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Why I think Gurps and Hero are having popularity problems

Started by danbuter, April 21, 2012, 09:02:02 PM

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gleichman

#90
April 23, 2012, 08:10:27 PM Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 08:24:39 PM by gleichman
Quote from: The Butcher;532982I have very little experience with HERO, and all of it 4e.

What changed between 4e and 5e?

This is just for character generation.

The lost of figured characteristics caused huge point inflation. There were other negative impacts, but I leave them for you to find.

There were a number of core rule changes as well. Everyone got Missile Deflection free for example. It's been a while, so I hope you won't mind if I don't detail them all.

Opps, that's between 5th and 6th, not the 4th and 5th you requested. Old information, but lots of the powers changed. Basically point inflation to buy stuff in 5th that was cheaper in 4th- the changes weren't as serious as 5th to 6th.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#91
April 23, 2012, 08:11:24 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;532988Pipes, a measuring stick, and a slight frown.

If you have pipes, you must have drums and bugles as well.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Shawn Driscoll

#92
April 23, 2012, 08:11:31 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;532988Pipes, a measuring stick, and a slight frown.

Somebody gets it.

One Horse Town

#93
April 23, 2012, 08:18:18 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532991If you have pipes, you must have drums and bugles as well.

I do! :)

Hey, Brian. Good to see you.

Novastar

#94
April 23, 2012, 08:19:18 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;532984What makes an RPG session "serious"?
The ability to tell other people "They're doing it wrong." :p
Quote from: dragoner;776244Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn\'t what I play rpg\'s for.

gleichman

#95
April 23, 2012, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;532994I do! :)

Hey, Brian. Good to see you.

Hi. I hope you're doing well.

Not back for long, just responding some this HERO thread and a d100 thread (rare subjects for this place).
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Exploderwizard

#96
April 23, 2012, 08:40:52 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;532971My brother is addicted to WoW.  I'll watch some of his gaming.  But all it is is a chase camera (so all you ever see of your character is the back end) following you and nothing in the game attacks unless you attack it first.  Then the "enemy" runs up to face you and it's melee time (which means repeatedly pressing a button faster and faster than the other guy until someone falls dead).

Repeat this same process ad nauseum.

Not all true. Yes you do watch the rear end of the toon ( why I liked to play female toons back when I played).

Yes things do attack you first. Its called aggro radius. The weaker you are compared to the monster the larger the radius is. For a joke we took a level 2 gnome warrior outside Shattrath (level 60-70 zone) to see how long it would take to die. Spiders and wolves came running from the other side of the zone! She was dead in one bite. :D

Does it get boring and repetitive?  Yes. I have satisfied my curiosity with such games.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Novastar

#97
April 23, 2012, 08:47:20 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532987Not meaning to be snide, but don't you think it might be possible for you to do the same in a RPG if you but used a map and minis? And thus used your brain to play the game instead of wasting it on (incorrectly) visuallizing it.
Sure, I could use a map and mini's.

But I've found there are far more (and far more heated) arguements about "line-of-sight" and "cover" from using mini's, than "oh, that's not what I visualized..." in keeping it more freeform.

Oh, and nice dig at my intelligence, because I play differently than you. It adds class to an otherwise valid point in your post.
Quote from: dragoner;776244Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn\'t what I play rpg\'s for.

gleichman

#98
April 23, 2012, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Novastar;533005But I've found there are far more (and far more heated) arguements about "line-of-sight" and "cover" from using mini's, than "oh, that's not what I visualized..." in keeping it more freeform.

Line of sight and cover problems when using grid and minis? I see the uses of rules and a length of string are are beyond you.

Maybe you should play with people who understand the method for a while. It's amazing what you can learn.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

misterguignol

#99
April 23, 2012, 09:02:15 PM Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 09:09:27 PM by misterguignol
Quote from: gleichman;533006Line of sight and cover problems when using grid and minis? I see the uses of rules and a length of string are are beyond you.

Maybe you should play with people who understand the method for a while. It's amazing what you can learn.

Yes, the way you play a game of make-believe about comic book heroes (a genre invented for children) is very, very sophisticated.

Exploderwizard

#100
April 23, 2012, 09:05:48 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533006Line of sight and cover problems when using grid and minis? I see the uses of rules and a length of string are are beyond you.

Maybe you should play with people who understand the method for a while. It's amazing what you can learn.

Precise rules and meticulous measurements are awesome for a wargame. Not everyone needs all that to play an rpg. For some, the game is not just the rules. The game is all the cool shit that happens in the collective imaginations of those playing.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

One Horse Town

#101
April 23, 2012, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;533008Yes, the way you pay a make-believe game about comic book heroes (a genre invented for children) is very, very sophisticated.

I'd sort that grammar out if i were you.

I don't think that either Hero or GURPS is a make-believe game.

They actually exist!

John Morrow

#102
April 23, 2012, 09:08:33 PM
Quote from: Kuroth;532751These issues are the reason systems with this level of complexity for players should have a concise description of a tailored character creation interview process.  It would alleviate many of the concept conflicts that may occur in the final result.

The problem isn't so much one of concept conflicts but how the character plays during the game.  You can see this in action in threads where someone asks how others would build a power in Hero and different people can offer vastly different opinions on how to build it, each choice impacting how the power is played or works.
Robin Laws\' Game Styles Quiz Results:
Method Actor 100%, Butt-Kicker 75%, Tactician 42%, Storyteller 33%, Power Gamer 33%, Casual Gamer 33%, Specialist 17%

misterguignol

#103
April 23, 2012, 09:10:10 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;533012I'd sort that grammar out if i were you.

I don't think that either Hero or GURPS is a make-believe game.

They actually exist!

Fixed, Dad!

One Horse Town

#104
April 23, 2012, 09:13:51 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;533015Fixed, Dad!

D'oh! Your edit reason isn't grammatically correct.

I'm having conniptions here! ;)
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