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Why I think Gurps and Hero are having popularity problems

Started by danbuter, April 21, 2012, 09:02:02 PM

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Marleycat

#195
April 24, 2012, 04:54:57 PM Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 04:56:59 PM by Marleycat
Quote from: gleichman;533364I stand by my statement, you have no idea what a simulation style RPG is like if you think it lacks any human elements.

Never said that but if you think that's what I meant more power to you.  Basically you are being silly if you think an RPG with simulation elements lack any human elements given they are RUN by humans last time I checked.

I said I don't want to run a SIMULATION and call it a game. Though I do like simulationist elements in any game I run or play.  Meaning the world and the rules have to make real world physics and physical sense to me. At least as much as a game including elves and magic can be.:)
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

gleichman

#196
April 24, 2012, 04:59:18 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;533369Never said that but if you think that's what I meant more power to you.

Here's what you said:

QuoteWho wants a simulation anyway? The fun about TTRG's is the human factor.

It stongly implies that simulation and human factors do not conexist. Do you wish to withdraw you statement?
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#197
April 24, 2012, 05:00:03 PM
Quote from: Halloween Jack;533367Oh, how I wish that "Simulation" in RPG terminology hadn't been hijacked to mean "the rules are a physics engine for the setting."

It's the most meaningful possible definition IMO.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Rincewind1

#198
April 24, 2012, 05:07:48 PM
Stop feeding the wanker and we'll be done with him much sooner.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Marleycat

#199
April 24, 2012, 05:10:25 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533371Here's what you said:



It stongly implies that simulation and human factors do not conexist. Do you wish to withdraw you statement?

No I wish that I had defined the word better before I used it and the context I was trying to use it in.:)

As I meant to say I don't want a simulator. Simulation is in all rpg's I consider rpg's and all rpg's have a human element in them.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

gleichman

#200
April 24, 2012, 05:16:31 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;533375No I wish that I had defined the word better before I used it and the context I was trying to use it in.:)

As I meant to say I don't want a simulator. Simulation is in all rpg's I consider rpg's and all rpg's have a human element in them.

Then your original reponse to me makes little sense I'm afraid. I not taking about playing a simulator (such as Falcon 4.0)- I'm talking about simulation style table-top RPGs specifically and games in general.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

estar

#201
April 24, 2012, 05:19:24 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;533346Who wants a simulation anyway? The fun about TTRG's is the human factor. I could play a computer MMO for a simulation, less aggravation also.

It all a simulation but people different about what they are want to simulate. What interest many is either particular situations, like dungeon crawling, hunting things that man not meant to know, or interacting with other NPCs, VtM focuses on this a lot.

And the rules are never good enough, leaving the human referee to use his judgment to best plug in the gap. Note the rules can be helpful but ultimately it comes down to the referee making judgment calls.

estar

#202
April 24, 2012, 05:20:55 PM
Quote from: Halloween Jack;533356I simply don't need a game as complex as GURPS to do what I would do with GURPS. From some people's perspective I'm sure it's a simple game; from my perspective I find the different rules for Wrestling vs. Judo vs. Brawling vs. Karate in the skill lists, and the effects of the many advantages and disadvantages, to be quite cumbersome.

GURPS operates on several levels. At it's most detailed, Martial Arts, Tactical Shooting, etc. it is appealing to those who like the details because it is well designed, well written, and accurate.

1989

#203
April 24, 2012, 05:21:29 PM
I think that the backlash from 4e led to a general malaise in the RPG world. Companies have been dying left and right since 4e came out. The RPG world is not well. Maybe 5e can bring health and goodness and hope back into the RPG world.

There's an Arthurian analogy in there somewhere.

estar

#204
April 24, 2012, 05:23:16 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533353And if you think a smimulation based table top RPG lacks human factors- you've never played in one.

He not saying that. Reread what he said, he to focus on human element of RPGs rather than detailed mechanics. Many have this preference.

Rincewind1

#205
April 24, 2012, 05:24:40 PM
Quote from: estar;533377It all a simulation but people different about what they are want to simulate. What interest many is either particular situations, like dungeon crawling, hunting things that man not meant to know, or interacting with other NPCs, VtM focuses on this a lot.

And the rules are never good enough, leaving the human referee to use his judgment to best plug in the gap. Note the rules can be helpful but ultimately it comes down to the referee making judgment calls.

Damn bloody straight spot on, estar. But you are aware that you're  trying to argue in a case that requires a flamethrower and a priest, rather then common sense.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

estar

#206
April 24, 2012, 05:25:41 PM
Quote from: 1989;533379I think that the backlash from 4e led to a general malaise in the RPG world. Companies have been dying left and right since 4e came out. The RPG world is not well. Maybe 5e can bring health and goodness and hope back into the RPG world.

There's an Arthurian analogy in there somewhere.

What happens after 5e's release depends on several factors.

1) Does it work as a gateway to the tabletop hobby.
2) Does it have an open license and/or trademark for third party products.
3) How easy it will be to clone it with the d20 SRD.

gleichman

#207
April 24, 2012, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: estar;533377And the rules are never good enough, leaving the human referee to use his judgment to best plug in the gap. Note the rules can be helpful but ultimately it comes down to the referee making judgment calls.

It's far more likely that your view of the rules are at fault than the rules themselves although there are a lot of really bad games out there.

There are things not covered by the rules of course (Age of Heroes doesn't have a Lava table for example) but that's a bird of a different thread completely. For the rules that are there- there is no need for the judgement of a human referee. All you have to do is follow the rules.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#208
April 24, 2012, 05:28:50 PM Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 05:32:59 PM by gleichman
Quote from: estar;533380He not saying that. Reread what he said, he to focus on human element of RPGs rather than detailed mechanics. Many have this preference.

I claim that is a false choice, and that I focus every bit as much energy (indeed more so) in my style on human factors as those those who ignore the rules claim for theirs.

Indeed, I have more elements for humans to react to- i.e. an objective reality that they must dealt with for good or ill.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

One Horse Town

#209
April 24, 2012, 05:29:20 PM
Quote from: Rincewind1;533309Note to self: It ain't a troll if it's OHT's luvvie. It's 'agent provocataur'


You say tomato, i say tomayto.
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