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Why I think Gurps and Hero are having popularity problems

Started by danbuter, April 21, 2012, 09:02:02 PM

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misterguignol

#105
April 23, 2012, 09:15:18 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;533018D'oh! Your edit reason isn't grammatically correct.

I'm having coniptions here! ;)

Looks like my work is done here; I aim for causing at least one seizure a day on the RPGsite.

One Horse Town

#106
April 23, 2012, 09:19:03 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;533019Looks like my work is done here; I aim for causing at least one seizure a day on the RPGsite.

Grr, argh, flargan, brr.

1989

#107
April 23, 2012, 09:31:59 PM Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 09:34:11 PM by 1989
Quote from: gleichman;532978No, but I don't prefer it.


Here's a example of why grids and minis are needed

The (P)layers are in position A
Tango A is 50 meters directly north of them
Tango B is 75 meters directly west of the tem
There's a 5 meter by 6 meter (runing east-west) building 25 meters to the northwest.
(A)llied NPC is 25 meters to the south and 5 meters to the west of (P)


(A) attempts to uses their telepathic Dominate power to subvert Tango B into attacking Tango A


Questions:
What's the Range between (A) and Tango B
What's the range between Tango B and Tango A?
Does the building block line of sight between Tango B and Tango A?
Does the building block line of sight between (A) and Tango B?

Yes, you can figure that out by basic Geometry- have fun with the squaring and square roots. meanwhile A grid and mini (or well scaled drawing) will reveal the answers in a glance. And have fun placing the building in relation to the newly revealed line of fire.

Now, mulitple the number of figures on both sides by a factor of ten or more. I run battles with 20 to 60 combatants typically- and at times up to 300 figures on the board. Muliple the terrain features by a factor of ten as well. And I want correct and consistent answers to any question of range, position, facing, and line of sight *immediately* to keep the battle flowing.

This isn't your D&D hallway fight with a 10' front followed by another hallway fight with a 10' fight. I outgrewth those 36 years ago.

You OUTGREW them! That's rich, man.

Please tell me this is a joke.

gleichman

#108
April 23, 2012, 09:33:11 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;533011The game is all the cool shit that happens in the collective imaginations of those playing.

Anyone can imagine stuff, it's only interesting if it's done correctly by the rules. Otherwise it's just an excercise in freely getting what you want. The mark of a child's imagination, not an adult's.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Rincewind1

#109
April 23, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
This thread has been most enlightening.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

gleichman

#110
April 23, 2012, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: 1989;533023You OUTGREW them! That's rich, man.

Please tell me this is a joke.

I would hope that have more than three decades of doing something, I would grown beyond where I started.

But if you're still doing that same 10' hallway battle, don't let me get in your way. Heck, I'll even agree that's there's no need for a map and minis for it.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

misterguignol

#111
April 23, 2012, 09:39:13 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533024Anyone can imagine stuff, it's only interesting if it's done correctly by the rules. Otherwise it's just an excercise in freely getting what you want. The mark of a child's imagination, not an adult's.

How does someone imagine incorrectly?

gleichman

#112
April 23, 2012, 09:40:17 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;533008Yes, the way you play a game of make-believe about comic book heroes (a genre invented for children) is very, very sophisticated.

I don't playing a game by the rules can be called sophisticated. It's generally called playing a game by the rules. And not doing so is called cheating.

If you don't want grids and minis- play a game that doesn't have ranges and line of sight. They exist.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

gleichman

#113
April 23, 2012, 09:41:21 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;533028How does someone imagine incorrectly?

When what they've imagined breaks the rules of the game they are playing, i.e. when they don't apply the correct range modifiers and/or fail to account for blocking terrain when the rules require otherwise.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

misterguignol

#114
April 23, 2012, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533029If you don't want grids and minis- play a game that doesn't have ranges and line of sight. They exist.

Oh, like Hero, you mean? ;)

gleichman

#115
April 23, 2012, 09:42:19 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;533032Oh, like Hero, you mean? ;)

Sadly for you, it still has both in 6th edition. It just offers little support for using them.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

misterguignol

#116
April 23, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533031When what they've imagined breaks the rules of the game they are playing, i.e. when they don't apply the correct range modifiers and/or fail to account for blocking terrain when the rules require otherwise.

Isn't that what the GM is for?  You don't need a grid or minis for that.  All you need is a GM to say, "There is blocking terrain in your way."

misterguignol

#117
April 23, 2012, 09:43:05 PM
Quote from: gleichman;533033Sadly for you, it still has both in 6th edition. It just offers little support for using them.

I'll cope!  I am a man of great emotional resilience.

gleichman

#118
April 23, 2012, 09:44:23 PM
Quote from: misterguignol;533034Isn't that what the GM is for?  You don't need a grid or minis for that.  All you need is a GM to say, "There is blocking terrain in your way."

The GM is as bound by the rules as the players. He can't handwave away blocking terrain or alter distances at his whim.

Any GM willing to do so is not worthy of the title and responsiblity granted him.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Rincewind1

#119
April 23, 2012, 09:45:27 PM
This thread feels like an episode of Twilight Zone, where RPG.site and The Forge collided, and merged into one beast.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed
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