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Why I think Gurps and Hero are having popularity problems

Started by danbuter, April 21, 2012, 09:02:02 PM

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1989

#60
April 23, 2012, 03:14:22 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532868Ranges are just given in feet or meters, I forget which because I never used it.

And I didn't say it wasn't an RPG, I said it was no longer a table top RPG. Without a grid and minis- there's no real significant (i.e. required) use for a table.

There's also very little game left IMO but most people here don't really require much in that line in any case.

Dude, this is like the opposite of the 3.x miniatures argument.

Inch = 6 feet = 2 metres.

As long as movement rates still exist (in either inches, feet, or metres), nothing has changed.

What are you getting on about?

As for tabletop, well, I always played at a big table, but never used minis/grids, despite there being plenty of room. Books, character sheets, dice, pens, chips, pizza, pop. That's what tables are for.

gleichman

#61
April 23, 2012, 03:21:42 PM
Quote from: 1989;532873As long as movement rates still exist (in either inches, feet, or metres), nothing has changed.

A great deal has changed. In fact, everything has.

Without a grid and minis- you're combats are a made up fantasy, inconsistent and without a doubt breaking the rules multiple times during play. Unless of course all you battles are one-dimensional, in which case they are boring.

I'd never play in such a campaign, watching re-runs of NCIS is a better use of my time.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Exploderwizard

#62
April 23, 2012, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532877A great deal has changed. In fact, everything has.

Without a grid and minis- you're combats are a made up fantasy, inconsistent and without a doubt breaking the rules multiple times during play. Unless of course all you battles are one-dimensional, in which case they are boring.

I'd never play in such a campaign, watching re-runs of NCIS is a better use of my time.

So you prefer board games. Thats cool.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

gleichman

#63
April 23, 2012, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;532879So you prefer board games. Thats cool.

I perfer a game that actual simulates the action consistently and in accordance to the rules. I don't like people making trash up out of thin air and breaking the rules.

The fact that a 'board' is required to meet those needs are completely secondary and not the primary driver. If I could do without the expense and room taken, then I would.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Exploderwizard

#64
April 23, 2012, 03:29:53 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532884I perfer a game that actual simulates the action consistently and in accordance to the rules. I don't like people making trash up out of thin air and breaking the rules.

The fact that a 'board' is required to meet those needs are completely secondary and not the primary driver. If I could do without the expense and room taken, then I would.

If 'the rules' are not needlessly complex for a roleplaying game to begin with then a board isn't required to play within said rules.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

gleichman

#65
April 23, 2012, 03:35:00 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;532887If 'the rules' are not needlessly complex for a roleplaying game to begin with then a board isn't required to play within said rules.

If the game takes into account range, that it needs a 'board'. If it takes into account line of sight, it's even more necessary.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Exploderwizard

#66
April 23, 2012, 03:36:52 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532892If the game takes into account range, that it needs a 'board'. If it takes into account line of sight, it's even more necessary.

I'm confused are you talking about about playing without a GM?  If so than I agree.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

1989

#67
April 23, 2012, 03:42:32 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532877A great deal has changed. In fact, everything has.

Without a grid and minis- you're combats are a made up fantasy, inconsistent and without a doubt breaking the rules multiple times during play. Unless of course all you battles are one-dimensional, in which case they are boring.

I'd never play in such a campaign, watching re-runs of NCIS is a better use of my time.

But you can still use grids and minis. 1 inch = 1 square = 2 metres, or whatever you like.

Marleycat

#68
April 23, 2012, 03:53:05 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532892If the game takes into account range, that it needs a 'board'. If it takes into account line of sight, it's even more necessary.

Sure I agree with that but older iterations of the game (DnD) didn't have that so the grid wasn't absolutely needed until you get to 3.5 and beyond.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

gleichman

#69
April 23, 2012, 04:00:03 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;532909Sure I agree with that but older iterations of the game (DnD) didn't have that so the grid wasn't absolutely needed until you get to 3.5 and beyond.

Too much of D&D are corridoor and doorway fights, but even then I have never seen any version of D&D played without a grid and minis (or some markers) in real life.

I had to go online to hear people make that the claim that they play without them. And if they do, I say they play poorly.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#70
April 23, 2012, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: 1989;532903But you can still use grids and minis. 1 inch = 1 square = 2 metres, or whatever you like.

Takes time and effort to convert (reminding me each time that the game is junk), far easier to stick with 5th edition where grids and minis were directly supported and area of effects well defined.

The market seems to agree, 5th was a major success, while 6th edition resulted in them basically closing shop.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#71
April 23, 2012, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;532896I'm confused are you talking about about playing without a GM?  If so than I agree.

I'm not interesting in the GM making up answers to range and line sight questions. So his present or lack means nothings.

I'm interested solely in objective answers to such questions.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

1989

#72
April 23, 2012, 04:35:42 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532917Takes time and effort to convert (reminding me each time that the game is junk), far easier to stick with 5th edition where grids and minis were directly supported and area of effects well defined.

The market seems to agree, 5th was a major success, while 6th edition resulted in them basically closing shop.

Range of Death Ray is 20 metres ... = 10 squares. Sounds easy enough to me.

Are you a metric hater?

Marleycat

#73
April 23, 2012, 04:39:05 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532913Too much of D&D are corridoor and doorway fights, but even then I have never seen any version of D&D played without a grid and minis (or some markers) in real life.

I had to go online to hear people make that the claim that they play without them. And if they do, I say they play poorly.

Each to there own. I've been in good Dnd and GURPS games with or without grids it's up to personal style.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

1989

#74
April 23, 2012, 04:46:00 PM
Quote from: gleichman;532913Too much of D&D are corridoor and doorway fights, but even then I have never seen any version of D&D played without a grid and minis (or some markers) in real life.

I had to go online to hear people make that the claim that they play without them. And if they do, I say they play poorly.

Get out! I've never seen a game of D&D played WITH grids.

Actually, I have . . . and I left the group. harharhar

Gleichman, you are the King of Grid.
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