility, requires a many choices and often a lot of work on the part of the GM before you they can use it.
Traveller doesn't have blasters
or phasers. It has shotguns and cutlasses in space – and at the other end, tank-melting plasma guns.
Quote from: SettembriniWhat is cold space?
An RPG by our very own Clash, really clever alternate history-ish setting. I'll probably be reviewing it in about a week.
RPGPundit
If you like "Cold Space: try to get acopy of Activision's "Battlezone" PC game which was set in an alternate universe where the sovs and america fought a war thruout the solar system, covertly, during the 60's and 70's.
I played and Reffed oriiginal classic TRAVELLER when I was a teenager, then a tad when I was in my early 20s.
About the time that the JTAS became CHALLENGE ...I was running FASA's SAR TREK:RPG. A couple of years I thought about picking up more TRAVELLER books or trying to get back into the game - but that whole assassination/Rebellion?shattered Imperium/Mega- T/New Era stuff just turned me off to it. So, from the FASA ST game I drifted to CAR WARS , then GURPS:AUTODUEL , then GURPS.
When SJ Games got the license for TRAVELLER I decided to check it out.
Looked over that hardback book, thougyt "Now THIS is TRAVELLER!!"
The return to having Emperor Strephon alive got me back into the game.
If there is a "Rebellion" in my version of the universe - then its because my players have started it , not a company's meta-plot.
GURPS:TRAVELLER just feels like continuation of the classic story and timeline.
For me the ONLY editions I'd play are Classic and the GURPS versions of it ...or a blend of the two.
- Ed C.
This is NOT a "Necro" , one of the posters was looking at this thread , I clicked and found it interesting.
Quote from: KoltarIf there is a "Rebellion" in my version of the universe - then its because my players have started it , not a company's meta-plot.
Huzzah, I say! Huzzah!
Though one
could construct an argument that the whole point to the official setting is that macro decisions are beyond the control of the players, but their micro level responses are given maximum latitude.
Quote from: SpikeIncorrect, there Red. CP2020 had a lifepath, but it had very little to do with character generation. CP2020's lifepath was nothing more than a hook generator with a few benies thrown in the mix for playing the lotto with.
The first edition of Cyberpunk is the one with lifepath character generation.
Quote from: GabrielThe first edition of Cyberpunk is the one with lifepath character generation.
True enough, and something I forget sometimes, though that edition is often referred to as 2013. 2020 specifically refers to the second edition.
Quote from: flyingmiceFor Azimov, read his Foundation series: Foundation, Foundation and Empire, and Second Foundation. I'm not a big fan of Azimov's - I am of the others I listed - but that's his best work, and a lot of Traveller is based on it.
For Niven, read anything set in Known Space, including Ringworld.
For Anderson, his Poleisotechnic League novels - like The Man Who Counts - and his Flandry of Terra series are best for inspiration.
H. Beam Piper was a major influence on Traveller. I think almost anything he wrote would work, as he had a short writing career.
Cordwainer Smith is mostly a short story writer, but his one novel Norstrillia is usually available somewhere. He also had a couple of collections.
This is all off the top of my head, BTW. I hope I got the names of the books correct...
-clash
ASIMOV, dammit!
I think anyone who likes "traveller" in any form would enjoy a good SF novel called "The eternity artifact" by Modesitt. It's an excellent hard SF novel that doesn't let technology dominate characters or story, and is very well written.
I really do recommend it to any traveller afficianado, except koltar who doesn't deserve to read a book this good.
Quote from: RedFox- The cover art is really minimalist. So much so that one gets no feel for what the game is.
Minimalist, yes. But I always felt it gave a pretty good idea of the game.
(http://spaceship.brainiac.com/GDW/traveller-1ed.jpeg)
Quote from: CaudexMinimalist, yes. But I always felt it gave a pretty good idea of the game.
(http://spaceship.brainiac.com/GDW/traveller-1ed.jpeg)
Oh God yeah. In fact, it was, and still is, one of the most evocative RPG covers I've ever seen. It absolutely gave me, and the guys I gamed with, an idea of what the game was like. As for interior art...well, Traveller art was certainly minimalist, almost to the point of non-existence. What little there was in some of the main books such as Mercenary, was quite evocative. Supplements like "Traders and Gunboats" and "Fighting Ships," and adventures like "Leviathan" and "The Kinunir" were glommed onto because of all the starship pics. The Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society, when it could be found, was also interesting mostly due to the art, which was just so rare in the game line in general.
Preach it, Colonel.
In fact, IIR the chronology C, for a while the only color art in Traveller were the JTAS covers. As a result, they're etched into my brain. I still remember the cover for the issue on Azun(?), that planet with like 10 billion inhabitants who are living in a handful of monumental skyscrapers.
One loved the art for Traveller because it was so rare, because the reproductions of the gigantic starships in the supplements were so small--because there was just enough of art in the game to fire up your imagination to add the rest.
Bill Keith´s ink drawings are unbelievably inspiring and fit nicely into my preference for Space:1999, 2001, Star Wars and Galactica model building.
There´s nothing like a real spaceship model, seconded by Bill Keith´s inkys.
CGi is still not highly enough developed to be an actual improvement.
Just compare the battle of Endor to the Byzantine Fresko that is Episode III.
Hey, all this talk about traveller begs the question:
ANY UPDATES ON T5 YET?!?!
I loved the LBBs because when they came out, they really fit what I was looking for in a game. Classic Traveller was a toolkit you could use to create your own SFRPG setting. You've got to remember that before this, you had to wait for a published book with worlds, critters, starships, and whatnot - so Traveller was really groundbreaking (at least to me) with that create-your-own approach to gaming.
There are parts of what came later that I like, just not all of it. Megatraveller had the cinematic nugget format for adventures which I still use. TNE had Fire, Fusion, and Steel which is a gearhead's wet dream come true. I like how T4 handles combat and its smooth progression from personal combat to vehicle combat. GURPS: Traveller has both Far Trader and Starports which are amazing sourcebooks. Traveller20 is really close to the feel of CT, but being geared for the d20 system - it works well for me to recruit people into playing Traveller from DnD.
Each later version has its strengths and weaknesses. I look at which version I'd like to use based on who my players are, what kind of campaign they'd like, and then pick the best tool for the job.
I have no idea what Traveller: HERO system looks like and I know that T5 has undergone a severe rewrite to fix its task system.
Yet, overall, I'd have to say that I like to curve back over to Classic Traveller often because it is an elegant system with LBBs 1-3. Its just complex enough to allow for a lot of variation and just simple enough to be a quick start.
Nox, it's the funniest thing. One of the few CotI posters who have Marc's ear says that according to him the schedule stands: June 2007. I just can't believe that, but who knows.
Quote from: WerekoalaYou could easily run Traveller using Spycraft 2.0. In fact, it'd be nice and cinematic-y. They even have some "high tech" gear that fits in well with what 1979-era Traveller thought was "high-tech".
In fact, that's a damn good idea. :)
No starship rules, of course.
Do you think you could just pull from d20 Future for ships?
Quote from: KenHRI was really surprised when I started researching the game online how many people are into Traveller for the setting alone. It didn't occur to me to treat the background materials as anything more than an example of how to use what was given to you in the books. I mean...LBB3 had rules for creating worlds of your own...why not use them?
You need to read this about the Burgess Shale period of Traveller. It explains a little about pre Imperium days of Traveller.
http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/othroads/burgess.html
Having played through all editions of Traveller from the first LBB in 1980 onwards. IMO the reason what the Imperium == Traveller for so many is because of that wonderful poster size map of the Spinward Marches. Back in the day it was like WOW. It was as good or better than the darlene maps of Greyhawk in the folio. It just looked so cool you wanted to use it.
And the names like the Third Imperium, Sword Worlds, Darrian Confederation, Zhodani Consulate. They just leaped at you like from the old sci-fi stories by Asimov and others.
Rob Conley
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalEveryone seemingly loves the LBB edition.
What exactly is wrong with the later editions of the game?
I think the LBB nearly perfectly balenced complexity, realism, and expandibility. The world creation system produced reasonable results for gaming, the starship design system was easily juggled, and so on.
I know for starship design the big problem for later design sequences starting with High Guard is the regression problem. There was no simple way of creating a starship because something were modular while other were percentage based. This caused a problem where you had to go back and recalculate things over and over again. Until like the 5th or 10th time you finally found the right compromise for your design.
The advanced world systems of later editions produced more realistic results but realistic results meant a Battlestar Galactica (new series) style cosmos where inhabitant planets were like oasis in very large desert of stellar systems.
Rob Conley
Quote from: estarYou need to read this about the Burgess Shale period of Traveller. It explains a little about pre Imperium days of Traveller.
http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/othroads/burgess.html
Burgess Shale, that's a really good metaphor. And the map just blew my mind. What's astounding though is that charted space is actually... tiny. I sort of knew that, but this website, which is like google earth for the Traveller universe, really drives the point home:
//www.travellermap.com
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity....this website, which is like google earth for the Traveller universe, really drives the point home:
//www.travellermap.com
Um. That is the most fucking awesome thing.
Thanks.
CK
Quote from: RedFoxWhat are good examples from this era? I'm woefully innocent of stuff like that. I tend to either find hard scifi, really old pulp stuff (like Lensmen) or new Space Opera (Peter F. Hamilton).
The Sci-Fi books by Andre Norton
.
Sargasso of Space (Solar Queen)
Plague Ship (Solar Queen)
Voodoo Planet (Solar Queen)
Postmarked the Stars (Solar Queen)
Redline the Stars (Solar Queen)
Derelict for Trade (Solar Queen)
Mind for Trade (Solar Queen)
The Zero Stone (Jern Murdock)
Uncharted Stars (Jern Murdock)
Moon of Three Rings (Free Traders)
Exiles of the Stars (Free Traders)
Flight in Yiktor (Free Traders)
Dare to Go A-Hunting (Free Traders)
Catseye (Dipple)
Judgment on Janus (Dipple)
Night of Masks (Dipple)
Forerunner Foray (Dipple)
The Beast Master (Hosteen Storm)
Lord of Thunder (Hosteen Storm)
Beast Master's Ark (Hosteen Storm)
Beast Master's Circus (Hosteen Storm)
=
Quote from: Thanatos02Do you think you could just pull from d20 Future for ships?
I imagine so. Just keep to the lasers and missiles and whatnot.
Not to derail an informative Traveller thread but I've been wondering about something. Are the original black box books from the late 70's-early 80's hard to get? The reason I ask is that an old friend of mine seems very eager for me to give him all my original Traveller books and Snapshot. I don't remember him ever playing the game so I almost suspect he wants to sell them on Ebay or something. He is an Ebay fanatic and has ripped me off before.
From this thread it seems like there is a lot of Traveller material available so I'm probably just being paranoid but still......
they're not worth a ton, but you'd get a fair bit for them. just go take a look.
i wouldn't part with them if i were you.
Thanks Beeber, I couldn't find any of the original books up for sale but I figured they weren't worth all that much.
I'll probably take your advice and hang on to them for sentimental reasons if nothing else. I never GM'd Traveller but I had a good time playing it back in the day. I wouldn't mind if I thought he was going to run a game but I just have this nagging doubt....
Quote from: GrimjackI wouldn't mind if I thought he was going to run a game but I just have this nagging doubt....
Maybe you ought to give him a few copies of
Book 20: Five Across The Lip.
I mean, if he
is tryin' to scam you.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!MegaTraveller is absolutely aces until you try to make spaceships fight. If you go crazy and want to build one, your flesh pulls back from your skull and wispy, howling ghosts erupt from you ears and I think you die.
Damn, I missed this way back when it was originally posted. This gave me several good laughs today.
Quote from: GrimjackThanks Beeber, I couldn't find any of the original books up for sale but I figured they weren't worth all that much.
I'll probably take your advice and hang on to them for sentimental reasons if nothing else. I never GM'd Traveller but I had a good time playing it back in the day. I wouldn't mind if I thought he was going to run a game but I just have this nagging doubt....
Hang on to them - if for no other reason than I think that guy IS trying to scam you . Send me a PM or an e-mail, if you stop in the store sometime I'll tell you want your books are realistically worth.
The thing is - they are still very GOOD reference for those of us that run
GURPS:TRAVELLER[/B. When I run my campaign I treat those as just an older, but slightly out-of-date reference for the campaign universe. Kind of like looking at old NATIONAL GEOGRAPHICS about an area before going there. You know some info will be correct, but much of it will have changed since the original articles and photos were taken.
As for SNAPSHOT ? I would LOVE to see that in-person again. Its been years since I saw a copy of that . Don't want to buy it from you ...just want to look at it again or maybe borrow it to show my players a bit of history ...then hand it back to you .
- Ed C
Y'know, I loved T4. It was so damn close. Incredible character generation even if they really needed the risk of death kept in to counterbalance uber old man syndrome.
The combat system handled damage and penetration very well.
the dice system could have worked. Average probably should've been 3d and the half dice should have been left out though.
The idea of modular ship design that was derived from a fusion fire and steel system was good if poorly executed.
I even like the over all handling of ship to ship.
sigh
Quote from: GrimjackNot to derail an informative Traveller thread but I've been wondering about something. Are the original black box books from the late 70's-early 80's hard to get? The reason I ask is that an old friend of mine seems very eager for me to give him all my original Traveller books and Snapshot. I don't remember him ever playing the game so I almost suspect he wants to sell them on Ebay or something. He is an Ebay fanatic and has ripped me off before.
From this thread it seems like there is a lot of Traveller material available so I'm probably just being paranoid but still......
It all depends on condition.
If you have not just the books but the box as well, AND if the box is collector-grade, you're looking at $50, perhaps even a bit more nowadays.
If the box is damaged, or you have just the books... ehh. If they're pristine, then maybe someone will pay 15 bucks for the lot.
Snapshot: ziplock edition or box? If box, collector-grade or not? Last I checked, nobleknight.com had a couple of both--check out what he's charging.
Yes, I am moderately obsessed with Traveller stuff.
I just got an Azhanti High Lightning rulebook from ebay. Just the silly little book. 15 bucks. *ka-ching* But what's a man to do? I lost mine in the 80s. I still have the game. AHL, she's a beauty. $75 and up, but then I'm not selling. :D
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Maybe you ought to give him a few copies of Book 20: Five Across The Lip.
I mean, if he is tryin' to scam you.
Excellent advice. He scammed me a couple of times when we were kids but I would like to think he has outgrown it. Maybe not though. Like I said, his sudden interest in playing some of my old games was a little suspicious since I don't think he has run a game in a long time.
Pierce, thanks that is probably it. He knows I'm a bit of a packrat and that I try to keep all my games in pretty good condition. The Traveller books are all in the original box (I've got several of the supplements plus the original) and while maybe not "mint" are in very good condition (IMO). As far as Snapshot, it is the boxed edition, still in the box and I only used it once that I recall so it is in very good condition as well.
I think I'll pass on giving them to him. Even if I don't GM Traveller I'm not about to supply him with money for booze and hookers. Thanks again.
Quote from: GrimjackI think I'll pass on giving them to him. Even if I don't GM Traveller I'm not about to supply him with money for booze and hookers. Thanks again.
Wait! You hadn't mentioned
hoo-No, no, you're right.
Quote from: KoltarAs for SNAPSHOT ? I would LOVE to see that in-person again. Its been years since I saw a copy of that . Don't want to buy it from you ...just want to look at it again or maybe borrow it to show my players a bit of history ...then hand it back to you .
- Ed C
MAYDAY! is nice too. (Have both.)
:D
Snapshot and Mayday still seem to go for a pretty good price. I've never been able to get them on eBay because I'm a cheapass.
Quote from: jrientsSnapshot and Mayday still seem to go for a pretty good price. I've never been able to get them on eBay because I'm a cheapass.
Their best game, though, was
Asteroid (Series 120 but not Traveller).