Maybe my question is naive. Maybe the answer is obvious. But I have strange feeling in guts recently and I want to talk about it. The question is this. Why people hate D&D?

Take for example this situation. One person write something about how D&D does not suit his needs well. Another one tells him something like "Well done. You shouldn't even touch it... cause this and that those are games for you." And than comes the third one, who adds something like D&D is not suitable for anyone or any kind of play etc. etc.

The same goes for d20 system as well.

As a player of D&D and d20 games this hurts me a lot... Like I have respect for most of other games, even if I don't play them. Ok, I have those issue with that rape in Poisn'd recently, but that was (in my opinion) also about the people defending the actual act not the game itself. And yes, I feel some games might not be RPGs but maybe some protoforms of new type of games, but I still wish their players well.

On the other hand it seems some people hate the game... like it has made something horrible? Why is that? I mean why can't they be just indiferent to games they don't prefere... why do they need to malign and slander them? I don't get it...

And I am sad.

Alnaq:

Some people have no conception of the difference between the particular and the general. If they can't see a use for it, then there is no use for it. For anyone. Ever. If they love something, then everyone else must as well, or else they're idiots. Welcome to the internet.    

-clash

For the same reasons fans of sporting team A fight sporting team B's fans at football matches...for the same reason those of one religious faith heap scorn and contempt on those of other faiths.  

short answer: human nature.

Quote from: kregmosierFor the same reasons fans of sporting team A fight sporting team B's fans at football matches...for the same reason those of one religious faith heap scorn and contempt on those of other faiths.  

short answer: human nature.

But there are those who don't do this, who love their sports team and aren't bent out of shape if you love a different one; who are strongly faithful yet do not scorn other paths; who don't play or run D&D but do not think people who love it are somehow wrong. They are human too!

-clash

Quote from: kregmosierFor the same reasons fans of sporting team A fight sporting team B's fans at football matches...for the same reason those of one religious faith heap scorn and contempt on those of other faiths.

Ok. But that is some kind of competition. Is there any competition around RPGs? Cause even if I might not have fun with some game I know some of my friends have and well I am happy with them... I mean is this some kind of envy or jealous or something?

I know people behave strange especially with very few social pressure, like internet boards offer, but I still don't get it...

certainly, but since this is the internet, i'm speaking in vague generalities.

Can we talk about this later?  I have some opinions, but now is really not the time.

People are like that. They want to think their own preferences are valid and right, and like to have their preferences validated. This is particularly true of the "big guy" on the market, as some feel that the fact more people play the game than their favorite is a slight against them, and they have to prove it wrong.

At worst, they don't like the game but feel they can't get away from it because nobody locally is interested in playing the games they find interesting. The market outside D&D is too fragmented to get agreement on what to play in many places. For these folks, it becomes all the more important to make their case. And the internet is all to convenient a sounding board and place to find sympathy.

Don't let it concern you. Though there are a lot of overwrought folk weighing in on this issue, keep in mind that critics post. There are lots of folks out there who could give a rats arse about what some vocal critic on a message board thinks about their game, and has fun rolling dice and playing the game with their friends week after week.

I don't hate it but it does bore me. It doesn't bore everyone. That's cool.

Quote from: AlnagOk. But that is some kind of competition. Is there any competition around RPGs? Cause even if I might not have fun with some game I know some of my friends have and well I am happy with them... I mean is this some kind of envy or jealous or something?

I know people behave strange especially with very few social pressure, like internet boards offer, but I still don't get it...

There is always competition. Simply, if I am right, I win. Therefore, if you play the games I play, I win. I can do this by telling you how wrong your game is and how right my game is. I believe my game is right because I am smart, witty and a special snowflake. You must be wrong or I am wrong.

Unfortunately, the above is common. Most people cannot comprehend that several people with differing opinions may be right or a million people can be wrong. This is a matter of opinion. People feel strongly about a matter so they must validate there existence by telling other people how to think, what to play and why the other person's play is badwrongfun. Meh, I am not a fan of such views. I prefer the view you seem to be presenting which is one of "Hey, enjoy what you play and don't tell me what to play".

Bill

A couple points:

1.  There are always jerks anywhere you go in life.  Especially on the internet.  That being said, I think MOST of the critics you find online would say "hate" is a bit strong of a word.  They're not fans of D20, if you are, that doesn't bother them.  

2.  I think the way you framed your question really gets at the heart of the answer.  You're looking at D&D and D20 D&D as one and the same.  They're not.  D&D has been around a long time.  "4th" Edition is something closer to 8th or 9th by my count.  There are lots of people who are big fans of D&D but can't stand D20.   They are not one and the same.  In my humble opinion it's this idea that they are the same that pisses people off.  They see newer versions of D&D as not being true to their roots- or even going out of their way to eliminate any connection to those roots.  If D20 D&D wasn't called D&D- say it was "WoC Fantasy RPG" then you'd still have people who didn't play it but there wouldn't be the animosity there is now.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadDon't let it concern you. Though there are a lot of overwrought folk weighing in on this issue, keep in mind that critics post. There are lots of folks out there who could give a rats arse about what some vocal critic on a message board thinks about their game, and has fun rolling dice and playing the game with their friends week after week.

Absolutely!  then there are also the people who couldn't care either way, that just post on forums to stir the pot.

At the end of the day, don't let it bother you, Alnag.  The best solution is to turn of the computer and roll dice! :haw:

I kind of hate the ubiquity of D&D/D20. I'm basically not interested in fantasy, so the popularity of D&D rules me out of a lot of games/groups at stage one. I'd prefer to just ignore it, but it interferes with my gaming whether I like it or not.

I've had a great time in some D20 games that parked themselves a way from D&D gameplay (e.g. T20 Traveller).

OTOH Star Wars Saga Edition did its level best to stop me enjoying a Star Wars campaign, because it set out to be "D&D in the Star Wars Universe" rather than working like the Star Wars movies. But it's a great big license, so there's really only one company that's going to get it, and you know what sort of game you'll get from them.

Quote from: AlnagAs a player of D&D and d20 games this hurts me a lot...

You answer your own question by saying that.  You've come to identify yourself so much through the game that any critique is a reflection on you as a player.  It's very much like the sports analogy.  It's like a sports fan that refuses to be critical of their team.  I'm not a huge fan of D20 but I love me some D&D.  I've always felt that I could as much from D&D's previous iterations than its most current one.  There is a lot to be critical of in those previous editions but as players we made them work.

Most people who hate on D&D/D20 hate it because of Hasbro and it's business model for the game.

Some hate on it because they think that the game encourages min/maxing to the nth degree or attracts 13 year olds only.

Others hate on it because they think it's a bad, bad system.

I'm more of 1 and 3 myself. I don't hate D&D: I still love my AD&D and Basic D&D books. I just think that 3e sucks compared to 2e or 1e.

-=Grim=-