Quote from: bondetampAxis & Allies, it seems.

:heh:

Quote from: Eli the VileWhat gaming system is this

That could apply to almost any not narative based RPG - Warhammer, D20, Hero, Shadowrun, etc...etc...

Quote from: SettembriniSee, whence you begin to claim that only Storytelling Games are the only "real" RPGs, trouble ensues.

I never did. I merely hinted that

QuoteBecause combat is not resolved by DM fiat.
Because there are rules that are the same for everybody, thus task resolution is in itself suspenseful.
Because noone is a "Narrator".
Because there is no railroading.
Because the story develops out of the actions of the players, not the predetermined literary aims of the DM or the group.
Because there is no room for method actors to steal my time.
Because it´s a game, not a writer´s club.

seems to describe a strategy game more than an rpg.

I have, at least, seen more railroading, method acting etc. in D&D than I have in Axis & Allies.

QuoteI never did. I merely hinted that

Just wanted to draw a line in the sand.

QuoteSee, whence you begin to claim that only Storytelling Games are the only "real" RPGs, trouble ensues. Fact is, rules-lite systems take out many "Game qualities" in traditional thinking. Maddman likes it exactly for that qualities, that´s fine.
I´m not discrediting UNISYSTEM. It´s just not my cup o´tea, for good reasons.

Awhile back, Name Lips said something to the effect that I don't back down if I think someone is critisizing my game.  It's not that, really.  I just don't like being misunderstood or mischaracterized.  I get a bit of nerd-rage when people don't know what they hell they are talking about.  For one, Unisystem is not really rules-light.  It's a lot lighter than d20 or Hero or GURPS, but in terms of complexity the Cinematic version is about as complex as World of Darkness.  As for the points you listed, none of them apply.

- Because combat is not resolved by DM fiat.

It's not in Unisystem either.  There are rules, borders, and an end zone.

- Because there are rules that are the same for everybody, thus task resolution is in itself suspenseful.

First, the rules are the same for everyone.  I really don't know what this could be referring to.  Further, you don't seem to understand what suspense is.  Suspense is not generated by not knowing what will happen.  Suspense is when you know exactly what's going to happen, just not when.  But any second now...

- Because noone is a "Narrator".

Again, not sure what you mean by this term.  Even in straight up old school dungeon crawls the GM sets the scene.

- Because there is no railroading.

Railroading is not a property of any system, but of a GM.  Last time someone said all storytelling was railroading it took me a huge thread to prove them wrong.  Please, just take my word for it.

- Because the story develops out of the actions of the players, not the predetermined literary aims of the DM or the group.

Having literary aims or a theme for the game does not prevent the story developing out of the actions of the players.  That's exactly what happens in my games.

- Because there is no room for method actors to steal my time.

Several of my players are actors, but I take effort to make sure the other players are included in the game.  Again, this isn't the property of any game system.

- Because it´s a game, not a writer´s club.

I'm not really sure what you're complaining about here.  You don't want conflcit or drama in your game?  You don't interesting things to be going on?  That's all that means.

I humbly sumbit that you don't know what the fuck.

Tri-Stat (2.0) is better than unisystem because:
- it's effects-based and entirely customizable, indeed you can't play without customizing the rules to your campaign. That means I need to have a clear understanding of what my campaign is supposed to be (a focus that could lead to better games), but it also means that there's no reason to give all weapons something special and differentiating. A sword, an axe, a pole-arm, a wolf's bite, a spell effect could all be treated as having the same stats. The difference is in the description (and possible side-effects for spells, or say reach for pole-arms).

- Fixed damage; you roll attack and defense rolls, and if you hit, you only substract armor from your fixed damage to see how much your hit hurt. Two people rolling once is usually quicker than one guy rolling twice.

- Setting-free; you can play superhero games, medieval fantasy, real-world accountancy – whatever. Just customize it to your liking.

However, Tri-Stat has one major flaw: the free rules are an older edition, and the publisher GoO misses every publishing date it can, meaning that the fall 06 date for the new rules is extremely unlikely.

Edit: One final reason: When reading A Game of Thrones Tri-Stat, I immediately wanted to play it, while when reading the Buffy RPG, I was entertained but content to put it on my shelf (even though, I have five or six books from Buffy).

Quote from: Technicolor DreamcoatEdit: One final reason: When reading A Game of Thrones Tri-Stat, I immediately wanted to play it, while when reading the Buffy RPG, I was entertained but content to put it on my shelf (even though, I have five or six books from Buffy).

That's the best reason in the whole thread so far IMO.  

QuoteI humbly sumbit that you don't know what the fuck.

I don´t think so.
Still you made some points, surely many things depend on the DM. But remember "System Matters". And you said, there was only one fight and that was over quick. To me that would be awfully boring.
 
It surely can be, that the way you game is full of conflict. But my taste for conflict is definitely on the detailed side, not some sort of meta conflict.
 
I have a lot of gaming experience as a player and DM under my belt. I´ve never seen any Wushu, HKAT, Buffy, GURPS etc. that I found interesting. If it´s not pseudo realistic (Harnmaster/Traveller) or outright HighFantasy Gamism, I just don´t care for it anymore.
I respect you finding conflict in HighSchool Drama, loaded up with some Witchcraft. Respect me finding it boring, if there is neither research done for the
 
a) "realistic" accuracy (think FF&S or NATO Vehicle Guide by GDW)
nor the
b) game balance aspects (D&D 3.5)
 
I can "Storytell" with a Pizza as a system, as long as the Anchovis doesn´t get into my way. But then I´m highly dependant on the DM and his l33t st0rytelling skillz.
I´ve seen enough self proclaimed "artistes" trainwrecking an evening with their attempts of "creating a collaborative story". You might be a good artiste, but that will not be because of your so-called system.

Quote from: Technicolor DreamcoatTri-Stat (2.0) is better than unisystem because:
(cut stuff I agree with)

- Fixed damage; you roll attack and defense rolls, and if you hit, you only substract armor from your fixed damage to see how much your hit hurt. Two people rolling once is usually quicker than one guy rolling twice.

Unisystem has an option for fixed damage in combat - basically, instead of rolling you go with the 'average' damage for each weapon, which I remember being listed next to each weapon.  (This was true in the AFMBE book, at least.)  Additionally, we're playing that way in our online Buffy game, so either it's an option for Buffy or it's an easily used house rule.  (Of course, damage is still modified by strength and degree of success, but you don't have to roll damage on top of that if you don't want to.)

I've long been a fan of GoO's products, but I've got to say that the first edition of Tri-Stat really hasn't done anything for me.  I'm hoping when I finally get around to picking up Ex Machina or Dreaming Cities that it boosts my interest some.

Quote from: MaddmanThat's the best reason in the whole thread so far IMO.  

I took this thread more as a "why do you like your favorite system", and I'm not above pimping it at every opportunity. But Unisystem's certainly not bad; a gib point in my reluctance is me being afraid my group (me included) would not be able to live up to the standards of the show. We're not that ad-libbingly competent.

Quote from: jcfialaI've long been a fan of GoO's products, but I've got to say that the first edition of Tri-Stat really hasn't done anything for me.  I'm hoping when I finally get around to picking up Ex Machina or Dreaming Cities that it boosts my interest some.

I found the first version to have an interesting idea, but the implementation wasn't to my liking. What I've seen from AGoT is, however, that the new edition has been severely revamped (which is why I always cringe when people point to the free rules), and for the better. You roll high, for one thing (2d6 + Stat + Attribute/Skill against a set number). It seems GoO used their making d20 games to streamline some things.

@Maddman: I´m not attacking Unisystem at all. Be happy with it. But anything with rules on the "detail" level of WoD is just not for me.
Gimme Armored Wagons or
At least Chromatic Dragons.

Quote from: Technicolor DreamcoatI took this thread more as a "why do you like your favorite system", and I'm not above pimping it at every opportunity. But Unisystem's certainly not bad; a gib point in my reluctance is me being afraid my group (me included) would not be able to live up to the standards of the show. We're not that ad-libbingly competent.

What I've found is that Buffy's sensibilities are close enough to the typical gamer's that you can simply take all the out of character jokes and references and they suddenly become perfectly appropriate in-character references.  I mean Monty Python jokes, action movies, superhero or videogame references are all appropriate and can even earn you drama points.

I understand the feeling though.  Game of Thrones looks awfully pretty, but I just don't think I could do it justice.

Quote from: Technicolor DreamcoatI found the first version to have an interesting idea, but the implementation wasn't to my liking. What I've seen from AGoT is, however, that the new edition has been severely revamped (which is why I always cringe when people point to the free rules), and for the better. You roll high, for one thing (2d6 + Stat + Attribute/Skill against a set number). It seems GoO used their making d20 games to streamline some things.

Well, unfortunately unless you're a fan of AGOT (which I'm not), the free rules are all you can look at.  However, that does sound better, and it fits what I've heard rumored about BESM 3rd.

Personally, I've started to dispair that BESM 3rd will ever appear, but we'll see.

Quote from: jcfialaWell, unfortunately unless you're a fan of AGOT (which I'm not), the free rules are all you can look at.  However, that does sound better, and it fits what I've heard rumored about BESM 3rd.

Personally, I've started to dispair that BESM 3rd will ever appear, but we'll see.

Yeah; GoO is kind of slow.