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Why I think Gurps and Hero are having popularity problems

Started by danbuter, April 21, 2012, 09:02:02 PM

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gleichman

#180
April 24, 2012, 12:17:04 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;533252He sounds fine to me. Real classic old school but not a condensending jerk. Which is all good in my book. Also yeah "unenjoyment" is not fun, so no jokes from me.

I can be very concise, which a lot of people seem to take as condescending.

I'm also employed as a engineer for a Forture 50 company, but dislike bringing real-life online (or answering personal questions from jerks). But having had a 6 month dry spell during the 80s recession- understand well that unemployment can be hell and little to joke about.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Rincewind1

#181
April 24, 2012, 03:02:38 PM Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 03:15:40 PM by Rincewind1
Quote from: gleichman;533268I can be very concise, which a lot of people seem to take as condescending.

I see that gentleman is one of those who mistake "cunt" with "cunning".


Quote from: One Horse Town;533169Brian Gleichman. Blogger, writer, sometime agent provocataur.

Note to self: It ain't a troll if it's OHT's luvvie. It's 'agent provocataur'


Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;533106I'm guessing that RPGs that have "rules that make a game unplayable" don't get much coverage on forums.  Or do people fuss over those RPGs as well?

True, true. Of course the definition of unplayable game is very, very subjective - henceforth the endless wars about Linear Fighter/Quadratic Wizard etc. etc. :P. Again, I care little for mechanics - one of the best games I GMed was a CoC game for which I forgot to print out character sheets, and I used a 3 - step mechanic, inspired by WoD and Arkham Horror board game.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

James Gillen

#182
April 24, 2012, 03:17:43 PM
Quote from: flyingcircus;533218Thats because they need to let the Professionals of HERO LAB do the damn thing, they do good work and HERO LAB is far easier to use than anything else out there on the market today!

I'll have to check it out.  

JG
-My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass.
 -Christopher Hitchens
-Be very very careful with any argument that calls for hurting specific people right now in order to theoretically help abstract people later.
-Daztur

Rincewind1

#183
April 24, 2012, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: James Gillen;533315I'll have to check it out.  

JG

Their Army Builder is pretty much a must - have in Warhammer  gaming. If their RPG products are of similar quality, it's worth the money.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

RandallS

#184
April 24, 2012, 03:47:23 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533038The GM is as bound by the rules as the players. He can't handwave away blocking terrain or alter distances at his whim.

I only play in or run RPG campaigns where there are no rules, only guidelines for the GM. Every game I run falls into that category as my new play info sheet always states that the "rule books" for whatever system we are using are just "guidelines for the GM, not rules". Players who read my info sheet and object to that do not have to play. I strongly suspect you would opt not to play, thus saving you, me and the other players in the game much painful argument.
Randall
Rules Light RPGs: Home of Microlite20 and Other Rules-Lite Tabletop RPGs

estar

#185
April 24, 2012, 03:55:38 PM
Quote from: RandallS;533331I only play in or run RPG campaigns where there are no rules, only guidelines for the GM. Every game I run falls into that category as my new play info sheet always states that the "rule books" for whatever system we are using are just "guidelines for the GM, not rules". Players who read my info sheet and object to that do not have to play. I strongly suspect you would opt not to play, thus saving you, me and the other players in the game much painful argument.

From my point of view as a referee, the printed rules are useful as a means to remain consistent so the players can feel confident in planning what their character can do in a variety of situations. The rules are not a shackle that must be adhered to the Nth details.

it is impossible to make a perfect simulation. I.e. the only thing that simulate the universe perfectly is the universe itself. At some level the referee has to wing it and make a judgement call.

Marleycat

#186
April 24, 2012, 04:22:23 PM
Quote from: estar;533335From my point of view as a referee, the printed rules are useful as a means to remain consistent so the players can feel confident in planning what their character can do in a variety of situations. The rules are not a shackle that must be adhered to the Nth details.

it is impossible to make a perfect simulation. I.e. the only thing that simulate the universe perfectly is the universe itself. At some level the referee has to wing it and make a judgement call.

Who wants a simulation anyway? The fun about TTRG's is the human factor. I could play a computer MMO for a simulation, less aggravation also.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

gleichman

#187
April 24, 2012, 04:29:09 PM
Quote from: RandallS;533331I only play in or run RPG campaigns where there are no rules, only guidelines for the GM.

...

I strongly suspect you would opt not to play, thus saving you, me and the other players in the game much painful argument.

Oh I certainly would not play in your games.

But I will give you one thing, at least you admit what you're doing- So I can't say you're not at honest about your cheating.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#188
April 24, 2012, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;533346Who wants a simulation anyway? The fun about TTRG's is the human factor. I could play a computer MMO for a simulation, less aggravation also.

MMO's are not necessary simulations, far from it in most cases.

And if you think a smimulation based table top RPG lacks human factors- you've never played in one.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Halloween Jack

#189
April 24, 2012, 04:33:15 PM
I simply don't need a game as complex as GURPS to do what I would do with GURPS. From some people's perspective I'm sure it's a simple game; from my perspective I find the different rules for Wrestling vs. Judo vs. Brawling vs. Karate in the skill lists, and the effects of the many advantages and disadvantages, to be quite cumbersome.

Exploderwizard

#190
April 24, 2012, 04:41:24 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533351But I will give you one thing, at least you admit what you're doing- So I can't say you're not at honest about your cheating.

:rotfl:  Cheating. That's funny.

Let me guess, you think rpgs are a contest between GM and players with only the almighty RAW to decide who gains ultimate victory?

If so you are wargaming.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

Marleycat

#191
April 24, 2012, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533353MMO's are not necessary simulations, far from it in most cases.

And if you think a smimulation based table top RPG lacks human factors- you've never played in one.

I think you are misunderstanding my use of the word "simulation". I most definitely like simulationist elements in my TTRG's but when I am saying "simulation" overall I meant it like a realistic simulator like a flight simulator not that playstyle. What you are describing to me I consider more wargaming than roleplaying. Which is a valid playstyle just not something I do.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

gleichman

#192
April 24, 2012, 04:47:08 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;533360Let me guess, you think rpgs are a contest between GM and players with only the almighty RAW to decide who gains ultimate victory?

No. RPGs don't have have traditional winner and losers. Only good and bad players.


RPGs are a game. Games have rules. People who break or change the rules on the fly are cheating. It's that simple.

We wouldn't praise a football ref who moves the goal posts to allow or prevent a fieldgoal. In the same way, I don't praise GMs who make up ranges and line of sight judgements at their whim.

If the rules are there use them, or find a game that doesn't have them at all (easy to do these days).
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#193
April 24, 2012, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;533362I think you are misunderstanding my use of the word "simulation". I most definitely like simulationist elements in my TTRG's but when I am saying "simulation" overall I meant it like a realistic simulator like a flight simulator not that playstyle. What you are describing to me I consider more wargaming than roleplaying. Which is a valid playstyle just not something I do.

I stand by my statement, you have no idea what a simulation style RPG is like if you think it lacks any human elements.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Halloween Jack

#194
April 24, 2012, 04:53:54 PM
Oh, how I wish that "Simulation" in RPG terminology hadn't been hijacked to mean "the rules are a physics engine for the setting."
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