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I have hesitated to purchase, what otherwise appears to be an awesome game; because of those oddball dice.


***Edit: OK, I Bought The Book.***

The DCC RPG explains that it attempts to make D&D feel "new again" which meant to them adding back mystery and certain struggles. One of struggles being to find the dice you needed to play the game, hence the funny shaped dice.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.crawlers&hl=en_US

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-crawlers-companion/id597725801

The free app makes life a little easier for tables with a limited number of books and dice.

QuoteWhen Joseph Goodman was asked about the inclusion of these funky dice in DCC by Suvudo he replied that he simply liked funky dice. In the interview he goes on to say that part of the nostalgia surrounding old-school gaming is related to the unusual dice of the time. Back when the d20 and d4 were unusual to the old-school gamer. As time has come on those types of dice have become "normal". DCC RPG attempts to bring some of the nostalgia back by using these funky dice that are even new to a lot of us long timer gamers.

http://irontavern.com/2012/07/02/dcc-funky-dice/

I really liked the funky dice. It was  good excuse to get a couple of sets. And nowadays, a set of funky dice is just a few clicks away.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=zocchi+dice&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Quote from: Razor 007;1096295I have hesitated to purchase, what otherwise appears to be an awesome game; because of those oddball dice.

If you already own hundreds, what is a few more? You already admit you are not above buying absurd numbers of dice. I don't get the objection. Have twp sets and we have been playing almost all 5E. My favorite is the R-P-S die.

Yea, the dice were a pain in the butt to acquire (especially if you don't live in the US for shipping) but I got some as they are pretty much required.  Substituting regular with multiple rolls causes weird bell curve effects.

Ironically I feel if they had just gone with a more unique dice set like Genesys or some other systems, the backlash would have been less as people like collecting funky dice.  Rather, owning almost all the dice required but needing the few extra seems to stick in people's craw a lot.

In group play, I ended up using the Purple Sorcerer app more than the dice themselves as having it calculate all the specific table results makes it possible to get the extra juice from the specific results without bogging down the game pace:  It really is the saving grace that makes DCC run as well as it can in a physical group environment.  

One could almost argue that rolling the dice is just an odds mechanic and it really doesn't matter how the results are obtained, despite the mystique and magic people put on physically rolling the plastic bits.  Would be interesting to see a poll on how many find that physical dice interaction an essential part of the role-playing experience these days.

I saw they just recently made an official rule system on Fantasy Grounds so one could almost use that on a laptop behind the screen for all their rule checks and forego buying the hardcover.  Being as I might try some remote play with friends I'm glad Goodman Games finally relented and provided this option as I felt they were never going to get on-board with VTT play which is becoming more popular every year.

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1096299If you already own hundreds, what is a few more? You already admit you are not above buying absurd numbers of dice. I don't get the objection. Have twp sets and we have been playing almost all 5E. My favorite is the R-P-S die.

The strange dice fad happened over 40 years ago.  That's not a part of the game I want to recreate.  He chose to do that on purpose.


***Edit: OK, I Bought The Book.***

You have greatly overestimated God's concern about dice...

I have been on the fence about buying his cool game at least 3 or 4 times now; and every time I hesitate because, "aw shit, that's the game that uses those oddball dice.....".


***Edit:. OK, I Bought The Book.***

Because someone needed to use all those dice shaped like snowflakes.

It's worth buying DCC for the flavour and spectacle alone. The artwork is a crazy mix of old rpg fanzine style art and the kind of adolescent artwork I scrawled all over my books in the '80s. Plus it's a big tome and just a guilty pleasure to read.
If you never play it, it's still a great read and likely to inspire that vibe in whatever system you are playing, whether OSR or otherwise. I kinda imbued that dark gonzo vibe into a BRP MagicWorld game after reading thru DCC, and I think the game was much better for it.

I am looking forward to running a few DCC cheesy hack & slay games sometime. I really want to start the players with a bunch of 0-Level toons and put them through a funnel game to see which ones survive to become their Level 1 PCs. Such a different concept from many contemporary non-OSR games these days, I am just itching to go back to a few games like that.

If you ever do play DCC, then you can always use a mobile device dice roller app to cover the rolls for the dice you don't have. If you play it a few times you'll either shelve the book again as an rpg oddity, or you'll be likely to splash out on some funky dice.

In any case, DCC is such a fun rulebook to have in any rpg collection :cool:

I finally got DCC last month--after waiting several years in part because of the funky dice.  Though in fairness, the main reason I was waiting was that I didn't think I'd get a chance to play it, whereas now I might.  

One of the things that decided me is that lately I've been running a lot more games, for a more varied set of groups.  My style is to sometimes randomly determine who will be targeted by some attack, effect, etc. So having a d5, d7, etc. is not necessarily a bad thing.  Though the funny part is that since I got DCC, all my gaming groups have had an even number of players show up for each session. Also, I've been picking on people when they roll a string of bad rolls.  "You want a d24 instead?  How about a d30?  With your luck, you'll probably still roll a 1."  That gets me a nasty look. :)

Outside of my GM eccentricities, I'm very happy to have bought the game.  It's not old school D&D.  Rather, it's a slice of old school D&D turned up to 11.  In that sense, having even more weird dice is strangely compelling.  The only thing wrong with it is that  in a game turned up to 11, they didn't include a d11.

I don't get all the gripes about buying a handful of extra dice... easily obtainable these days and useful for other purposes outside of DCC. It seems like it should be a non-issue when most gamers I know have gone out of their way to collect an assload of dice, some that they've paid good bit of money for in metal, or with themed decoration.

As it is, in all the games I've played of DCC the 'funky' dice don't really come into play all that often... usually it's when some roll shifts up or down the dice chain, or when some bizarro spell hits.

Quote from: Razor 007;1096295I have hesitated to purchase, what otherwise appears to be an awesome game; because of those oddball dice.

Game didn't pass muster for me either because dice. Back when I was looking for ultimate D&D system.

Quote from: Simlasa;1096309I don't get all the gripes about buying a handful of extra dice... easily obtainable these days and useful for other purposes outside of DCC. It seems like it should be a non-issue when most gamers I know have gone out of their way to collect an assload of dice, some that they've paid good bit of money for in metal, or with themed decoration.

As it is, in all the games I've played of DCC the 'funky' dice don't really come into play all that often... usually it's when some roll shifts up or down the dice chain, or when some bizarro spell hits.

I kind of get the complaint. I've only ever seen those dice carried in a local FLGS once, and it was at an exorbitant mark up. I had to order mine online, where I found them pretty cheap.

I love that game just for the art alone. The system actually looks a bit clunky to me, though in all fairness I haven't played or ran it yet.

Betcha people were bitching about D&D's "funky dice" when it first game out too. Without the introduction of funky dice, we'd be stuck playing d6 systems solely. Besides, aside from DCC, other RPGs use special dice. Fate/Fudge and the new Star Wars one off the top of my head.

Quote from: sniderman;1096334Betcha people were bitching about D&D's "funky dice" when it first game out too.

I know that in the mid-70's those funky polyhedral dice were hard to get, so for the whole group we had maybe 1-2 sets for a long time. The only place you could order non-d6 dice were straight from TSR and they were this soft plastic that tended to wear out with play. Sure, it was a pain to get and they were expensive, but they did make the game kind of neat at the time.

An online inflation calculator tells me that a $5 dice set in 1975 would cost $23.24 in 2018 dollars. Using that same logic, and knowing that the original polyhedral dice sets were only 5 dice (so a buck a die) a full DCC dice set of 14 dice, had it existed at the time, would have been 14 soft dice and cost around $14 in 1975. That would translate to over $65 per set in 2018, and with lesser quality than current dice sets. A quick search on Amazon gives me DCC style sets for under $20, which is quite the deal all things considered.

https://www.amazon.com/Green-Unusual-Approved-Dungeon-Classics/dp/B00YLTHFJA/ref=asc_df_B00YLTHFJA/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241960275266&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1598776062212287797&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021604&hvtargid=pla-648483236520&psc=1

Also, consider that you do NOT need to use actual DCC dice in order to play the game. The online dice roller was already mentioned. You could use chits in a cup.

One method is to simulate dice with other dice combinations:
d3 can be done with a d6 (1-2, 3-4, 5-6)
d4 is a straight roll
d5 can be done with a d10 (1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-0)
d6 is a straight roll
d7 can be done with a d8, reroll 8's.
d8 is a straight roll
d10 is a straight roll
d12 is a straight roll
d14 is done like the d7, with a high/low control die (high means add 7)
d16 is done like the d8, with a high/low control die (high means add 8)
d20 is a straight roll
d24 is done like the d12, with a high/low control die (high means add 12)
d30 is done with a d10, with a high/med/low control die (which means +20/+10/+0)

A bit of a pain? Perhaps, but when I did a playtest of DCC for around a year we did it without funky dice. It can be done.

Quote from: sniderman;1096334Betcha people were bitching about D&D's "funky dice" when it first game out too. Without the introduction of funky dice, we'd be stuck playing d6 systems solely. Besides, aside from DCC, other RPGs use special dice. Fate/Fudge and the new Star Wars one off the top of my head.

I don't buy any of those systems, either--except Fudge I found on sale and bought to see what the fuss was about.  I'll never play it.  

Basically, "funky dice" is a hurdle to entry, but not a very large one--IF you are interested enough in the underlying game.  For Star Wars?  Funky dice is just one of the reasons I don't want it, but the collective list adds up to a "Hell No!"--and the dice are a small part of that.

To the OP

Possibly for shits and giggles. Possibly to be different for the sake of it. More than likely to make more money of the fanbase. As long as the dice actually do add value at least to the gameplay of the rpg then having so many funky dice would be worth. I think my theory of milking gamers makes more sense. For those saying other games have funky dice yes Fate and Star Trek Adventures do. Except what those same posters fail to say is that fate I can take a bunch of D6s and work around having to buy the Fate Dice. Star Trek Adventures D20 and D6. How many other rpgs have the exact same dice that I can use in the place of the usually DCC Dice. I thought so none.

Even the Star Wars FGG Dice are cheaper to buy on Amazon: https://www.amazon.ca/Star-Wars-Edge-Empire-Dice/dp/1616616598/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=star+wars+dice&qid=1563540060&s=gateway&sr=8-5 and I qualify for free shipping.

Vs

DCC Dice: https://www.amazon.ca/Dungeon-Crawl-Classics-Shannas-Weird/dp/1946231924/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Dungeon+Crawl+classics+dice&qid=1563539951&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Not only more expensive I even have to pay 10$ in shipping to get some sent to me. The only saving grace is that they are somehow cheaper to buy at my LGS for 29$ before tax.

So I totally get why some like myself may not want to get the rpg because of the dice. They ain't cheap, unlike many other rpgs one cannot use existing dice as one has to more funky dice, and they can be hard to get. Yes their are apps pointing me to them is just showing how more annoying those damn dice are. If I have to buy or download an app to use them it is not exactly a selling point in favor of the rpg

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1096310Game didn't pass muster for me either because dice. Back when I was looking for ultimate D&D system.

Agreed and seconded. I was the only one in our gaming group that may have bought the book. The rest don't like any rpg that has funky proprietary dice.

Quote from: Simlasa;1096309As it is, in all the games I've played of DCC the 'funky' dice don't really come into play all that often... usually it's when some roll shifts up or down the dice chain, or when some bizarro spell hits.

The dice chain is an interesting concept. I've used something like it in my homebrew Transformers RPG, until I switched to d20. I still keep a dice chain/step system for damage and some tests.

They are regular numbered dice. They are not specific to the game.

I feel like there is a large difference between these dice or things like Genesis or the Star Wars version of it. I don't buy dice just for one game.

I have had need of a d7 since I got the dice.

The comparisons people are drawing are wrong. Being turned off to a game because it requires more dXs is fine. Equating that with games that have game specific dice sets with weird pictures on them is wrong.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1096353They are regular numbered dice. They are not specific to the game.

I feel like there is a large difference between these dice or things like Genesis or the Star Wars version of it. I don't buy dice just for one game.

Yeah, I'd see the complaint if they were some proprietary wierdness sold only by Goodman, but they're not. I think mine were from Koplow... and they were cheap.
I've used them for various purposes in other games, such as B/X and Dark Heresy.

I had a harder time, and spent more, finding Fate/Fudge dice.

Quote from: Simlasa;1096309I don't get all the gripes about buying a handful of extra dice... easily obtainable these days and useful for other purposes outside of DCC. It seems like it should be a non-issue when most gamers I know have gone out of their way to collect an assload of dice, some that they've paid good bit of money for in metal, or with themed decoration.

As it is, in all the games I've played of DCC the 'funky' dice don't really come into play all that often... usually it's when some roll shifts up or down the dice chain, or when some bizarro spell hits.

Because I shouldn't have to go buy special dice to play D & D by another name, when I already have a pile of D & D dice.  Perhaps it's an excellent rendition of D & D; but it's D & D, nonetheless.

And my FLGS doesn't sell them.


***Edit: OK, I Bought The Book.***

Quote from: Razor 007;1096364Because I shouldn't have to go buy special dice to play D & D by another name, when I already have a pile of D & D dice.  Perhaps it's an excellent rendition of D & D; but it's D & D, nonetheless.

So you only own as many dice as you need to play D&D? Just one or two basic sets of polyhedrals? Maybe a black set and a white one?
When it comes to dice, the guys at our Wednesday night games are like Imelda Marcos was with shoes. The GM has a lamp  with a base filled wth D20s, the guy next to me has multiple sets of the pretty (and dangerous) anodized metal dice.
Any excuse that buying some DCC dice goes beyond what you "need" seems like puffery to me... unless you really are that single set of dice aescetic.

The standard D&D at least now are nowhere as expensive. Depending on the quality and the company producing the dice. For one set of DCC dice I can buy 4-6 regular sets of
D&D dice.

So sure I may have many sets of D&D dice none of them cost around 28-40$ Canadian. Nor require me to either buy online or hope that my gaming store carries it.

Quote from: sniderman;1096334Without the introduction of funky dice, we'd be stuck playing d6 systems solely.

I am still stuck with them! Fortunately Stockholm's set in a few decades ago so I'm okay with it.

Quote from: sureshot;1096367So sure I may have many sets of D&D dice none of them cost around 28-40$ Canadian. Nor require me to either buy online or hope that my gaming store carries it.

The sets we use were roundabout $10 U.S. IIRC.
Plus you could use the workarounds in the rules if you don't have them... or use the free dice roller app (which has other uses as well). Seems like a non-issue.

Quote from: sureshot;1096367TDepending on the quality and the company producing the dice. For one set of DCC dice I can buy 4-6 regular sets of D&D dice.

Also remember that you can buy individual dice. You don't need a whole matching set. Just buy the d3, d7, d14, d16, and d24. Five dice can't cost too much. That's how I finally assembled my first DCC RPG dice set. In fact, after all these years I actually only have one matching "official DCC" set of the dice.

I guess if dice are that much of a deal-breaker, my advice would be to pass on DCC. I personally think the rules are neat, the modules are really creative, and the game overall is a lot of fun. But it's not worth it to buy a game that will stress you out too much.

It is not a deal breaker.

I just think they could have done the same kind of rpg with the standard D&D dice. For many it really is truly a deal breaker some of them on my gaming group. I can't purchase the rpg only for it to be a pretty dust catcher either.

Like Sir Edmund Hillary, "Because it's there!" :D

That said, yeah, it was off putting for me for awhile. Thankfully The Crawler app exists, so I can just run that and move on. It is quite well done as dice rollers come. :)

Quote from: finarvyn;1096398Also remember that you can buy individual dice. You don't need a whole matching set. Just buy the d3, d7, d14, d16, and d24. Five dice can't cost too much. That's how I finally assembled my first DCC RPG dice set. In fact, after all these years I actually only have one matching "official DCC" set of the dice.

I guess if dice are that much of a deal-breaker, my advice would be to pass on DCC. I personally think the rules are neat, the modules are really creative, and the game overall is a lot of fun. But it's not worth it to buy a game that will stress you out too much.

I bought a variety of weird dice over time because they seemed interesting and I still have no rules that call for them. (Besides unusual numbers of sides, I have a twelve sided die with zodiac symbols; a fourteen sided with the days of the week twice; an eight sided die with eight compass directions; a thirty sided die with letters (and four sides having -, to either roll again or use as a wildcard).) But I've never bought dice that were specific to one game like the Star Wars dice. If you buy hundreds of dice but don't want dice with a weird number of sides then clearly you shouldn't buy them, and that might mean not buying an otherwise interesting game. Magic missile dice numbered 2 to 5 (to roll d4+1) were a step too far for me.

We used to roll all of those odd combinations back when - choose an orc at random when there were seven of them, say. And then d20s were numbered 0 to 9 twice, so you had to roll a d6 for high or low (1,2,3 it was 1 to 10 - counting 0 as 10 - and 4,5,6 it was 11 to 20). Most rolls of d3 are probably still done with a d6 (1 or 2 means 1 on the d3; 3 or 4 means 2 on the d3; 5 or 6 means 3 on the d3), although cubes numbered 1 to 3 twice don't seem very uncommon.

You can use the first method to get d16 or d24: roll d6 for high or low and then d8 or d12 (add 8 or 12 respectively if it's in the high range).

You can get d7 by rolling d8 and rerolling 8s. Yes, there's a slight chance of making a large number of rolls. Once you have d7, you can roll d6 for high or low like for d16 or d24 in order to get d14.

Quote from: Simlasa;1096358Yeah, I'd see the complaint if they were some proprietary wierdness sold only by Goodman, but they're not. I think mine were from Koplow... and they were cheap.
I've used them for various purposes in other games, such as B/X and Dark Heresy.

I had a harder time, and spent more, finding Fate/Fudge dice.

Fate and Fudge dice are actually different.

Fudge dice have the "-"s and "+"s on opposite sides why Fate dice have them adjacent.

I really like DCC. Been playing in a weird west campaign, but put me in the camp of those who see the extra dice as gimmicky. Dice chains are kind of cool, but they add yet another layer of complexity.

It's not a deal breaker though. DCC is awesome, I can deal with funky dice.

Quote from: Razor 007;1096295I have hesitated to purchase, what otherwise appears to be an awesome game; because of those oddball dice.

Long time lurker here. This is the first time I thought I might contribute something.

All the answers given above are legit. And they all ring hollow. I stayed away from DCC forever because of the dice. But then I got the game and the real, less obvious reason for the dice made perfect sense to me.

As a game master I have an excellent low crunch tool for adjudicating odd situations. If you are trying to shoot an enemy ducking in and out of cover I'll make you roll a d16 instead of your usual 20. Does your enemy have slow reflexes because you drugged him? Roll d24 to hit.

Moving up and down in the dice chain is so much slicker than the advantage disadvantage mechanics of other games.

Personally I like it. And I bought dice from gamenerdz pretty inexpensively YMMV. You can also buy DCC in paperback from them for $17. So for less than $50 you can run this game. And brother it's metal.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1096409Fate and Fudge dice are actually different.

Fudge dice have the "-"s and "+"s on opposite sides why Fate dice have them adjacent.

Goddamit! Now I need to go buy another set!

I never bought the 'official' DCC dice, I think they're kinda fugly... mixing roman numerals to discern the D3, I'd rather use a different colored die.

I really fucking hate games that use unusual dice (i.e. unusual to standard RPG dice).

Let me tell you why. I live in Brazil, and in order to get RPG books, I usually have to buy them from Amazon US. I never liked translated books, and in any case they haven't translated D&D for some time here (last translation was D&D 3.5 IIRC).

Now, this is not normally a big issue, since Amazon's shipping is not terribly expensive if you order a substantial weight (if you buy an individual book, just kill yourself), and we have no import fees for books. So RPG books for me cost Amazon price plus 5-8 dollars for shipping, times 4 for the conversion between the Dollar and the Real (my local currency). My standard is doing two purchases a year, one in june and one in december.

However, dice do have an import fee, and that is 50%, and they are almost never sold by Amazon itself, but rather individual sellers through Amazon, and these charge way more for shipping stuff over here. So, to give you a concrete example, if I wanted to buy a basic set of the funky dice for DCC, there are packs in Amazon right now that go for about 10 dollars. Shipping amounts to another 17. Then the import tax adds 50% of the total cost, which means if I want those dice shipped to me, I'll have to pay about 40 dollars.

For six dice.

Fuck that noise.

Now, I do happen to own a copy of DCC, but when I bought it, it never even crossed my mind to check if the game used funky dice, and when I found out I was not amused. Ever since that particular purchase, I've watched out for this particular detail like a hawk, and try to avoid games that use special dice as if they were the plague itself.

In the vein of bitching about dice, anyone else absolutely hate proprietary dice? That's a hard no from me, I flat will not buy a game that uses them.

Quote from: Arkansan;1096433In the vein of bitching about dice, anyone else absolutely hate proprietary dice? That's a hard no from me, I flat will not buy a game that uses them.

Yeah, I don't mind buying weird dice that I can see additional uses for (DCC)... but it's harder to sell me on dice with odd symbols that I can ONLY buy from the company making the game.

Quote from: Simlasa;1096434Yeah, I don't mind buying weird dice that I can see additional uses for (DCC)... but it's harder to sell me on dice with odd symbols that I can ONLY buy from the company making the game.

How this any different than myself and others complaining about the DCC dice.

I'm assuming unless mistaken that your either talking about the Fate Core and Star Wars Dice.

Both use existing dice. Fate uses D6 and Star Wars uses existing D&D dice. I can get the Star Wars Dice for 19$ before tax from my LGS. I did get the Fate core from the same place though their website is shit and I'm not going to look through pages and pages of dice. Both can be found easily at Amazon.com and cheaper as well.

If their other rpgs that require to get them direct from the company let me know as I have always been able to buy them at the LGS.

Though I will concede without dice rollers the Star Wars dice are annoying to myself at least to use.

Count me among those who have been deterred from playing DCC by the dice. Bought and read the book, and I'm intrigued enough to want to play. But adding $35 CDN to the price (with shipping) is enough of a hassle that it keeps DCC on the shelf along with other systems that don't make it to the table. And of course that's just for one set. If we actually played more than a handful of sessions, we'd want to get more dice.

I know you can use online dice rollers, etc. But the real question is why use those weird dice in the first place? They add nothing to the game. The DCC dice fail badly in a cost / benefit analysis. And I'm sure they've deterred hundreds of otherwise interested gamers from playing DCC.

Quote from: sureshot;1096449How this any different than myself and others complaining about the DCC dice.

It's right there in my comment... if I can use the 'weird' dice in some other game, in some way, then they don't bug me. But if the dice are all images of possums and cherries... not so much.
I've used most all my DCC dice in games of B/X... rolling on encounter charts, deciding who gets the monster's attentions... whatever. They're still just basic dice with numbered faces.
Even buying the Fate/Fudge/Whatever dice didn't bug me... whereas the possum and cherry dice might... a little... though not enough to keep me from playing a game I had an actual interest in (I'm not interested in any of the possum/cherry games that I know of).

Quote from: Haffrung;1096454And I'm sure they've deterred hundreds of otherwise interested gamers from playing DCC.

yes, the game has failed horribly and we can only hope they've learned their lesson...

One of the companies that makes those funky dice also have run multiple Kickstarter campaigns to 'fill in' the missing dice. Check out this Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/dous-dice-of-unusual-size-d21-d36-pulse-and-alphab). If you start getting the fill in dice, it starts to get pretty hard to tell them apart.

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1096431I really fucking hate games that use unusual dice (i.e. unusual to standard RPG dice).

Let me tell you why. I live in Brazil, and in order to get RPG books, I usually have to buy them from Amazon US. I never liked translated books, and in any case they haven't translated D&D for some time here (last translation was D&D 3.5 IIRC).

Now, this is not normally a big issue, since Amazon's shipping is not terribly expensive if you order a substantial weight (if you buy an individual book, just kill yourself), and we have no import fees for books. So RPG books for me cost Amazon price plus 5-8 dollars for shipping, times 4 for the conversion between the Dollar and the Real (my local currency). My standard is doing two purchases a year, one in june and one in december.

However, dice do have an import fee, and that is 50%, and they are almost never sold by Amazon itself, but rather individual sellers through Amazon, and these charge way more for shipping stuff over here. So, to give you a concrete example, if I wanted to buy a basic set of the funky dice for DCC, there are packs in Amazon right now that go for about 10 dollars. Shipping amounts to another 17. Then the import tax adds 50% of the total cost, which means if I want those dice shipped to me, I'll have to pay about 40 dollars.

For six dice.

Fuck that noise.

Now, I do happen to own a copy of DCC, but when I bought it, it never even crossed my mind to check if the game used funky dice, and when I found out I was not amused. Ever since that particular purchase, I've watched out for this particular detail like a hawk, and try to avoid games that use special dice as if they were the plague itself.

I'm from Brazil as well. The good news for us is this: DCC has been translated into portuguese, and is currently available right here, in 3 different cover versions plus adventures and the GM screen! Yay!

...But the publisher does not currently sell the dice sets. :rolleyes:

Personally, the best part of DCC is the funnel. It's been the most fun part of DCC sessions, yet actually barely uses any of the funky dice or most of its rules.

As for the funky dice, it was a smart marketing gimmick. Most players love rolling funky dice. It sets DCC apart from the ocean of competitors in a cheap and easy manner, especially now there are apps.

Personally, I never liked D&D odd dice. I'm happy with D20s and D6s, but if DCC was more fun at 1st level and higher, the weirdo dice wouldn't keep me from playing.

I am surprised WotC did not translate 4e and 5e into Portuguese!

Smart for DCC to get translated.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1096488I am surprised WotC did not translate 4e and 5e into Portuguese!

Smart for DCC to get translated.

As I said in a different thread, the twin hammers of 4E and the 2008 recession hit the local market hard, and translations essentially disappeared over the next few years.

And then the market simply never picked back up again...

Quote from: RF Victor;1096480I'm from Brazil as well. The good news for us is this: DCC has been translated into portuguese, and is currently available right here, in 3 different cover versions plus adventures and the GM screen! Yay!

...But the publisher does not currently sell the dice sets. :rolleyes:

Well, I already have DCC, and like I said before I don't really like translated books.

I think my last RPG book in portuguese is a copy of GURPS 2nd Edition. :D

Quote from: Haffrung;1096454Count me among those who have been deterred from playing DCC by the dice. Bought and read the book, and I'm intrigued enough to want to play. But adding $35 CDN to the price (with shipping) is enough of a hassle that it keeps DCC on the shelf along with other systems that don't make it to the table. And of course that's just for one set. If we actually played more than a handful of sessions, we'd want to get more dice.

I know you can use online dice rollers, etc. But the real question is why use those weird dice in the first place? They add nothing to the game. The DCC dice fail badly in a cost / benefit analysis. And I'm sure they've deterred hundreds of otherwise interested gamers from playing DCC.

And if hundreds of people have avoided DCC because of the oddball dice; then after a few years time, that actually equates to thousands of people not experiencing the game.


***Edit:. OK, I Bought The Book.***

Quote from: Spinachcat;1096487Personally, the best part of DCC is the funnel. It's been the most fun part of DCC sessions, yet actually barely uses any of the funky dice or most of its rules.

I good point. I love a good DCC funnel! I've had zeroes die in all sorts of ways just trying to get to the dungeon. I'm not sure I'd want to have every adventure be a funnel, but they are a blast.

Can't get the dice? Use chit draw, like the old basic D&D set advised!

Quote from: sureshot;1096449Both use existing dice. Fate uses D6 and Star Wars uses existing D&D dice. I can get the Star Wars Dice for 19$ before tax from my LGS. I did get the Fate core from the same place though their website is shit and I'm not going to look through pages and pages of dice. Both can be found easily at Amazon.com and cheaper as well.

What put me off on the funky symbols for FFG Star Wars is that I really hated the reading experience. It is a compound issue as I have gotten a bit of license fatigue with both Star Wars and Star Trek both.

I guess it is a wash when it comes to actual utility. Does an unusual dice type add some value other than being different?

I initially disliked the idea of buying the DCC dice and agree that it likely detracts many from buying it. I got over it because the DCC game itself is outlandish in its own way and that 'charmed' me.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1096409Fate and Fudge dice are actually different.

Fudge dice have the "-"s and "+"s on opposite sides why Fate dice have them adjacent.

Hmm ... there are six distinct arrangements of 2 +, 2 - and 2 blank on a cube (identifying arrangements where the cube with one can be rotated to match the other). That means there are four arrangements left to claim.

Back around 1980 someone in our group had a spinner instead of dice. I thought it was a great idea - it would be able to roll all those weird numbers. But, no, it was marked for the usual dice only. What a waste.

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1096431However, dice do have an import fee, and that is 50%, and they are almost never sold by Amazon itself, but rather individual sellers through Amazon, and these charge way more for shipping stuff over here. So, to give you a concrete example, if I wanted to buy a basic set of the funky dice for DCC, there are packs in Amazon right now that go for about 10 dollars. Shipping amounts to another 17. Then the import tax adds 50% of the total cost, which means if I want those dice shipped to me, I'll have to pay about 40 dollars.

For six dice.

Next modern RPG I play, my character is going to be a dice smuggler.

They're presumably not trying to protect the domestic dice industry from foreign competition, or you'd be able to buy the dice without import. So what's the point? Dice are associated with gambling and get a vice tax? They're a luxury good? It's only a low fee compared to the fee on books, which are thought to be educational (and luckily they don't vary the fee depending on the book's subject)? Too few people wanting dice to get them to change it?

I really respect the honesty of Goodman's reply ("I like funky dice").

I put of playing the game for years because of those funky dice (i dont give bezos money the past 3 years), and my FLGS got some, so I played it.  It is pretty good.  Really good so far, but i can see some possible complications as levels rise.  I would say give the funky dice and the game a try.  Enjoying it alot.

Quote from: cranebump;1096650I really respect the honesty of Goodman's reply ("I like funky dice").

Me too. DCC is A-to-Z his own vision for his own RPG and it just happened that many people agreed with his vision.

It's not my cuppa tea, but I respect Goodman's "I made the game I wanted for myself, hope you like it too" attitude.

Quote from: rawma;1096599Next modern RPG I play, my character is going to be a dice smuggler.

They're presumably not trying to protect the domestic dice industry from foreign competition, or you'd be able to buy the dice without import. So what's the point? Dice are associated with gambling and get a vice tax? They're a luxury good? It's only a low fee compared to the fee on books, which are thought to be educational (and luckily they don't vary the fee depending on the book's subject)? Too few people wanting dice to get them to change it?

Almost everything is taxed when imported here. Books are one of the very few exceptions, because they are considered "culture". Films aren't "culture" however, since trying to buy DVDs or Blue-rays on Amazon will slap a 100% tax on them.

Brazil is, in many ways, a modern country stuck in the 1700s.

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1096773Almost everything is taxed when imported here. Books are one of the very few exceptions, because they are considered "culture". Films aren't "culture" however, since trying to buy DVDs or Blue-rays on Amazon will slap a 100% tax on them.

Brazil is, in many ways, a modern country stuck in the 1700s.

If you (or someone you knew) visited the US and returned, or someone visited Brazil, could they bring a large supply of odd dice "for personal use" without being taxed? (Just asking as background research for my future dice smuggler character. ;))

Quote from: rawma;1096599Next modern RPG I play, my character is going to be a dice smuggler.

They're presumably not trying to protect the domestic dice industry from foreign competition, or you'd be able to buy the dice without import. So what's the point? Dice are associated with gambling and get a vice tax? They're a luxury good? It's only a low fee compared to the fee on books, which are thought to be educational (and luckily they don't vary the fee depending on the book's subject)? Too few people wanting dice to get them to change it?

Brazil taxes EVERYTHING to hell and back, except books. The tax amount is usually 60% plus an extra fixed fee, and that's calculated over the price of the merchandise PLUS SHIPPING! When buying something stocked by Amazon the price simply doubles. 100% tax. So let's say I find a set of DCC dice stocked by amazon:

Dice - 30
Shipping - 10 (Amazon Global)
"Import Fees Deposit" - 40

So that's 80 dollars. Or 300 Reais, our currency. To put things in perspective -- the Pathfinder 1st Edition book costs 180 Reais here. The LOTFP core book, 93 Reais. The brazillian box set with all Harry Potter books costs 140 Reais...

Quote from: RF Victor;1096841Brazil taxes EVERYTHING to hell and back, except books. The tax amount is usually 60% plus an extra fixed fee, and that's calculated over the price of the merchandise PLUS SHIPPING! When buying something stocked by Amazon the price simply doubles. 100% tax.

What is the government's justification for this? It is something I always wondered about. Selling computer stuff into Brazil was always an issue.

Quote from: RF Victor;1096841Brazil taxes EVERYTHING to hell and back, except books. The tax amount is usually 60% plus an extra fixed fee, and that's calculated over the price of the merchandise PLUS SHIPPING! When buying something stocked by Amazon the price simply doubles. 100% tax. So let's say I find a set of DCC dice stocked by amazon:

Dice - 30
Shipping - 10 (Amazon Global)
"Import Fees Deposit" - 40

So that's 80 dollars. Or 300 Reais, our currency. To put things in perspective -- the Pathfinder 1st Edition book costs 180 Reais here. The LOTFP core book, 93 Reais. The brazillian box set with all Harry Potter books costs 140 Reais...

This seems like an argument against some countries taxes, and not the funky dice directly.

Quote from: rawma;1096781If you (or someone you knew) visited the US and returned, or someone visited Brazil, could they bring a large supply of odd dice "for personal use" without being taxed? (Just asking as background research for my future dice smuggler character. ;))

Depends on how innocent you look.

People returning from abroad are screened by customs officials when they arrive. Some are obviously exceeding their maximum alloted value of tax-free imports (which is 500 dollars), like the guys that insist on bringing home 5 TV sets because reasons. Others are coming back with expensive yet small stuff, like iPads or watches. If they can effectively make it look innocent, then they get away with it. However, if you say you have nothing to declare (tax-wise) and then get caught slipping stuff in between a few shirts in your luggage, you get to pay the full tax, plus a fine equivalent to at least the whole cost of the product again.

Your "dice smuggler" would have to be a sweet-talking genius to be able to convince the customs officials that his bag filled to the brim with 50 "Pound-o-Dice" baggies are all for personal use. :D

Quote from: Lynn;1096855What is the government's justification for this? It is something I always wondered about. Selling computer stuff into Brazil was always an issue.

Justification? HAHAHAHA....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3614[/ATTACH]

The government around here has never found it necessary to justify much to the population.

P.S.: In all seriousness, the original provisions for taxing imports date all the way back to the foundation of the republic in 1889, and were specially reinforced with the Vargas dictatorship of 1930-45. The reasoning was, and in large part remains, the protection of local industries. It doesn't matter that many of the imported products are not, and never were, produced locally.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1096856This seems like an argument against some countries taxes, and not the funky dice directly.

In part.

Yes, generally this is an argument that my country's import taxes suck ass and should (but never will) be abolished entirely.

However, it remains a fact that this will discourage or outright prevent certain games from ever getting a foothold over here, since the average gamer will not be able to scrounge up the extra money needed to get said funky dice (or, as in my case, will simply decide that money can be better spent somewhere else).

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1096863In part.

Yes, generally this is an argument that my country's import taxes suck ass and should (but never will) be abolished entirely.

However, it remains a fact that this will discourage or outright prevent certain games from ever getting a foothold over here, since the average gamer will not be able to scrounge up the extra money needed to get said funky dice (or, as in my case, will simply decide that money can be better spent somewhere else).

Pff just carve your own dice like the government wants you too.

With all that sugar cane being processed for ethanol, and beef production, and latex... there should be industrial waste to create plastics. What's stopping anyone from buying a mold (or reverse engineering the mold from a cast) and then supplying one's own national plastic for injection to start their own cottage industry of bootleg Zocchi dice? :D

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1096861Your "dice smuggler" would have to be a sweet-talking genius to be able to convince the customs officials that his bag filled to the brim with 50 "Pound-o-Dice" baggies are all for personal use. :D

Well, that would be a good specialization for the character, although I'm not necessarily set on "successful dice smuggler". :)

Fifty pounds of dice would be a lot, but I've met more than a few players who carry around amounts of dice for their own use that non-gamers would not believe.

The weirdo dice are cool.

But if you don't want to own them, you can download the Crawler Companion App for free, and use its dice roller.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1096889With all that sugar cane being processed for ethanol, and beef production, and latex... there should be industrial waste to create plastics. What's stopping anyone from buying a mold (or reverse engineering the mold from a cast) and then supplying one's own national plastic for injection to start their own cottage industry of bootleg Zocchi dice? :D

The two to five years of bureaucracy (yes, we measure bureaucracy in time units here, not amount) necessary to create such a business legally. All the taxes, permits, taxes, concessions, taxes and other necessary things (like taxes) will also cost you a tremendous amount of money.

Creating your own business here in Brazil is worthy of a D&D campaign....no, strike that, a Cthulhu campaign.

***OK, I Bought The Book.**"

Very cool artwork.  Very evocative.  Highly motivational, thematically.

Quote from: BronzeDragon;1096960The two to five years of bureaucracy (yes, we measure bureaucracy in time units here, not amount) necessary to create such a business legally. All the taxes, permits, taxes, concessions, taxes and other necessary things (like taxes) will also cost you a tremendous amount of money.

Creating your own business here in Brazil is worthy of a D&D campaign....no, strike that, a Cthulhu campaign.

... wait, so even street vendors take years to set up? :eek: That's way worse than the Balkanized Bureaucratic Circus of SF Bay Area (which, all things considered is not bad, just no "one stop shopping" gov't office. Everyone want their little fiefdom to tell you what to do -- but I would safely recommend our street vendors here without hesitation (even more given what I've learned gow thorough it is). ;)

That said I now want a Kafkaesque bureaucratic Call of Cthulhu adventure, and Brazilian small business vendor sounds awesome! :D What if we wrote it up, in Portuguese and also in English, and printed it for the Brazilian market? How many years would a 16 page comic floppy module take? :)

Granted the shipping is cheaper here in Canada where I live. At least Brazil is further geographically away from the USA. Canada and the US are next to each other how the fuck do they justify the shipping costs is beyond me.

Quote from: sureshot;1097256Granted the shipping is cheaper here in Canada where I live. At least Brazil is further geographically away from the USA. Canada and the US are next to each other how the fuck do they justify the shipping costs is beyond me.

I am reminded of something the CEO of a macOS developer / publishing company said to me when I asked why their macOS version of their product was 30% more expensive than the Windows version. The answer was:

"Because we can."

Quote from: sureshot;1097256Granted the shipping is cheaper here in Canada where I live. At least Brazil is further geographically away from the USA. Canada and the US are next to each other how the fuck do they justify the shipping costs is beyond me.

That's what happens when you have a government monopoly. The U.S. post office is heavily regulated, which involves not just price fixing (for example, Congress must pass a bill before the first class mail rate can be raised, and they're very reluctant to do so), but also heavy subsidies (for instance, huge corporations like Alibaba ship packages to the U.S. for a fraction of what U.S. companies pay to ship packages domestically, because China is considered a developing country), all kinds of weird restrictions (e.g. revenue neutral requirements by class of mail), mandated costs (like those sweet pensions, or how they can't close any of those tiny little post offices because muh jobs even though they make zero financial sense), and of course mandated service (allowing companies like FedEx and UPS to compete only in the lucrative package business while ignoring the loser side of the business like delivering mail every day to every house). As a result, the USPS has very few places where they can raise prices to make up the money they're bleeding elsewhere because of political meddling. That's why international shipping rates went through the roof a half a dozen years ago.

Quote from: Pat;1097272That's what happens when you have a government monopoly. The U.S. post office is heavily regulated, which involves not just price fixing (for example, Congress must pass a bill before the first class mail rate can be raised, and they're very reluctant to do so), but also heavy subsidies (for instance, huge corporations like Alibaba ship packages to the U.S. for a fraction of what U.S. companies pay to ship packages domestically, because China is considered a developing country), all kinds of weird restrictions (e.g. revenue neutral requirements by class of mail), mandated costs (like those sweet pensions, or how they can't close any of those tiny little post offices because muh jobs even though they make zero financial sense), and of course mandated service (allowing companies like FedEx and UPS to compete only in the lucrative package business while ignoring the loser side of the business like delivering mail every day to every house). As a result, the USPS has very few places where they can raise prices to make up the money they're bleeding elsewhere because of political meddling. That's why international shipping rates went through the roof a half a dozen years ago.

Amen, brother. I am so tired of junk mail. I think that they should raise the cost of mail to $1 per letter and eliminate all corporate and political discounts. Everybody pays the same cost for a letter. I suspect that a lot of the junk mailings would go away quickly.

I have a similar thought about e-mails. Charge a person a tenth of a penny per e-mail. I'll bet that most of us would hardly notice the cost, which would probably be only a couple of bucks per year for many of us. But when a SPAMmer wants to send our crap to 100,000 people it would cost them $100. That would probably solve the SPAM problem, too.

Oh, and you kids -- get off of my lawn! :)

DCC is a different kettle of fish.  I'm reading and soaking it up.  My first assessment, is that it's like a better presentation of 1st Edition AD&D.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1097240I now want a Kafkaesque bureaucratic Call of Cthulhu adventure, and Brazilian small business vendor sounds awesome! :D

My dice smuggler character is standing by to supply small business vendor characters. :)

Jesus fuck, just download the Crawler Companion app for your phone and stop complaining about the dice. It's the best RPG app ever made AND it has a dice roller for all the damn dice.

Also, what kind of gamers complain about dice?

Because there's not such a thing as having too many dice? :D

Quote from: everloss;1097388Jesus fuck, just download the Crawler Companion app for your phone and stop complaining about the dice. It's the best RPG app ever made AND it has a dice roller for all the damn dice.

Also, what kind of gamers complain about dice?

Your tone sucks somewhat; but I just downloaded the crawler app you mentioned, and it does indeed rock.  Thanks!!!  Good recommendation, for sure.

Quote from: rawma;1097360My dice smuggler character is standing by to supply small business vendor characters. :)

It sounds so illicit! Contraband funky dice and unlicensed snack food sellers. :p All we need is tax cheat soda resellers and we can make gaming outré and cool again! :D

Quote from: RPGPundit;1096943The weirdo dice are cool.

But if you don't want to own them, you can download the Crawler Companion App for free, and use its dice roller.

Yes, it is a good solution.  Good app to have, regardless.

I'm not completely antithetical towards "weird" dice, but then again I still consider D20s/D12s/D4s weird.

I like the "regulars," particularly D6s. They make me feel like I can game anywhere at any time; buy a set at the gas station for 2 bucks, or steal some from a rarely-used Yahtzee set (I've done this before).

That said, I've never had a 'problem' buying weird dice for any game, really. Should they interest me enough to want to play, that is. I vastly prefer physical dice to digital rollers so I certainly understand people not wanting to take the plunge if they're living in a place that makes ordering dice a somewhat exorbitant endeavor.

Yes, using Platonic solids besides the old D6 was fun back in 1974. But I'm not playing games today for dice nostalgia. In fact the last two games I've GMed only use D6s.

Quote from: finarvyn;1097287I have a similar thought about e-mails. Charge a person a tenth of a penny per e-mail. I'll bet that most of us would hardly notice the cost, which would probably be only a couple of bucks per year for many of us. But when a SPAMmer wants to send our crap to 100,000 people it would cost them $100. That would probably solve the SPAM problem, too.

Hey your lawn looks pretty good. What are you using to keep down the dandelions? :)

I want at least half the charge to the sender to go to the receiver, i.e. to me. If junk mailers want to pester me they should pay me for the privilege. Then let's do the same thing for robocalls, only up the charge from $.001 per piece to $.10 per call. Then we can also go back to saying stuff like "It's your dime, talk!"

Quote from: Bren;1097527I want at least half the charge to the sender to go to the receiver, i.e. to me. If junk mailers want to pester me they should pay me for the privilege. Then let's do the same thing for robocalls, only up the charge from $.001 per piece to $.10 per call. Then we can also go back to saying stuff like "It's your dime, talk!"

Your idea is even better than mine! +1 to that! :D

Quote from: everloss;1097388Also, what kind of gamers complain about dice?

I was wondering this myself.  I had all the odd dice before DCC came out, in fact everyone in our RP group does, just because we had to have them.

Quote from: Razor 007;1097393Your tone sucks somewhat; but I just downloaded the crawler app you mentioned, and it does indeed rock.  Thanks!!!  Good recommendation, for sure.

I was cranky. Glad I could help.

Between the Name Table, Title Table, Occupation and Trained Weapon Table,  Fumbles Table, Critical Hit Tables, etc.; I can see some spontaneous DCC inspired gaming in my near future, even if I don't embrace the entire DCC ruleset.

Crap.  I bought the book.  Then I downloaded the crawler phone app.  Now I've ordered a set of the 14 different dice.  This stuff is like a disease!!!

Quote from: Razor 007;1097735Crap.  I bought the book.  Then I downloaded the crawler phone app.  Now I've ordered a set of the 14 different dice.  This stuff is like a disease!!!

(https://edowarsblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/dcc-wizard-1.jpg?w=450)

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1097741(https://edowarsblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/dcc-wizard-1.jpg?w=450)

Well played.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1096297The DCC RPG explains that it attempts to make D&D feel "new again" which meant to them adding back mystery and certain struggles. One of struggles being to find the dice you needed to play the game, hence the funny shaped dice.

That's hilarious! :-D

And DCC is getting talked about, regardless.

I think you are going to be very happy with the purchase.  It reads differently than it plays IMO.  It plays fast, and really fun. It does take a few times for players with low level chars a few sessions to realize,  they can pull off some things that are pretty awesome, and they will have to, because if you buy some of goodman games's modules (as a side note, their quick start rules are very handy to have for quick reference and helping new people grasp the game) you are going to be pretty surprised at some of the things the adventures put in front of low level chars.

I have wanted to pull and tug on D & D a little bit, to see what changes are possible.  Dungeon World went in one direction, and DCC has gone in a different direction.

Personally ive had more fun with
DCC than ive had i  a long time, so i didnt mind picking up some extra dice. I like how the di e chain works going straight from a d29 to a d12 if your moved down one level is probably too big a jump.

Quote from: Slambo;1097945a d29 to a d12

I must have this d29!  Where can I get it?! ;-)

Quote from: DocJones;1098116I must have this d29!  Where can I get it?! ;-)

Only Sezrekan possesses a d29.

Lol oops, didnt notice i hit 9 instead if 0, stupid fat fingers and this tiny  touchscreen.

Quote from: DocJones;1098116I must have this d29!  Where can I get it?! ;-)

It's your d30 with no underline or dot to demarcate the difference between its 6 and 9. :p

Rolling up level Zero characters, right now.

After considering the pros and cons of all 7 classes in DCC; Elf seems to be all Pro, except for being vulnerable to Iron?  Assuming you roll up an Elf via the d100 Occupation table, why wouldn't you be rooting for your Elf character to survive Level Zero?

As a GM; I'd make their vulnerability to Iron, be their kryptonite.

Quote from: Razor 007;1098296After considering the pros and cons of all 7 classes in DCC; Elf seems to be all Pro, except for being vulnerable to Iron?  Assuming you roll up an Elf via the d100 Occupation table, why wouldn't you be rooting for your Elf character to survive Level Zero?

As a GM; I'd make their vulnerability to Iron, be their kryptonite.

Wizards start off with one more spell per day (2 by the end), a familiar, and their luck bonus on corruption rolls rather than a single sorry.

Also the chance of rolling both decent mage stats and an elf background is far lower than human.

The oddball / funky dice have arrived.  Now I can add a d3 to my Warrior's d20 attack rolls at level 1.

Quote from: Razor 007;1098397The oddball / funky dice have arrived.  Now I can add a d3 to my Warrior's d20 attack rolls at level 1.

Eh? Isn't a d3 just half a d6? 1-2 = 1, 3-4 = 2, 5-6 = 3 No?

I know, but now I actually have a d3.

Quote from: Razor 007;1098443I know, but now I actually have a d3.

But that's impossible! Unless... They marked a d6 with only 1, 2, 3 having two sides of each in such a way that the odds are about even.

Yeah, it's a d6 with Roman numerals 1-3 twice.


I'm lucky, my group has multiple sets of funky dice, so I just borrow the ones I don't have.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098446But that's impossible! Unless... They marked a d6 with only 1, 2, 3 having two sides of each in such a way that the odds are about even.

I know!!!  Haha!!!

I can't wait to let those funky dice fly!!!

Quote from: Robyo;1098448Yeah, it's a d6 with Roman numerals 1-3 twice.


I'm lucky, my group has multiple sets of funky dice, so I just borrow the ones I don't have.

Why in God's name would anybody buy that dice? Do they sell you the full pack only? can't you get the other funky dice at a store piece by piece? Need to check if my store sells those.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098451Why in God's name would anybody buy that dice? Do they sell you the full pack only? can't you get the other funky dice at a store piece by piece? Need to check if my store sells those.

Because (to quote Barbie) "Math is hard." :rolleyes:

Quote from: Bren;1098465Because (to quote Barbie) "Math is hard." :rolleyes:

LOL, I got into the hobby by playing the best Star Wars game ever WEG Star Wars. Have Barbie trying to play with a pool dice system :D

WEG D6 is great!

I don't need a d3, but I wouldn't mind having a six-sided averaging die with sides 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5. Sure I can use a regular d6, but the translation table is not intuitive.

Quote from: Bren;1098472WEG D6 is great!

I don't need a d3, but I wouldn't mind having a six-sided averaging die with sides 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5. Sure I can use a regular d6, but the translation table is not intuitive.

Get a plain die, one of those that come with stickers, remove the stickers and replace them with those numbers. Other option buy a square wood stick of about the size of a die, cut one die from it (making sure the sides are correct) and burn/carve the numbers in it.

edit to add, yes WEG D6 is great, and I hadn't noticed your signature :D

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098473Get a plain die, one of those that come with stickers, remove the stickers and replace them with those numbers. Other option buy a square wood stick of about the size of a die, cut one die from it (making sure the sides are correct) and burn/carve the numbers in it.

Stickers would work. But what I really want is dice without stickers. Making my own dice exceeds my tool set and most likely my skill set. On consideration it would have been more accurate to have said I'd like some averaging dice that look like some of my other dice, but not enough to take the time and trouble to make the dice myself. :)

The d7 is very oddly designed.  It only landed on 7, 7 times in 100 rolls.  It should have landed on 7, at least 14 times in 100 rolls; on average.

I love the new, more rounded d4 design; without any sharp points.

The d24 and d30 roll like crazy.  Better not roll them hard; they will leave the table.

Quote from: Razor 007;1098627The d7 is very oddly designed.  It only landed on 7, 7 times in 100 rolls.  It should have landed on 7, at least 14 times in 100 rolls; on average.

That's not how dice probabilities work.  I forget the exact formula, but to check for bias you need more rolls than that, and then (I think) calculate if you are outside the standard deviation.  7 out of 100 on a d7 is likely well within those parameters.

To put it another way, if you roll a d7 100 times, the chances that each number will come up between 13 and 15 times is relatively tiny.  You are much more likely to have at least one or two outliers.

Quote from: Bren;1098524Stickers would work. But what I really want is dice without stickers. Making my own dice exceeds my tool set and most likely my skill set. On consideration it would have been more accurate to have said I'd like some averaging dice that look like some of my other dice, but not enough to take the time and trouble to make the dice myself. :)

Maybe you could convince someone to modify one of these designs (https://www.thingiverse.com/explore/newest/toys-and-games/dice/page:3)?

Thanks

Quote from: Razor 007;1098627The d7 is very oddly designed.  It only landed on 7, 7 times in 100 rolls.  It should have landed on 7, at least 14 times in 100 rolls; on average.

That means nothing, I just generated a few sets of 98 d7s (using a spreadsheet's RNG), and ran a chi-square test on the results. This is one of the results:

(Number of 1s thru 7s, respectively): 18, 13, 15, 17, 14, 15, 6

That's only six 7s, out of 98 rolls. Yet that set easily passes the 90% confidence level test (it's about 63%). If you rolled your die and got that set, we'd have to conclude there's no evidence of bias.

If you really want to test your die, run a chi-square test.

Quote from: Bren;1098465Because (to quote Barbie) "Math is hard." :rolleyes:

Or OCD. I like my dice to show the actual result, if at all possible. (before mods)

Quote from: Pat;1098680That means nothing, I just generated a few sets of 98 d7s (using a spreadsheet's RNG), and ran a chi-square test on the results. This is one of the results:

(Number of 1s thru 7s, respectively): 18, 13, 15, 17, 14, 15, 6

That's only six 7s, out of 98 rolls. Yet that set easily passes the 90% confidence level test (it's about 63%). If you rolled your die and got that set, we'd have to conclude there's no evidence of bias.

If you really want to test your die, run a chi-square test.

No, you just verified my initial results.  We each got half or less of the expected 7 results on a d7.  That is a strong coincidence.  It's indicative of a flawed design.

Now, if your shorted number had not been 7; I'd agree with you.

Quote from: Razor 007;1098684No, you just verified my initial results.  We each got half or less of the expected 7 results on a d7.  That is a strong coincidence.  It's indicative of a flawed design.

Now, if your shorted number had not been 7; I'd agree with you.

Absolutely not.

As I stated, I used a RNG, a random number generator. Not a physical die. And I wasn't testing the RNG to see if it was fair, I only used it to get a few sample sets that I could run through the chi-square test, to see what type of arrays come up as biased and which do not. So how I generated it is irrelevant, the array I provided with the 6 is not biased. Ergo, you rolling a physical d7 100 times and getting seven 7s doesn't indicate your die is biased.

Quote from: Pat;1098687I used a RNG, a random number generator.

Evidently, a flawed one....

Just kidding.

Quote from: Pat;1098687Absolutely not.

As I stated, I used a RNG, a random number generator. Not a physical die. And I wasn't testing the RNG to see if it was fair, I only used it to get a few sample sets that I could run through the chi-square test, to see what type of arrays come up as biased and which do not. So how I generated it is irrelevant, the array I provided with the 6 is not biased. Ergo, you rolling a physical d7 100 times and getting seven 7s doesn't indicate your die is biased.

But does it pass the casino craps table test for a fair die? :D

I posted a link to this recently about X-Wing miniatures and biased dice.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1alv05cXh0WhNaFPoq3LNzxmv6veurf6utV1kMQAYDQw/edit

What I took away from it-
Mass produced dice can, and likely do, have a bias large enough to affect an evening's worth of play.
The amount of bias is small (5ish percent) and varies from dice to dice. One dice might favor a "hit"  more, and another dice might favor a "blank" more.
The amount of testing to detect bias is far beyond what I'm willing to do (tens of thousands of rolls) to maybe find a dice that rolls 20's, 2% more likely.
Mix up your dice during a game, so that if you do have biased dice, it isn't the same bias over the course of an evening.
Which fits nicely into many gamer's dice superstitions about switching out dice that roll "cold". :D

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1098692I posted a link to this recently about X-Wing miniatures and biased dice.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1alv05cXh0WhNaFPoq3LNzxmv6veurf6utV1kMQAYDQw/edit

What I took away from it-
Mass produced dice can, and likely do, have a bias large enough to affect an evening's worth of play.
The amount of bias is small (5ish percent) and varies from dice to dice. One dice might favor a "hit"  more, and another dice might favor a "blank" more.
The amount of testing to detect bias is far beyond what I'm willing to do (tens of thousands of rolls) to maybe find a dice that rolls 20's, 2% more likely.
Mix up your dice during a game, so that if you do have biased dice, it isn't the same bias over the course of an evening.
Which fits nicely into many gamer's dice superstitions about switching out dice that roll "cold". :D

If I remember correctly there was a company called GameScience selling what they claimed were fair dice for TTRPGs.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098691But does it pass the casino craps table test for a fair die? :D

All we have is one face's worth of results for a tiny number of rolls, we can't really say whether the die is fair or not. All we can say is there's no evidence that it's unfair.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098696If I remember correctly there was a company called GameScience selling what they claimed were fair dice for TTRPGs.

With sharp edges.

If you get enough of their d4s, you have an effective pursuit deterrent.

Quote from: Pat;1098704snip


With sharp edges.

If you get enough of their d4s, you have an effective pursuit deterrent.

Ouch! Well then they aren't getting any of my money, not worth it for what? a 2-5% bias tops?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098708Ouch! Well then they aren't getting any of my money, not worth it for what? a 2-5% bias tops?

Regular dice can be pretty biased, the manufacturing processes can leave extrusions and bubbles, and rounding the edges makes it worse.

But people are awful at judging bias. You could have hideously biased dice, and never notice. Or completely fair dice, and because of selective memory, you think they're lucky or jinxed. Unless you rigorously test your dice, with no fudging, you'll never know. And that's actually quite a bit of work.

It's not worth worrying about that much.

Quote from: Pat;1098710Regular dice can be pretty biased, the manufacturing processes can leave extrusions and bubbles, and rounding the edges makes it worse.

But people are awful at judging bias. You could have hideously biased dice, and never notice. Or completely fair dice, and because of selective memory, you think they're lucky or jinxed. Unless you rigorously test your dice, with no fudging, you'll never know. And that's actually quite a bit of work.

It's not worth worrying about that much.

I happen to know a little bit about mold making and plastic injection, you can make your dice rounded from the start, IF we could make it here in México with regular mold making processes, then in the USA with cutting-edge tech there's no excuse.

About making them fair, this is also solved from the mold design fase, what you need is to have each side weight the same and to have several really thin injection cones.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1098708Ouch! Well then they aren't getting any of my money, not worth it for what? a 2-5% bias tops?

The sharp edges are part of what makes them fair. So yea, pick either biased dice (small bias at that) or sharp dice.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1098718The sharp edges are part of what makes them fair. So yea, pick either biased dice (small bias at that) or sharp dice.

It's the easiest way to make them fair, not the only one, again it's about precision mold making.

Way late to this party, and I admit I haven't read the thread, but the funky DCC dice always struck me as a gimmick. Personally, I could do without it, but I don't consider it that big a deal (not a deal breaker, by any means). You can generate the appropriate random numbers with regular dice without difficulty.

Considering how hard it was for me to acquire even "standard" polyhedral dice, I must admit that non-standard dice is a pretty big cons for me, though the game itself looks pretty solid.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;1098750Way late to this party, and I admit I haven't read the thread, but the funky DCC dice always struck me as a gimmick. Personally, I could do without it, but I don't consider it that big a deal (not a deal breaker, by any means). You can generate the appropriate random numbers with regular dice without difficulty.

Way late as well, and they are a gimmick, but a fun one. The fact that the app roller exists as a free download sort of mitigates this issue. I prefer actually rolling dice, though, so I finally bought a set from Amazon, think they were $15. Or as you stated, just get a chart and use "regular" dice.

I find this entire argument ridiculous, anyway, as if you bought a boardgame that required some sort of paraphernalia not included (and clearly stated on the box), you'd buy it to play the game.

In terms of gimmicky accessories you need to play a game, I don't particularly mind if it's just weird dice (though as I said earlier, I prefer vanilla D6 games generally); I draw the line at games like WHFRP 3e, with all the little fucking tokens, playmats, cards, etc. That I will not stand for with a roleplaying game.

Board games are a different beast, where part of the appeal is in the weird little tactile doodads and the mechanics they're linked to. Plus, you never need to buy more doodads because they're presumably boxed with the game anyway (save expansions, etc.) unlike an RPG, where if it heavily relies on that shit then if you want more players at the table, need more monsters, treasure cards, whatever then you HAVE to buy more shit (assuming they still even make them; hope you got everything you needed before the edition change!).

Quote from: Brad;1098886Way late as well, and they are a gimmick, but a fun one. The fact that the app roller exists as a free download sort of mitigates this issue. I prefer actually rolling dice, though, so I finally bought a set from Amazon, think they were $15. Or as you stated, just get a chart and use "regular" dice.

I find this entire argument ridiculous, anyway, as if you bought a boardgame that required some sort of paraphernalia not included (and clearly stated on the box), you'd buy it to play the game.

Not including everything needed for play inside a boardgame, (except pencils and paper) would be a poor marketing decision.

I get the complaint about dice I mentioned earlier.  I think though, especially in the case of FLGS, they REALLY should stock funky dice if they are going to sell DCC.   I have had DCC for years and am loathe to buy things online (I have 3 very good game stores within 45 minutes of my house, and do all I can to support local business) and like to see things and then buy them.  I get no store wants to carry items that burn shelf space, but in this case, you can always make the up sale with the dice and the book.  One of the stores stocked the dice, so I gave it a try with the group.  It's great.  BUT as to the board game comparison, I would expect all components in the board game, but more importantly I would expect the tools to play the game to be in the store I bought the game.  I have looked for those dice in 8 different stores in 3 different states, and finally they show up after 4 years.

The d7 is not nearly as well designed for good rolling and fair, random results; in my opinion.  It's a clunky thing, that looks like a tumor.  I think all the others, (d3, d5, d14, d16, d24, & d30) are just fine.

You'd probably get more fair, random results by rolling a d8 instead; and rerolling on an 8.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1098890In terms of gimmicky accessories you need to play a game, I don't particularly mind if it's just weird dice (though as I said earlier, I prefer vanilla D6 games generally); I draw the line at games like WHFRP 3e, with all the little fucking tokens, playmats, cards, etc. That I will not stand for with a roleplaying game.

Board games are a different beast, where part of the appeal is in the weird little tactile doodads and the mechanics they're linked to. Plus, you never need to buy more doodads because they're presumably boxed with the game anyway (save expansions, etc.) unlike an RPG, where if it heavily relies on that shit then if you want more players at the table, need more monsters, treasure cards, whatever then you HAVE to buy more shit (assuming they still even make them; hope you got everything you needed before the edition change!).

I was instantly a "no thanks" for Warhammer when I found out what a ROLEPLAYING GAME required; I agree.

Quote from: Razor 007;1098901Not including everything needed for play inside a boardgame, (except pencils and paper) would be a poor marketing decision.

Sure, it would be. But suppose you're selling a game in the UK...it's my understanding that VAT is applied differently depending on what's included in the box. Maybe you purposefully leave some component out to get around this?

Quote from: Razor 007;1098907The d7 is not nearly as well designed for good rolling and fair, random results; in my opinion.  It's a clunky thing, that looks like a tumor.  I think all the others, (d3, d5, d14, d16, d24, & d30) are just fine.

You'd probably get more fair, random results by rolling a d8 instead; and rerolling on an 8.

Is that the "funky" d7 with the pips? Or the 14 sided dice with 1-7 printed twice on the facings? I tend to like the d14/d7 better.

---

I've been waititng for Gamescience to get more "ugly dice" in stock. I'm gonna order a set today. Just to have some truly ugly old school dice. :D

(https://resources.nobleknight.com/Catalog/Images/240/240/0/1/0/GMS1112S1112K.jpg)

The VAT concept, just plain sucks.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1098909Is that the "funky" d7 with the pips? Or the 14 sided dice with 1-7 printed twice on the facings? I tend to like the d14/d7 better.

Mine is the 7 sided die, that's very odd looking.  I'd much rather have a d14 with 1-7 on it twice.  That, would roll much better.

I have noticed, the dice I have (official DCC dice) and one of players have are shaped quite differently.  His to me seem to roll the more funky results, mine look like polygonal dice, some of his, not so much.

At least games that have some kind of special dice have some snowflake mechanic to try to justify it, wether stupid or not (....mostly stupid). Buying dice just for the "experience" of buying  new dice? That is some pretty daft cargo cult consumerism right there. And gods know I have indulged my fair share in consumerist  crap in this hobby. It reeks of someone being obnoxiously pretentious.

Otherwise the game looks fine. It's not my preference since it doesn't add anything I feel lacking in my D&D/OSR games (plentiful of weirdness and randomness in old D&D already) but I can understand the vision. I like much of the artwork.

Quote from: Teodrik;1098919At least games that have some kind of special dice have some snowflake mechanic to try to justify it, wether stupid or not (....mostly stupid). Buying dice just for the "experience" of buying  new dice? That is some pretty daft cargo cult consumerism right there. And obnoxiously pretentious. Otherwise the game looks fine.

Everyone knows that a d30 rollchart, is 50% better than a d20 rollchart.......

Quote from: Razor 007;1098920Everyone knows that a d30 rollchart, is 50% better than a d20 rollchart.......

aha...but the d60 chart is 100% superior to puny d30 chart. :p

Quote from: Teodrik;1098926aha...but the d60 chart is 100% superior to puny d30 chart. :p

Noooooo!!!!!!!!

Quote from: Razor 007;1098939Noooooo!!!!!!!!

I guess d1000 would really be the shiznit.

Quote from: Razor 007;1098940I guess d1000 would really be the shiznit.

It's rolling, rolling, rollling... rolling, rolling, rolling... rolling, rolling, rolling...

Okay who wants to take a coffee break while we wait this for this nearly perfect sphere to come to a stop?

Quote from: Razor 007;1098627The d24 and d30 roll like crazy.  Better not roll them hard; they will leave the table.

I have one of those d100 die which will roll forever unless you use a dice tray.

Quote from: DocJones;1098980I have one of those d100 die which will roll forever unless you use a dice tray.

I got a walled dice tray that cures the big number dice problem.

Sort of off topic, but I just picked up one of the 7 piece themed dice sets for the Pathfinder adventure path; Tyrant's Grasp.  Very DCC appropriate, in my opinion.  I wish it was a larger set, with more dice; but the look is very good.

Quote from: Lynn;1099031I got a walled dice tray that cures the big number dice problem.

I too greatly prefer rolling dice in a walled tray.  One of my favorites is a 3" deep bamboo bowl, with a flat bottom within and without.  Another favorite is a felt lined paper tray, for 8.5" x 11" paper.

I rolled up Ability scores for 24 characters.   3d6, straight down the line.  ONE 18 was rolled, and only two 17's.  10's and 11's were almost celebrated.  One character has a 4 Constitution.

Quote from: Razor 007;1099119I too greatly prefer rolling dice in a walled tray.  One of my favorites is a 3" deep bamboo bowl, with a flat bottom within and without.  Another favorite is a felt lined paper tray, for 8.5" x 11" paper.

I have the plain jane Easy Roller Dice Tray (https://easyrollerdice.com/collections/dice-trays) and it works well enough, though Id sure like to have one with the lid and edge storage. The felt lining tends to pick up household fuzz.

I picked up the hardcover, Lhankmar boxed set and set of dice at Dragonflight. Really enjoying what I'm reading. TONS of cool ideas in here with fantastic flavour. The chaps from Goodman Games were super helpful too.

I just picked up yet another DCC dice set; so I now have 2 sets of the "Mustachioed Magician" DCC dice.

I didn't need to start another dice obsession......

Quote from: Razor 007;1099949I just picked up yet another DCC dice set; so I now have 2 sets of the "Mustachioed Magician" DCC dice.

I didn't need to start another dice obsession......

And so their evil plan to conquer the world advances :D

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1099956And so their evil plan to conquer the world advances :D

One mustache at a time.

[video=youtube;eYaftoxf31M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYaftoxf31M[/youtube]

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1099956And so their evil plan to conquer the world advances :D

Exactly.

Quote from: trechriron;1099861I picked up the hardcover, Lhankmar boxed set and set of dice at Dragonflight. Really enjoying what I'm reading. TONS of cool ideas in here with fantastic flavour. The chaps from Goodman Games were super helpful too.

Can you post more about tbis in my Lankhmar thread? Thanks!

I like that the Warrior gets to roll an extra die; improving his chance to hit, when making physical attacks.  The die type rolled for this gets larger as the Warrior increases in level, too.

Quote from: Aglondir;1099984Can you post more about tbis in my Lankhmar thread? Thanks!

Of course!