For people who like crunch-medium games of playing hidden supernaturals, the only "big" game (currently supported, big active community, etc.) is Old and New World of Darkness. There are crunch-medium games that aren't really active (Witchcraft), and story-type games like (Dresden, Monsterhearts, etc.), but nothing in that space.

It's weird that that's the case, isn't it? There are tons of different currently supported medium (or more) crunch fantasy games. And books, movies, and tv shows where the character's are supernatural are very popular.

Don't get me wrong, I own tons of new and old world of darkness stuff and run it all the time.

<< this is where you mention the awesome kick-starter you're doing for just this sort of game, or maybe some OSR-like version of Witchcraft or something >>

It's a very good question to be honest. The original WoD really grabbed on to the Zeitgeist of the 90's. It just seemed to do everything right, even when wrong...

Onyx Path is still coasting on that good name. Reviving Cwod really injected new life into them as well...

Nwod has never had the same impact. It's done well, enough to justify it's existence, and some of it's offerings are awesome (Hunter: The Vigil, Promethean the Created, Changeling: The Lost) and it's second editions have promise... but it's still not the Classic World of Darkness.

The problem of course, is any other offering is going to draw the comparison in the end. If you do a game about Vampires, it's going to get compared to WW's version...and they kinda did the best version...

Clans, Disciplines....Blood Lines... Sure you could do something like "Houses" and I "Powers of the Blood" but you're still walking in their shoes..

It's not like Fantasy which as a million different permutations, or Superheroes which can do the same thing...

If you go to weird with your Vampires, then you get away from the appeal in the first place..

It's not impossible of course...but it is difficult... Most likely you'd have to invent a new system to capture a similar feel of sorts. I don't think a Level based system would do it well, nor would something like say, Savage Worlds ((As much as I love both))

So I don't think it's too difficult to see why it hasn't happened yet. But I welcome those who are attempting to do so. Hell, I might try to do so myself, but I'm already working on other projects of my own to get out.

I just recently backed a Kickstarter FASERIP game called human(ish) that cites the World of Darkness as one of its major inspirations (along with the show Being Human). I'll probably play around with it, maybe try to import some features from ICONS or something. If it ever gets more than one book, though, I'll be stunned.

WW/OP simply has the monopoly. They're entrenched, and anyone trying to take a piece of that action has to not only deal with muscling into their territory but also worry about the subsequent claims that they're just ripping off the World of Darkness. So any game that comes out has to have some sort of unique twist to it.

The one hope I have is that someone sees the potential and launches a line of Savage Worlds books. Not that I think SW is the best system for urban fantasy (I love it, but it wouldn't be my first choice), but I know there has been a lot of talk about just such a setting on the official PEG forums recently from fans who want a traditional urban fantasy playground. Rules-wise, it would actually be very simple to do. Coming up with an interesting setting hook and putting it all together is the hard part.

Well, there's Vampire: The Undeath from Dark Phoenix publishing

Its completely original and not like any vampire rpgs you've ever seen, honest.

On a more serious not, I always thought GURPs CABAL really deserved its own gameline. It was modern supernatural occult gothic adventure, like oWoD, except the person writing it really understood what all those terms meant.

There was also The Everlasting, a short-lived WoD competitor that honestly I kinda liked better than oWoD, just for the sheer enthusiasm of the author. It could very rightly even be termed a "White Wolf Heartbreaker". It was incredibly creative, but suffered from an "everything and the kitchen sink" approach. I would have liked to have seen what it as a gameline could have evolved into if it hadnt died a swift death.

I think there is a lot of room out there for more modern supernaturals games, but WW pretty much has vampires done to death, for the reasons pointed out by Orphan upthread. OTOH, Ive never liked White Wolf's interpretation of werewolves and think werewolves in general have yet to have their Great Expression in roleplaying games form.

Quote from: TristramEvans;846621OTOH, Ive never liked White Wolf's interpretation of werewolves and think werewolves in general have yet to have their Great Expression in roleplaying games form.

I definitely agree with this. I've never liked how WW seemed to be stuck on the idea that werewolves and spirits had to be joined at the hip. Werewolves as ecowarriors/spirit cops just never fully clicked with me.

Quote from: Brand55;846625I definitely agree with this. I've never liked how WW seemed to be stuck on the idea that werewolves and spirits had to be joined at the hip. Werewolves as ecowarriors/spirit cops just never fully clicked with me.

It's one of the best explanations for giving Werewolves extra powers. Vampires throughout popular media and folklore have all kinds of different abilities from Mind Control, to Super Strength and Flight, to Animal Control..

Werewolves well....They turn into either giant killer wolves or normal wolves.

But a game where you just shift into a different form, probably isn't going to be fun. Even Dungeons and Dragons has their Fighter types get all kinds of options..

So you have to find a way to give some cool powers to your Werewolves, and well...the wolf, nature, spirit connection is kind of logical for that avenue..

Unless you go with the idea Werewolves are in fact related to Demons and instead give them options for Infernal style magic and abilities.

Are you listening, Stellar Games of Ohio? Get crackin' on that new edition of Nightlife: The Role-Playing Game of Urban Horror!



(Crickets chirp. Faint sound of a lone dog howling in the distance.)



Oh well, I would buy it.

In the Perception Effect I took a lot of influence from Bloodborne which took a lot of influence from Cthulhu Mythologies.

Some thing having to do with the blood in werewolves.  Think werewolf physical abilities, regeneration capabilities, transforming powers, and stranger things.  Just look at promenthean powers for a example.

There needs to be one where you play inscrutable tentacled monstrosities who just want to be understood and breed with human women.  This isn't so much a matter of sexism as it is a failure to realize that men have a role in the reproductive system rather than being worker drones.  Alien "intelligences" and what-not.

Quote from: Orphan81;846626It's one of the best explanations for giving Werewolves extra powers. Vampires throughout popular media and folklore have all kinds of different abilities from Mind Control, to Super Strength and Flight, to Animal Control..

Werewolves well....They turn into either giant killer wolves or normal wolves.

But a game where you just shift into a different form, probably isn't going to be fun. Even Dungeons and Dragons has their Fighter types get all kinds of options..

So you have to find a way to give some cool powers to your Werewolves, and well...the wolf, nature, spirit connection is kind of logical for that avenue..

Unless you go with the idea Werewolves are in fact related to Demons and instead give them options for Infernal style magic and abilities.

One of the werewolves in the last game I ran could summon floods. That's not something any non-WoD player would think sounds like a typical werewolf ability. Even just extending their theme to nature (which is fitting) and the wolf's role as predator, there are a whole host of powers that werewolves can draw on. Shapeshifting, enhanced physical traits, different senses, hunting and tracking powers, regeneration, animal control and communication, speed, leaping, stealth, pack coordination, fear. Honestly, it wouldn't have been hard at all to add on a sort of magic on top of that to enhance them more. You could go with Native American lore or Norse berserkers or something like that, but in my opinion giving werewolves some sort of lunar magic would be more thematic. Instead we got spirit fetishes.

The problem is vampires were already given most of the powers werewolves traditionally have, even the ones vampires usually don't have in other media. And of course mages trump everybody. So it leaves werewolves needing truly bizarre powers that don't really fit the archetype just so they have something to do. That's not an inherent problem with werewolves, it's a problem with the way the game was designed and balanced.

It also probably didn't help that werewolves were ultimately completely reliant on spirits for all of their powers. Not only were spirits needed for fetishes, but werewolves weren't even able to learn Gifts on their own. That part was especially irritating to me when I first read it.

Quote from: David Johansen;846635There needs to be one where you play inscrutable tentacled monstrosities who just want to be understood and breed with human women.  This isn't so much a matter of sexism as it is a failure to realize that men have a role in the reproductive system rather than being worker drones.  Alien "intelligences" and what-not.

Well, as long as it got anime style illustrations...
(I kid because I love. Well I don't love tentacle rape but y'know)

Wasn't a game like that made, by that guy, whatshsname? :idunno:

I'm not a big fan of White Wolf but back in the day I loved Werewolf's The Book of the Wyrm. Modern America is fucking Mordor: Big corporations have secret super-hero teams of evil Toxic Avengers, crazy deformed incest werewolves rule Mexico, toys come alive and kill babies for Exxon, and bad guys can get "Genital weapons" as a super-power.

So exquisitely bonkers, like a Troma movie on a $200 million budget. Yet everyone back then ran WW games totally buttoned-up and "Gothic" and serious as cancer. No fun.

Quote from: The Ent;846639Well, as long as it got anime style illustrations...
(I kid because I love. Well I don't love tentacle rape but y'know)

Wasn't a game like that made, by that guy, whatshsname? :idunno:

Vengersatanis or something?

Quote from: TristramEvans;846648Vengersatanis or something?

Either him or the Book of Erotic Fantasy guy, I can't quite remember.

I never did get to play my totally shallow disco vampire who couldn't give a damn about other people's problems.  "Baby, I neeed you to get stoned so your blood will get me stoned, just suck back this line and think happy thoughts, yeah."

More seriously, I think you'd need a better take than a simple angsty supernatural superheroes thing.

I've had some thoughts about it over the years but horror's not really my thing so I've never gotten around to it.

The problem is that rpgs mostly function on archetype and expectation.

If you introduce something new or strange, that generally loses the shallow, non-readers that make up the bulk of the human race and by extension, gamers."

It's hard to get people excited about things they aren't familiar with.

So, anyhow, my thought would be to build a game more along the lines of Lords of Creation wherein you start as an ordinary human but obtain increasing degrees of taint from your contact with the supernatural.  Much of this would map to folklore and mythology but it wouldn't be rigidly tied to it.

I'm not sure if Judeo/Christian divine taint would be a thing or not, because I'm not sure I'd want the mythology to be quite so familiar.  Putting some vampiric abilities into the blood drinking related powers is one thing but angelic songs and demonic pacts are probably out.