Why GURPS is a joke

Koltar · April 05, 2007, 12:27:27 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityMe too.

Roll-over addicts -eh?

I've had new players with the same problem. They hear that they got to roll under and their reaction has been : "Shit!! I Need different dice!! These are my lucky always-rolls-high dice."

The first few dice rolls I go easy on them.

- E.W.C.

Gunslinger · April 05, 2007, 12:53:07 PM

I think you could say the problem with GURPS is the problem with any generic roleplaying system. They expand out to different genres and then consolidate those aspects in later editions. A Palladium core system would look just as bungled if they ever made one. Because of the OGL, D20 is impossible to consolidate. From what I've read of Hero System, adjusting the system to a specific genre is one of the biggest hurdles.

Pierce Inverarity · April 05, 2007, 12:59:43 PM

Quote from: KoltarRoll-over addicts -eh?

I've had new players with the same problem. They hear that they got to roll under and their reaction has been : "Shit!! I Need different dice!! These are my lucky always-rolls-high dice."

The first few dice rolls I go easy on them.

- E.W.C.

I once proved conclusively that roll-under is ontologically ass backwards. For, in effect, it is not you who's trying to beat the game world environment by rolling over its obstacleness, using only your wit and skillz as modifiers. But, au contraire, it is your skillz that are the obstacle (target number), and it is the game world that tries to beat them.

In Soviet Game System, game world rolls over YOU.

Or so I reasoned. That was a propos some playtest file for T5, though. I've no idea how relevant that is for, uhm, the thread in hand.

Erstwhile · April 05, 2007, 01:22:16 PM

Quote from: Casey777Which is why I buy GURPS books for info and play using other games. BESM 2e with bits from other Tri-Stat games (margin of success, damage multipliers, etc.) accomplishes much of the same feel I want out of GURPS with a much smaller skill and ad/disad list.

While TriStat was never my favourite system, one of the things they did in TriStat Dx was make it explicit that the costs of skills were dependent, not on how "difficult" they were to learn, but rather on the value the skill had in a particular genre of game.

Still not a perfect system, of course, because games can "shift genres", but I thought it was an interesting twist.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...

HinterWelt · April 05, 2007, 01:29:10 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityI once proved conclusively that roll-under is ontologically ass backwards. For, in effect, it is not you who's trying to beat the game world environment by rolling over its obstacleness, using only your wit and skillz as modifiers. But, au contraire, it is your skillz that are the obstacle (target number), and it is the game world that tries to beat them.

In Soviet Game System, game world rolls over YOU.

Or so I reasoned. That was a propos some playtest file for T5, though. I've no idea how relevant that is for, uhm, the thread in hand.

Hmm, that is not how I look at it though. I mean, yes, I agree with the roll over mechanic and it is appropriate in the situation you describe of defeating external elements. However, in a roll under, to me, it means you are attempting to perform within your abilities and thus roll with in your maximum chance for success.

Personally, I do not see it as an "either-or" but more as all inclusive tool to be used where appropriate.

Of course, that is just my take.

Bill

C.W.Richeson · April 05, 2007, 01:32:31 PM

Quote from: ErstwhileStill not a perfect system, of course, because games can "shift genres", but I thought it was an interesting twist.

I did too until I started running Tri-Stat, and then I considered it a bit headache. I just gave skills a flat cost and told my players not to buy a skill they don't intend to regularly roll in the game.

joewolz · April 05, 2007, 01:54:25 PM

Quote from: C.W.RichesonI did too until I started running Tri-Stat, and then I considered it a bit headache. I just gave skills a flat cost and told my players not to buy a skill they don't intend to regularly roll in the game.

That's a fix that would make really like that system. I can't believe I didn't think of that.

Koltar · April 05, 2007, 02:57:07 PM

Quote from: SettembriniThe arrival of Koltar, with his staggering affection for GURPS triggered this thread.

Staggering affection? Damn I knew I was good in bed - but only one really had trouble walking afterwards. (She was smiling tho.)

Affection for GURPS?

An enthisiastic YES!! - but classic TRAVELLER was my first love. The FASA version of STAR TREK:RPG was a long term friendly mistress. D&D was always somebody else's girl....and she never appealed to me much.

- E.W.C.

Koltar · April 05, 2007, 03:06:42 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityBut now, as my Traveller fetish has suddenly reasserted itself and I find myself looking at GT Far Trader, some of those templates really do appeal. The Free Trader template would give me a guy who on one hand is a charismatic, gregarious, daring, intuitive J-o-T, and who on the other hand has baroque tastes (alcohol, gambling), dresses extravagantly, is overweight and greedy with a bad rep.

In other words, a guy who's just like this shifty merchant whom Kirk & Co. run into periodically in ST. In yet other words, a really cool dude I'd play in a heartbeat. I just need to buy him baldness, a fez and a couple of tasteless rings to wear (hopefully those are disads), and I'm good to go.

Pierce,
You really should post a version of that over in the current STAR TREK thread. Harcourt Fenton Mudd is very possible with the GURPS system. So is Cyrano Jones.

- Ed C.

Tommy Brownell · April 05, 2007, 03:15:40 PM

Quote from: Thanatos02What are you playing anyhow, Set? I mean, when you're not ripping on games other peeps play?

Hm.

Kinda funny that we don't have an answer to that question yet.

I'm not a big GURPS fan...not my thing...but to call it a joke is beyond silly. The Munchkin RPG? That's a joke. Hackmaster? Sure...one could argue that's a joke. GURPS? Not so much a joke.

Pierce Inverarity · April 05, 2007, 03:24:11 PM

Quote from: KoltarPierce,
You really should post a version of that over in the current STAR TREK thread. Harcourt Fenton Mudd is very possible with the GURPS system. So is Cyrano Jones.

- Ed C.

Those were the guys I'm thinking of! Good to have a live Trek encyclopedia aboard.

Koltar · April 05, 2007, 03:30:12 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityThose were the guys I'm thinking of! Good to have a live Trek encyclopedia aboard.

In GURPS terms I might have Eidetic Memory - it just isn't always that reliable. Hell at times I remember some movies in perfect sequence - movies I don't even like. That kind of memory is not always a good thing.

- Ed C.

RedFox · April 05, 2007, 03:49:02 PM

Alright, GURPS is a joke.

But is it funny "ha ha" or is it funny "uh oh"?

Koltar · April 05, 2007, 04:03:56 PM

Redfox,
See my post at #25 :
http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=91982&postcount=25

Like I said , many of us LIKE the joke. Its not our fault if Settembrini doesn't get it.

For some of us its a Monty Python style joke, others its a George Carlin thing, still others are playing the joke in an Eddie Izzard fashion, and some like to have Whoppi Goldberg or Sarah Silverman tell the joke or maybe Hunter S. Thompson.

- Ed C.

Lord Svengali · April 05, 2007, 04:22:02 PM

Roll-over or roll-under...it all depends on the game.

The biggest problem that I have with most games based upon roll-over is that it's not necessarily about your skill, but about how many buffs you can bring to bear to overcome the obstacle. After all, there aren't many things that can stand up to a Vorpal Smiting Chainsword of Kewl-Doodness unless the opponent is protected by an Impervium Jockstrap of Buff Negation...at which point you simply whip out your Ultra-kewl Hyperblaster of Infinite Kryptonian Plasma Megadestruction, which is naturally powered by a Zero-Point Chargepack of Anti-Buff Negation. Of course, your opponent just might have...

...and so it goes.