Quote from: Brand55;846766I've never read Nightbane, but I've heard good things. How closely does it adhere to the Rifts system? Does it do anything unique that traditional Rifts doesn't?

I ask because we've got Savage Worlds Rifts coming early next year, so theoretically there's one avenue for Nightbane to be converted into a simpler system.

It cleaves closer to Beyond the Supernatural and Recon, as well as Palladium. No MDC and thusly is more or less more compatible with those systems or even TMNT and I think After the Bomb.

I believe it has a smaller or the same skillset as BTS and only a handful of RCCs/OCC/ETCs. Psychic, Nightbane, Sorcerer, Mystic, Nightbane Sorcerer, Nightbane Mystic, (And Doppelganger, Nightlord and other NPC RCCs) as well as some optional PC types like Vampires, Wampires and Guardians.

I prefer Beyond the Supernatural personally. But like Scraypers, Nightbane presents an interesting setting twist.

Quote from: Omega;846708One reason there isnt any major competitors is that White Wolf carved out a niche outside the fantasy realm and pretty much carved it as good as it could get within that niche. It struck just the right balance of nhilism and pessimistic optimism. Anything else was going to feel either too grim or too light.

It's somewhere between urban fantasy and horror. Most urban fantasy games are lighter. And horror games usually don't have the supernatural society part of the game. In those games you usually choose a profession and start investigating weird shit without having to deal with your own kind.

Quote from: tzunder;846717Eden Studios: Witchcrafy, Armageddon, AFMBE, Conspiracy X, Terra Primate

[in declining order of similarity to White Wolf]

They're medium crunch, do urban occult well, and then if you really like Buffy and Angel there are still copies of those in the second hand market.

I am a fan of these. I particularly like Witchcraft and Conspiracy X. I like the writing style. It's no-nonsense and practical in setup. Only drawback I can think off is maybe the somewhat generic setting material. I know GURPS Cabal as well. Both Unisystem and Cabal support different styles of play and different scopes as well. But to be honest they felt a bit like WoD clones tens years too late. And they are now over ten years old and unsupported. That doesn't help either.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;846821It's somewhere between urban fantasy and horror. Most urban fantasy games are lighter. And horror games usually don't have the supernatural society part of the game. In those games you usually choose a profession and start investigating weird shit without having to deal with your own kind.

That too. The social, political intrigue and social networking aspects were another thing that set WW games apart by emphasizing them more. Or at least seeming to.

Another vote for Nightbane.

The Palladium system kinda works for me because I have houseruled it into what works with my GM style and I happily dick kick and cunt punch the damn thing whenever the system gets out of line. PB's opposed combat is great fun and that keeps me coming back.

That said, I have had players who won't touch the PB system who loved playing Nightbane via Savage Worlds or Tri-Stat. There was an LA GM years ago who ran Nightbane via Buffy and that worked fine.

I feel Rifts and Palladium Fantasy loses something intangible when you switch systems, but I have not found that to be an issue with Nightbane.

If you want another vision of WoD? Rock it out via Nightbane.

Quote from: Orphan81;846706Speaking of French based Urban Fantasy RPG's... Steve Jackson games made their own version of In Nomie, which had something of a following in the 90's as well...

Looking back at it...If you wanted to make a competitor to the WoD that was different in it's own way.... Angels and Demons might be the way to go..You could always expand from their with adding Mages as well, as another playable type...

Throw in Vampires and Werewolves, but as lesser beings.

Of course, Angels and Demons might not have the same draw as they did in the 90's...given the continuing falling of religion in the current cultural sphere.

Being an Atheist this doesn't bother me so much, but it's just something I thought of which might impact such a game.

Resident IN SJG fanboi here.

There are "mages" (sorcerers), mummies, fae, werewolves, ghosts, and vampires in the setting. There is also nephilim monstrosities, fantasy creatures, dream fragments, pagan deities, heaven/hellsworn humans, dream ghosts, and "strange unclassified things." They all work from essentially the same core rules. They are all lesser beings to angels and demons in general.

They also only matter to angels and demons by how much they either a) get in their way, or b) bother humanity. Since angels and demons feel it is their duty to discreetly interfere, or limit interference, among humanity, they take a keen interest in anyone else stepping into their domain. Usually other beings quickly learn to avoid celestial attention, for a longer more pleasant life.

Any other questions you'd like answered?

I rather agree with Just Another Snake Cult here the Gothic Punk genre and the Splatterpunk Genre (like the Nightlife RPG) are too dated for the current market and its been mainly replaced with more modern fantasy/paranormal romance and action fantasy.

However back in the day Eden Studios came somewhat close especially during the Buffy era .

The house system "Unisystem" was kind of a love child between WoD and GURPS but ran smoother and faster than either. Cinematic Unisystem is simply amazing.  

They had Witchcraft and its sequel Armageddon  as well as Buffy/Angel/, the late Regency game Ghosts of Albion and a passel of others such as the more or less Coast to Coast AM meets X Files RPG Conspiracy X .

 However between bad personal troubles with the  owners (both of them) and shifts in the market and yes a few poor publishing choices (all fluff books do not sell) they basically faded away.

Its too bad since the Witchcraft Universe is amazingly cool and well suited to the 90's when it 1st came out and to be used with more modern fantasy as well.

They also couldn't quite capitalize on the zombie craze either even though they were the market leader with All Flesh Must Be Eaten

However  the core book for Witchcraft  is free in PDF still and the company is out there, with a little luck they might make a recovery but I personally  think they missed their window to be anything but a niche game.

IN SJG is extremely close to Classic Unisystem. Big difference is, after adding attribute +skill +/-difficulty, you roll 2d6 roll-under with a d6 Degree of Success die, instead of a d10 roll-over 9. The d666 also allows crit success/fails along with its pass/fail and DoS values. And Essence is a shared resource pool as well between both systems.

Quote from: 5 Stone Games;846848They had Witchcraft and its sequel Armageddon as well.
.

Armageddon was really underrated. A goth-metal-Nazi-Gasmask-fetish take on the Biblical Book of Revelations with a little Battle of Britain thrown in. The system was no great shakes, and it would've much better if it was a standalone game without the Witchcraft ties, but it had some of Tim Bradstreet's best artwork ever and the fluff had great atmosphere... even the fiction that opened each chapter was good, and I normally consider fiction in game books a fucking pox.

Wasn't there a Chill source book back in the day for playing monsters? I could see either using Cryptworld as is, or adding from that source book. Granted it would be pretty old school (so to speak) rules wise. Which wouldn't bother me, but others maybe not so much.

A lot of the people who try to muscle in on WW's territory are too much in WW's shadow and the people who aren't too much like WW are often too foreign to get a decent english audience going.

Quote from: Ronin;846858Wasn't there a Chill source book back in the day for playing monsters? I could see either using Cryptworld as is, or adding from that source book. Granted it would be pretty old school (so to speak) rules wise. Which wouldn't bother me, but others maybe not so much.

I purchased Crytpworld and Rotworld myself...and whoo boy, yes...Very Old School.

But then, my introduction to RPG's was Werewolf the Apocalypse 1st edition.

I can't stand 1st ed AD&D myself (at least not if I had to be DM), but I don't think anybody needs to apologize for liking it. If you have a good time with it, cool.

Myself, I might at times have felt a need to 'apologize' for playing Rolemaster. It's been a while, but the players actually liked my last campagn (heavily house ruled).

EDIT: shit this ended up in the wrong thread. Can we move it?

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;846712I'd pay for a solid, popular alternative to Werewolf that ditched the apocalyptic pessimism and character restrictions.

I would, too.  Werewolves have been my all-time favorite monster since I was a wee Gothling, and I was at first excited by the WW announcement that they were doing a werewolf game.  Then, I read it, and was underwhelmed and more than a little disappointed.

I played it anyway, and eventually, it grew on me (but then... so does cancer).  I got some great role-playing experiences out of it, and met one of the all-time best role-players I've ever known through it (he fucking loved W:tA.  Loved. It.), so my only regret is that my itch for a werewolf-as-PC game was never fully scratched.

In fact, this thread has got me making notes for a short game done the way I'd like to see it done.

Quote from: Ronin;846858Wasn't there a Chill source book back in the day for playing monsters? I could see either using Cryptworld as is, or adding from that source book. Granted it would be pretty old school (so to speak) rules wise. Which wouldn't bother me, but others maybe not so much.

Yup, you're thinking of Creature Feature:
http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Feature-Chill-Mark-Acres/dp/0917609247

So many folks have requested to "play as THINGs" in Cryptworld, an appendix with a set of rules for playing as monsters was added to the new Monsters Macabre sourcebook.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1895361773/monsters-macabre-a-sourcebook-for-cryptworld/description